request for meaning

[Saroja Bhate]

Namaskaar
Can you help me understand the precise meaning of the following wellknown
verses ?:

Na haayanair na palitair na vittena na bandhubhih
RSayo cakrire dharmam yo'noocaanah sa me mahaan //
Naatyarthamarthitayaa lubdhamudvijayed janam
Abdhirdattvaashvaratnam streermathyamaano'sRjad visham //
Dhanyavaadah
Bhate

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[iragavarapu narasimhacharya]

परिषदं प्रणम्य।
श्लोकस्संस्कृतेऽस्ति चेत् प्रयत्नङ्कर्तुं शक्यते भोः।आङ्ग्लभाषायां
स्पष्टं नावगतम्।क्षम्यताम्।
अभिवाद्य,
ऐवियनाचार्यः।1/1/27 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>:

> --
> अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
> निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
>

[Sampath Kannan]

Respected Madam, May I make a humble attempt in the Surprise Test you are giving ? One ought not to agitate heavily  (na atyartham udvejayet) a greedy man (lubdham janam), beseeching riches beyond purpose (atyartham 2 arthArthitayA) greedily (lubdham 2). After bestowing the horse and the gem (or, the gem of a horse) (as'va-ratnam), and damsels (strIH), the Ocean generated poison (abdhiH vis"am asRjat), upon churning [the further] (mathyamAnaH). Notes : 1.atyartham, adverb, can be taken either with the verb for agitation (udvejayet), or with the notion of soliciting (arthana), and in both cases it may mean 'beyond limit.' Refer amarakos'a : ativela-bhrs'A'tyarthA'timAtrodgADha-nirbharm / tIvraikAnta-nitAntAni gADha-bADha-dRDhAni ca // 2.And as artha means prayojana, it can also be taken to mean 'beyond the purpose/need.' amarakos'a  again: artho'bhidheye rai-vastu-prayojana-nivRttis"u // 3.lubdham can be taken (a) either as an adjective, as in lubdham janam, or (b) as an adverb; or even (c), as an adverb, again, as in lubdham arthayet. However, it is the first sense that looks more sensible, whereeas the others appear a bit laboured, though technically defensible perhaps. 4. as'va-ratnam means 'the horse and the gem,' yet it may mean the best among horses. refer MallinAtha : jAtau jAtau yad utkRs"Tam tad ratnam abhidhIyaate. Also cf. : ratnam svajAti s'res"The'pi. (kos'a) 5.The verse is traced to s'Arn'gadhara-paddhati 433. The verse given needs a small correction: nA'tyartham arthA'rthitayA       lubdham udvejayej janam / abdhir dattvA's'va-ratnam streer       mathyamAno'sRjad vis"am // The more knowledgeable members of the parishat are welcome to improve upon this rendering. KSKannan Bangalore --- On Thu, 1/27/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

From: Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:25 AM

Namaskaar Can you help me understand the precise meaning of the following wellknown verses ?: Na haayanair na palitair na vittena na bandhubhih RSayo cakrire dharmam yo'noocaanah sa me mahaan //

[Sampath Kannan]

Respected Madam, This is manusmRti 2.154 The correct version is : na hAyanair, na palitair,       na vittena, na bandhubhiH / Rs"ayas' cakrire dharmam -       yo'nUcAnas sa no mahAn // The sages have formulated this ruling [ = on this maxim] (Rs"ayaH cakrire dharmam) : Not on account of the number of years (=age) (na hAyanaiH), nor owing to gray hair (na palitaiH), nor for reasons of riches (na vittena), nor [even] on grounds of kinsmen (na bandhubhiH) - does one become a great man for us (saH naH mahAn); [quite on the contrary,] it is one who has pored over [the Vedic texts] that is great for us (=in our estimate) (saH naH mahAn). Old age and grey hair, high opulence and top family links - these do not make a person great; him we deem great, who has deeply studied the Vedic lore : such is the rule made by the sages. Cf. na dharma-vRddhes"u vayas samIks"yate -kumAra-sambhava 5.16. Suggestions for improvement of the translation are welcome from the members. KSKannan Bangalore

--- On Thu, 1/27/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

From: Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:25 AM

Namaskaar Can you help me understand the precise meaning of the following wellknown verses ?: Na haayanair na palitair na vittena na bandhubhih RSayo cakrire dharmam yo'noocaanah sa me mahaan //

Naatyarthamarthitayaa lubdhamudvijayed janam Abdhirdattvaashvaratnam streermathyamaano'sRjad visham //

[hnbhat B.R.]

Prof.Kannan is very fine in modifying the verse correctly as given in सुभाषितभाण्डागारसंग्रह given the source. The idea seems very simple.

नात्यर्थमर्थार्थितया लुब्धमुद्द्वेजयेद् जनम्।

अब्धिर्दत्त्वाश्वरत्नस्त्रीर्मर्थ्यमानो ऽसृजद् विषम्॥

Mm, Saroja bhate, will easily grasp the meaning from the modified version.

अर्थार्थितया जनं लुब्धं (यथा स्यात् तथा) नात्यर्थमुद्वेजयेद्।

One should not exploit other person greedily person in pursuit of getting wealth. This is a warning against over exploitation of any resource that it may result in undesirable and unexpected tragedy. This is reflected in the अर्थान्तरन्यास clearly.

अब्धिः अश्वरत्नस्त्रीर्दत्त्वा (अनन्तरमपि) मथ्यमनः विषमसृजद्।

The Ocean (Milk Oean) churned even after giving the horse उच्चैःश्रवस् (for Indra), the gem कौस्तुभ  (gem like horse उच्चैःश्रवस्) and the lady लक्ष्मीः (for Vishnu), produced only the great poison (हालाहल). 

In short the moral is over exploitation of resources would result in disaster.

I saw some more comments coming in this respect before I finish.

Welcome to other interpretations too.

2011/1/27 Sampath Kannan <ks_k...@yahoo.com>

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

[Ashok Aklujkar]

The verse naatyartham ... needs one correction in addition to the excellent corrections proposed by by Drs K. S. Kannan and H.N. Bhat. lubdham should be lubdha (i.e., a nominative sg. with the visarga dropped in sandhi before udvejayet). There is no point in characterizing the potentially exploitable person as 'greedy' or implying that the ocean (the parallel of the exploitable person in the analogy) is greedy. It is also not likely that lubdham was intended as an adverb. 

a.a.

[hnbhat B.R.]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for the excellent correction.  Now it should be alright. 

2011/1/28 Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.a...@ubc.ca>

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[Meera H R]

Namaste.

