Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्पर िषत्} Image worship in Veda

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Hnbhat B.R.

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Jun 13, 2013, 10:22:10 PM6/13/13
to Dipak Bhattacharya, sunil bhattacharjya, subodh kumar, BHARATIYA VIDVAT
Here is the relevant discussion of what is called Veda in Mimamsa-bhatta-diipika:

नहि द्वित्रिवाक्याध्ययनेन पारायणादिविध्यर्थमनुष्ठितं मन्यन्ते, अतो मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोः वेदनामधेयमितिवचनाच्च तावत्समुदायात्मकग्रन्थवृत्ति वेदत्वमित्यर्थः । 


यत्तु अङ्गानां वेदत्वस्मरणं, तदेकग्रहणादेव पूर्वपक्षत्वप्रतीतेः "मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोः वेदनामधेयमि"त्यत्रैकग्रहणाभावेन सिद्धान्तत्वप्रतीतेः असन्मूलकमित्याह एकग्रहणात्त्विति । । 




On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not recognizing the Brāhmaṇas as Veda is an Arya Samaji tenet and practice unknown to Indian tradition at  least since Patañjali who recommends sarahsya Vedic study that includes the Upanişads.  The Śaunakīya Atharvaveda Saṃhitā respectfully utters the name jyeṣṭháṃ (yé) brāhmaṇaṃ (vidús) (vs.10.7.17) ‘higher Brāhmaṇa’ meaning the Upanişads. (see p.xxi Introd. Vol.3 Paippalāda-Saṃhitā,2011) That means recognition as authority by the Saṃhitā itself. ‘Derecognition’ against so ancient a tradition is unacceptable.
DB

From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: subodh kumar <subod...@gmail.com>
Cc: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com>; BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 13 June 2013 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Image worship in Veda

Do you mean to say that the Upanishads are not part of Veda. Also will you then call the Brihadranyaka Upanishad as not belonging to the Shukla Yajur Veda?


On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:30 PM, subodh kumar <subod...@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Starting issue is there image worship in Vedas ?
Strictly speaking Vedas comprise of  four samhitas ; Rig Ved, YajurVed, Atharv Ved  and SamVed.
2. Opinions differ on this subject. Vedic literature is very vast; Scholar according to their disposition consider Vedic term to be inclusive of Brahmans, Aranyaks,  Aitreya Samhita, Taitreya Samhita, Upanishads, Dharm shastras, large number of Sutras,a large number of smrities  and Ramayan, Bhagvad Geeta, Mahabharat, Purans and so on. 
But on one thing all agree that finality lies with 4 vedas.
3. Strength and beauty of Vedic Sanatan dharm is that it allows an individual to choose his path, and does not lay down dogmatic dictats . . 

Subodh Kumar,
C-61 Ramprasth,
Ghaziabad-201011
Mobile-9810612898
Maharshi Dayanand Gosamwardhan Kendra , Delhi-96
Science is belief in the ignorance of Experts- Richard Feynmann 


On 13 June 2013 09:19, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please go through my reply. I gave the names of three well-known authors. These are so well discussed matter that repeating them about hundred years or more after they had been adduced might look unnecessary to scholars. I add the names of Winternitz and Macdonell. But unlike those by Deussen, Hume or Radhakrishnan their accounts are of popular nature.
Best
DB


From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com>
Cc: subodh kumar <subod...@gmail.com>; BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:47 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Image worship in Veda

I agree that all the Upanishads could not have been written at the same time, particularly when the Chandogya Upanishad has mentioned Devaki-putra. However the following questions arise:

(i) Has anybody established the order of antiquity of the Upanishads and if so on what basis?

(ii)  Has anybody done any linguistic study on the different Upanishads to trace their antiquities.

It appears that the western scholars could not even understand the text of the Darshana Upanishad properly. Eminent Sanskrit scholar Prof. Jean Varenne could not translate the end portions of the 6th chapter of the Darshana upanishad and said that the final stanzas of this khanda are too corrupt for adequate translation. When he came to the end stanzas of the 7th chapter he wrote "Again there are a number of very corrupt stanzas".  Such sweeping unsubstantiated statements are unbecoming of any reputed scholar.

Regards,
Sunil KB




On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Accepted tradition is a vague term. The MuktikaUpanishad itself is post-Vedic. See Radhakrishnan/Deussen/R.E.Hume for the distinction between the earlier major and later minor upanishads. Any standard book on the history of Vedic literature will do.
DB


From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: subodh kumar <subod...@gmail.com>
Cc: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com>; BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2013 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Image worship in Veda

I think such a statement appears to contradict quite a few accepted traditions.

Firstly the Darshana Upanishad is one of the 108 canonical upanishads, listed in the Muktika upanishad, which also lists the ten major Upanishads.

Secondly the Darshana Upanishad belongs to the Sama veda. Has anybody carried out any research and fimrly established which are the authentic Upanishads in the Sama veda and which are the spurious ones, if there are any?

Thirdly the Upanishads and the Aranyakas constitute the Vedanta whereas the Samhitas and Brahmanas constitute the Veda, if we accept Sayana's classification.  From the  Mundaka Upanishad we know that the Vedanta teaches the Para (obviously means the higher) Vidya whereas the Vedas teach the Apara Vidya. Further the Bhagavad Gita also calls the Vedas as Traigunyavishayaa. That is why it appears that  the same status should be accorded to both the Vedas and the Upanishads, if not higher status to the Upanishads.

Fourthly the Smritis do not deserve the same status as the Veda as it is given that when there is conflict between the views of Smriti and that of the Veda one should accept what is said in the Veda.

Regards,
Sunil KB


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:35 PM, subodh kumar <subod...@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree With Dipak ji's assertion. 
Strictly speaking Vedas only are to taken as Shrutis.
All Upanishad, Aranyak ,Brahmans and Smritis  do not have the same status as Vedas for considerations of finality. 

Subodh Kumar,
C-61 Ramprasth,
Ghaziabad-201011
Mobile-9810612898
Maharshi Dayanand Gosamwardhan Kendra , Delhi-96
Science is belief in the ignorance of Experts- Richard Feynmann 


On 12 June 2013 08:47, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The दर्शनोपनिषत् is a medieval Upanishad. It is unscientific to assign to it the same authority as to the major Upanishads commented upon by Shankara. Even Shankara who made a commentary on the Maanduukya did not regard it as sruti but just mentioned it as a prakarana. The Vishishtaadvaitas too seem to regard the Maanduukya just as a smriti not a sruti. It is necessary not to get swayed by the name Upanishad popularly tagged to a late text and then cite that as a Vedic authority without applying the necessary discretion. That creates a wrong idea about the Vedas.
Best
DB  


From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2013 5:06 AM
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Image worship in Veda

Dear friends,

There is another reference to Pratima  in a Upanishad.  The relevant verse is as follows:

शिवमात्मनि पश्यन्ति प्रतिमासु न योगिनः /
अज्ञानां भावनार्थाय प्रतिमाः परिकल्पिताः // दर्शनोपनिषत् : ४.५९ //

This meassage is somewhat similar to what Lord Krishna told us in the Uttara Gita.


Regards,
Sunil KB
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Research Scholar(Retd),
Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
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