3D n-back

[shitsumeisha]

I've written a small java program:
http://www.2shared.com/file/XV0ayl31/3Dnback.html (6,6 MB)

Prerequisities:
OpenGL 2
Java 5

This is a test version, but usable. Graphics are a bit weird. Anyway,
happy rotating :-)

[UOchris1]

Its an impressive start. What else are you planning to add?

On Feb 28, 3:58 pm, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I've written a small java program:http://www.2shared.com/file/XV0ayl31/3Dnback.html(6,6 MB)

[Pieter Nooren]

This is really cool. Thanks!

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[rgpddt]

Very interesting! I'll give it a try and will be waiting for new
versions.

On 29 helmi, 00:58, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I've written a small java program:http://www.2shared.com/file/XV0ayl31/3Dnback.html(6,6 MB)

[Michael]

Wow, terrific work!

I've just finished playing for 15 minutes straight on rotate mode and
I've noticed a very intriguing after effect, I know there is a name
for it, can't think of it now but if someone has an inkling go right
ahead... Anyway, immediately after playing it whenever I focus briefly
(+++) on an object I see it rotating automatically, this includes the
screen that I'm viewing now as I type this message!

Hints??

On Feb 29, 9:58 am, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I've written a small java program:http://www.2shared.com/file/XV0ayl31/3Dnback.html(6,6 MB)

[shitsumeisha]

Version 0.02 (or so):
http://www.2shared.com/file/0UiRMVr5/3Dnback02.html

added feedback and cube colors
at 640x480 the last option isn't visible

[shitsumeisha]

The libs don't change, so here's the "3D n-back.jar" file alone (just
replace):
http://www.2shared.com/file/7metDUlN/3Dnback02-wo-libs.html

[Psionic]

Thanks for amazing work! I find it really enjoyable and challenging
when playing in rotation mode. Also chunking seem almost impossible
here!
What do you think about adding something like multi stim mode?

[Kyaw Zaw Lin]

@michael,
same situation! i just knew i read it before cant name it...anyway after some regoogling..it's called tetris effect..also seems related to hypnagogia according to wiki.

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Zaw Lin

[☉]

I was getting a strange crash after porting the jar file to the old
folder, so I decided to download the zip with the libs included, and
it works fine now.

If you don't mind (and I'm sure you might be working on at least one
of these), I have a few suggestions:

1) If possible, at a later point, enable 3D screen support. (This
would be very cool, and unique, and probably motivate me to buy some
3D vision glasses for my monitor finally. And it would tie in well
with the whole "3Dnback" idea.)
2) Add another parallel stream to be tracked and color-coded so that
the end user will know that they're different.
3) Working on the color scheme, you can implement a color rotation n-
back into the game as well.
2&3 are very similar to the multi-stim and color modes in BW and are
highly useable features to add complexity to the game, and it would be
a good idea to think of features that can be ported into your design
(not necessarily all of them, of course).
4) If it's possible, try looking into controller configuration,
instead of having users key-in their inputs. I find that playing games
on the keyboard just isn't as engaging as using my SixAxis or
DualShock controller, and the risk of carpel tunnel diminishes
considerably...
5) Related to the controller idea, at some distant point in
development, you might even want to consider that the gyroscopic
mechanisms in today's controllers, like the PlayStation SixAxis, could
be the germ to truly interesting modes for the game and the 3D theme.
6) Don't restrict the game field to a 3^3 cube. Put in some variety
with other 3D shapes. The Platonic Solids (the cube is one of them)
would be a good ver. 1.0 batch to have.
7) And, naturally, enable the usual features surrounding number of
trials per session, percentage correct per session to fall back,
progress, or remain at the same n-level for the next session, data
logging, etc.

Thank you for creating this very interesting implementation of the n-
back idea. I am extremely happy to see how customizable the random
rotation feature is and that I can speed it up.

Looking forward to more. :)

argumzio

[whoisbambam]

Argumzio,

but why all these features for a 'game' that probably does little to
nothing for fluid intelligence or IQ????

you think it may increase transferable working memory and this is
benefit enough?

just a simple, straightforward comment/explanation will suffice.

