Air Traffic Control?
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Pontus Granström
Nov 3, 2010, 5:25:45 PM11/3/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Is there anyone that is into air traffic control? I imagine that n-
backing could be very beneficial for such occupations.
backing could be very beneficial for such occupations.
Dom
Nov 3, 2010, 6:50:31 PM11/3/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I am applying at the beginning of next year. What ideas do you have in
relation to n-back and its potential benefits for such an occupation?
relation to n-back and its potential benefits for such an occupation?
Pontus Granström
Nov 3, 2010, 7:07:15 PM11/3/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Nice, well for example digit span and memory type tests, managing multiple tasks, staying calm/focused. I can imagine n-backing being very beneficial!
You got any ideas on what kind of tests you are going to take?
You got any ideas on what kind of tests you are going to take?
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Dom
Nov 4, 2010, 5:49:33 AM11/4/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
IQ determination:
- Number series
- RAPM
Knowledge determination:
- Basic mathematical aptitude
- Advanced mathematical aptitude
Interview:
- Question & answer
Group scenarios:
- Problem based scenarios
= Testing a persons ability to work with other people
Not sure on what other testing will be done.
Yourself?
On Nov 4, 10:07 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nice, well for example digit span and memory type tests, managing multiple
> tasks, staying calm/focused. I can imagine n-backing being very beneficial!
> You got any ideas on what kind of tests you are going to take?
>
> > .
- Number series
- RAPM
Knowledge determination:
- Basic mathematical aptitude
- Advanced mathematical aptitude
Interview:
- Question & answer
Group scenarios:
- Problem based scenarios
= Testing a persons ability to work with other people
Not sure on what other testing will be done.
Yourself?
On Nov 4, 10:07 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nice, well for example digit span and memory type tests, managing multiple
> tasks, staying calm/focused. I can imagine n-backing being very beneficial!
> You got any ideas on what kind of tests you are going to take?
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Dom <cloudsinsp...@live.com.au> wrote:
> > I am applying at the beginning of next year. What ideas do you have in
> > relation to n-back and its potential benefits for such an occupation?
>
> > On Nov 4, 8:25 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Is there anyone that is into air traffic control? I imagine that n-
> > > backing could be very beneficial for such occupations.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > I am applying at the beginning of next year. What ideas do you have in
> > relation to n-back and its potential benefits for such an occupation?
>
> > On Nov 4, 8:25 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Is there anyone that is into air traffic control? I imagine that n-
> > > backing could be very beneficial for such occupations.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
Pontus Granström
Nov 4, 2010, 6:25:42 AM11/4/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Here in Europe they got some standardised tests that are somewhat more specific for ATC.
When applying for pilot there are some additional tests that are extra important for pilots like digit span (radio communication with numbers), stroop (stress/functioning), very speeded spatial tests (psycho motor type of stuff like how to pull a joystick to make a plane go in a certain way). Also a simultaneous capacity test which I requested for BWS.
Seems strange that they should settle with two measures of G but who knows.
You got any idea of what kind of scores that are competitive/required?
When applying for pilot there are some additional tests that are extra important for pilots like digit span (radio communication with numbers), stroop (stress/functioning), very speeded spatial tests (psycho motor type of stuff like how to pull a joystick to make a plane go in a certain way). Also a simultaneous capacity test which I requested for BWS.
Seems strange that they should settle with two measures of G but who knows.
You got any idea of what kind of scores that are competitive/required?
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
Dom
Nov 4, 2010, 7:15:06 AM11/4/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
There is a very high likelihood that there will be other procedures
that I will have to perform that will help determine my suitability,
however, it is my understanding that they keep a very tight lid on
these operations. Your examples (digit span, stroop test & other
psychomotor activities) are quite insightful, I have not been made
aware of these measure, however as noted, that does not mean that they
will not reveal themselves come my evaluation.
Questions...
1. What do you mean by the simultaneous capacity test? - It reminds me
of a spatial working memory updating game I sometimes play at
Cognitive fun.
http://cognitivefun.net/test/23
2. What modes found in Brain Workshop do you think may benefit my
performance?