The story of the churning of the ocean occurs famously in these places: Bhāgavata (8.6-8), Mahābhārata (1.16) and Rāmāyana (1.45).

The story in Bhāgavata gives that Hālāhala appeared first(8.6.25), followed by Uccaiḥśravas (8.8.3), Airāvata (8.8.5) etc. Even in Mahābhārata, Hālāhala is the first to appear (1.16.15) followed by the good things.

The verse here mentions the poison appearing last.

Would someone please clarify?

Thank you.

Regards,

Meera

2011/1/27 hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

[Ganesh R]

@Ms.Meera.H.R.

Yes; as you have noticed, there is a discrepancy in that verse. This is an example of krama bhanga dOSha as per Alamkaarashaastra. However, the analogy is catchy and the wisdom implied here is impeccable. Hence we have to  bear with such distortions of mythological sequences.

regards


ganesh

[S P Narang]

Epics and popular poetry does not care for the doSas developed by later rhetoricians. So that test should be ignored. Regards, spnarang

---

From: Ganesh R <avadhan...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 1:02:59 AM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

[Saroja Bhate]

I apologise for the delay as I was out of station. Many thanks to Dr. Kannan(the same old friend of mine, I guess),Dr. Bhat, Dr. Aklujkar, Meera

(who rightly voiced my difficulty), and Dr. Ganesh. So, arthaarthitayaa is upalakSaNe tRteeyaa .and not hetau or karaNe   I also agree with the corrections . In fact I found the correction suggested by kannan in the printed text, but the other intelligent corrections suggested by Aklujkar and Bhat need corroboration by . pathabheda recorded somewhere. Lubdha(h) would, indeed, be far more acceptable.So also the compound ashvaratnastreeh which would better explain the plural after stree

Thanks again.

Here is another verse:

sacchidranikaTe vaaso na kartavyah kadaacana / ghaTee pibati paaneeyam taaDyate jhallaree yayaa//.

Please help

Bhate

---

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ganesh R
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 01:03 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

@Ms.Meera.H.R.

Yes; as you have noticed, there is a discrepancy in that verse. This is an example of krama bhanga dOSha as per Alamkaarashaastra. However, the analogy is catchy and the wisdom implied here is impeccable. Hence we have to  bear with such distortions of mythological sequences.

regards


ganesh

2011/1/27 Meera H R <meera.hr@gmail.com>

Namaste.

 

The story of the churning of the ocean occurs famously in these places: Bhāgavata (8.6-8), Mahābhārata (1.16) and Rāmāyana (1.45).

 

The story in Bhāgavata gives that Hālāhala appeared first(8.6.25), followed by Uccai?śravas (8.8.3), Airāvata (8.8.5) etc. Even in Mahābhārata, Hālāhala is the first to appear (1.16.15) followed by the good things.

The verse here mentions the poison appearing last.

 

Would someone please clarify?

 

Thank you.

Regards,

Meera

2011/1/27 hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

Dear Sir,

 

Thanks for the excellent correction.  Now it should be alright. 

2011/1/28 Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.a...@ubc.ca>

 

The verse naatyartham ... needs one correction in addition to the excellent corrections proposed by by Drs K. S. Kannan and H.N. Bhat. lubdham should be lubdha (i.e., a nominative sg. with the visarga dropped in sandhi before udvejayet). There is no point in characterizing the potentially exploitable person as 'greedy' or implying that the ocean (the parallel of the exploitable person in the analogy) is greedy. It is also not likely that lubdham was intended as an adverb. 

 

a.a.

 

On 2011-01-27, at 12:53 AM, Sampath Kannan wrote:

One ought not to agitate heavily  (na atyartham udvejayet) a greedy man (lubdham janam), beseeching riches beyond purpose (atyartham 2 arthArthitayA) greedily (lubdham 2). After bestowing the horse and the gem (or, the gem of a horse) (as'va-ratnam), and damsels (strIH), the Ocean generated poison (abdhiH vis"am asRjat), upon churning [the further] (mathyamAnaH).

 

--
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--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

--

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--
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?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

 

--
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??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3403 - Release Date: 01/25/11 19:34:00

[Sampath Kannan]

Respected Madam, Yes, the same old guy : so'yam devadattaH/punar AyAn mahAkapiH !? It is easy to translate the verse, but difficult to grasp the sense fully, as the analogy is highly contextual. sacchidra-nikaTe vAso       na kartavyaH kadAcana / ghaTI pibati pAnIyam       tADyate jhallarI yayA // Never should one dwell vAso  na kartavyaH kadAcana / in the vicinity of one with (loop-)holes sacchidra-nikaTe The pot consumes water  ghaTI pibati pAnIyam by which [pot] is beaten the cymbal  tADyate jhallarI yayA // Notes 1. jhallarI is a musical instrument. Perhaps some water is poured into it. That is for the purpose of making it give rise to a sort of liquid sound (coming close to the lldldldl-sound; quite likely, the word jhallarI is onomatopoetic). It is perhaps like the Damaru in the hands of S'iva. 2. ghaTI is creating a lot of problem. The Damaru has two sUtra-koNa-s, as they are called, that beat the two sides alternatively. Perhaps they have an orifice that can be closed, and a small pot like shape at the loose ends wherethrough water is poured into the jhallarI that gives rise to such a sound. 3. chidra means both : hole and flaw. It is best to eschew men of blemish - seems to be the message of the verse. But it is only those familiar with the structure of the musical instrument(s) that can satisfactorily handle the verse and offer the right/full sense. Members of BVP are most welcome to improve my rendering and explanation, and thus enhance my own knowledge. Thanks in advance. KSKannan Bangalore

--- On Sat, 1/29/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

--

[Ganesh R]

@Prof. Kannan Sir,

May i suggest that the verse "sachchidra.... " may be interpreted in a different way?
I feel that it is the 'gaLige baTTalu'( in kannada, may be termed as ghaTI paatram in Skt.)
along with the jhallari (  ref. to books like Maanasollaasa or samgeetaratnaakaras' vaaadyaadhaaya too.The jayaghaNTaa > jaagaTE(in kannada) a bronze disc which is used to beat according to the time so that the "prahara-s" can be indicated) are focused here. In this fine verese of LOkaneeti fragrant  with the apt employment of pun in  words like sachchdra, taaDyatE etc. the work of a ghaTee-yantra  is taken as an analogy to suggest the difficulties faced by the good who are compelled to stay  in the compenyof the bad.
GhaTee-yantra comprises of a big vessel filled with water and a small bowl  with a small hole at the bottom floats in it. As time elapses, this small bowl getting filled with water sinks in the big vessel. Then the observers, having seen this, indicate the time by beating the bronze disc, the jhallari. Pls refer to the ghaTikaasthaana-s of our past well documented in the edicts where teaaching, study and research too used to go on.
Pls bear with my "apaTeekshEpa" in this discussion!!

regards

ganesh

2011/1/29 Sampath Kannan <ks_k...@yahoo.com>

[Ramasubramanian Sharma]

Well done, Prof. Akhlujkar!

regards,
-ram.

