Prius loser I drove behind this morning
Steve Sobol
License plate: GR88MPG.
Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
simply obnoxious.
--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA
sjs...@JustThe.net
Don Piven
> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>
> License plate: GR88MPG.
He probably took the plate off his Hummer. (GR8 8MPG)
Rich Piehl
> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>
> License plate: GR88MPG.
>
> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
> simply obnoxious.
>
>
As I've mentioned before a study was done of Prius owners a couple of
years ago. Turns out a majority of people didn't buy them for the
environmental reasons. Most people buy them because they like what it
says about them - an ego stroke.
That license plate fits the bill, too.
--
"One thing I've learned after all this road
Is that you don't know as much as you thought you know."
--The Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band
The Real Bev
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>>
>> License plate: GR88MPG.
I look with contempt on anybody who spends extra money for a cutesy license
plate, certain relatives excepted.
>> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
>> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
>> simply obnoxious.
>
> As I've mentioned before a study was done of Prius owners a couple of
> years ago. Turns out a majority of people didn't buy them for the
> environmental reasons. Most people buy them because they like what it
> says about them - an ego stroke.
That, and the fact that a certain number of them were allowed to use the
carpool lane no matter how few people were in the car (1 minimum, o course).
> That license plate fits the bill, too.
A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
--
Cheers, Bev
---------------------------------
aibohphobia - fear of palindromes
Steve Sobol
@gmail.com says...
> > That license plate fits the bill, too.
>
> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
McNalley
That smugness isn't limited to them. You can always tell by the types
who drive exactly the speed limit or slower, typically in the left
lane. The greatest offender: Toyota Camry. The Prius is just the
same Camry type saying "I'm a rich liberal and I save the environment
because I'm better than you". Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I
think the worst thing is rich bastards trying to be self-righteous or
pretending to be humble. Just goes to show high school never ends and
nobody really grows up.
John Lansford
>In article <hb3f53$qau$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, bashley101
>@gmail.com says...
>
>> > That license plate fits the bill, too.
>>
>> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>
>That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
Except, unless he had been driving a very inefficient vehicle before
he bought the Prius, he'll never recoup the money he spent to buy it
with the savings in fuel. Assuming a normal 12,000 annual mileage
driven, a 15mpg vehicle before the Prius, and $3/gallon gas, the
savings over 4 years comes to just $4,100.
He could have bought any number of fuel efficient vehicles for less
money than the Prius and helped reduce environmental damage even more,
especially when you consider making a Prius requires a lot of
hazardous chemicals and the batteries have to be replaced eventually.
The idea of the Prius is certainly worth developing further, but the
relatively high price and questionable environmental savings don't
seem to me to make the car as "green" as the PR guys want you to
believe.
John Lansford, PE
--
John's Shop of Wood
http://wood.jlansford.net/
Larry Harvilla
> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>
> License plate: GR88MPG.
>
> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
> simply obnoxious.
Spotted here in Michigan before: a Prius with a University of Michigan
fundraising plate (
http://services.sos.state.mi.us/plates/papstep2.asp?plateType=UNIVERSITY&plateID=uofm
), with a plate number of "PG 50." IOW, they were using the "block M"
logo of U-M to make a statement about their gas mileage: "MPG 50."
Now if only I could obtain Michigan State plates and use their block S
logo with plate numbers like "T8SUX," "T8SUKS," or "T8SUXX" (all
variants on State sucks). ;-)
--
Larry Harvilla
e-mail: larry AT phatpage DOT org
http://www.phatpage.org/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larrysphatpage
Jonathan L
<rpiehl5REMOVETHIS...@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
> > This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>
> > License plate: GR88MPG.
>
> > Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
> > in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
> > simply obnoxious.
>
> As I've mentioned before a study was done of Prius owners a couple of
> years ago. Turns out a majority of people didn't buy them for the
> environmental reasons. Most people buy them because they like what it
> says about them - an ego stroke.
Prius drivers replaced Jetta drivers in my book as the worst assholes
on the road about 4 years ago. This is despite the fact that almost
every close call I've had on a road has been due to a Jetta driver in
front of me doing something stupid.
I guess that being behind a driver merging onto a freeway at 39 MPH,
who gives me the finger because wanting to merge into 70 MPH traffic
at least at 50 MPH is apparently a great sin, outweighs almost having
been killed by a driver crossing three lanes and an exit gore at the
last second to make their exit.
-Jonathan
Scott M. Kozel
>
> bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>
>> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>
> That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
warrantied 100,000 mile point.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
John A. Weeks III
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> >
> > bashley101 @gmail.com says...
> >
> >> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
> >
> > That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>
> I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
> car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
> costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
> warrantied 100,000 mile point.
Scott -- I am curious what you used as the 30 MPG conventional
car, and some of the numbers that you started with for the
costs (of the cars and of the gasoline). I ran these numbers
a while back, and could not find a way to justify a Prius.
My baseline was my $15,000 HHR that gets 32 MPG highway, 29
MPG city.
I am not anti-Prius, rather, I think it is an amazing vehicle.
I do think, perhaps incorrectly, that a hybrid system is still
not cost effective, and is something that you buy to make a
statement about going green rather than a way to save money.