3. What is your concentration? ATC, pilot?
In relation to the score required for entry, I do not know. I can
postulate its 120+ but I do not know. I know people who have gone
through basic selection procedures. I was informed by them that they
__do not__ reveal the scores to the applicants or the careers
counselor who advises the applicants on the jobs they can go for based
on their initial baseline tests. Because most of the tests are done on
computer, as soon as you are finished, the computer prints out a "jobs
opportunities" sheet. This sheet provides information on the types of
jobs an applicant can apply for based on their initial baseline tests.
If the applicant is provided with the opportunity to apply for a
sophisticated position (pilot, ATC, officer, intelligence etc),
further testing is required. The number series and the RAPM test are
the baseline tests, group scenarios and interviews are the further
tests. As previously illustrated, the story of admission for the more
sophisticated roles is probably a lot more complex than initially
implied.
On Nov 4, 9:25 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here in Europe they got some standardised tests that are somewhat more
> specific for ATC.
> When applying for pilot there are some additional tests that are extra
> important for pilots like digit span (radio communication with numbers),
> stroop (stress/functioning), very speeded spatial tests (psycho motor type
> of stuff like how to pull a joystick to make a plane go in a certain way).
> Also a simultaneous capacity test which I requested for BWS.
>
> Seems strange that they should settle with two measures of G but who knows.
> You got any idea of what kind of scores that are competitive/required?
>
> > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
that I will have to perform that will help determine my suitability,
however, it is my understanding that they keep a very tight lid on
these operations. Your examples (digit span, stroop test & other
psychomotor activities) are quite insightful, I have not been made
aware of these measure, however as noted, that does not mean that they
will not reveal themselves come my evaluation.
Questions...
1. What do you mean by the simultaneous capacity test? - It reminds me
of a spatial working memory updating game I sometimes play at
Cognitive fun.
http://cognitivefun.net/test/23
2. What modes found in Brain Workshop do you think may benefit my
performance?
3. What is your concentration? ATC, pilot?
In relation to the score required for entry, I do not know. I can
postulate its 120+ but I do not know. I know people who have gone
through basic selection procedures. I was informed by them that they
__do not__ reveal the scores to the applicants or the careers
counselor who advises the applicants on the jobs they can go for based
on their initial baseline tests. Because most of the tests are done on
computer, as soon as you are finished, the computer prints out a "jobs
opportunities" sheet. This sheet provides information on the types of
jobs an applicant can apply for based on their initial baseline tests.
If the applicant is provided with the opportunity to apply for a
sophisticated position (pilot, ATC, officer, intelligence etc),
further testing is required. The number series and the RAPM test are
the baseline tests, group scenarios and interviews are the further
tests. As previously illustrated, the story of admission for the more
sophisticated roles is probably a lot more complex than initially
implied.
On Nov 4, 9:25 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here in Europe they got some standardised tests that are somewhat more
> specific for ATC.
> When applying for pilot there are some additional tests that are extra
> important for pilots like digit span (radio communication with numbers),
> stroop (stress/functioning), very speeded spatial tests (psycho motor type
> of stuff like how to pull a joystick to make a plane go in a certain way).
> Also a simultaneous capacity test which I requested for BWS.
>
> Seems strange that they should settle with two measures of G but who knows.
> You got any idea of what kind of scores that are competitive/required?
>
Pontus Granström
Nov 4, 2010, 7:33:32 AM11/4/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Well here they do not really reveal either but to be qualified to go for pilot selection
you have to be in the top 5-10% of the "normal population". I guess around 120 seems reasonable.
Just as I told likeprestige, stroop performance improves by aerobic exercise so that's what to aim for. As I know that ATC/pilot stuff also requires a lot of math training with numbers like raindrops over at lumosity.com might be useful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEAST_test
Here's the test I mentioned however there's a lot of criticism around the test and not all countires use it. Some of the stuff might be fun to have in BWS. As you see there are quite many tasks where n-back training might be beneficial. Recall of numbers, quick sorting and so on.
you have to be in the top 5-10% of the "normal population". I guess around 120 seems reasonable.
Just as I told likeprestige, stroop performance improves by aerobic exercise so that's what to aim for. As I know that ATC/pilot stuff also requires a lot of math training with numbers like raindrops over at lumosity.com might be useful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEAST_test
Here's the test I mentioned however there's a lot of criticism around the test and not all countires use it. Some of the stuff might be fun to have in BWS. As you see there are quite many tasks where n-back training might be beneficial. Recall of numbers, quick sorting and so on.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
Dom
Nov 4, 2010, 8:16:49 AM11/4/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
What do you mean by the simultaneous capacity test? Is it at all
comparable to the spatial working memory updating game found at
Cognitive fun?
