Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin metal (<6mm).
Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making this saw:
It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in means we have more money in the bank!
If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once i've re-organised the sheet material.
Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional
funds that have appeared...
Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club if
we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the money
comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club member.
I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have access to
the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools already (for
free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects... yet I get
that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member, I have
zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from me,
when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money towards in
the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel that
since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it has
been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the
opinion first of the members.
Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my
personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have
in fact offended anybody.
- Justin
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They
> are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to
> cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a
> hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin
> metal (<6mm).
> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making
> this saw:
> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're
> the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going
> strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in
> means we have more money in the bank!
> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem
> with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll
> detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once
> i've re-organised the sheet material.
> Cheers,
> Mike
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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I'm not exactly sure what you're concerned about - if directors want to
contribute their own money and then buy stuff, what's the problem? And from
what I can tell they seem to ask for opinions before making any major
decision, this mail from Mike being no exception.
Being a director of the club is a responsibility and there is a lot of work
involved with it, in fact the organisation won't exist without them, and we
should make sure they feel appreciated.
Or is it that you're owed money? If so then that should probably come out
of membership fees, it seems a bit unfair that individuals donate money
only to pay other individuals back, right?
Anyway, I get the sense that you're annoyed about something but I'm not
exactly sure what - perhaps there's more to it than I know about. And
likewise, I don't mean to offend either :)
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional
> funds that have appeared...
> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club
> if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the
> money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club
> member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have
> access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools
> already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects...
> yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member,
> I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from
> me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money
> towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel
> that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it
> has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the
> opinion first of the members.
> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my
> personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have
> in fact offended anybody.
> - Justin
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They
>> are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to
>> cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a
>> hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin
>> metal (<6mm).
>> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making
>> this saw:
>> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
>> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're
>> the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going
>> strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in
>> means we have more money in the bank!
>> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
>> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem
>> with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll
>> detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once
>> i've re-organised the sheet material.
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very clear, but to reiterate:
Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that unfortunately.
Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the spaces ability to do crafts.
Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on, so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a straight donation.
I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions, but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the last three years:
* get excited about a tool, * ask the list about it,
* wait for comments
* buy it if it's ok.
Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* - it's not a done deal yet.
As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those according to the wiki.
On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional funds that have appeared...
> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects... yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member, I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the opinion first of the members.
> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have in fact offended anybody.
> - Justin
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin metal (<6mm).
> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making this saw:
> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in means we have more money in the bank!
> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once i've re-organised the sheet material.
> Cheers,
> Mike
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very clear, but to reiterate:
> Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that unfortunately.
> Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
> I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
> I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
> Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the spaces ability to do crafts.
> Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on, so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
> Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a straight donation.
> I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions, but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the last three years:
> * get excited about a tool, > * ask the list about it,
> * wait for comments
> * buy it if it's ok.
> Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* - it's not a done deal yet.
> As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those according to the wiki.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional funds that have appeared...
>> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects... yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member, I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
>> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the opinion first of the members.
>> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have in fact offended anybody.
>> - Justin
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin metal (<6mm).
>> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making this saw:
>> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
>> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in means we have more money in the bank!
>> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
>> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once i've re-organised the sheet material.
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
I don't have time to go over all the details right now, however you seemed
to miss the main point of my email (which is also the voice of other
members who were too scared to say something in public). None of this was
about money, and clearly my email was read in the offensive tone as you
both seemed to have jumped to the defensive tone in reply, nothing has made
me angry, I simply decided it was time to voice up what a number of members
(including myself) would not say in public. As for the pledge, you seem to
have forgotten about a certain 3D printer, which although still does not
work, was a pledge drive.
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Matt was also given a £250 maker grant for the Roboxylo project, which he
> donated. Hence 'Matt's BMMF money'.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:01, Mike Pountney <mike.pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very
> clear, but to reiterate:
> Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the
> organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to
> the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that
> unfortunately.
> Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have
> donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank
> account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can
> have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of
> stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
> I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated
> near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
> I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop
> infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the
> mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air
> compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
> Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the
> spaces ability to do crafts.
> Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on,
> so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
> Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a straight
> donation.
> I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions,
> but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the
> last three years:
> * get excited about a tool,
> * ask the list about it,
> * wait for comments
> * buy it if it's ok.
> Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous
> occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* -
> it's not a done deal yet.
> As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and
> lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those
> according to the wiki.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional
> funds that have appeared...
> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club
> if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the
> money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club
> member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have
> access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools
> already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects...
> yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member,
> I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from
> me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money
> towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel
> that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it
> has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the
> opinion first of the members.
> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my
> personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have
> in fact offended anybody.
> - Justin
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They
>> are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to
>> cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a
>> hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin
>> metal (<6mm).
>> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making
>> this saw:
>> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
>> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're
>> the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going
>> strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in
>> means we have more money in the bank!
>> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
>> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem
>> with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll
>> detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once
>> i've re-organised the sheet material.
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
I didn't mean to sound defensive, I just don't quite understand what the
problem is. That you are afraid to speak up with your opinion? Other
members are too scared?
I've seen nothing to suggest that directors aren't happy to hear what
members think, and they seem pretty friendly and unscary to me!
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't have time to go over all the details right now, however you seemed
> to miss the main point of my email (which is also the voice of other
> members who were too scared to say something in public). None of this was
> about money, and clearly my email was read in the offensive tone as you
> both seemed to have jumped to the defensive tone in reply, nothing has made
> me angry, I simply decided it was time to voice up what a number of members
> (including myself) would not say in public. As for the pledge, you seem to
> have forgotten about a certain 3D printer, which although still does not
> work, was a pledge drive.
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Oh, also:
>> Matt was also given a £250 maker grant for the Roboxylo project, which he
>> donated. Hence 'Matt's BMMF money'.
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:01, Mike Pountney <mike.pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very
>> clear, but to reiterate:
>> Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the
>> organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to
>> the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that
>> unfortunately.
>> Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have
>> donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank
>> account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can
>> have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of
>> stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
>> I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated
>> near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
>> I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop
>> infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the
>> mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air
>> compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
>> Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the
>> spaces ability to do crafts.
>> Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on,
>> so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
>> Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a
>> straight donation.
>> I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions,
>> but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the
>> last three years:
>> * get excited about a tool,
>> * ask the list about it,
>> * wait for comments
>> * buy it if it's ok.
>> Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous
>> occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* -
>> it's not a done deal yet.
>> As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and
>> lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those
>> according to the wiki.
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional
>> funds that have appeared...
>> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club
>> if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the
>> money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club
>> member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have
>> access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools
>> already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects...
>> yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member,
>> I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from
>> me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money
>> towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
>> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel
>> that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it
>> has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the
>> opinion first of the members.
>> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing
>> my personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I
>> have in fact offended anybody.
>> - Justin
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They
>>> are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to
>>> cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a
>>> hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin
>>> metal (<6mm).
>>> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT,
>>> making this saw:
>>> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very
>>> versatile.
>>> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since
>>> we're the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop
>>> going strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal,
>>> chipping in means we have more money in the bank!
>>> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
>>> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem
>>> with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll
>>> detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once
>>> i've re-organised the sheet material.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mike
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>> brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
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>>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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>> --
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On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:11, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't have time to go over all the details right now, however you seemed to miss the main point of my email (which is also the voice of other members who were too scared to say something in public). None of this was about money, and clearly my email was read in the offensive tone as you both seemed to have jumped to the defensive tone in reply, nothing has made me angry, I simply decided it was time to voice up what a number of members (including myself) would not say in public. As for the pledge, you seem to have forgotten about a certain 3D printer, which although still does not work, was a pledge drive.
Ah yes, I have. That one isn't in the wiki. Toby looked after that, i'll let him answer your question on it.
I don't have much to add to the points that have already been made, but I would like to take the opportunity to voice my support for current directors.
I personally like Mike's proactive approach to decision-making and I am always confident that I could assert my opinion easily and without fear of derision if I disagreed with anything he or the other directors were proposing for the space.
The directors and other key members of the space have contributed countless hours of their time and lots of their own money to creating what I feel is a very impressive and well appointed workspace.
It may be that you and other members have some personal complaint with how things are being run and I would not want to make you feel that you are unable to express that, which you have. However, by that same merit, I would like to express that I disagree with your sentiment and I think your points are unfair.
On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 at 15:01:30, Mike Pountney wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very clear, but to reiterate:
> Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that unfortunately.
> Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
> I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
> I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
> Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the spaces ability to do crafts.
> Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on, so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
> Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a straight donation.
> I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions, but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the last three years:
> * get excited about a tool,
> * ask the list about it,
> * wait for comments
> * buy it if it's ok.
> Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* - it's not a done deal yet.
> As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those according to the wiki.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com (mailto:dogbertuk2...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional funds that have appeared...
> > Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects... yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member, I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
> > It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the opinion first of the members.
> > Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have in fact offended anybody.
> > - Justin
> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com (mailto:Mike.Pount...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin metal (<6mm).
> > > Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making this saw:
> > > It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
> > > Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in means we have more money in the bank!
> > > If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
> > > For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once i've re-organised the sheet material.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mike
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
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I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools to
the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in this
case it's been explained as a personal donation).
Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do think
that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable
contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and
Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound
like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning
lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has to
be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space
(especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike
has done here) to allow for feedback.
Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably
won't be much use to me personally :)
Em
On 17 October 2012 15:19, Tom Warner <thoswar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't have much to add to the points that have already been made, but I
> would like to take the opportunity to voice my support for current
> directors.
> I personally like Mike's proactive approach to decision-making and I am
> always confident that I could assert my opinion easily and without fear of
> derision if I disagreed with anything he or the other directors were
> proposing for the space.
> The directors and other key members of the space have contributed
> countless hours of their time and lots of their own money to creating what
> I feel is a very impressive and well appointed workspace.
> It may be that you and other members have some personal complaint with how
> things are being run and I would not want to make you feel that you are
> unable to express that, which you have. However, by that same merit, I
> would like to express that I disagree with your sentiment and I think your
> points are unfair.
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 at 15:01:30, Mike Pountney wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> I thought that Emma's email has made the details of these funds very
> clear, but to reiterate:
> Through the arts council funding, we were able to pay both makers and the
> organisers of the Maker Faire for their trouble. This didn't extend out to
> the on-the-day volunteers this year, the money was not there to pay that
> unfortunately.
> Many of the organising team: Emma, myself, Natalia, Caley (m'wifey), have
> donated their money to BB. It's been paid directly into the BB bank
> account, but is still technically a donation we've made, and as such can
> have our terms placed on it. We could have just simply bought a bunch of
> stuff, and donated that, if you wish to look at it a different way.
> I've donated approx £700 (in Aug), and £900 (in Sept). Emma has donated
> near on £800, this Sept. Caley and Natalia about £250 each.
> I'd like the money that i've donated to be spent on the workshop
> infrastructure. This has paid for the workbenches, the material for the
> mezzanine, the Evolution saws, the Hitachi drills and drivers, the air
> compressor, and a few other bits and bobs.
> Caley would like her money to be used for something that improves the
> spaces ability to do crafts.
> Emma has asked that her money be spent on general bill-paying and so on,
> so it's going to go into a rainy day fund.
> Natalia hasn't made any requests as yet, so I think that's just a straight
> donation.
> I'm a little concerned that you think that I'm pushing through decisions,
> but so far this is pretty much the way I've worked with the space over the
> last three years:
> * get excited about a tool,
> * ask the list about it,
> * wait for comments
> * buy it if it's ok.
> Sometimes that's involved pledges. I've been a bit overzealous
> occasionally, for sure, but the email below is *asking for objections* -
> it's not a done deal yet.
> As for the money owed to you, can you clarify what that is? The laser and
> lathe pledges are the only ones I know, and you didn't pledge for those
> according to the wiki.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 14:27, Justin Nel <dogbertuk2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I look forward to finding out details about these additional
> funds that have appeared...
> Also, again personally, it no longer (to me) feels like a community/club
> if we are just going out and buying large tools (regardless of where the
> money comes from), and I do not feel involved in any decisions as a club
> member. I now feel much more like I am paying to attend the club and have
> access to the tools when in fact I have access to many of these tools
> already (for free), so in fact I am really paying for the social aspects...
> yet I get that from here on the board (which is also free). So as a member,
> I have zero input on club decisions (unless it's to ask for more money from
> me, when in fact the club still owes me money for things I put money
> towards in the past), and I am merely paying for the privilege.
> It's great having all the extra space of this new workshop, but I feel
> that since we moved that the sense of community has been fading away and it
> has been all about certain directors making decisions and not asking the
> opinion first of the members.
> Not looking to step on any toes, nor cause any problems, simply voicing my
> personal opinion on how I feel about things as of late. Apologies if I have
> in fact offended anybody.