A vehicle type that I am excited about are the CNG vehicles.
Honda makes the Civic GX, and Toyota has a CNG hybrid version
of the Camry in the works. CNG is very clean, engines last
far longer, and they are much cleaner than gasoline cars.
They don't have the batter issues, such has the cost, weight,
replacement price, and environmental factors of the battery.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III � � � � � 612-720-2854 � � � � � �jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications � � � � � � � � � � � � http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Gary V
> Steve Sobol wrote:
> > This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>
> > License plate: GR88MPG.
>
> > Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
> > in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
> > simply obnoxious.
>
> Spotted here in Michigan before: a Prius with a University of Michigan
> ), with a plate number of "PG 50." IOW, they were using the "block M"
> logo of U-M to make a statement about their gas mileage: "MPG 50."
What else would you expect from the People's Republic of Ann Arbor?
> Now if only I could obtain Michigan State plates and use their block S
> logo with plate numbers like "T8SUX," "T8SUKS," or "T8SUXX" (all
> variants on State sucks). ;-)
Well there's always the apocraphal M-ORON and S-TUPID plates. Of
course that means giving some money to your hated school in order to
ridicule them.
Oscar Voss
news:8c2bd5hfk4vcaa5co...@4ax.com...
I don't disagree with that for the average driver. But the Prius can make
more sense for people who put a lot of mileage on their cars. Mine, for
example, has over 35,000 miles on it, in its first 19 months (that included
a cross-country trip last summer -- when gas was running over $4/gal. -- as
well as other extended trips out of town). Some Southern California drivers
with really long commutes can probably top that just with their usual daily
driving.
There are of course other reasons besides fuel efficiency and cost
effectiveness. In my case, what helped seal the deal was that the Prius was
one of the few fuel-efficient vehicles you could get with leather seats (at
during the 2008 model year).
--
Oscar Voss - oscar...@comcast.net - Arlington VA
my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://home.comcast.net/~oscar.voss/
Hawaii Highways: http://www.hawaiihighways.com/
McNalley
You reminded me. I forgot the Jetta types. They gave me hell here,
too. The car you CHOOSE to drive (aside from something given to you)
typically reflects your personality overall. How often do you see a
Camry or late model minivan hauling ass at 15 over? How often have
you seen a BMW crawling? How many times has a large white pick up
truck pulled out in front of you, driven 20 under then sped up to 75
when you tried to pass? I know it's not one-size-fits-all, but there
is definitely a pattern. If I had the car of my choice right now
(aside from luxury car) I would prolly by a Scion.
Larry G
> In article <hb4bu7$ej...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koze...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
> > > bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>
> > >> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>
> > > That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>
> > I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
> > car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
> > costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
> > warrantied 100,000 mile point.
>
> Scott -- I am curious what you used as the 30 MPG conventional
> car, and some of the numbers that you started with for the
> costs (of the cars and of the gasoline). I ran these numbers
> a while back, and could not find a way to justify a Prius.
> My baseline was my $15,000 HHR that gets 32 MPG highway, 29
> MPG city.
>
> I am not anti-Prius, rather, I think it is an amazing vehicle.
> I do think, perhaps incorrectly, that a hybrid system is still
> not cost effective, and is something that you buy to make a
> statement about going green rather than a way to save money.
>
> A vehicle type that I am excited about are the CNG vehicles.
> Honda makes the Civic GX, and Toyota has a CNG hybrid version
> of the Camry in the works. CNG is very clean, engines last
> far longer, and they are much cleaner than gasoline cars.
> They don't have the batter issues, such has the cost, weight,
> replacement price, and environmental factors of the battery.
Toyota is also working on a CNG Hybrid... IIRC
note that Toyota currently make a wide variety of other CNG-powered
vehicles including all those fork-lifts you see in Home Depot.
but yes.. I agree especially with the new methods recently discovered
to get at shale natural gas that is expected to boost our supplies
substantially.
don't forget propane either - it's twice as energy dense as CNG and
only about 14% less than gasoline. Also - it is relatively easy to
configure an engine to use both conventional fuels and the gas fuels.
You could, in theory have a hybrid that could be fueled with CNG or
gasoline.
the thing about the hybrids is that they're going to get better and
cheaper and this is going to fundamentally change the way we fund
transportation.
Larry G
rich liberal? Okay.. I'm gonna ask .... what kind of driver do you
think most folks who think of themselves as self reliant (conservative
ethic) are?
Cameron Kaiser
>Prius drivers replaced Jetta drivers in my book as the worst assholes
>on the road about 4 years ago. This is despite the fact that almost
>every close call I've had on a road has been due to a Jetta driver in
>front of me doing something stupid.
A friend of mine has a theory about that with Corollas, but that's the
Bay Area, so I imagine this could be different demographics at work.
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
Computer Workshops: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/
Floodgap Systems: http://www.floodgap.com/
personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
Cameron Kaiser
>I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
>car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
>costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
>warrantied 100,000 mile point.
I get 28-30mpg in my Honda Civic Si 4D. I can't justify a hybrid, even with
the amount of driving I do, and the Si is a lot more fun to drive than a
Prius.