I am thinking that just the occasional session with plain-old dnb
would suffice since there is perhaps no benefit beyond working memory
enhancement.

thanks, in advance.

[Michael]

Thanks Zaw! I think we discussed the "tetris effect" a while back, but I obviously just forgot about it.

I played again today however I didn't notice the same aftereffect. I'm wondering whether or not it may have something to do with the fact that I had the "change speed"option enabled this time around or maybe just because I've now become habituated to the experience, not absolutely sure. I guess I will test it out a bit more over the next few days. My guess is that the former has more to do with it, however, I'll just see what kind of pattern emerges overtime before I elaborate on it prematurely.

On Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:23:22 PM UTC+11, Zaw Lin wrote:

@michael,
same situation! i just knew i read it before cant name it...anyway after some regoogling..it's called tetris effect..also seems related to hypnagogia according to wiki.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:09 AM, Psionic <psion...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for amazing work! I find it really enjoyable and challenging
when playing in rotation mode. Also chunking seem almost impossible
here!
What do you think about adding something like multi stim mode?

On Feb 29, 2:10 pm, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 29 Feb., 14:05, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Version 0.02 (or so):http://www.2shared.com/file/0UiRMVr5/3Dnback02.html
>
> > added feedback and cube colors
> > at 640x480 the last option isn't visible
>
> The libs don't change, so here's the "3D n-back.jar" file alone (just
> replace):http://www.2shared.com/file/7metDUlN/3Dnback02-wo-libs.html

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Zaw Lin

[Psionic]

BamBam, I dont mind iq or intellect, but I cheerfully welcome gains
in
willpower (and its effect on discipline), concentration, verbal
fluency and emotional control which in results have greater impact
on
one´s life. Maybe theres point of view where you see bottle half
empty but it can be also viewed as half full :)

[Kyaw Zaw Lin]

@michael,
I previously thought the requirements for that to happen is 1)novelty of the activity and 2)it must be done for sufficient duration. 15 minutes seem too short. assuming the manifestation of this indicate some kind of progress, i think this is very interesting!

I have yet to try this(procrastination be damned! :/) but it sounds quite useful according to the feedback! kudos to shitsumeisha!

my thoughts on Argumzio's suggestions:
1) I do not think this is useful. even if it is i think it's the domain of graphics card manufacturers like nvidia. I actually think you may already be able do this simply by installing one of their programs.
2 & 3) yup i think additional channels(that are already present in BW) to track may be very useful for those who feel the simplest nb no longer challenges them anymore.
4 & 5)Mapping controller inputs to keyboard can easily be done via some kind of remapper. http://alternativeto.net/software/xpadder/
6) I think this is the most interesting stuff! i doubt whether shape variations will be useful but what about an additional dimension or more..(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-dimensional_sequential_move_puzzle). a java-based version already exists! (http://www.gravitation3d.com/magiccube5d/). maybe it will cut quite a bit of work.
7) anlytics tools are definitely essential to understanding own's progress(or lack of progress). I think current BW is severely limited in this area. it would be nice to have more control over how the graph is generated. eg:it cannot overlay different series and time interval is fixed.

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Zaw Lin

[whoisbambam]

I already know this.

dnb works for me in that regard.

I am asking about argumzio

it seems strange to me that he would waste his time on this.

trust me, he doesnt need increased verbal fluency and willpower.

:)

i would think argumzio would be working toward knowledge acquisition
as i do not believe he has any 'deficits' dnb can correct at his
'level'

[Michael]

Thanks Zaw!

Yeah, I've been informed of something similar so it is interesting in this respect, nevertheless I'll note any aftereffects over the next few days, until then I very much encourage you to take this baby out for a ride on the town because this novel implementation can certainly blow your hair back! Shouldn't be too long before it earns some "street cred", so to speak!

Once again, nice work shitsumeisha!

