Reasons For NBacking

[hiphopo...@yahoo.com]

Is there anyone here who nbacks because they are insecure about their level of intelligence?? I know my intelligence has been effected by severe depression and I am fighting to increase it. There are many reasons why I want to increase my intelligence. I want to develop powerful focus so I can understand things more in depth. I also enjoy the fast thinking that is similar to hypomania that comes with intelligence boosts. Half of me wants to increase my intelligence so I can have a better life.

 

The other side of me wants to feel superior over people who I feel inferior around. This sick side of me wants to dominate everyone who I fear. I look up to and fear smart people like they are gods. I equate intelligence with being god-like. I miss the manic states I used to have and the sense of power that came from them. Nbacking has put me in states far superior to the manic states. I can focus and accomplish things in these heightened states that I could've never done in manic states. I notice that when I do make the intelligence boosts, I always feel a profound sense of peace. The jealousy and anger go away. Anyway, is there anyone else here who wrestles with impure motives behind nbacking??   

[polar]

Hiphopopotamus I'm sorry that you beat yourself so much for being not perfect (mentally and emotionally) - nobody is, as you know, and its ok. 

Dne pátek, 31. srpna 2012 0:38:16 UTC+2 hiphopo...@yahoo.com napsal(a):

[ST]

Hi  Hiphopopotamus,

I'm sorry you feel this inferiority to smarter people. What is it you feel inferior about? Is it that certain people perform better in exams or are able to secure better jobs? It is not your intelligence ( still not proven to be changeable) or any other uncontrollable aspect that should define you. One should define oneself by the choices one makes in life. There are plenty of people who have succeeded in many fields who are not necessarily the smartest people in their field and have achieved success with a moderate intelligence and plenty of hard work and ingenuity. Francis Crick had a reported IQ of 115 and Richard Feynman's school IQ test gave him a score of 125. While these are of course above average, they do not correspond to the large scientific success of each of these men ( although some argue that Feynman's IQ test emphasised more verbal rather than mathematical ability http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-the-next-einstein/201112/polymath-physicist-richard-feynmans-low-iq-and-finding-another).

That said, I cannot say that my own N back pursuits are purely out of curiosity and one motivating factor is improving my own IQ. For me, this IQ gain would serve to improve my understanding of complex topics in medicine. Even if it is proven eventually that Dual n back skills do not transfer to g , I don't think I would be stopping my training, given the benefits I have seen in my short term memory and concentration. 

[jotaro]

feeling superior on others have nothing to do with intelligence.

i bet an elephant feels superior towards you.

but he isnt smarter then you.

so.... what you want,you wont find with n back.

take care.

  

 

[Joeng]

I have a friend who was obsessed with intelligence in a similar way as you. When he felt intelligent, he was in a maniac state; when he felt stupid he was depressed. He tortured himself because his best friend was some kind of genius. What happened then was that he befriended other people with other abilities and charms. He started to admire charming people, who would seduce you in any movie without needing a superior intelligence. The key, I think, is what you like in others... And if it's only intelligence, then maybe you are missing a lot.

[Robert Stanfield]

I'm not exactly in the same boat, but I began playing this game recently to better myself as well. I scored a 145 on an IQ test I took in psychology class. I do not know whether the score is accurate or not, but it seemed relatively accurate. During grade school, I was the C student helping the A students. I don't mean to belittle my peers, but the teacher frequently reviewed and simplified the text in class because everyone did not understand the material; thus, I would gather my knowledge on the subject that way apposed to doing homework and reading the textbook. I attend a private university now that isn't the greatest because of my grades, but better than I would normally qualify for because of my SAT score and Computer Science scholarships. This puts me in an interesting situation. Although the classes are still simple for the most part, I actually find myself experiencing trouble reading. Sad, but I only read like 12 books on my accord (not a school requirement) during my lifetime... so really, I am playing this game because I seek a method to increase attention span; thus, lessening the time taken to complete homework (reading the textbook). I am okay with vocabulary and comprehending the material, it's just a matter of doing it.

The working memory and theory that working memory influences IQ was all a byproduct. I thought IQ was genetic because I certainly did not do any brain related tasks growing up besides programming and playing with Lego. I most likely do not strike anyone as a "gifted" individual. I think the IQ test doesn't hold value because it fails to account for all areas of intelligence.