> Dear Sri Arun Upadhyaya,
>
> Like most participants on this list, I wish to learn, and I try to keep as
> open a mind as is humanly possible.
>
> On 2011-01-19, at 6:19 PM, you wrote:
>
>> (1) Measures of galaxy are given in all astronomical texts, various
>> places in Rigveda, kathopanishad, also.
>
> Precise textual references, please. Also an explanation of why the words
> actually found in the texts are best accounted for with your understanding
> (= kindly spell out how one starts with the literal or etymological or
> traditional meanings of the words (the meanings given in ko;sas,
> dictionaries, received Sanskrit commentaries, etc.) and arrives at the
> meaning you attach to them; clarify why your meaning is better). What is
> the word used for 'galaxy'? Is it constant through the texts? How do we
> know that it means exactly the same thing as 'galaxy' in modern
> astronomical texts? If more than one word is used, are the attested words
> definitely synonymous? If not, how do their meanings or shades of meaning
> differ?
>
>> (2) In 1902, Madhusudan Ojha had written about axial rotation of
>> galaxy as manvantara of 30.68 crore years. He explained that human
>> mind is image of galaxy as number of particles are same in that (100
>> billions) as per Shatapatha Brahmana verses explained by Sayana also-
>> so the axial rotation of galaxy was called Manvantara.
> Precise reference to where Ojha said what you attribute to him, please.
> Which part of the ;Sata-patha Braahma.na and Saaya.na did he refer to? Why
> do you think his understanding is correct or better? How was the
> information that a/the galaxy and human mind have the same number of
> particles obtained? Did Ojha mean a particular galaxy or a galaxy in
> general? (By the way, I have great respect for Pt. Madhusudan Ojha as an
> innovator. At a difficult time for traditional scholarship, he showed how
> independent and creative it could be. The tradition needed such a model. I
> wish there were more like him. Whether he is right or wrong in this or
> that respect is for the specialists of each field to decide.)
>
>> (3) Vishnu purana (2/7/3-4) state 3 earth/sky pairs and state that
>> sizes of world structures starting from man to earth , solar system,
>> g

[Ramasubramanian Sharma]

Dear Profs. Kannan and Bhate,

Assuming that the later part of the verse describes the operation of a
water clock employed in those days - which used to be designed in such a
way that as it keeps sinking by a certain amount through a contrivance
attached to it, it will keep ringing a bell to denote that a certain
amount of time has elapsed - the import of the verse could be understand
as follows:

`Though the water pot (men) with a hole rings the bell (through certain
activities) and thereby draws the attention of people towards it (them),
we must not forget that it (they) will definitely sink in due course, and
hence it is not advisable ....'

To me, the message the poet wanted to give seems to be don't rely on it
(them), as the show exhibited by them is only temporal!

Would be glad to have your views on this.

Thanks much, and
Best regards,
-Ram.

> From:
> bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> bvpar...@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ganesh R
>
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011
> 01:03 AM
>
> To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request
> for meaning
>
>
>
>  
>
> @Ms.Meera.H.R.
>
>
>
> Yes; as you have noticed, there is a discrepancy in that verse. This is an
> example of krama bhanga dOSha as per Alamkaarashaastra. However, the
> analogy is
> catchy and the wisdom implied here is impeccable. Hence we have to  bear
> with such distortions of mythological sequences.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> ganesh
>
>
>

> 2011/1/27 Meera H R <meer...@gmail.com>

[Sampath Kannan]

s'rIman gaNes'a bhvAdRks"aiH       prasan'ktavyam ito'dhikam / s'Astra-sandoha-nis"NAtair       nAnA-sandeha-vAribhiH // --- On Sat, 1/29/11, Ganesh R <avadhan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sampath Kannan]

Dear Dr Sharma, vidvat-paris"adA sArdham       samsargas sadudarkayuk / sandigdhe kas'cana pras"TA       vidagdhAs subahUttarAH // KSKannan Bangalore --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Ramasubramanian Sharma <kra...@iitb.ac.in> wrote:

[S P Narang]

Jhallari is a musical instrument in Kadambari. Its variant is carcika also. A few verses can be found in Vik0 IV. It may be a local instruments accompanied by Apabhramsa songs. To be investigated in this light. Best wishes, spnarang

---

From: Sampath Kannan <ks_k...@yahoo.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 7:11:00 PM

[Sampath Kannan]

Dear All, Here is some info which comes close to what Narang-ji says : jhallarI jhillarI  ca dve huduke bAlacakrake - says medinI (lexicon). jhallarI, jhillarI, and huduka are listed there as musical instruments. vAdya-prabhedA Damaru- maDDu-DiNDima-jharjharAH - says amarakos'a. jhallarI figures in amarakos'a too. huDuka (hudukka/utukka in other languages) is perhaps what in Kannada is called  buDubuDike. I am still not sure it is referred to here. KSKannan Bangalore --- On Sun, 1/30/11, S P Narang <spna...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: S P Narang <spna...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

[Saroja Bhate]

I thank prof.s Ramasubramanian, Kannan, SP Narang and others for helping me understand the meaning of the verse.Though the exact nature of Jhallari is still not clear to me, I can imagine a small hanging pot filled with water and having a hole at the bottom from which water drops on a metal upsidedown-dish-like instrument striking another metal dish below it and thus creating a musical sound. Interesting, isn't it?Some one should design such an instrument. May I seek more help for the following?:
sauhaardasvarNarekhaaNaamuccaavacabhidaajuSaam / parokSamiti ko'pyasti pareekSaanikaSopalah //
durlabho'pyuttamah praayah svajaateeyena labhyate/karNakotaragam vaari vaariNaivaavakrSyate //
Dhanyavaadaah
Bhate

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3409 - Release Date: 01/28/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

I think the first poses no problem as it simple in its assertion.

सौहार्दस्वर्णरेखाणां उच्चावचभिदाजुषाम्।

परोक्षमिति को ऽप्यस्ति सुवर्णनिकषोपलः॥

(Cited in कुवलयानन्दः)

The golden strings friendship assuming different forms, have got a touch stone (सुवर्ण-निकषोपलः) called परोक्ष (indirect references).