> - Justin
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Matt and I have been lusting after metal-cutting bandsaws of late. They
> are an essential ingredient in any metal-working shop, as they allow us to
> cut bar stock down to size for working on the lathe. Doing this with a
> hacksaw is not feasible, and the Evolution saws are only good for thin
> metal (<6mm).
> Clarke have a deal on tomorrow and Sunday, where they pay the VAT, making
> this saw:
> It cuts many materials btw - wood, metal, plastics - so is very versatile.
> Matt and I are happy to buy this with some of our BMMF money, since we're
> the two most interested in getting the machining side of the workshop going
> strong. Of course if you feel that you'd use it a great deal, chipping in
> means we have more money in the bank!
> If no-one objects, I plan to go pick one of these up on Thursday evening.
> For those concerned about the state of the finances, there is no problem
> with doing this. We're in a very healthy state at the moment, which i'll
> detail in a separate email soon. There's space for it in the workshop, once
> i've re-organised the sheet material.
> Cheers,
> Mike
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
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On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <e...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
> I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
> Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
> My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
> Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably won't be much use to me personally :)
It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
I have only experienced the most kindly atmosphere when i've come down to
the space, and I think its a great place to encourage other imaginative
people to share,
mike (another P)
On Oct 17, 2012 3:43 PM, "Mike Pountney" <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <e...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools
> to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in
> this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do
> think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable
> contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and
> Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound
> like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning
> lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has
> to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space
> (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike
> has done here) to allow for feedback.
> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably
> won't be much use to me personally :)
> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious
> about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop (and
not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one in
there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with work
that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
*Matt*
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <e...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools
> to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in
> this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do
> think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable
> contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and
> Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound
> like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning
> lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has
> to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space
> (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike
> has done here) to allow for feedback.
> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably
> won't be much use to me personally :)
> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious
> about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's in the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class of about 30.
You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to cut all of them.
I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and engineer's square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock rod and it would be within limits of being square. In a short length of time.
For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the time you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and roughly/cleanly (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length on a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a return on the investment.
I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now and in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a vertical manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one. Having a working vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used to cut materials which the laser is not able to.
I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and wouldn't want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid for it so can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within the space but for a example
I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying £150 per year and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX. He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the JAG. The last club before this one I was paying £50 per year and we paid our way by having an archery stand at the school fete.
Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws blades, Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if something is square) also a scribe.
On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop > (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one > in there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with > work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
> *Matt*
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.P...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <em...@ejosullivan.com<javascript:>> >> wrote:
>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of >> tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, >> as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do >> think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable >> contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and >> Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound >> like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning >> lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has >> to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space >> (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike >> has done here) to allow for feedback.
>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably >> won't be much use to me personally :)
>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious >> about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the >> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonh...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
My comment: It is going to be hard to use the lathe without a way of sawing up bar stock. The saw will also be useful for other things - and sawing steel by hand is hard work & time consuming to the extent that it tends to push one in the direction of materials which are easier to work (aluminium etc). This does not always turn out for the best (steel is strong and hard wearing).
I think that the fact that Mike advertised this proposal for comment is an appropriate democratic process. A more formal process is going to be cumbersome. Samuel
Just to highlight - the only tools that are restricted-use at the moment are the lathe and laser.
The laser requirements are well known, though in practise no-one has been paid back from it, and all have donated their initial investment to the space. I still think the £50 charge should remain, it's a good source of income for the space and cements the argument that when it goes wrong that the folk that use it have already paid into the space to get it fixed.
As for the lathe -- keep hassling me about getting training, I'm trying to skill up enough to be able to do this, and also trying to arrange for folk that can give more in-depth tuition to be done on a regular basis: a 'shop skills' weekend workshop perhaps. There will be a £25 charge for the initial induction, to build up a fund for maintenance and additional tooling, as discussed when we originally bought it.
As with all of the other tools though, they are there to be used. They are owned by BuildBrighton, so it's up to us - as a group - to govern their use. Common sense and the ability to recognise your own limits is expected.
I've been watching an amazing series of workshops by the MIT Machine Shop (google it), I heartily recommend them to anyone interested in using any of the machine tools. They really aren't that scary, just need respect and a tiny bit of knowledge re the less obvious ways to hurt yourself.
On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:16, Christopher Hills <orict...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's in the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class of about 30.
> You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to cut all of them.
> I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and engineer's square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock rod and it would be within limits of being square. In a short length of time.
> For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the time you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and roughly/cleanly (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
> Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length on a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a return on the investment.