H.B. Elkins
>That smugness isn't limited to them. You can always tell by the types
>who drive exactly the speed limit or slower, typically in the left
>lane. The greatest offender: Toyota Camry. The Prius is just the
>same Camry type saying "I'm a rich liberal and I save the environment
>because I'm better than you". Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I
>think the worst thing is rich bastards trying to be self-righteous or
>pretending to be humble. Just goes to show high school never ends and
>nobody really grows up.
Gotta watch those stereotypes. A friend of mine has a Prius with the
McCain-Palin sticker still prominently displayed on the rear bumper. This friend
is also a fellow roadgeek who posts here.
--
To reply by e-mail, remove the "restrictor plate"
H.B. Elkins
>That smugness isn't limited to them. You can always tell by the types
>who drive exactly the speed limit or slower, typically in the left
>lane. The greatest offender: Toyota Camry. The Prius is just the
>same Camry type saying "I'm a rich liberal and I save the environment
>because I'm better than you". Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I
>think the worst thing is rich bastards trying to be self-righteous or
>pretending to be humble. Just goes to show high school never ends and
>nobody really grows up.
I forgot to mention that there is another roadgeek, who is one of the most
conservative among the posters here, who drives a Prius.
Brian Reynolds
"Larry Harvilla" wrote
>
> Spotted here in Michigan before: a Prius with a University of Michigan
> fundraising plate (
> http://services.sos.state.mi.us/plates/papstep2.asp?plateType=UNIVERSITY&plateID=uofm )
> , with a plate number of "PG 50." IOW, they were using the "block M" logo
> of U-M to make a statement about their gas mileage: "MPG 50."
>
> Now if only I could obtain Michigan State plates and use their block S
> logo with plate numbers like "T8SUX," "T8SUKS," or "T8SUXX" (all variants
> on State sucks). ;-)
>
Please do. The folks in East Lansing will smile and say "Thank you for your
support."
It must really suck to be a Rodriguez fan right now.
The icon of football losing to the lowly Cow College down the road. Twice.
In a row.
I feel your pain.
--
Brian Reynolds
Hastings Michigan
H.B. Elkins
>If I had the car of my choice right now
>(aside from luxury car) I would prolly by a Scion.
You *do* know who the most infamous Scion driver in MTR is, don't you?
Oscar Voss
news:hb4hm...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Gotta watch those stereotypes. A friend of mine has a Prius with the
> McCain-Palin sticker still prominently displayed on the rear bumper. This
> friend
> is also a fellow roadgeek who posts here.
Yeah. My Prius has a McCain (no Palin) bumper sticker on it, as well as
stickers for two current Republican candidates, in part to make it clear not
everybody around here fits the standard Arlington liberal Prius-driver
stereotype. (Arlington County is Virginia's bluest county, not counting the
independent cities.)
Larry Sheldon
> Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>>
>> bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>>
>>> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>>
>> That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>
> I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
> car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
> costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
> warrantied 100,000 mile point.
Batteries don't need to be recharged? Or is the assumption that
somebody else will pay for that and it therefore doesn't count?
--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information:
http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Larry Sheldon
> "H.B. Elkins" <hbel...@mis.net.restrictorplate> wrote in message
> news:hb4hm...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>> Gotta watch those stereotypes. A friend of mine has a Prius with the
>> McCain-Palin sticker still prominently displayed on the rear bumper.
>> This friend
>> is also a fellow roadgeek who posts here.
>
> Yeah. My Prius has a McCain (no Palin) bumper sticker on it, as well as
> stickers for two current Republican candidates, in part to make it clear
> not everybody around here fits the standard Arlington liberal
> Prius-driver stereotype. (Arlington County is Virginia's bluest county,
> not counting the independent cities.)
How exactly does being a RINO make any difference?
>
> --
> Oscar Voss - oscar...@comcast.net - Arlington VA
>
> my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://home.comcast.net/~oscar.voss/
> Hawaii Highways: http://www.hawaiihighways.com/
H.B. Elkins
>Yeah. My Prius has a McCain (no Palin) bumper sticker on it
My bad, I thought it had both names.
>as well as
>stickers for two current Republican candidates, in part to make it clear not
>everybody around here fits the standard Arlington liberal Prius-driver
>stereotype. (Arlington County is Virginia's bluest county, not counting the
>independent cities.)
I'm sure McDonald is one of them. During my recent trip through Virginia, I saw
lots of yard signs supporting him but very few for Deeds.
Oscar Voss
news:7jm2h9F...@mid.individual.net...
> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>> Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>>>
>>> That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>>
>> I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional car,
>> and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current costs
>> for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the warrantied
>> 100,000 mile point.
>
> Batteries don't need to be recharged? Or is the assumption that somebody
> else will pay for that and it therefore doesn't count?
The Prius is not a plug-in hybrid (for now), so its batteries are recharged
only by the gas engine, and the costs of recharging are reflected in its
overall ~50mpg gas consumption.
Larry Sheldon
>> Batteries don't need to be recharged? Or is the assumption that
>> somebody else will pay for that and it therefore doesn't count?
>
> The Prius is not a plug-in hybrid (for now), so its batteries are
> recharged only by the gas engine, and the costs of recharging are
> reflected in its overall ~50mpg gas consumption.