Thanks for the previous links...
On Nov 4, 10:33 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well here they do not really reveal either but to be qualified to go for
> pilot selection
> you have to be in the top 5-10% of the "normal population". I guess around
> 120 seems reasonable.
>
> Just as I told likeprestige, stroop performance improves by aerobic exercise
> so that's what to aim for. As I know that ATC/pilot stuff also requires a
> lot of math training with numbers like raindrops over at lumosity.com might
> be useful.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEAST_test
>
> Here's the test I mentioned however there's a lot of criticism around the
> test and not all countires use it. Some of the stuff might be fun to have in
> BWS. As you see there are quite many tasks where n-back training might be
> beneficial. Recall of numbers, quick sorting and so on.
>
> > > > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
comparable to the spatial working memory updating game found at
Cognitive fun?
Thanks for the previous links...
On Nov 4, 10:33 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well here they do not really reveal either but to be qualified to go for
> pilot selection
> you have to be in the top 5-10% of the "normal population". I guess around
> 120 seems reasonable.
>
> Just as I told likeprestige, stroop performance improves by aerobic exercise
> so that's what to aim for. As I know that ATC/pilot stuff also requires a
> lot of math training with numbers like raindrops over at lumosity.com might
> be useful.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEAST_test
>
> Here's the test I mentioned however there's a lot of criticism around the
> test and not all countires use it. Some of the stuff might be fun to have in
> BWS. As you see there are quite many tasks where n-back training might be
> beneficial. Recall of numbers, quick sorting and so on.
>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
Pontus Granström
Nov 4, 2010, 8:47:45 AM11/4/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
It's not that different although it's called reverseal of directions. You got a 4x4 square each square got a name like up up left left, up down right right and so on (all 16 combinations). Then you are asked to mark
each square with either your right or left hand, so the instructions become like up up left left right (conflict) and it all speeds up as the test goes even to the point where it is impossible to get all right. I would love to have such game in BWS.
each square with either your right or left hand, so the instructions become like up up left left right (conflict) and it all speeds up as the test goes even to the point where it is impossible to get all right. I would love to have such game in BWS.
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Dom
Nov 4, 2010, 8:53:29 AM11/4/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Yes, that sounds like it would get really hard. But fun. What do you
think about the game at Cognitive fun? Beneficial?
On Nov 4, 11:47 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not that different although it's called reverseal of directions. You
> got a 4x4 square each square got a name like up up left left, up down right
> right and so on (all 16 combinations). Then you are asked to mark
> each square with either your right or left hand, so the instructions become
> like up up left left right (conflict) and it all speeds up as the test goes
> even to the point where it is impossible to get all right. I would love to
> have such game in BWS.
>
> > > > > > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
think about the game at Cognitive fun? Beneficial?
On Nov 4, 11:47 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not that different although it's called reverseal of directions. You
> got a 4x4 square each square got a name like up up left left, up down right
> right and so on (all 16 combinations). Then you are asked to mark
> each square with either your right or left hand, so the instructions become
> like up up left left right (conflict) and it all speeds up as the test goes
> even to the point where it is impossible to get all right. I would love to
> have such game in BWS.
>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
Pontus Granström
Nov 4, 2010, 8:55:43 AM11/4/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Memory updating seems incredible hard and fast paced. Seems like a game I requested although with more objects and less speed and also rotations. Might be beneficial for ATC no doubt.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
Dom
Nov 5, 2010, 1:47:12 AM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Pontus, let's see who can get to __four__ boxes first on the "Spatial
working memory updating" game at Cognitive Fun. The game will be a lot
more motivating to play if we can think of it as an imaginary
competition, no?
On Nov 4, 11:55 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Memory updating seems incredible hard and fast paced. Seems like a game I
> requested although with more objects and less speed and also rotations.
> Might be beneficial for ATC no doubt.
>
> > > > > > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252525252B...@googlegroups.com>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
working memory updating" game at Cognitive Fun. The game will be a lot
more motivating to play if we can think of it as an imaginary
competition, no?