> I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now and in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a vertical manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one. Having a working vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used to cut materials which the laser is not able to.
> I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and wouldn't want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid for it so can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within the space but for a example
> I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying £150 per year and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX. > He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the JAG. The last club before this one I was paying £50 per year and we paid our way by having an archery stand at the school fete.
> Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws blades, Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if something is square) also a scribe.
> Chris
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
>> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one in there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
>> Matt
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.P...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <em...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
>>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
>>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably won't be much use to me personally :)
>>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to brightonh...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
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Here's the MIT video that covers the band saw. The one he uses is vertical, so doesn't have the same flexibility as the one below, but you hopefully get the idea with it:
> I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's in the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class of about 30.
> You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to cut all of them.
> I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and engineer's square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock rod and it would be within limits of being square. In a short length of time.
> For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the time you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and roughly/cleanly (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
> Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length on a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a return on the investment.
> I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now and in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a vertical manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one. Having a working vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used to cut materials which the laser is not able to.
> I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and wouldn't want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid for it so can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within the space but for a example
> I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying £150 per year and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX. > He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the JAG. The last club before this one I was paying £50 per year and we paid our way by having an archery stand at the school fete.
> Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws blades, Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if something is square) also a scribe.
> Chris
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
>> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one in there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
>> Matt
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.P...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <em...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
>>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
>>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably won't be much use to me personally :)
>>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to brightonh...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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A quick note on the lathe: as far as I know there are still some initial
investors who are owed a repayment for this, and this will be reflected in
the financials.
Em
On 18 October 2012 00:43, Mike Pountney <mike.pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's the MIT video that covers the band saw. The one he uses is
> vertical, so doesn't have the same flexibility as the one below, but you
> hopefully get the idea with it:
> The entire series is *superb* -- 8+9+10 have taught me more about turning
> on the lathe than all the books and other videos combined.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:16, Christopher Hills <orict...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's in
> the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class of about
> 30.
> You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to cut
> all of them.
> I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and engineer's
> square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock rod and it would
> be within limits of being square. In a short length of time.
> For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the time
> you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and roughly/cleanly
> (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
> Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length on
> a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a return on
> the investment.
> I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted
> above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now and
> in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a vertical
> manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one. Having a working
> vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used to cut materials
> which the laser is not able to.
> I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and wouldn't
> want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid for it so
> can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within the space but for
> a example
> I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying £150 per year
> and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX.
> He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the JAG.
> The last club before this one I was paying £50 per year and we paid our way
> by having an archery stand at the school fete.
> Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws blades,
> Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if something is square)
> also a scribe.
> Chris
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
>> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop
>> (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one
>> in there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with
>> work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
>> *Matt*
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.P...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <em...@ejosullivan.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of
>>> tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside,
>>> as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do
>>> think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable
>>> contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and
>>> Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound
>>> like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning
>>> lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has
>>> to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space
>>> (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike
>>> has done here) to allow for feedback.
>>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably
>>> won't be much use to me personally :)
>>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious
>>> about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
>>> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to brightonh...@**googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+**
>>> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>>> .
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
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> Here's the MIT video that covers the band saw. The one he uses is
> vertical, so doesn't have the same flexibility as the one below, but you
> hopefully get the idea with it:
> The entire series is *superb* -- 8+9+10 have taught me more about
> turning on the lathe than all the books and other videos combined.
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:16, Christopher Hills <orict...@gmail.com
> <mailto:orict...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's
>> in the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class
>> of about 30.
>> You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to
>> cut all of them.
>> I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and
>> engineer's square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock
>> rod and it would be within limits of being square. In a short length
>> of time.
>> For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the
>> time you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and
>> roughly/cleanly (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
>> Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length
>> on a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a
>> return on the investment.
>> I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted
>> above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now
>> and in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a
>> vertical manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one.
>> Having a working vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used
>> to cut materials which the laser is not able to.
>> I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and
>> wouldn't want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid
>> for it so can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within
>> the space but for a example
>> I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying 150 per
>> year and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX.
>> He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the
>> JAG. The last club before this one I was paying 50 per year and we
>> paid our way by having an archery stand at the school fete.
>> Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws
>> blades, Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if
>> something is square) also a scribe.
>> Chris
>> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
>> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our
>> workshop (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently
>> have a vertical one in there, but it is both not ours, and broken.