Ahh. OK. My misunderstanding.
Thanks.
Scott M. Kozel
> > car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
> > costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
> > warrantied 100,000 mile point.
>
> Scott -- I am curious what you used as the 30 MPG conventional
> car, and some of the numbers that you started with for the
> costs (of the cars and of the gasoline). I ran these numbers
> a while back, and could not find a way to justify a Prius.
> My baseline was my $15,000 HHR that gets 32 MPG highway, 29
> MPG city.
I didn't get all that detailed, just figured a 30 mpg conventional
Toyota and a 50 mpg Toyota Prius, using current costs for fuel, and
current cost for battery replacement at the warranteed 100,000 mile
point. You could apply standard inflation to those and get about the
same result. Some people report the battery lasting much longer, such
as over 150,000 miles, and that would give clear advantage to the
Prius, but you could not predict that in advance. Dramatic rises in
fuel prices would also give clear advantage to the Prius, but you
could not predict that in advance.
On the other hand, gasoline motor technology has decades of experience
behind it, while the coupling of a small gasoline motor with an
electric engine is something new, so the latter could possibly require
more lifecycle repair costs than the former.
Hybrid cars are a very interesting concept, but I don't see any
financial justification for my buying one, and even from an
environmental and energy standpoint a 30 mpg car is very efficient.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> I don't disagree with that for the average driver. But the Prius can make
> more sense for people who put a lot of mileage on their cars. Mine, for
> example, has over 35,000 miles on it, in its first 19 months (that included
> a cross-country trip last summer -- when gas was running over $4/gal. -- as
> well as other extended trips out of town). Some Southern California drivers
> with really long commutes can probably top that just with their usual daily
> driving.
How does high mileage reduce costs ... the battery's life in general
is measured in miles, and is warranteed for 100,000 miles.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> That smugness isn't limited to them. You can always tell by the types
> who drive exactly the speed limit or slower, typically in the left
> lane. The greatest offender: Toyota Camry.
Perhaps your observations might result from the fact that Camry's are
one of the most popular car models out there? That is, with so many
of them, you're bound to see a lousy driver sooner or later.
> The Prius is just the
> same Camry type saying "I'm a rich liberal and I save the environment
> because I'm better than you". Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I
> think the worst thing is rich bastards trying to be self-righteous or
> pretending to be humble. Just goes to show high school never ends and
> nobody really grows up.
Your description could be equally applied to people who drive big fat
heavy pick-ups or SUVs without any use of the utility function.
Interestingly, someone was justified owning a big pickup because they
take delivery of things from time to time for their home (not
regularly for a business). Say an appliance or bulk item delivery
cost $50. You'd need quite a few deliveries to justify the extra
purchase and operating expense of a fat heavy vehicle.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> Except, unless he had been driving a very inefficient vehicle before
> he bought the Prius, he'll never recoup the money he spent to buy it
> with the savings in fuel. Assuming a normal 12,000 annual mileage
> driven, a 15mpg vehicle before the Prius, and $3/gallon gas, the
> savings over 4 years comes to just $4,100.
True. It's like people who bought PCs for their home in the early
days. In 1983 a fully loaded IBM XT could be $2,500 or more--and that
would be much more in today's dollars. Yet the machine couldn't do
very much compared to today.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
> License plate: GR88MPG.
> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
> simply obnoxious.
Geez, who cares?
I never could get into the modern day shorthand of texting, such as
using 8 for 'ate' sounds or '4 U' for 'for you', etc. Until you
explained it, I would not have even realized it was a custom license
plate, just random characters.
I don't get the fascination of teens with texting when they could
simply _talk_ to the person.
Sadly, teens _texting_ while driving is a big safety problem.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> On the other hand, gasoline motor technology has decades of experience
> behind it, while the coupling of a small gasoline motor with an
> electric engine is something new, so the latter could possibly require
> more lifecycle repair costs than the former.
Gas electric technology has been around for nearly a century. It
wasn't as efficient for automobiles as the conventional system.
Some years ago small diesels were touted as the replacement. Back
then diesel fuel was cheaper, unlike now.
IMHO, true electric cars will require all the following to be cost-
effective:
--Gasoline goes up in price (certainly possible but who knows)
--Electricity goes down in price (very unlikely, it will probably
increase).
--Battery technology makes a big leap forward (possible)
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> How does high mileage reduce costs ... the battery's life in general
> is measured in miles, and is warranteed for 100,000 miles.
For these kinds of comparisons, certain driving situations use far
more fuel than other situations. Motorists in such situations will
get a greater benefit, especially if the hybrid technology works well
in those situations.
For example, if the hybrid's gas engine doesn't run in slow or idling
traffic it will be a big help compared to a conventional car that
idles.
In contrast, I suspect that in open-road easy highway driving the
hybrids won't do as well.
Guy Olsen
wrote:
And I'm a moderate Democrat who regularly drives his 2001 Saab 9-5
Aero wagon and 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid sedan (both purchased used with
manual trannies) at 10-20 mph over.
Guy Olsen
NJ
Guy Olsen
>
> And I'm a moderate Democrat who regularly drives his 2001 Saab 9-5
> Aero wagon and 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid sedan (both purchased used with
> manual trannies) at 10-20 mph over.