On Nov 4, 11:55 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Memory updating seems incredible hard and fast paced. Seems like a game I
> requested although with more objects and less speed and also rotations.
> Might be beneficial for ATC no doubt.
>
> > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252525252B...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.
>
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> > > > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
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>
> > > > <brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <brain-training%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Pontus Granström
Nov 5, 2010, 4:02:52 AM11/5/10
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Sure, I am already at three =)
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Pontus Granström
Nov 5, 2010, 8:09:16 AM11/5/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
New top score 40% I think this game really is too fast paced, but gives your pure visualization skills a good workout. Problem with Gv tests in general is that people tend to solve them with G.
Dom
Nov 5, 2010, 9:32:25 AM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Can you explain this please...
"Problem with Gv tests in general is that people tend to solve them
with G. "
> ...
>
> read more »
"Problem with Gv tests in general is that people tend to solve them
with G. "
On Nov 5, 11:09 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> New top score 40% I think this game really is too fast paced, but gives your
> pure visualization skills a good workout. Problem with Gv tests in general
> is that people tend to solve them with G.
>
> New top score 40% I think this game really is too fast paced, but gives your
> pure visualization skills a good workout. Problem with Gv tests in general
> is that people tend to solve them with G.
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure, I am already at three =)
>
> > Sure, I am already at three =)
>
>
> read more »
Dom
Nov 5, 2010, 9:39:23 AM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
P.S - that moeman guy is a God. 6 boxes!?!?! I don't think there is a
away you can cheat on these things...
> ...
>
> read more »
away you can cheat on these things...
>
> read more »
Dom
Nov 5, 2010, 9:44:01 AM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Pontus Granström
Nov 5, 2010, 9:56:55 AM11/5/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Constructing visual spatial tests is usually difficult since they are often solvable by other means than actually visualize the object and the rotation or similar operation. Why? Because given enough time you can map them into verbal constructs. Divide them into sub problems or use fixed known relations.
For example the boxes could be named A to I and operations could then be simple additions according to pre defined rules that A is a neighbour to B and D and so on. In that sense it would be very similar to n-backing, you got a list and you update it according to a rule. This is a known problem with Gv-tests. By minimizing the time you can avoid such problem by forcing the participant to visualize rather than to compute. In the air force test battery some Gf tests were mixed with Gv, where you were to remember the answer and then shown it separately. This is also shown by that most Gv-tests loads equal or sometimes even more in G compared to Gv.
Strange enough Gv,Gc seems to have little prediction power with the exception for certain areas of course.
For example the boxes could be named A to I and operations could then be simple additions according to pre defined rules that A is a neighbour to B and D and so on. In that sense it would be very similar to n-backing, you got a list and you update it according to a rule. This is a known problem with Gv-tests. By minimizing the time you can avoid such problem by forcing the participant to visualize rather than to compute. In the air force test battery some Gf tests were mixed with Gv, where you were to remember the answer and then shown it separately. This is also shown by that most Gv-tests loads equal or sometimes even more in G compared to Gv.
Strange enough Gv,Gc seems to have little prediction power with the exception for certain areas of course.
> ...
>
> read more »
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Dom
Nov 5, 2010, 10:07:59 AM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I see.
In the case of Dom v. Pontus, try to avoid using similar artificial
means (haha)...
On Nov 6, 12:56 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Constructing visual spatial tests is usually difficult since they are often
> solvable by other means than actually visualize the object and the rotation
> or similar operation. Why? Because given enough time you can map them into
> verbal constructs. Divide them into sub problems or use fixed known
> relations.
>
> For example the boxes could be named A to I and operations could then be
> simple additions according to pre defined rules that A is a neighbour to B
> and D and so on. In that sense it would be very similar to n-backing, you
> got a list and you update it according to a rule. This is a known problem
> with Gv-tests. By minimizing the time you can avoid such problem by forcing
> the participant to visualize rather than to compute. In the air force test
> battery some Gf tests were mixed with Gv, where you were to remember the
> answer and then shown it separately. This is also shown by that most
> Gv-tests loads equal or sometimes even more in G compared to Gv.
>
> Strange enough Gv,Gc seems to have little prediction power with the
> exception for certain areas of course.
>
> ...
>
> read more »
In the case of Dom v. Pontus, try to avoid using similar artificial
means (haha)...