My hope of this game basically is to have better self-discipline to become productive (I'm extremely lazy) and concentrate on a given object for a longer period of time. So far I'm pleased by the result. I find the improvement in short term memory a very useful skill too. The only negative factor so far is that it's addicting.

[Mercel]

I can relate to Stanfield's background as well as his motives for
using dual n-back. I was a successful, attentive and inquisitive
student, top of my class, in primary school (i.e. wanting to discuss
God with my teacher in the first grade, creating songs to be sung in
class and being the protagonist in plays etc.) and everything looked
fine and my parents were at ease. Then came middle school and my
interest in scholasticism and much more, plummeted. The same pattern
followed me into high school, where I became erratic and was
frequently truant and a mystery and unknown to most except a few.
Sometimes bored, everything did seem so obvious at times. Perhaps it
was not because the material was too easy, but because of the
rigidness of the entire system and the lack of controlling your own
situation and being allowed to explore your own ideas and interests. I
graduated nonetheless mediocrely; with grades ranging from top to
bottom, depending on interest and disinterest. We have no scholarships
and no standardized tests here in Norway, so everything when applying
for higher education, is based on these three crucial years in high
school.

I'm not sure about my IQ, perhaps it is, in the end, irrelevant; at
least if you're average or somewhere above. I don't think intelligence
solely - independent of the level of intellect - can take you anywhere
- save for out the doors and downtown. There needs to be a synergy of
human qualities, and the more differentiated the qualities, the less
importance is placed on intelligence.

Perchance my intelligence, and even my working memory, remains the
same as before, and I don't know if that makes me maroon and bereaved
or not, but I think I can, on the other hand, claim safely, that this
program has made me less anxious and more focused. Since middle school
I've been terribly poor at expression myself, my ideas and
communicating my feelings; clearly an ability being masked by anxiety
or something else. This made me look like a buffoon at several
occasions (holding a presentation; losing your thoughts, stammering
and blacking out etc.). This grew and made me awfully self-conscious
and became a dizzying and depressive spiral, to a point where I no
longer were able to think clearly around people, and so I had to
distance myself from others.

I will continue using this program. Position n-back, coupled with
coffee, fades away sleep and reduces the cloudiness in my mind.

[Batman66]

Same boat here.  I have often felt self-loathing when thinking about how feeble my intellect is compared to those who seem to have it in spades.  When comparing myself to people of average intelligence, I still don't think I match up, because of a jagged cognitive profile and very poor executive functioning.  I really believe that if you have bottom-of-the-barrel executive functioning, there's almost nothing you can do in life that doesn't have a hex on it.. this has been the case for me.  Socially, emotionally, cognitively... nothing is untouched.  Because I have no skill that comes easy, I can't identify myself with anything--after 3 decades of life, I still don't know what I'm all about or what I should be doing, because nothing ever comes together.

 

So, I guess if cognitive training can do anything to help, I'd appreciate it.  But I don't expect much, and it's easy to see why: you don't exactly become an optimist when just the average person seems like a genius to you.  It seems some average people can do poorly in high school and not go to college, and still they can do 20 times more things than I can do during the day and learn new skills on the fly.  I just don't know what my deal is....

[polar]

Guys, I appreciate your honesty, let me tell you few things. First, everyone has their better and worse periods, when everything seems to be black or white... Next, maybe it would be inspiring for you to ponder, how it came, that you put such a great value on intelligence? Really, from the same facts, everybody creates another values - you choose intelligence to be on piedestal. But intelligence is not related to happiness, specific moral values, or social skills. And there are actually many things to compare - money, good looks, fullfilling relationships with people, health, travelling... So how do you do it, that you suffer, when you are like most other people (average) regarding one aspect - intelligence? And why dont you suffer that much when you compare in other areas? What do you (imagine) you need intelligence so desperately? Does it measure human value in your opinion? If you love something, the process is more important then the outcome. If you dont love it, then you need success a lot more - maybe to prove, you are good enough in general. But in general, as a human being, you ARE good enough and you've always been (regardless of what specific judgments parents or authotities put on you). Spit it off, shake it off, intelligence doesnt measure value of human being, for gods sake.