Actually more like 5-15.
> Guy Olsen
> NJ
Rich Piehl
> On Oct 13, 10:33 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>>
>> License plate: GR88MPG.
>>
>> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
>> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
>> simply obnoxious.
>>
>> Steve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA
>> sjso...@JustThe.net
>
> who drive exactly the speed limit or slower, typically in the left
> lane. The greatest offender: Toyota Camry. The Prius is just the
> same Camry type saying "I'm a rich liberal and I save the environment
> because I'm better than you". Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I
> think the worst thing is rich bastards trying to be self-righteous or
> pretending to be humble. Just goes to show high school never ends and
> nobody really grows up.
I guess I'm an exception to that stereotype.
I drove a Camry for 9 years. I am far from rich and many on the MTR
forum will confirm I am CERTAINLY not liberal.
--
"One thing I've learned after all this road
Is that you don't know as much as you thought you know."
--The Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band
Otto Yamamoto
> Yeah. My Prius has a McCain (no Palin) bumper sticker on it, as well as
> stickers for two current Republican candidates, in part to make it clear
> not everybody around here fits the standard Arlington liberal
> Prius-driver stereotype. (Arlington County is Virginia's bluest county,
> not counting the independent cities.)
Now, see, I wouldn't be caught dead driving a Prius. That would damage my
image irreparably. I could never live down the shame of being mistaken
for a 'liberal', a hippie or a Mac user.
--
'Smoking is Healthier than Fascism'
Oscar Voss
news:45f0c80c-a844-4aab...@k33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> In contrast, I suspect that in open-road easy highway
> driving the hybrids won't do as well.
Compared to a non-hybrid with a similarly underpowered gas engine, the
hybrid performs about the same. But the hybrid drive's electic boost to the
little putt-putt gas engine makes it more tolerable for non-highway driving,
so you can get by with a less powerful gas engine than if you didn't have
the hybrid drive.
Oscar Voss
news:3f084b48-4748-428f...@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> How does high mileage reduce costs ... the battery's life
> in general is measured in miles, and is warranteed for
> 100,000 miles.
It spreads depreciation costs for other vehicle components -- including the
rest of the hybrid drive, which accounts for part of the premium price you
pay for a Prius over its non-hybrid competitors -- over more miles.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> How does high mileage reduce costs ... the battery's life
>> in general is measured in miles, and is warranteed for 100,000 miles.
>
> It spreads depreciation costs for other vehicle components -- including
> the rest of the hybrid drive, which accounts for part of the premium
> price you pay for a Prius over its non-hybrid competitors -- over more miles.
True, but it (like with any other car) causes the parts to wear out
sooner chronologically, and increases the rate of depreciation per year.
McNalley
I was actually barking more on the smug enviro-nazi types than
liberals, even though it did not come across that way. I worked with
one like that...couldn't stand the woman, though what she actually
drove was a Honda. I date a democrat, and I absolutely hate the
republican party, so that should tell you something.
McNalley
I was specifying Prius owners. I tend to think most Camry drivers are
conservative or independent.
Larry Harvilla
> Last time on ca.driving, Larry Harvilla <la...@phatpage.org> said:
>
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>> This guy deserves to get beat up for his smugness.
>>>
>>> License plate: GR88MPG.
>>>
>>> Really? We already know you're driving a Prius, dork. Waving that fact
>>> in my face, while I sat in traffic looking at your back bumper, was just
>>> simply obnoxious.
>>
>> fundraising plate (
>> http://services.sos.state.mi.us/plates/papstep2.asp?plateType=UNIVERSITY&plateID=uofm
>> ), with a plate number of "PG 50." IOW, they were using the "block M"
>> logo of U-M to make a statement about their gas mileage: "MPG 50."
>>
>> Now if only I could obtain Michigan State plates and use their block S
>> logo with plate numbers like "T8SUX," "T8SUKS," or "T8SUXX" (all
>> variants on State sucks). ;-)
>
> Too bad "MUCK FICHIGAN" is too many letters for a license plate. :)
And sadly, so is "SPUCK THE FARTANS." ;-)
--
Larry Harvilla
e-mail: larry AT phatpage DOT org
http://www.phatpage.org/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larrysphatpage
Cameron Kaiser
>>Except, unless he had been driving a very inefficient vehicle before
>>he bought the Prius, he'll never recoup the money he spent to buy it
>>with the savings in fuel. =A0Assuming a normal 12,000 annual mileage
>>driven, a 15mpg vehicle before the Prius, and $3/gallon gas, the
>>savings over 4 years comes to just $4,100. =A0
>True. It's like people who bought PCs for their home in the early
>days. In 1983 a fully loaded IBM XT could be $2,500 or more--and that
>would be much more in today's dollars. Yet the machine couldn't do
>very much compared to today.
And my Commodore 64 did nearly as much for considerably less. But I'm
channeling Jack Tramiel, so I'll stop. ;-)
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
Computer Workshops: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/
Floodgap Systems: http://www.floodgap.com/
personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
H.B. Elkins
>Now, see, I wouldn't be caught dead driving a Prius. That would damage my
>image irreparably. I could never live down the shame of being mistaken
>for a 'liberal', a hippie or a Mac user.