The idea is that most your friends may express different greetings to you in your presence (praising you vividly = glittering like the golden lines). But if they hold the same value in your absence, they have to be considered true to friendship they keep. The purport is that in your absence they will find fault with you and only to please you they exhibit friendship to gain something from you. Only those who maintain the same opinion about you even in your absence, they are to be considered as true friends. I liked this verse very much.

सुहृदो भावः = सौहर्दम्, तानेव स्वर्णरेखा = स्वर्णरेखा इव।

उच्चवचं नैकभेदम् (अमरः), भिदा - भेदः (भावे अङ्)।

सुवर्णनिकषोपलः (touch stone for verifying the genuineness of gold) 

आकर्षः इति सुवर्णपरीक्षार्थो निकषोपलः उच्यते।

"शाणस्तु निकषः कषः" इत्यमरात्, शाणापरपर्यायः निकषशब्द एव स्पष्टप्रतुपत्त्यर्थम्, "सुबर्ण-निकषोपलः"  इति प्रयुक्तः। अर्थभेदस्तु नात्येव।

In the second,

durlabho'pyuttamah praayah svajaateeyena labhyate/karNakotaragam vaari vaariNaivaavakrSyate //

दुर्लभो ऽप्युत्तमः प्रायः स्वजातीयेन लभ्यते।

कर्णकोटरगं वारि वारिणैवावकृष्यते॥

(वृद्धचाणक्य. ३३)

also seems to be simple in the idea conveyed. 

The wise man will generally be found out (recognized)  by another man of his genre (another Uttama). 

The printed reading उत्तमप्रायः also make the same sense. This reflects the same idea as:

विद्वानेव विजानाति विद्वज्जनपरिश्रमम्।

न हि वन्ध्या विजानाति गुर्वीं प्रसववेदनाम्॥

and too

"सर्वः सगन्धेषु स्निह्यति" If good men fail to recognize other good men, how can others recognize?

But the problem is the analogy of water based on some practice of medicine. Analogy is perfect, based on साजात्य. 

Water crept inside the ear lobes, is to be extracted with water only.(Only medical experts can explain the idea) reminding us of the analogy in the last verse of घटी and झल्लरी. But the analogy is beautiful.

Thanking you once again for bumping two more beautiful verses,

With regards

[Saroja Bhate]

Thank you very much Dr. Bhat.Such a beautiful meaning I never imagined. Simply great!

Thanks also for the second verse. My difficulty is with the dRStaanta. As you have said we must consult a medical expert (Aayurveda, ofcourse).

Sorry, my computer cannot read any other fonts. It has shown ????? in place of Devanagari in your mail. I could not therefore read the verse in your other mail. Can you send it in Roman? I feel more encouraged by your response.

Here is another verse for your consideration:

yata evaagato doSastata eva nivartate/ agnidagdhasya visphoTashaantih syaadagninaa dhruvam//

Thanks again

Bhate

 

---

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:09 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

I think the first poses no problem as it simple in its assertion.

 

???????????????????? ??????????????????

?????????? ?? ???????? ???????????????

(Cited in ???????????)

The golden strings friendship assuming different forms, have got a touch stone (??????-????????) called ?????? (indirect references).

 

The idea is that most your friends may express different greetings to you in your presence (praising you vividly = glittering like the golden lines). But if they hold the same value in your absence, they have to be considered true to friendship they keep. The purport is that in your absence they will find fault with you and only to please you they exhibit friendship to gain something from you. Only those who maintain the same opinion about you even in your absence, they are to be considered as true friends. I liked this verse very much.

?????? ???? = ????????, ????? ?????????? = ?????????? ???

??????? ???????? (????), ???? - ???? (???? ???)?

?????????????? (touch stone for verifying the genuineness of gold) 

?????? ??? ????????????????? ???????? ???????

 

"??????? ????? ???" ?????????, ????????????? ???????? ?? ??????????????????????, "??????-????????"  ??? ?????????? ??????????? ????????

In the second,

 

durlabho'pyuttamah praayah svajaateeyena labhyate/karNakotaragam vaari vaariNaivaavakrSyate //

 

??????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????

?????????? ???? ?????????????????

(???????????. ??)

 

also seems to be simple in the idea conveyed. 

The wise man will generally be found out (recognized)  by another man of his genre (another Uttama). 

The printed reading ??????????? also make the same sense. This reflects the same idea as:

 

????????? ???????? ???????????????????

? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?????????????

and too

"????? ???????? ?????????" If good men fail to recognize other good men, how can others recognize?

 

But the problem is the analogy of water based on some practice of medicine. Analogy is perfect, based on ???????. 

 

Water crept inside the ear lobes, is to be extracted with water only.(Only medical experts can explain the idea) reminding us of the analogy in the last verse of ??? and ??????. But the analogy is beautiful.

 

Thanking you once again for bumping two more beautiful verses,

With regards


--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

--

?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3417 - Release Date: 02/01/11 19:34:00

[Saroja Bhate]

Namaskaar

Please help me understand;

yata evaagato doSastata eva nivartate/

agnidagdhasya visphoTashaantih syaadagninaa dhruvam//

I have problem with the second line

Regards

Bhate

 

---

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:09 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

I think the first poses no problem as it simple in its assertion.

 

???????????????????? ??????????????????

?????????? ?? ???????? ???????????????

(Cited in ???????????)

The golden strings friendship assuming different forms, have got a touch stone (??????-????????) called ?????? (indirect references).

 

The idea is that most your friends may express different greetings to you in your presence (praising you vividly = glittering like the golden lines). But if they hold the same value in your absence, they have to be considered true to friendship they keep. The purport is that in your absence they will find fault with you and only to please you they exhibit friendship to gain something from you. Only those who maintain the same opinion about you even in your absence, they are to be considered as true friends. I liked this verse very much.

?????? ???? = ????????, ????? ?????????? = ?????????? ???

??????? ???????? (????), ???? - ???? (???? ???)?

?????????????? (touch stone for verifying the genuineness of gold) 

?????? ??? ????????????????? ???????? ???????

 

"??????? ????? ???" ?????????, ????????????? ???????? ?? ??????????????????????, "??????-????????"  ??? ?????????? ??????????? ????????

In the second,

 

durlabho'pyuttamah praayah svajaateeyena labhyate/karNakotaragam vaari vaariNaivaavakrSyate //

 

??????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????

?????????? ???? ?????????????????

(???????????. ??)

 

also seems to be simple in the idea conveyed. 

The wise man will generally be found out (recognized)  by another man of his genre (another Uttama). 

The printed reading ??????????? also make the same sense. This reflects the same idea as:

 

????????? ???????? ???????????????????

? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?????????????

and too

"????? ???????? ?????????" If good men fail to recognize other good men, how can others recognize?

 

But the problem is the analogy of water based on some practice of medicine. Analogy is perfect, based on ???????. 

 

Water crept inside the ear lobes, is to be extracted with water only.(Only medical experts can explain the idea) reminding us of the analogy in the last verse of ??? and ??????. But the analogy is beautiful.

 

Thanking you once again for bumping two more beautiful verses,

With regards


--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

--

?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3417 - Release Date: 02/01/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ayurvedanarayanan <ayurveda...@gmail.com>
Date: 2011/2/7
Subject: Re: Fwd: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning
To: "hnbhat B.R." <hnbh...@gmail.com>

नमः सुहृदे हरिपूर्वमन्नामधृते,

भवद्दत्तश्लोकद्वये पूर्वस्य वैद्यकानुसारेण साधूकरणं सुसाधम् ।

यत एवागतो दोषस्तत एव निवर्तते।

अग्निदग्धस्य विस्फोट-शान्तिः स्यादग्निना ध्रुवम्॥

 

श्लोकस्सयास्यायमभिप्रायः । यतो येन कारणेन दोष आगतस्तेनैव निमित्तेन तस्य दोषस्य शान्तिरपि कर्तुं युज्यते । एतादृशी चिकित्सा तदर्थकारिचिकित्सेति नाम्ना व्यवह्रियते । हेतुविपरीतानां व्याधिविपरीतानामुभयविपरीतानां च साधनानां प्रयोगः प्रायशश्चिकित्सायायां क्रियते । किन्तु क्वचित्तयोरविपरीतवद् भासमानानां परिणामे हेतुव्याधयोर्विपरीतफलदायिनां प्रयोग उपदिश्यते; तादृस्याश्चिकित्साया नाम तदर्थकारिणीत्युच्यते । तदर्थं हेतुव्याधयोर्विपरीतार्थं प्रयोजनमविपरीतत्वेपि समानवदाभासितेपि करोतीति तन्नामार्थः । तत्र च हेतुविपरीतार्थकारिणां व्याधिविपरीतार्थकारिणामुभयविपरीतार्थकारिणाञ्चौषधान्नविहाराणां प्रत्येकमुदाहरणानि विवृतानि । अत्रेदमुभयविरीतार्थकारिचिकित्साया उदहरणम् । अग्निनादग्धस्य कस्यचित् पुरुषस्य विस्फोटस्याग्निनिमित्तजातस्य बुद्बुदवद् दृश्यमानस्य स्पोटस्य शान्तिश्चिकित्सा ध्रुवमग्निनैवाग्निकर्मणैव क्रियते ।

अग्निकर्म नामाग्निना दाहः । कर्मैतद् बहुषु व्याधिषु चिकित्सारूपेण निर्दिष्टमस्ति । यादृच्छिकदग्धेषु तुत्थदग्धमित्यवस्था काचिदस्ति । त्वग् विवर्णोष्यतेत्यर्थमित्यादि तस्य लक्षणम् । चिकित्सा च - "तुत्थस्याग्निप्रतपनं कार्यमुष्णं च भेषजम् " इति ।

 अत्र युक्तिमाह - "स्त्यानेऽस्रे वेदनात्यर्थं विलीने मन्दता रुजः" इति । तुत्थदग्धे रक्तस्य स्त्यानत्वमसम्यक्प्रवाहो भवति । तेनातीव वेदना भवति । तत्र सम्यगदाहेऽग्निप्रयोगे कृते रक्तस्य विलीनता सम्यक्प्रवाहो भवति । अग्निदाहस्य हेतुभूताग्निसामान्ये दाहरूपव्याधिसामान्येपि भासमानयोर्हेतुव्याधयोर्विपरीतार्थं व्यथाशमनं कार्यं करोतीति तच्चिकित्साया उभयविपर्यस्तार्थकारित्वं वर्णितम् ।।

 

अत्र द्वितीये - कर्णकोटरगतस्य जलस्य प्रभूतजलप्रवाहैण बहिरपहरणं प्रायशः क्रियते लोके । चिकित्साशास्त्रे तादृशं किमपि न मया दृष्टम् । तस्य साधुता वान्यथात्वं वाधुना मया न शक्यते वक्तुम् । तत्प्रमाणे कस्मिंश्चिल्लब्धे निवेदयिष्यामि ।।

 

समयविरलताहेतोरधुना निवर्ते ।।

भवदीयः सुहृत्तमः

Dr. P. Narayanan
Medical officer
Govt. Ayurveda Medical College & Hospital
Magercoil

 

 

yata evaagato doSastata eva nivartate/ agnidagdhasya visphoTashaantih syaadagninaa dhruvam//

यत एवागतो दोषस्तत एव निवर्तते।

अग्निदग्धस्य विस्फोट-शान्तिः स्यादग्निना ध्रुवम्॥

 

श्लोकस्सयास्यायमभिप्रायः । यतो येन कारणेन दोष आगतस्तेनैव निमित्तेन तस्य दोषस्य शान्तिरपि कर्तुं युज्यते । एतादृशी चिकित्सा तदर्थकारिचिकित्सेति नाम्ना व्यवह्रियते । 

Just I am re-typing the reply I got for the above verse from a a friend of mine. Just discharged from his "vicikitsaalaya" with his expert "cikitsaa" on the "vicikitsaa" on the verse you handed over to me. 

shlokasyaasyaayam abhipraayaH. yataH, yena kaaraNena, doSha AgataH, [tata eva nivartate =] tenaiva nimittena tasya doShasya, shaantiH (nivRuttiH) kartuM yujyate.

It is only justifiable that the blunder commited by anybody, is remedied by the same person responsible for it. In other words, the person responsible for any blunder (doSha) is find remedy for the same. (should not be tossed to other for remedying it.) This seems apparently the purport. We have to get the person responsible, to do the remedy for the errors. (and not anyone else). 

The second half gives the example well founded on the treatment of burning with minor injuries, as explained by my friend. I could not re-type whole of his explanation. But just re-type only related portion (if you can read the devanagari font, you can read it yourself). 

agnidagdhasya kasyacit puruShasya visphoTasya  = agninimittajaatasya budbudavad dRushyamaanasya sphoTasya, shaantish = cikitsA, dhruvam agninaiva = agnikarmaNaiva, kriyate. agnikarma nAma agninA dAhaH. ............ karmaitad bahuShu vyAdhiShu ciktsArUpeNa nirdiShTam asti. yaadRucChikadagdheShu tuttha-dagdham ityavasthA kAcidasti, .... tutthasya agnipratapanaM kAryam uShNaM ca bheShajam" iti

It seems burning in the case of skin burning, is the treatment prescribed.