On Nov 6, 12:56 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Constructing visual spatial tests is usually difficult since they are often
> solvable by other means than actually visualize the object and the rotation
> or similar operation. Why? Because given enough time you can map them into
> verbal constructs. Divide them into sub problems or use fixed known
> relations.
>
> For example the boxes could be named A to I and operations could then be
> simple additions according to pre defined rules that A is a neighbour to B
> and D and so on. In that sense it would be very similar to n-backing, you
> got a list and you update it according to a rule. This is a known problem
> with Gv-tests. By minimizing the time you can avoid such problem by forcing
> the participant to visualize rather than to compute. In the air force test
> battery some Gf tests were mixed with Gv, where you were to remember the
> answer and then shown it separately. This is also shown by that most
> Gv-tests loads equal or sometimes even more in G compared to Gv.
>
> Strange enough Gv,Gc seems to have little prediction power with the
> exception for certain areas of course.
>
>
> read more »
moe
Nov 5, 2010, 12:25:01 PM11/5/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Thanks. It took weeks to get to that level and I do cheat a little.
You're only required to give the answer to one box so I usually
concentrate on one less box than required and hope that the
probability gods are looking out for me :)
> ...
>
> read more »
You're only required to give the answer to one box so I usually
concentrate on one less box than required and hope that the
probability gods are looking out for me :)
>
> read more »
Pontus Granström
Nov 5, 2010, 3:25:15 PM11/5/10
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Seems like that strategy is more likely to succeed as the numbers of boxes grows larger.
> ...
>
> read more »
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Pontus Granström
Nov 9, 2010, 11:16:11 AM11/9/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/docs/reports_and_evidence/cjne%20paper.pdf
Some IQ and other neuropsychological data on airline pilots. Seems
like the average IQ is around 120, I guess it's fair to assume that
ATC is quite similar.
Aman Idle
Nov 9, 2010, 12:40:57 PM11/9/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
not to mention any names but some of you guys on here sound quite intelligent in your answers. Why would you even need dual n back and anything else?
Pontus Granström
Nov 9, 2010, 12:47:45 PM11/9/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
It makes me feel better due to the increased blood flow. Similar to
post-exercise feelings or taking ginko leafs. This is the main reason
I use it. To fight of anxiety and stress.
Even though someone is intelligent, getting some extra brain power in
today's world doesn't hurt. As for ATC, n-backing seems like a super
training regime. Since ATC is about
remembering planes and update and visualize. (I Just played tower sim
and it struck me how much ATC is about remembering and updating).
post-exercise feelings or taking ginko leafs. This is the main reason
I use it. To fight of anxiety and stress.
Even though someone is intelligent, getting some extra brain power in
today's world doesn't hurt. As for ATC, n-backing seems like a super
training regime. Since ATC is about
remembering planes and update and visualize. (I Just played tower sim
and it struck me how much ATC is about remembering and updating).
hallu
Dec 15, 2010, 9:09:15 AM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
On Nov 5, 1:09 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> New top score 40% I think this game really is too fast paced, but gives your
> pure visualization skills a good workout. Problem with Gv tests in general
> is that people tend to solve them with G.
This refers to the spatial working memory game on cognitivefun. I
> New top score 40% I think this game really is too fast paced, but gives your
> pure visualization skills a good workout. Problem with Gv tests in general
> is that people tend to solve them with G.
think the design of the game is flawed. It forces the player to do
many things at once with one brain component, which isn't possible.
Beating the game probably happens due to good executive functions by
updating the boxes one after another with very short breaks in
between. The more boxes the more interference you will have to fight.
I didn't bother. I've played with the arrows shown separately and
noticed that it was similar to what was happening while working on
RAPM. You've mentioned those similarities in other posts. It's storing
in memory one element and manipulating another one somewhere else.
This is the same with the arrows shown separately. You have to keep in
memory the position of two boxes and change the position of the third.
IMHO it's a good game to give it a go (with arrows shown separately).
Pontus Granström
Dec 15, 2010, 10:11:31 AM12/15/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Then the whole idea of having "visual/spatial tests" seems very idiotic, if you do not solve them with visual/spatial thinking but rather rely on sequential processing. A lot of spatial tests
are solvable by using reasoning rather than visualisation, it's a very known problem when designing tests. In the air force they tend to minimize the time so you just should "visualize" the solution.