And what's wrong with being a Mac user?
H.B., decidedly not a hippie or a liberal but a Mac user since 1987
H.B. Elkins
>And sadly, so is "SPUCK THE FARTANS." ;-)
With all this hate directed at MSU recently, are you going to have any left for
the (or The) *other* State University you detest so much?
Larry Sheldon
> Cameron Kaiser <cka...@floodgap.com> had written:
> | Jonathan L <jlip...@gmail.com> writes:
> |
> | >Prius drivers replaced Jetta drivers in my book as the worst assholes
> | >on the road about 4 years ago. This is despite the fact that almost
> | >every close call I've had on a road has been due to a Jetta driver in
> | >front of me doing something stupid.
> |
> | A friend of mine has a theory about that with Corollas, but that's the
> | Bay Area, so I imagine this could be different demographics at work.
>
> Volvos. Their drivers are especially mean to bicyclists.
I remember a web site (might have pre-dated the "blog" notion) about
drivers, especially Volvo drivers, over Highway 17.
The did a test to see if driving a Volvo really did make you stupider.
As I recall, their findings were that it did not, and (at least in the
test car) the turn signals worked.
--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information:
http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Larry Sheldon
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>>> Except, unless he had been driving a very inefficient vehicle before
>>> he bought the Prius, he'll never recoup the money he spent to buy it
>>> with the savings in fuel. =A0Assuming a normal 12,000 annual mileage
>>> driven, a 15mpg vehicle before the Prius, and $3/gallon gas, the
>>> savings over 4 years comes to just $4,100. =A0
>
>> True. It's like people who bought PCs for their home in the early
>> days. In 1983 a fully loaded IBM XT could be $2,500 or more--and that
>> would be much more in today's dollars. Yet the machine couldn't do
>> very much compared to today.
>
> And my Commodore 64 did nearly as much for considerably less. But I'm
> channeling Jack Tramiel, so I'll stop. ;-)
I hadn't heard about Commodores and Amigas but a bare bones XT (or XT
clone in my case with an extravagant 20 MB hard drive and an addon
memory board (forget how big it was)) could dial into a real computer
(1110 at the time, I think, might have been the 1100/80 by then) and do
some serious work. I still have the FX 286 from that setup--sadly, it
doesn't work anymore and I have never tried to fix it--I mean seriously
tried.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> I hadn't heard about Commodores and Amigas but a bare bones XT (or XT
> clone in my case with an extravagant 20 MB hard drive and an addon
> memory board (forget how big it was)) could dial into a real computer
> (1110 at the time, I think, might have been the 1100/80 by then) and do
> some serious work.
A 'dumb terminal' to dial into a mainframe cost about one-third that
of an XT back then.
Clark F Morris
<koz...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Oscar Voss" <oscar...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How does high mileage reduce costs ... the battery's life
>>> in general is measured in miles, and is warranteed for 100,000 miles.
>>
>> It spreads depreciation costs for other vehicle components -- including
>> the rest of the hybrid drive, which accounts for part of the premium
>> price you pay for a Prius over its non-hybrid competitors -- over more miles.
>
>True, but it (like with any other car) causes the parts to wear out
>sooner chronologically, and increases the rate of depreciation per year.
While I went with a Corolla back in 2004, the Prius was of interest to
me both then and now. If it has blended braking which I believe it
does, there should be less wear on the braking system and the electric
portion of the transmission should be robust considering that the same
idea has be used in diesel electric locomotives for decades now. It
would be interesting to know how long Prius owners keep their cars and
if they do well on the used market. I know at least one was used as a
taxi and Toyota bought it back after 300K kilometers / 186K miles to
see how it had done and the taxi driver got a newer Prius. This was
in the Toyota magazine around the time I got my Corolla. Given that I
live in an area with undulating topography (rural Nova Scotia), I
would be curious as to how well a Prius would do for the driving I do.
Oscar Voss
news:8uned5t2ou9gvpb63...@4ax.com...
> Given that I
> live in an area with undulating topography (rural Nova Scotia), I
> would be curious as to how well a Prius would do for the driving I do.
The Prius is at its worst in the Rockies, with long high-altitude grades
that drain the hybrid battery, leaving with you only with the little gas
motor to limp the rest of the way to the summit.
I didn't have such problems with the lower, shorter, and gentler grades on
I-68 in western Maryland, with the electric motor providing enough boost to
handle the grades but enough level ground and downhill stretches to give the
hybrid battery a chance to recharge.
I think you'll do OK, but you should try to get a test drive (maybe a
weekend rental?) to decide for yourself.
Josh
<oscar...@comcast.net> wrote:
><hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
>news:45f0c80c-a844-4aab...@k33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> In contrast, I suspect that in open-road easy highway
>> driving the hybrids won't do as well.
>
>Compared to a non-hybrid with a similarly underpowered gas engine, the
>hybrid performs about the same. But the hybrid drive's electic boost to the
>little putt-putt gas engine makes it more tolerable for non-highway driving,
>so you can get by with a less powerful gas engine than if you didn't have
>the hybrid drive.