Since he had to attend his "cikitsAlaya" he could attend to our "vicikitsA-laya" of the verse sent to his "cikitsAlaya" for treatment, he could not reply earlier. Hence the delay. We have to thank this friend for his expert advice on the point. 

The example in the other verse, "karNakoTaragataM vAri vAriNaivAvakRuShyate" is simple experience in every day life. If water crept inside the ear, it pains for a while. But if we are in water, diving inside the water, forcefully opens ear drum and extracts the little water crept inside. It is the experience during swimming in a pool generally. But he could not defend such a treatment according to Vaidya texts.

कर्णकोटरगतस्य जलस्य प्रभूतजलप्रवाहैण बहिरपहरणं प्रायशः क्रियते लोके । चिकित्साशास्त्रे तादृशं किमपि न मया दृष्टम् ।

karNakoTaragatasya jalasya prabhUtajalapravAheNa bahirapaharaNaM prAyashaH kriyate loke.  cikitsAshAstre tAdRushaM kimapi na mayA dRuShTam.

Hope this explains both the examples in the previous verse, and the present one you have forwarded. I wish you would be able to read Devanagari fonts. Sorry for the delay.

[Sampath Kannan]

namaskArAH Could this be some kind of cauterization ? Could the phenomenon be something akin to 'Similia Similibus Curantur' of Homoeopathy ? Kannan Bangalore

--- On Mon, 2/7/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

--

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

We better term this viṣasya viṣam auṣadham Best DB --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Sampath Kannan <ks_k...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Saroja Bhate]

Dear Kannanji,Yes, it appears to be like cures like. But we need to have corroboration from some text. And, is it really possible?

Sorry, my comp. could not read Dr. HNBhat’s mail

Bhate

 

---

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3427 - Release Date: 02/06/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

Dear Madam, 

I had re-typed the matter relevant to the verse in my recent message in roman letters in the forwarded message. If you were not able to see it, here I again reproduce it: In the forwarded message, he had typed the corroboration with the Ayurvedic texts.

Just I am re-typing the reply I got for the above verse from a a friend of mine. Just discharged from his "vicikitsaalaya" with his expert "cikitsaa" on the "vicikitsaa" on the verse you handed over to me. 

shlokasyaasyaayam abhipraayaH. yataH, yena kaaraNena, doSha AgataH, [tata eva nivartate =] tenaiva nimittena tasya doShasya, shaantiH (nivRuttiH) kartuM yujyate.

It is only justifiable that the blunder commited by anybody, is remedied by the same person responsible for it. In other words, the person responsible for any blunder (doSha) is find remedy for the same. (should not be tossed to other for remedying it.) This seems apparently the purport. We have to get the person responsible, to do the remedy for the errors. (and not anyone else). 

The second half gives the example well founded on the treatment of burning with minor injuries, as explained by my friend. I could not re-type whole of his explanation. But just re-type only related portion (if you can read the devanagari font, you can read it yourself). 

agnidagdhasya kasyacit puruShasya visphoTasya  = agninimittajaatasya budbudavad dRushyamaanasya sphoTasya, shaantish = cikitsA, dhruvam agninaiva = agnikarmaNaiva, kriyate. agnikarma nAma agninA dAhaH. ............ karmaitad bahuShu vyAdhiShu ciktsArUpeNa nirdiShTam asti. yaadRucChikadagdheShu tuttha-dagdham ityavasthA kAcidasti, .... tutthasya agnipratapanaM kAryam uShNaM ca bheShajam" iti

It seems burning in the case of skin burning, is the treatment prescribed.

Since he had to attend his "cikitsAlaya" he could attend to our "vicikitsA-laya" of the verse sent to his "cikitsAlaya" for treatment, he could not reply earlier. Hence the delay. We have to thank this friend for his expert advice on the point. 

The example in the other verse, "karNakoTaragataM vAri vAriNaivAvakRuShyate" is simple experience in every day life. If water crept inside the ear, it pains for a while. But if we are in water, diving inside the water, forcefully opens ear drum and extracts the little water crept inside. It is the experience during swimming in a pool generally. But he could not defend such a treatment according to Vaidya texts.

कर्णकोटरगतस्य जलस्य प्रभूतजलप्रवाहैण बहिरपहरणं प्रायशः क्रियते लोके । चिकित्साशास्त्रे तादृशं किमपि न मया दृष्टम् ।

karNakoTaragatasya jalasya prabhUtajalapravAheNa bahirapaharaNaM prAyashaH kriyate loke.  cikitsAshAstre tAdRushaM kimapi na mayA dRuShTam.

Hope this explains both the examples in the previous verse, and the present one you have forwarded. I wish you would be able to read Devanagari fonts. Sorry for the delay.

With regards

2011/2/8 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>

--

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[hnbhat B.R.]

2011/2/7 hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

[S P Narang]

Regards, even today in general life, people give a very slow warming to heal the burn ( it is not necessary in the Sastra). Some local people in the mountains give the remedy of snow if the blood is disturbed by snow. It is in accordance with homeopathy principle. spnarang

---

From: Sampath Kannan <ks_k...@yahoo.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 6:21:55 AM

[Saroja Bhate]

Namaskaaraah. Lakshavaaram anugrheetaasmi.

I am very happy to read your long mail Dr. Bhatji. Now the explanation comes from the aurhority and is therefore acceptable.Thank you Dr. Narang for your comment. Since my doubts are getting cleared I feel more and more tempted to place before the scholars my difficulties. Uktam ca, kaavyashastravinodena…. iti!

Please tell me which is the sixth in the following:

arthaagamo nityamarogitaa ca priyaa ca bhaaryaa priyavaadinee ca/

vashyashca putro’rthakaree ca vidyaa SaDjeevalokasya sukhaani raajan//

Is priyaa to be  separated from priyavaadinee bhaaryaa to make the number 6?

Please also help in understanding the exact meaning of the following wellknown verse

yashodhigantum sukhalipsayaa vaa manushyasamkhyaamativartitum vaa/

nirutsukaanaamabhiyogabhaajaam samutsukevaaNkamupaiti siddhih//

Dhannyaasmi

Bhate

 

---

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:15 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

Dear Madam, 

 

I had re-typed the matter relevant to the verse in my recent message in roman letters in the forwarded message. If you were not able to see it, here I again reproduce it: In the forwarded message, he had typed the corroboration with the Ayurvedic texts.

 

Just I am re-typing the reply I got for the above verse from a a friend of mine. Just discharged from his "vicikitsaalaya" with his expert "cikitsaa" on the "vicikitsaa" on the verse you handed over to me. 