>> I often find myself with work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
>> *Matt*
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney
>> <Mike.P...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan"
>> <em...@ejosullivan.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the
>> addition of tools to the hackspace (queries about where
>> funding is coming from aside, as in this case it's been
>> explained as a personal donation).
>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the
>> workshop, I do think that we should carefully consider which
>> tools would be a valuable contribution before agreeing to
>> bring them into the hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you
>> offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound like it
>> would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a
>> wood-turning lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the
>> space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate
>> equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it
>> past the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow
>> for feedback.
>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as
>> it probably won't be much use to me personally :)
>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be
>> serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
>> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> brightonh...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out >> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com>.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/brightonhackerspace/-/-BlQ4KDVdM0J.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> A quick note on the lathe: as far as I know there are still some initial
> investors who are owed a repayment for this, and this will be reflected in
> the financials.
> Em
> On 18 October 2012 00:43, Mike Pountney <mike.pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's the MIT video that covers the band saw. The one he uses is
>> vertical, so doesn't have the same flexibility as the one below, but you
>> hopefully get the idea with it:
>> The entire series is *superb* -- 8+9+10 have taught me more about turning
>> on the lathe than all the books and other videos combined.
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:16, Christopher Hills <orict...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I remember seeing something like back at the weald school in the 80's in
>> the metalwork shop it was mainly used to cut stock bar for a class of about
>> 30.
>> You still needed to check if the end was square and it took a while to
>> cut all of them.
>> I would believe with a box of hacksaw blades(don't have) and engineer's
>> square (also don't have) you could cut a length off, stock rod and it would
>> be within limits of being square. In a short length of time.
>> For short runs and one offs this machine would be over kill, by the time
>> you set it up you could place the stock bar in the vice and roughly/cleanly
>> (depends how good you are) chopped off the length needed.
>> Maybe if were to advertise we are able to cut rod, bars, etc to length on
>> a large scale lot we could charge for this service thus getting a return on
>> the investment.
>> I'm for getting it for the space, as it could be used in the way noted
>> above and enable us to build bigger and better things in the space now and
>> in the future. Also looking at the description it can be used in a vertical
>> manner and quickly change back so replaces the broken one. Having a working
>> vertical band-saw could be useful as it could be used to cut materials
>> which the laser is not able to.
>> I'm only sorry that I can't afford to paid towards it's cost and wouldn't
>> want a culture to develop in the space of "you haven't paid for it so
>> can't use it" I'm NOT aware there is this culture within the space but for
>> a example
>> I was at an Archery Club in which I was a member and paying £150 per year
>> and the chairman was driving a new Jag SJX.
>> He blamed the school for the high cost, I think it was paying for the
>> JAG. The last club before this one I was paying £50 per year and we paid
>> our way by having an archery stand at the school fete.
>> Mike, maybe while in Machine Mart add to the list, box of hacksaws
>> blades, Engineer's Blue, engineer's square (so able to see if something is
>> square) also a scribe.
>> Chris
>> On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 21:15:46 UTC+1, Matthew Edwards wrote:
>>> I very much agree that a bandsaw is totally essential for our workshop
>>> (and not just for the metal cutting). We do currently have a vertical one
>>> in there, but it is both not ours, and broken. I often find myself with
>>> work that would be perfect for a bandsaw.
>>> *Matt*
>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Mike Pountney <Mike.P...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <em...@ejosullivan.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of
>>>> tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside,
>>>> as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>>>> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do
>>>> think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable
>>>> contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and
>>>> Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound
>>>> like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning
>>>> lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>>>> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space
>>>> has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the
>>>> space (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first
>>>> (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
>>>> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it
>>>> probably won't be much use to me personally :)
>>>> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
>>>> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious
>>>> about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
>>>> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
>>>> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to brightonh...@**googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brightonhackerspace+**
>>>> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>>>> .
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brightonhackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/brightonhackerspace/-/-BlQ4KDVdM0J.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "BuildBrighton - the Brighton Hacker Space" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Gotta say I can see both sides of this debate – I think the bandsaw is a great idea, and Mike and Matt are covering it (Thanks guys!) so this purchase is all sound in my book.
But I hear what Justin says, and I can see how we might do better at making group decisions about these things – we usually do great (Thanks mainly to Mike) with consulting the group over big decisions like running the Maker Faire and moving space. Buying equipment isn’t quite such a big deal but perhaps we could still have a wish list and vote on what to get next when we can... just an idea.