Having said that I seem to have noticed an increased ability in solving visual problems, especially in the popular magazine I get. Solving "folded cubes" and so on seems much easier when I switched
to single n-back. I also seem to be able to "see things with my inner eye", it's almost like I can recall whole tables for books and so on without really thinking. In position n-back it's possible to recall chunks.
Position n-back also feels like taking RAPM, which also is a very visual test and as you point out RAPM processing revolves around storing an object while manipulating another, not so strange that WMC
seem to predict RAPM performance very well.
are solvable by using reasoning rather than visualisation, it's a very known problem when designing tests. In the air force they tend to minimize the time so you just should "visualize" the solution.
Having said that I seem to have noticed an increased ability in solving visual problems, especially in the popular magazine I get. Solving "folded cubes" and so on seems much easier when I switched
to single n-back. I also seem to be able to "see things with my inner eye", it's almost like I can recall whole tables for books and so on without really thinking. In position n-back it's possible to recall chunks.
Position n-back also feels like taking RAPM, which also is a very visual test and as you point out RAPM processing revolves around storing an object while manipulating another, not so strange that WMC
seem to predict RAPM performance very well.
--
hallu
Dec 15, 2010, 10:29:47 AM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
On Dec 15, 4:11 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then the whole idea of having "visual/spatial tests" seems very idiotic, if
> you do not solve them with visual/spatial thinking but rather rely on
> sequential processing. A lot of spatial tests
> are solvable by using reasoning rather than visualisation, it's a very known
> problem when designing tests.
Well, how about this
> Then the whole idea of having "visual/spatial tests" seems very idiotic, if
> you do not solve them with visual/spatial thinking but rather rely on
> sequential processing. A lot of spatial tests
> are solvable by using reasoning rather than visualisation, it's a very known
> problem when designing tests.
***
Inductive (inference of a generalized conclusion from particular
instances) and deductive reasoning (the deriving of a conclusion by
reasoning; specifically: inference in which the conclusion about
particulars follows necessarily from general or universal premises)
are generally considered the hallmark indicators of Gf
http://www.iapsych.com/chcdef.htm.
***
Also the definition of RAPM: multiple choice intelligence tests of
abstract reasoning (* from wiki)
By definition reasoning is the main part in Gf.
Pontus Granström
Dec 15, 2010, 11:28:40 AM12/15/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
All tests require inductive reasoning since it's impossible to make up the right rule if you can't verify it inductively.
For example make up the rule for 2 4 8, is it times two, add two and four or a combination? Impossible to tell.
For example make up the rule for 2 4 8, is it times two, add two and four or a combination? Impossible to tell.
--
Reece
Dec 15, 2010, 9:48:32 PM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I have noticed something similar when playing PASAT (due to n-back
training) -- an ability to visualize the numbers without really trying
which makes it much easier to compute sums because you don't need to
effortly try to remember the numbers.
> > brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com>
> > .
training) -- an ability to visualize the numbers without really trying
which makes it much easier to compute sums because you don't need to
effortly try to remember the numbers.
> > .
Pontus Granström
Dec 16, 2010, 5:48:32 AM12/16/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I must say that my experience is somewhat profound, I often see things in pictures after switching to PoB. I guess it all has to do with how you train, if you try to solve it by means of visualisation it would lead to increased activity in such brain regions. That is try to "mute" the verbal thinking and just recalling the spatial information. When taking RAPM placing pictures over each other and so on is a very important skill, especially those that requires superimposing.
That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing tetris I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated intense cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or activation of areas that we do not use so often.
If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it up" to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the foundation for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing tetris I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated intense cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or activation of areas that we do not use so often.
If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it up" to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the foundation for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
Pontus Granström
Feb 7, 2011, 6:26:48 AM2/7/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Multitasking performance is relevant in everyday life and job analyses
highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
performance and it is also related to individual differences in
multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
(WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
settings involving multitasking requirements.
highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
performance and it is also related to individual differences in
multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
(WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
settings involving multitasking requirements.