 

shlokasyaasyaayam abhipraayaH. yataH, yena kaaraNena, doSha AgataH, [tata eva nivartate =] tenaiva nimittena tasya doShasya, shaantiH (nivRuttiH) kartuM yujyate.

 

It is only justifiable that the blunder commited by anybody, is remedied by the same person responsible for it. In other words, the person responsible for any blunder (doSha) is find remedy for the same. (should not be tossed to other for remedying it.) This seems apparently the purport. We have to get the person responsible, to do the remedy for the errors. (and not anyone else). 

 

The second half gives the example well founded on the treatment of burning with minor injuries, as explained by my friend. I could not re-type whole of his explanation. But just re-type only related portion (if you can read the devanagari font, you can read it yourself). 

 

agnidagdhasya kasyacit puruShasya visphoTasya  = agninimittajaatasya budbudavad dRushyamaanasya sphoTasya, shaantish = cikitsA, dhruvam agninaiva = agnikarmaNaiva, kriyate. agnikarma nAma agninA dAhaH. ............ karmaitad bahuShu vyAdhiShu ciktsArUpeNa nirdiShTam asti. yaadRucChikadagdheShu tuttha-dagdham ityavasthA kAcidasti, .... tutthasya agnipratapanaM kAryam uShNaM ca bheShajam" iti

 

It seems burning in the case of skin burning, is the treatment prescribed.

 

Since he had to attend his "cikitsAlaya" he could attend to our "vicikitsA-laya" of the verse sent to his "cikitsAlaya" for treatment, he could not reply earlier. Hence the delay. We have to thank this friend for his expert advice on the point. 

 

The example in the other verse, "karNakoTaragataM vAri vAriNaivAvakRuShyate" is simple experience in every day life. If water crept inside the ear, it pains for a while. But if we are in water, diving inside the water, forcefully opens ear drum and extracts the little water crept inside. It is the experience during swimming in a pool generally. But he could not defend such a treatment according to Vaidya texts.

 

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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3429 - Release Date: 02/07/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

2011/2/9 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>

Namaskaaraah. Lakshavaaram anugrheetaasmi.

I am very happy to read your long mail Dr. Bhatji. Now the explanation comes from the aurhority and is therefore acceptable.Thank you Dr. Narang for your comment. Since my doubts are getting cleared I feel more and more tempted to place before the scholars my difficulties. Uktam ca, kaavyashastravinodena…. iti!

Please tell me which is the sixth in the following:

arthaagamo nityamarogitaa ca priyaa ca bhaaryaa priyavaadinee ca/

vashyashca putro’rthakaree ca vidyaa SaDjeevalokasya sukhaani raajan//

Is priyaa to be  separated from priyavaadinee bhaaryaa to make the number 6?

Please also help in understanding the exact meaning of the following wellknown verse

yashodhigantum sukhalipsayaa vaa manushyasamkhyaamativartitum vaa/

nirutsukaanaamabhiyogabhaajaam samutsukevaaNkamupaiti siddhih//

Dhannyaasmi

Bhate

Thank you for tossing two more verses for scrutiny. For the first is not so simple, as it seems to be liable to different sets of syntactical relations, but the number of the plural form of noun sukhAni only need to be corresponding to six.  sukhAni = sukhapradaani, sukhakaaraNaani. Only the realtion they can be related to a single person or every person. (as the case may be interpreted). All are six causes for happiness. The other relations intermediary may be mutually related or not unless there is any specific reason to deny such interpretation on grammatical grounds. It is preferable that the first two sets are related to a single person and probable the third one too. 

Even though there is constant source of income, if the health is not constant (health is wealth is the modern proverb relating both) and naturally both are expected to be related to the same person. The next too priyA ca bhAryA, priyavAdinI ca too by its disposition relate to the same bhArya(wife) who is dear to one and sweet in speech. (which may rarely coincide). Then remains the last set vashyash ca putro {a}rthakarI ca vidyA = obedient son and money earning learning (may be related to the son himself, as the first already has nityam arthAgama constant source of income. by which this additional qualification may be a repetition if referring to the same person). Now remains their relation to a person in all these causes of happiness coincide (by chance) or independently be taken as applied to different persons (in which case there is no mutual relationship between the all causes needed). This verse is from ViduranIti in the Udyogaparva of Mahabharata. In the chapter, there is an emphasis is seen on the numbers one to 10 enumerating merits, demerits, etc. This is one of the groups comprising of six members of sukha-s. Now it is left to you and other members whether priyaa is to be detached its relation with the common substantive noun (which is absent in other pairs) or not. In both ways too it can be defended. IF you separate priyA from bhAryA, the priyavAdinI bhAryA is a separate cause, than priyA (lover). In modern culture, girl friend and life partners are different (just joking) and there is no guarantee that one will get a life partner a girl he had loved. 

 

The second is a verse from Bharavi's KiratarjunIya 3.40 the depth of sense is synonym with his poem. "bhAraver arthagauram." 

yasho 'dhigantum sukhalipsayaa vaa manushyasamkhyaamativartitum vaa/

nirutsukaanaamabhiyogabhaajaam samutsukevaaNkamupaiti siddhih//

Literally, abhiyoga = constant  effort emphasised, without worrying about the result (nirutsuka) (=persistently continued till the success is achieved) in short. The words are spoken by Draupadi to Arjuna, who was worried about his separation with her. With this background, the verse has to be understood and interpreted. The literal meaning of the phrases are not posing much difficulty in understanding individually. But their mutual syntactical relation makes it little more difficult. All the gerundive phrases in the first half are directly related with the abhiyoga = energetic effort (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988) which again is to be related with nirutsuka free from anxiety. So, the first half of the predication goes like this:

Those who are engaged in constant energetic effort (abhiyogabhaajaam) in no way worried about any thing (than the target or/ without being daunted by the anxiety about the success)  (nirutsukaanaam) either in their endeavor to achieve glory, or aspiring after happiness or to become outstanding  among the fellow men (manuShya-saMkhyAm = manuShyagaNanaam, ativartitum = to become prominent in the total population. saMkhyA = gaNanaa ) (excel the glories of all other men = khyA = prakathane; saMkhyAnam = saNkhyA, samyak khyAnam  prasiddhiH),  will certainly have the success (siddhi) in their laps (aNka) like a girl fallen in deep love (or it may be wife or lover) will approach her lover by herself (even though he is not showing any interest in her) (samutsukA = anuraktA kAntA, iva). This state of nAyikA is called abhisarArikA  in rhetorics. 

samutsukA iva siddhiH a~nkam upaiti gives the analogy beautifully by saMasokti  with the same words interpreted accordingly with the upmAna and umameya sentences. nirutsukAnAm aNkam samutsukA (anuraktA kAntA) iva upasarpati. "utsa^Ngacihnayor a^kaH" (the word a~nka is used in the sense of utsa~nga, which may mean lap and embrace (kroDa)). In short, the idea is that  energetic effort without anxiety (about the success) will certainly yield success (achievement of the goal is due to constant energetic effort). This is the short of the idea in the verse, I can give. More can be culled out of it as you scrutinize more of it. This interpretation I got from the lexicons available to me and not depending on the English Dictionaries. (I only noticed today that they miss many of the shades of meaning offered by the lexicons in Sanskrit. Possibly I might have missed casually by overlooking.).