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Zaw Lin

[☉]

For me, if it's a good game that I find challenging enough, then
that's all I need. During my extended bouts of knowledge acquisition,
I grow weary, and something interesting is bound to attract my
attention for a while. The attraction is not an admission on my part
that I believe there is any far-transfer in the game itself; however,
given that this variety of n-back is very new and one I haven't seen
before, and particularly recalling that position n-back was the one to
be implicated in raw score gains (of dubious significance) for
Matrices, it stands to reason that this generalization of place
relations to be retained in WM will make the task more interesting,
particularly considering that we live in a 3D world in which objects
do not generally find themselves restricted to a 2D grid.

I find shitsumeisha's n-back very interesting, and hope it gets more
interesting still, particularly if he implements a number of the
suggestions I stated above. Although I have many more ideas that could
make the game even more interesting, I think shitsumeisha's smart
enough to figure out what he wants to do with his software.

argumzio

[☉]

And my response to your response:

1) "Useful"? Is that really the criterion by which we judge
everything? No. However, I don't have the glasses to see what software
would actually display the game in 3D (on my Nvidia card, of course).
If anyone has all of the hardware (GPU, monitor, and glasses), please
look into this just for our sake.
4) I don't like Xpadder that much. Moreover, I was thinking that this
functionality (and customization) should be included within the
program itself instead of the user having to rely on other software to
achieve a straightforward result.
5) I think that this one is probably going to be the most troublesome
to implement.
6) I thought higher dimensional implementations might be considered
for the game, since such games as Magic Cube 5D and beyond exist
already, but they're too unwieldy for a fast-paced game for memory
tracking, and (not counting 3D vision possibilities) a 2D
representation of n-D objects for n>3 becomes rather cumbersome, and
though I suppose it may be possible, nothing about the game as such
really requires that one understand what it means for something to
have a 4D placement on the screen, because no higher-dimensional
symmetries need to be understood that a cube has lit up at position
(x,y) on the screen.

argumzio

On Mar 1, 6:10 am, Kyaw Zaw Lin <kzl.zaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> my thoughts on Argumzio's suggestions:
> 1) I do not think this is useful. even if it is i think it's the domain of
> graphics card manufacturers like nvidia. I actually think you may already
> be able do this simply by installing one of their programs.
> 2 & 3) yup i think additional channels(that are already present in BW) to
> track may be very useful for those who feel the simplest nb no longer
> challenges them anymore.
> 4 & 5)Mapping controller inputs to keyboard can easily be done via some

> kind of remapper.http://alternativeto.net/software/xpadder/

[☉]

Addendum to 6)

Even if one were to add higher-dimensional rotation symmetries for n-D
objects of n>3, it is often the case that the "faces" (or "volumes" in
4D) disappear, because the particular projection onto the screen would
necessarily obstruct our view of the rest of the object. You can see
this in all of the 4D, 5D, etc., rubik's cube software out there now.
In effect, if a cubie lights up, but happens to be one of the faces we
can't see, then we're pretty much SOL in knowing when we have a match
for it. In other words, it is a significant complication, meaning that
your suggestion is really a very different suggestion from my own.
Perhaps too different that it will require some thought on how all the
faces of the said objects will be visible to the user.

Frac4D solved this quite nicely, but I think it would be tricky, if
not confusing, to include rotational effects with this.

argumzio

[Kyaw Zaw Lin]

1) maybe i used the wrong vocabulary. what i mean is if the functionality is already available via some workaround, it's probably better not to include it because there's only one guy doing it so far.

6) yup...i should have clarified that. you are right! it's a very different suggestion but i would not have thought of that without your suggestion. the reason i said it may not be useful, is because it requires much much more thought to get to the implementable form. say tetrahedron, how exactly to fit it into n-backable implementation? one way is to try to decompose it into self-similar objects,like fractals. but i am not too sure anything already exists that does this. if it exists, ya why not! maybe useful! so in that sense, my purely subjective notion of usefulness is entirely dependant on my prior knowledge which is quite limited.

I only poked  around with that magic 5d cube, but i assumed it has a way to deal with the projection problem.my point being, it's already done! wouldnt hurt to port over and see how it might work in nb.

Frac4D looks nice!! I think it solves the dimension issue better than above.Taking that implementation,an extension into higher dimensions would be possible by having cubes inside cubes. So in that analogy,Frac4D is doing cubes inside lines.