Comparison is a bitch. Everybody is better AND worse then some other persons. Comparison tends to be a loose/loose game - if you loose, you feel bad, if you win, you need more, you are afraid of next comparison, and success too often breeds loneliness. Comparison takes the joy out of everything (imagine your partner would judge every sex with you, or even compare it to other people). More generally speaking, intelligence and the whole reason is a TOOL, dont give it too much credit. Even people who were given great tools, dont have moral duty to become slaves of their tools. Neither do you. 

Its great to be conscious human being, with tons of people, things and experiences to enjoy. Intelligence really is just a bonus in one's life - as are many other things. Of course, regardless of intelligence, you will sometimes have hard time - but if you've chosen your direction with your desires (and not with your tool), they'll keep you on safely the track and you'll have a lot of great time along.

Dne sobota, 1. září 2012 7:02:55 UTC+2 Batman66 napsal(a):

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Batman, from your mail, you appear to be pretty intelligent. the fact that you are able to analyze and figure out that something is wrong with your puts you in a superior category.

(there are millions of people who are not even aware, who don't even question why they are struggling.. even if they question, they just accept it as their fate! you are at least questioning, and you appear to be hopeful, you are trying to figure out a way to improve. there are not many people like you!)

you are also able to figure out what specifically is wrong- executive part, learning speed.

regarding your comment that average person appears genius to you.. average person may appear to be super runner to a person who doesn't have legs.. but he should focus on other aspects.. where he is strong. In Arm wrestling he would much more stronger than other people (normal healthy people with legs). because he uses his hands to compensates for legs.

likewise, people who are inferior in one aspect of intelligence may still be having huge strength on other aspect of intelligence.

in your case, my intuition is that you must be very good at imagination, creativity- coming up with very unusual idea.. which are so unusual that they appear useless.

regarding slow learning.. it may be due to attention issue. some people don't have good control over their attention. other reason is slow processing speed of the brain. but both can be improved!

 

try to leverage whatever is your unique possession/strength, identify the areas which are becoming the bottleneck to your effectiveness in life/job and put some planned and focussed effort there.

particularly for your case, dnb should definitely help (at least to some extent).

 

bt

[Robert Stanfield]

I agree with polar and ADDer. Also, as far as learning speed goes, I think higher level thinkers tend to take longer to learn new material because they consider more factors. For example, an average student might learn the steps to take in order to solve a math problem; however, another may examine more closely why those steps work.

“The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less.” - Socrates

[jotaro]

regarding robert stuff,

education now days is about memorization

not understanding.

and people look so highly of uni regardless, this is simply ridiculous.

like the example with the math problems, university will only want you to memorize(atleast require).

from what i have seen most students just memorize,there is a very little percent which really cares about a subject and examines the why Q.

those people usually study the subject even before getting in uni.

the most typical will be computer science degree with zero programming exprience, which looks like they dont know why they chose it in the first place.

[Robert Stanfield]

When I turned 16, I worked at a Web Design company, and my boss often turned people with degrees down because they didn't possess adequate aptitude. I honestly questioned college myself before. Whenever I tell someone what you just said, they always say I'm wrong and college is more than that :/ If it weren't free, I honestly would have just freelanced lol.

Yeah, the only good programmers in my field are those that were doing it in middle school. The ones who learn in college merely learn how to do it. I think it's really sad that there are programmers out there that know syntax, but can't write a simple program to scroll text on the screen... they just don't have the critical thinking skills.

That's what separates the potential of an individual I suppose though. You notice inventions occur because people are curious, or lazy and seek a way to simplify a process :P Everyone else preforms tasks because it's mandatory.

[Batman66]

thanks for the support folks.

 

maybe part of the problem is i don't just think intelligence is a tool.. i seem to think it is almost *everything.*  those who have high intellect often do better in life, overall.  they often good grades (this need not be said).  they often are able to find jobs in areas that interest them, as opposed to the blue collar drone who goes to the bar every night to forget about their undesirable job (i know several people like this.)  i think intelligence is a large part of what separates the upper/middle/lower classes.  intellect allows you to achieve things you've always wanted to achieve, instead of just dreaming about it.  it's hard not to think it isn't everything.