Sorry for the reply became lengthy. Hope the members would pardon me.

Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.

EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

[Saroja Bhate]

Punarekavaaram lakSaadhikam vaaram upakrtaasmi All doubts cleared.. Well ,there may be different opinions about six.  I like yours’

Bhaaraverarthagouravam wasn’t easy to crack  though the saara could be grasped with less difficulty. Thanks also for the reference

May I toss one more?;

Apaayasandarshanajaam vipattim upaayasandarshanajaam ca siddhim/

medhaavino neetividhiprayuktaam purahsphuranteemiva darshayanti//

I vaguely understand neetividhiprayuktaam. Will you please throw more light?

Dhanyaasmi

Bhate..

 

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From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 09:10 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

2011/2/9 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>

EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

--

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??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3431 - Release Date: 02/08/11 19:34:00

[Sampath Kannan]

Respected Madam, The verse is hitopades'a 2.62. Are we to read an avagraha before nIti ? Kannan Bangalore

--- On Thu, 2/10/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

--

[Saroja Bhate]

Kannan ji

Your last mail was deleted from my Comp. will you please send it again?

 

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From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sampath Kannan

Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 06:22 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3427 - Release Date: 02/06/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

Dear Madam,

He had just asked whether we could put a "avagraha" to prashlesha before [a]nIti-vidhi-prayuktAm. He had given the source as Hitopadesha 2.25. I am reproducing his message itself:

 Respected Madam,

 The verse is hitopades'a 2.62.

 Are we to read an avagraha before nIti ?

 Kannan

 Bangalore

I too didn't get any idea. Better the text of Hitopadesa with commentary be consulted. I found the source as given in SubhAShitaratna-bhaNDAgAra as from Pancatantra 1.70. Better to consult the text with a commentary. I could not find time to get Pancatantra text with a Sankrit commentary from our Library. I will do so as early as possible.

It doesn't seem so simple

[hnbhat B.R.]

Dear Madam,

I Prof. Kannan was correct in assuming the insertion of "avagraha" sign which is optional by virture of which it can be interpreted in both ways (without "avagra" sign) and the source is confirmed as Hitopadesha 2.62.

The second half is to be split with and without "prashleSha" and related with the first assertion and the next assertion respectively. And then, the intended sense is automatically derived from the verse. Just reproducing the interpretation of the commentary thereon:

mEdhAvinaH = wise-men, vipattim = (kaaryanaasham)  he failure of the endeavor, anIti-vidhi-prayuktAm = nIti-vidhinA vinA prauktAm, caused by applying the improper  means (to achieve the goal),  apAya-samdarshana-jAm  (produced in advance by the sight of the impediments = apAya-sandarshana) puraH sphurantIm iva darshayanti = will present a vivid picture of it (the failure) well in advance. In the same way, nIti-vidhi-prayuktAm siddhim = the success due to the proper application of the means (to achieve the end), upAya-darshanajAm = (produced in advance by the sight of the means or tools) puraH sphurantIm iva darshayanti ca = need not a translation again.).

In short wisemen are able to predict clearly the failure or success of any endeavor at the sight of the means or the impediments (depending on whether you follow the proper method or not) in advance.

Hope this has made the issue clear to be related with and without prashlesha of a+ before anIti.

With regards

2011/2/11 hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

[Saroja Bhate]

Kannanji,I don’t see any avagraha in the printed text. Would it make any sense?

Please neglect my previous mail I could trace your mail.

Bhate

 

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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3433 - Release Date: 02/09/11 19:34:00

[hnbhat B.R.]

2011/2/12 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>

Kannanji,I don’t see any avagraha in the printed text. Would it make any sense?

Please neglect my previous mail I could trace your mail.

Bhate

 

Dear madam,

I think you have not read my second mail completely.

It has to be interpreted in both ways by shleSha and hence the print doesn't show the "avagraha" as it would bar one of the interpretations. Only by :shleSha" even without the sign, one can interpret in both ways. If "avagraha" sign appears it bars the other interpretation naturally. Thats why the editors haven't put the "avagraha" sign intentionally.

Please go through my mail if available. If not I will forward the same again.

With regards

--

[Saroja Bhate]

Thanks very much. I too will check Hitopadesha

Regards

Bhate.

 

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From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.

Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

--

?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3435 - Release Date: 02/10/11 19:34:00

[Saroja Bhate]

Dr.s Bhatji and Kannanji

Back to the verse:

Pancatantra  Subodhinee 1.65 says:

Medhaavinah…..neetiguNaprayuktaam, neetirucito vyavahaarah sa eva guNastena prayuktaamanuSThitaam apaayasandarshanajaamapaayo durupayogastasya samdarshanaat jaataamarthaadanumitaamvipattim… upaayasandarshanajaam, upaayah soopayogah Saadgunyaroopah tatsandarshanaajjatam ca siddhim laabharoopaam purahsphuranteem agre spaSTam bhaasamaanaamaayaanteem iva darshayanti.

I think now it is clear.Here are two more for your consideration: karoti no’sheshajanaatiriktaam sambhaavanaamarthavateem kriyaabhih/ samsatsu jaate puruSaadhikaare na pooraNee tam samupaiti samkhyaa//  narasya cihnam narakaagatasya virodhitaa bandhujaneSu nityam/ sarogataa neecagateSu sevaa hyateeva doSah kaTukaa ca vaaNee//

Dhanyavaadaah

Bhate

 

 

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From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 09:29 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} request for meaning

 

2011/2/12 Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net>

--

?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3435 - Release Date: 02/12/11 07:34:00

[Sampath Kannan]

karoti no... is kirAtArjunIya 3.51

--- On Wed, 2/16/11, Saroja Bhate <sar...@bhates.net> wrote:

--

[Saroja Bhate]

Thanks I will check Kiraata

Bhate.

 

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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3446 - Release Date: 02/15/11 20:20:00