On the flipside, sometimes it does just take someone to “just do it” or nothing gets done if too many people are involved – but if people are getting annoyed (and I thank Justin for raising what I am sure is not only his view) then we should try to learn something from it.
I think every new bit of equipment is good for the space (as long as we don’t run out of..er..space) but a decent projector and screen for workshops would get my vote
From: Mike Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 7:38 PM
To: brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [brighton-hacker-space] Metal-cutting bandsaw for the workshop.
I have only experienced the most kindly atmosphere when i've come down to the space, and I think its a great place to encourage other imaginative people to share, mike (another P)
On Oct 17, 2012 3:43 PM, "Mike Pountney" <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <e...@ejosullivan.com> wrote:
> I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition of tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming from aside, as in this case it's been explained as a personal donation).
>
> Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop, I do think that we should carefully consider which tools would be a valuable contribution before agreeing to bring them into the hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the bandsaw and it does sound like it would have a lot of uses, but so would other tools: a wood-turning lathe for example, which was suggested recently.
>
> My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it past the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
>
> Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it probably won't be much use to me personally :)
It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
--
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Sorry I'm a bit late to this and don't want to prolong what looks like an exhausting discussion topic:
How about a "just do it..... within a week" approach for changes to the space/big tool purchases etc?
Put the proposal out, give people plenty time to respond, then if we've had no major objections go ahead.
I think perhaps the hastiness of the tool and materials purchases has been the problem here, not so much the actual idea of buying them.
What about a wish-list of equipment, which we can purchase as the special offers come up from time-to-time?
We nearly got a wood lathe, because there was one available for cheap - we've a compressor that hasn't really been used but we got for a song, the proposal for this bandsaw was the same - it can look sometimes almost as if the special offers are driving the buying decisions.
Allowing discussion time on important decisions (such as big tool acquisitions) should stop members feeling "alienated" from these decisions, even if it does mean we miss out on a special offer every now and again; and getting a new tool that has the support of a lot of members beforehand means it'll be more warmly received when it finally arrives.
I completely agree with Seb and the others who have written to support Mike et al and to say thanks, but trying to get to the bottom of why there's discontentment - with any member - means trying to understand where they're coming from. It's hard not to take these things personally, but Mike asked for objections to his proposal; when one came in we should have looked at the root cause and addressed it (which, hopefully, we're doing now):
To be fair to Justin, his initial email said he didn't feel he was involved in the decision making process and that's the point to address, instead of us speculating on the cause of his apparent anger(?) or justifying the purchases by identifying where the money had come from. I can see this is taking us off-topic (a discussion now about how we make decisions rather than specifically a bandsaw for the workshop) so maybe we can discuss how we make group decisions in another thread.
> Gotta say I can see both sides of this debate � I think the bandsaw is > a great idea, and Mike and Matt are covering it (Thanks guys!) so this > purchase is all sound in my book.
> But I hear what Justin says, and I can see how we might do better at > making group decisions about these things � we usually do great > (Thanks mainly to Mike) with consulting the group over big decisions > like running the Maker Faire and moving space. Buying equipment isn�t > quite such a big deal but perhaps we could still have a wish list and > vote on what to get next when we can... just an idea.
> On the flipside, sometimes it does just take someone to �just do it� > or nothing gets done if too many people are involved � but if people > are getting annoyed (and I thank Justin for raising what I am sure is > not only his view) then we should try to learn something from it.
> I think every new bit of equipment is good for the space (as long as > we don�t run out of..er..space) but a decent projector and screen for > workshops would get my vote
> *From:* Mike <mailto:mike.penw...@googlemail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 17, 2012 7:38 PM
> *To:* brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com > <mailto:brightonhackerspace@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [brighton-hacker-space] Metal-cutting bandsaw for the > workshop.
> I have only experienced the most kindly atmosphere when i've come down > to the space, and I think its a great place to encourage other > imaginative people to share,
> mike (another P)
> On Oct 17, 2012 3:43 PM, "Mike Pountney" <Mike.Pount...@gmail.com > <mailto:Mike.Pount...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:33, "Emma O'Sullivan" <e...@ejosullivan.com
> <mailto:e...@ejosullivan.com>> wrote:
> > I think Justin raises a very valid point regarding the addition
> of tools to the hackspace (queries about where funding is coming
> from aside, as in this case it's been explained as a personal
> donation).