[Steinbi]

I understand your distress about your perception of your intelligence because I shared your views once. I think I battled depression for a time too (never diagnosed, just troubled mentally). What matters is not what others do, it's what you do. You must know that others are born with better genes/environment, and that shapes how your intelligence develops. I've studied with offsprings from lower castes to high castes of society and there is a direct correlation between your social background and perceived (!) intelligence. I've seen kids who are smarter than the blue blood kids but never made it because they weren't born into culture and sophisticated households. Conversely, I have noticed kids who came from families of good means and achieve high status through connections and "inherited" intelligence.

In some cases I have seen individuals who have very high gC and gF but lack openess to experience or emotional comprehension (sociopathy? some would consider that a benefit, but coupled with lack of creatitivy and openess I would consider it a disadvantage). Sometimes the people who appear the smartest are actually just people with very high social intelligence and are therefore perceived more intelligent through their fluidity of thought in societal conventions. Sometimes the smartest people are bordering on autism with extreme wit, ability to understand abstract concepts and have immense musical talents (I hate that word) are just utterly unable to fit in society because of their lack of understanding of social workings or fashionable clothing (;mating mechanism) and are therefore perceived as lacking something (street smarts, intelligence, coolness, intelligence to notice the predicament they are in). 

Now to go back to the "What matters is not what others do, it's what you do", this means you have your own world to create and only with added understanding can you make your life better, not necessarily more intelligence (although it helps). Understanding won't come from doing working memory tasks all day, you have to give yourself time to gather information from life. 

If you have ever tried reading philosophy you notice that at first it's like climbing a mountain few have climbed but after climbing all these mountains they gradually turn into hills or just disappear for you to see that a world waits you behind them. So get more intelligent to gather knowledge. At one point the knowledge turns into wisdom and the world opens up to you.

[Durantula35]

I feel the same way often. It's a terrible way to live. 

[jotaro]

if you are so angry about them,stop being their friend.

so much sob stories, this is beyond ridiculous .

[Kevin Ann]

Geniusphysicist, I did a phd in physics. Not sure if you're in physics or how far along if you are, but physics is definitely an area where a sensitive/fragile ego towards intellectual ability can be a huge liability since everyone is usually very smart at the graduate level and beyond - so consider that point if you are planning to get into higher education in physics. In grad school, I had a Nobel laureate two floors above me, for example, and less of a big deal, I had office mates who scored perfect on the physics and/or general GREs.

Anyways, I do N-Backing because it's fun and I love a mental challenge.  Currently at Dual 10-Back and the main reason is probably that I can put in the hours because it was so fun. The moment it becomes a chore or it makes me angry, I will stop.

On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:58:32 AM UTC-5, Geniusphysicist wrote:

I feel quite indifferent from you.I usually tend to be the most intelligent person usually around nearly everyone I have met since birth. I tend to get depressed because these two friends of mine seem much more intelligent than I, despite only a 5 point difference in IQ. Mine being 143. Initially, I suppose I was terrible at mathematics or that being what I formerly believed. But, when i took interest I surpassed everyone.Apart from these 2 people. This, friend of mine was said to have been stupid in grade school and me 'Being the best' previously attempted to help him and he began to try to become smarter. After 2 years or so he was as smart as me. Now he is smarter than I. I do not know how he did it so quickly etc... The point is I seek dual n back for help and so i played it for a month and reached 6 back and left it for 8 months. I plan on recommencing my training until I can reach 20 back or so. The point is I always fell so inferior to them even when i succeed more than they. By 'succeed' I mean solve a difficult intellectual problem faster than they. I feel so depressed and suddenly i have some sort of existential depression. I know not why. So i tend to get jealous and angry as well. I think my main problem is my ability to concentrate, I tend to have ,immediately most of the time, a plan when solving a problem. But then I may forget a small piece of information and perhaps have a 'Memory Leak' which makes me so angry when I realize that it was just a stupid mistake. Their both older than me one by 4 months and the other by 7 and so sometimes I just acute their relative intelligence to me one of age. So yeah, that is pretty much it .