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Zaw Lin

[shitsumeisha]

Another update:
http://www.2shared.com/file/MDEKS-_Q/3Dnback03.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/jTkEWz-B/3Dnback03-wo-libs.html (should
work now - assets.jar was missing the last time)

- simple logging (there is a one off error for the number of trials.
Error counter gets updated with feedback, trials get updated when new
trial starts)
- mysterious black color ;-)
- rotating cubes (a bit useless, but funny)

3d screen: This might be very simple: just adding a second camera,
attaching it to a second screen and this to the "second" monitor. But
I don't know if and how it works.
multi-stim: Yes, adding these things seems very natural. BW is
inspiring :-) Audio is another idea.
other input devices: I don't know how this is done and I can't test
it.
3x3 cube: Other topologies are interesting, e.g. spheres on a sphere.
There are no corners and edges.
higher dimensions: That's crazy - and difficult to implement.

Thanks for all the nice feedback, I really enjoy it.

[whoisbambam]

argumzio,

that is what i figured--that somehow you simply found it pleasurable--
more like 'a game', and therefore the question, lol, must have seem
quite ludicrous (why do you think? games are entertainment, duh)

sorry

this makes sense.

thank you for your explanation.

[Psionic]

It would be great to implement also option for adjusting transparency
of cubes, sometimes I got hard times identify which cube was shown..
Now Im playing multiple times a day and I really like feeling of
light pressure in my head, looks like my brain is being hardly taxed
which is great! Cant wait for multi-stim mode:)

On Mar 2, 12:50 am, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Another update:http://www.2shared.com/file/MDEKS-_Q/3Dnback03.htmlhttp://www.2shared.com/file/jTkEWz-B/3Dnback03-wo-libs.html(should

[shitsumeisha]

http://www.2shared.com/file/i8EzZnTC/3Dnback04.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/z1X7I2vO/3Dnback04-wo-libs.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/kFX6BMLM/3Dnback04-with-music.html

Not much new
- cleaning up code
- background music option (put in folder ./music/) - wanted to test
sound in jMonkey

music by tryad.org (creative commons) and en.wikipedia.org

[foobeer]

Hi, I tried it out for the first time and it threw an exception:

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java/nio/file/DirectoryStream

Is it not java 5 compatible anymore? That seems to be java 7.
I am using java 6.

foobeer

shitsumeisha wrote/schrieb:

[shitsumeisha]

Sorry, you're right. I'll replace nio later, there's nothing new
besides music.

[shitsumeisha]

A new version:
http://www.2shared.com/file/xw3tuY7K/3Dnback05.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/uWYXlrJs/3Dnback05-wo-libs.html

Just in case anybody wants this:
http://www.2shared.com/file/uICiM7y5/music.html

- session limit (0 means unlimited)
- auto adjusting level (simple)
- save options, reloads on start (file "config"). This is a serialized
java object, so no editing possible. I guess it'll get editable, this
was the easiest way to implement.
- back to java 5

[Psionic]

gonna try this, I think we are ready for multi stim mode :) And
greetings, I am playing 3D n-back twice a day every day from your
first release

On Mar 5, 10:02 pm, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> A new version:http://www.2shared.com/file/xw3tuY7K/3Dnback05.htmlhttp://www.2shared.com/file/uWYXlrJs/3Dnback05-wo-libs.html

[Psionic]

any news? Really need to know if it will be possible to play with
piano and multi-stim mode one day :) I am currently only at 3-level
and I am amazed how variable is 3D environment for n-back (especially
in broking learned patterns of chunking) when compared to 2D..

On Mar 5, 10:02 pm, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> A new version:http://www.2shared.com/file/xw3tuY7K/3Dnback05.htmlhttp://www.2shared.com/file/uWYXlrJs/3Dnback05-wo-libs.html

[shitsumeisha]

On 11 Mrz., 22:36, Psionic <psionic0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> any news? Really need to know if it will be possible to play with
> piano and multi-stim mode one day :) I am currently only at 3-level
> and I am amazed how variable is 3D environment for n-back (especially
> in broking learned patterns of chunking) when compared to 2D..
>

I have no time until at least next weekend. I'm optimistic to continue
next week.