Yes -- we have a Highlander Hybrid, which has a 6-cylinder engine.
Performance-wise, it's like driving a V-8 (low-end torque is
especially good), and it gets slightly better gas mileage than a weak
4-cylinder in a similar vehicle. We like it.
Josh
Josh
wrote:
>Scott M. Kozel <koz...@comcast.net> had written:
>| Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>| >
>| > bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>| >
>| >> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>| >
>| > That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>|
>| I ran the figures, comparing a 50 mpg Prius to a 30 mph conventional
>| car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
>| costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
>| warrantied 100,000 mile point.
>
>We came to a similar conclusion a couple of years ago, and that was
>in an area (Northern California) that doubtless has higher gas prices
>than yours.
But just as there's no expectation that you'll have to replace a whole
conventional car at 36,000 miles when the warranty expires, that's a
false calculation for a hybrid too. I couldn't find much data on
actual average life (or even large numbers of reports from owners that
they had to replace the batteries at 100,001 miles) -- some anectodal
data that a fleet of Australian taxis had 1 or 2 cars require
replacement at ~250K miles, and other data saying that fewer than 1%
of all the pre-2004 Prii sold have had post-warranty battery failures
(and a lower percentage of post-2004, though fewer of those would have
100K+ miles on them)
http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/2008/05/some-hard-figures-on-hybrid-battery.html
In short, I'd perhaps take battery cost into consideration before
buying a high mileage used hybrid, but for a new/low mileage one it's
just another *potential* cost down the road, one that likely won't
occur before I "use up" all the practical value in the car anyway.
Just like a potential transmission rebuild (the Prius/Highlander
transmission is much simpler than a conventional car), starter motor
(doesn't have one), water pump, etc, which can have similar costs (a
few K$)
Josh
Otto Yamamoto
> And what's wrong with being a Mac user?
Too sensitive to taunting from swinish malcontent Linux fanbois for
starters. HAW! HAW! HAW!
Scott M. Kozel
>
> Mark Roberts <markrob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Scott M. Kozel <koz...@comcast.net> had written:
>>
>> | car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
>> | costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
>> | warrantied 100,000 mile point.
>>
>> We came to a similar conclusion a couple of years ago, and that was
>> in an area (Northern California) that doubtless has higher gas prices
>> than yours.
>
> But just as there's no expectation that you'll have to replace a whole
> conventional car at 36,000 miles when the warranty expires, that's a
> false calculation for a hybrid too. I couldn't find much data on
> actual average life (or even large numbers of reports from owners that
> they had to replace the batteries at 100,001 miles) -- some anectodal
> data that a fleet of Australian taxis had 1 or 2 cars require
> replacement at ~250K miles, and other data saying that fewer than 1%
> of all the pre-2004 Prii sold have had post-warranty battery failures
> (and a lower percentage of post-2004, though fewer of those would have
> 100K+ miles on them)
That's the problem ... at this early point in the technological
lifecycle of the Prius, there just isn't enough data yet to predict how
many miles past 100,000 the median battery might last; at least that is
the results of my research on the issue.
Brian Reynolds
"Oscar Voss" <oscar...@comcast.net> wrote
> "Clark F Morris" <cfmp...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote
>> Given that I
My wife and I bought a Prius (it's her car) a few weeks before our recent
trip to Texas. On the way there, we put it through a test in the Ozark
Mountains along AR-7 from Harrison to Arkadelphia. This road offers about
200 miles of very challenging road with long grades and tight curves and
switchbacks. The Prius performed as good as any other car. On this
segment, the fuel mileage was 46.5 MPG. In the flatlands, we averaged 48.5
MPG. That's with most of the miles traveled at 75� MPH.
I have heard about the OCD Prius owners who will squeeze out every
conceivable bit of fuel mileage at the expense of everybody else's sense of
humor. I'm not like that, nor is my wife. We both routinely stretch the
posted speed limit by 7-8.
We had no problem whatsoever justifying the purchase. We reliably put about
19,000 miles on each of our vehicles every year, and we keep vehicles until
death do us part. The fuel savings begin immediately and will continue for
10-15 or more years. Fuel prices are low now, but will spike again as the
economy improves. And it will improve.
I had a retired work vehicle, an old 16 MPG Jeep Wrangler with 160,000 miles
that I had been trying unsuccessfully for months to peddle for the Blue Book
$2,800 (maybe $2.000 on a conventional trade-in). We turned that into
$4,500 in ObamaBucks, which sweetened the deal nicely, but we would have
bought the Prius anyway.
I don't understand why it is considered somehow exotic. There is nothing
cutting-edge or experimental about the Prius. It is proven technology and
value.
This is the first foreign car either of us have ever had. Linda and I both
come from dedicated Ford loyalist families. We looked long and hard at the
nearest things Ford had to offer. It would have cost 30% more, and gotten
20% less fuel mileage. Quality and reliabliity were nearly a toss-up, with
a slight edge toward the Prius. Ford is catching up in all categories, and
our next might be a Ford. But we simply could not reconcile the numbers in
Ford's favor this year.
BTW, the Prius is pretty comfortable for long-haul trips, and accomodates
four big-and-tall adults quite comfortably for shorter trips.