> > Although at the moment there is available space in the workshop,
> I do think that we should carefully consider which tools would be
> a valuable contribution before agreeing to bring them into the
> hackspace. Mike and Matt, I appreciate you offering to pay for the
> bandsaw and it does sound like it would have a lot of uses, but so
> would other tools: a wood-turning lathe for example, which was
> suggested recently.
> > My point is that, as with all donations, their value for the
> space has to be considered, and that anyone wishing to donate
> equipment to the space (especially large tools) should run it past
> the mailing list first (as Mike has done here) to allow for feedback.
> > Please count this as a neutral vote towards the bandsaw as it
> probably won't be much use to me personally :)
> It would have cut that plastic tubing real easy ;)
> I'd say that this is an essential bit of kit, if we want to be
> serious about being able to use the metalworking lathe.
> The woodworking lathe is a nice to have - we can still use the
> metalworking lathe for this provided we are careful.
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On 18 Oct 2012, at 12:00, "Chris" <chris.hol...@multiedge-net.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry I'm a bit late to this and don't want to prolong what looks like an exhausting discussion topic:
> How about a "just do it..... within a week" approach for changes to the space/big tool purchases etc?
> Put the proposal out, give people plenty time to respond, then if we've had no major objections go ahead.
> I think perhaps the hastiness of the tool and materials purchases has been the problem here, not so much the actual idea of buying them.
I'd rather it wasn't as long as a week - from experience, the longer the delay, the less likely a thing will actually happen. A couple of days should be enough to cover people that are getting the daily digest. By a week an email is buried in an inbox.
Naturally, if a discussion is happening around a topic - as in, it's in an uncertain state - then this will prolong a decision.
In this particular case, i don't yet see any specific objections to the bandsaw, and a few +1's. I would still like to go sort this tonight, as the deal is only on tomorrow and Sunday - and I'm not sure i'll be able to make it there on Sun.
> What about a wish-list of equipment, which we can purchase as the special offers come up from time-to-time?
This is an excellent idea - basically we just get a pre-approved list of tools that we actually want and have decided that we should get when funds are there. It'll help shape what we're trying to do.
Here's the wiki page for this, feel free to add as needed:
> We nearly got a wood lathe, because there was one available for cheap - we've a compressor that hasn't really been used but we got for a song, the proposal for this bandsaw was the same - it can look sometimes almost as if the special offers are driving the buying decisions.
In all honesty, the decision to get a tool has not been driven by special offers or ebay. With all tools that i've sourced for us, there has been a discussion about that tool for several weeks if not months: The metal lathe, the compressor, the welding machine, etc.
What has happened though is that these discussions haven't made it onto the mailing list, and so have only been available to a selection of members. This is bad, of course, and so I think we just need to take the policy of raising each discussion on the list whenever we discuss in person at the space.
The tool wish list wiki page will help with this, I hope.
> Allowing discussion time on important decisions (such as big tool acquisitions) should stop members feeling "alienated" from these decisions, even if it does mean we miss out on a special offer every now and again; and getting a new tool that has the support of a lot of members beforehand means it'll be more warmly received when it finally arrives.
totally agree.
> I completely agree with Seb and the others who have written to support Mike et al and to say thanks, but trying to get to the bottom of why there's discontentment - with any member - means trying to understand where they're coming from. It's hard not to take these things personally, but Mike asked for objections to his proposal; when one came in we should have looked at the root cause and addressed it (which, hopefully, we're doing now):
I did read Justin's email as not objecting to the proposal, just raising concerns about how decisions are made. I've not taken it as a -1 for the bandsaw :)
> To be fair to Justin, his initial email said he didn't feel he was involved in the decision making process and that's the point to address, instead of us speculating on the cause of his apparent anger(?) or justifying the purchases by identifying where the money had come from. I can see this is taking us off-topic (a discussion now about how we make decisions rather than specifically a bandsaw for the workshop) so maybe we can discuss how we make group decisions in another thread.
Have updated the subject to reflect a change in topic!
I have used bandsaws and miter saws on the past, although I find the
bandsaw is more versatily when it come to shapes and materials the cut is
not always straight while miter saws having a disk produce a straight cut
as well as lasting longer (of course this depend how they are abuse), for
the purpose is going to be use on the club seem more appropriated a
bandsaw, but this is merely based on my personal experience perhaps I am
wrong ask the guys at machinemart pros and cons.