[Psionic]

great to hear it from you, I dont hurry on anything :) Interestingly
we started working on multidimensional data cubes extracted from SQL
in my work today, so I am looking forward to test if theres any
transfereffect of imagination and problem solving related to this. I
dont believe in coincidences :)

[Denunfo]

Hi! I´m having trouble trying to play 3Dnback. I´ve already installed
opengl 2 and java but the game doesn´t run. Whenever I want to play,
the "select display settings" menu appears and when I click "Ok" a
dark screen appears and dissapears almost instantly and then nothing
happens. If I do this lots of times in a row a message appears that my
computer ran out of visual memory.... I don´t know much about
computers, can anybody? thanks.

On 28 feb, 16:58, shitsumeisha <shitsumei...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I've written a small java program:http://www.2shared.com/file/XV0ayl31/3Dnback.html(6,6 MB)
>
> Prerequisities:
> OpenGL 2
> Java 5
>
> This is a test version, but usable. Graphics are a bit weird. Anyway,
> happy rotating :-)

[deftcat]

Neat idea. I installed http://www.2shared.com/file/i8EzZnTC/3Dnback04.html
clicked on start with all the default settings and right after it
turned both my monitors black, adjusted resolution on both, then
exited. Wouldn't let me readjust resolution without rebooting computer
either.

[Reece]

I don't suppose anyone else has had a chance to try this out yet --
any more personal reports? :-)

[Psionic]

Im running fine on windows 7 64bit, all versions are ok for me.. btw I
got rotation after-effect too and its usually gone about one minute
after playing, so I dont think it has any other negatives :)

[Gyuri]

I am having the same technical problem as Denunfo and defcat: after
clicking the OK button, nothing happens. If i select full screen mode,
then a black screen appears for a second and then the program exits. I
have jawa installed, but i dont know anything about OpenGL 2 (probably
my OS contains it: Win7ultimate , 64 bit). Can anyone help us please?

On márc. 21, 03:08, deftcat <deft...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neat idea. I installedhttp://www.2shared.com/file/i8EzZnTC/3Dnback04.html

[Gyuri]

After installing a fresh 64 bit java (Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -
windows-x64), nothing improved :(

http://download.cnet.com/Java-Runtime-Environment-JRE-64-Bit/3000-2378_4-75317067.html

Any idea?

[shitsumeisha]

My laptop is going to repair tomorrow, so there'll be no update for a
while.

I'm currently using my old one (from 2007) which has an on-board
graphics solution (intel 945) which is missing (hardware) support for
opengl 2.0. So, back on topic, the hardware should support it (which
it should if it's fairly new) and you need a driver supporting it.
Windows is natively only supporting opengl 1.1.

You might want to take a look here: http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Getting_Started

There's also a pure software solution: http://www.mesa3d.org/
It has two drawbacks: It's slow and you need to compile it yourself or
find a precompiled version somewhere.

You can also try a google search for your graphics card, e.g. "nvidia
geforce gt 540m opengl", or look at the manufacturer website.

On Apr 3, 2:48 pm, Gyuri <g.fenyofa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After installing a fresh 64 bit java (Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -
> windows-x64), nothing improved :(
>

> http://download.cnet.com/Java-Runtime-Environment-JRE-64-Bit/3000-237...

[shitsumeisha]

To get your current supported OpenGL version, run it in a console:

java -jar "3D nback.jar"

On my old laptop this outputs (all in all about 30 lines):

Apr 03, 2012 5:33:51 PM com.jme3.system.lwjgl.LwjglContext
printContextInitInfo
Information: OpenGL Version: 1.4.0 - Build 7.14.10.1504
Apr 03, 2012 5:33:51 PM com.jme3.system.lwjgl.LwjglContext
printContextInitInfo
Information: Renderer: Intel 945GM

[Gyuri]

Thank you for your answer. I've managed to diagnose my OpenGL version
with this download (OpenGL Extensions Viewer): http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/download.html
Unfortunately I have only version 1.4 and there is no driver update
available for my graphics card...
The MESA installation and implementation seems too complicated for
me.
Probably I will try to install your 3D-N-back software to a newer
laptop soon.