Scoff if you must, but the Prius is a damn good car. Whatever you might
guess this purchase says about us politically, you are probably mistaken. I
am squarely passionately firmly in the middle. To quote an old Leon Russell
lyric, "The Left ones think I'm Right; the Right ones think I'm wrong."
--
Brian Reynolds
Hastings Michigan
Cameron Kaiser
>>Now, see, I wouldn't be caught dead driving a Prius. That would damage my
>>image irreparably. I could never live down the shame of being mistaken
>>for a 'liberal', a hippie or a Mac user.
>And what's wrong with being a Mac user?
>H.B., decidedly not a hippie or a liberal but a Mac user since 1987
Mac Addict once published a quip from someone forgettable who opined that
conservatives only use PCs.
I wonder what my quad G5 thinks about that.
Otto Yamamoto
> Mac Addict once published a quip from someone forgettable who opined
> that conservatives only use PCs.
>
> I wonder what my quad G5 thinks about that.
Good question. Most of the Mac users I know(not that my experience is
indicative of anything) identify as 'conservative'.
The Real Bev
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:20:02 -0500, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>
>> Mac Addict once published a quip from someone forgettable who opined
>> that conservatives only use PCs.
What else can they do with them?
>> I wonder what my quad G5 thinks about that.
>
> Good question. Most of the Mac users I know(not that my experience is
> indicative of anything) identify as 'conservative'.
Linux for Libertarians!
--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Polish loan sharks: they loan you money and then skip town.
Cameron Kaiser
>>Mac Addict once published a quip from someone forgettable who opined
>>that conservatives only use PCs.
>>I wonder what my quad G5 thinks about that.
>Good question. Most of the Mac users I know(not that my experience is
>indicative of anything) identify as 'conservative'.
That appears to have been Mac Addict's experience as well, because they
got besieged with letters berating the quote.
The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> writes:
>Linux for Libertarians!
Actually, I would not be a bit surprised.
Frito Pendejo
> It must really suck to be a Rodriguez fan right now.
>
> The icon of football losing to the lowly Cow College down the road. Twice.
> In a row.
Rodriguez doesn't strike me as very smart. He ran off one of the best QBs
in the country just because he didn't fit his offensive scheme.
Frito Pendejo
> Jonathan L <jlip...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Prius drivers replaced Jetta drivers in my book as the worst assholes
>> on the road about 4 years ago. This is despite the fact that almost
>> every close call I've had on a road has been due to a Jetta driver in
>> front of me doing something stupid.
>
> A friend of mine has a theory about that with Corollas, but that's the
> Bay Area, so I imagine this could be different demographics at work.
I always see Slowyotas going 15 under the speed limit.
Frito Pendejo
> In article <hb4bu7$ejm$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>
>>> bashley101 @gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>> A friend got one for the 50 mpg. He's been happy for 4 years now.
>>>
>>> That's actually a VALID REASON to buy a Prius.
>>
>> car, and the power costs were near breakeven. That was using current
>> costs for fuel, and current cost for battery replacement at the
>> warrantied 100,000 mile point.
>
> car, and some of the numbers that you started with for the
> costs (of the cars and of the gasoline). I ran these numbers
> a while back, and could not find a way to justify a Prius.
> My baseline was my $15,000 HHR that gets 32 MPG highway, 29
> MPG city.
The only problem I have with the HHR is the windshield is too low, and I
have to duck down to see traffic lights. My mom has the 172 HP version, and
it's pretty peppy, especially for an automatic.
Frito Pendejo
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:07:10 -0700 (PDT), McNalley wrote:
>
>> If I had the car of my choice right now
>> (aside from luxury car) I would prolly by a Scion.
>
> You *do* know who the most infamous Scion driver in MTR is, don't you?
The old generation xB is underpowered and top-heavy. And I don't like the
speedometer in the middle of the dash. It does have a lot of room for such
a short vehicle, however. I read the new generation has a lot more power,
but far worse gas mileage.
Frito Pendejo
> My wife and I bought a Prius (it's her car) a few weeks before our
> recent trip to Texas. On the way there, we put it through a test in
> the Ozark Mountains along AR-7 from Harrison to Arkadelphia. This
> road offers about 200 miles of very challenging road with long grades
> and tight curves and switchbacks. The Prius performed as good as any
> other car. On this segment, the fuel mileage was 46.5 MPG. In the
> flatlands, we averaged 48.5 MPG. That's with most of the miles
> traveled at 75� MPH.
You averaged 75 on hwy 7? Or are you talking about the flat areas?
Frito Pendejo
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:29:24 -0400, Oscar Voss wrote:
>
>> Yeah. My Prius has a McCain (no Palin) bumper sticker on it, as
>> well as stickers for two current Republican candidates, in part to
>> make it clear not everybody around here fits the standard Arlington
>> liberal Prius-driver stereotype. (Arlington County is Virginia's
>> bluest county, not counting the independent cities.)
>
> Now, see, I wouldn't be caught dead driving a Prius. That would
> damage my image irreparably. I could never live down the shame of
> being mistaken for a 'liberal', a hippie or a Mac user.
I'd never buy a Prius because I can't see myself driving a car styled after
the Saint Louis Arch.