Keywords: Intelligence; Working memory; Multitasking; Processing; Storage
Pontus Granström
Jun 21, 2011, 4:18:33 AM6/21/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I found a total replica of the FEAST test, I am going to do it. It costs money though but the licence lasts for 24 months.
http://feasttest.com/
http://feasttest.com/
napoleon's_pidgin
Jun 21, 2011, 11:17:25 AM6/21/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
That "Cube Test" or spatial awareness test seems really interesting.
Visual manipulation is a skill I need to improve.
Also 25 euros isn't too bad.
On Jun 21, 4:18 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I found a total replica of the FEAST test, I am going to do it. It costs
> money though but the licence lasts for 24 months.http://feasttest.com/
Visual manipulation is a skill I need to improve.
Also 25 euros isn't too bad.
On Jun 21, 4:18 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I found a total replica of the FEAST test, I am going to do it. It costs
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Multitasking performance is relevant in everyday life and job analyses
> > highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
> > occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
> > performance and it is also related to individual differences in
> > multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
> > (WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
> > Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
> > WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
> > applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
> > shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
> > only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
> > considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
> > predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
> > suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
> > settings involving multitasking requirements.
>
> > Keywords: Intelligence; Working memory; Multitasking; Processing; Storage
>
> > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Multitasking performance is relevant in everyday life and job analyses
> > highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
> > occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
> > performance and it is also related to individual differences in
> > multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
> > (WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
> > Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
> > WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
> > applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
> > shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
> > only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
> > considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
> > predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
> > suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
> > settings involving multitasking requirements.
>
> > Keywords: Intelligence; Working memory; Multitasking; Processing; Storage
>
> > wrote:
> > > I must say that my experience is somewhat profound, I often see things in
> > > pictures after switching to PoB. I guess it all has to do with how you
> > > train, if you try to solve it by means of visualisation it would lead to
> > > increased activity in such brain regions. That is try to "mute" the
> > verbal
> > > thinking and just recalling the spatial information. When taking RAPM
> > > placing pictures over each other and so on is a very important skill,
> > > especially those that requires superimposing.
>
> > > That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so
> > > strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of
> > > math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing
> > tetris
> > > I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated
> > intense
> > > cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or
> > > activation of areas that we do not use so often.
>
> > > If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed
> > > down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it
> > up"
> > > to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the
> > foundation
> > > for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
>
> > > I must say that my experience is somewhat profound, I often see things in
> > > pictures after switching to PoB. I guess it all has to do with how you
> > > train, if you try to solve it by means of visualisation it would lead to
> > > increased activity in such brain regions. That is try to "mute" the
> > verbal
> > > thinking and just recalling the spatial information. When taking RAPM
> > > placing pictures over each other and so on is a very important skill,
> > > especially those that requires superimposing.
>
> > > That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so
> > > strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of
> > > math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing
> > tetris
> > > I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated
> > intense
> > > cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or
> > > activation of areas that we do not use so often.
>
> > > If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed
> > > down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it
> > up"
> > > to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the
> > foundation
> > > for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
>
The.Fourth.Deviation.
Jun 21, 2011, 4:21:53 PM6/21/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
try this http://www.bigfuntown.com/Game-556.html
realistic air traffic control sim.
On Jun 21, 10:17 am, "napoleon's_pidgin" <bradford...@gmail.com>
wrote:
realistic air traffic control sim.
On Jun 21, 10:17 am, "napoleon's_pidgin" <bradford...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Green
Jun 22, 2011, 1:55:26 PM6/22/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I am tempted to play around with the FEAST test prep as well. The cube
test looks challenging and entertaining.
The multiple events test looks promising, but I am discouraged that I
can't test it.
The strip display management could be a good way to build multi-
tasking skills too, I couldn't really get a good picture of what that
task entails though.
On Jun 21, 3:18 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I found a total replica of the FEAST test, I am going to do it. It costs
> money though but the licence lasts for 24 months.http://feasttest.com/
> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
test looks challenging and entertaining.
The multiple events test looks promising, but I am discouraged that I
can't test it.
The strip display management could be a good way to build multi-
tasking skills too, I couldn't really get a good picture of what that
task entails though.
On Jun 21, 3:18 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I found a total replica of the FEAST test, I am going to do it. It costs
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Multitasking performance is relevant in everyday life and job analyses
> > highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
> > occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
> > performance and it is also related to individual differences in
> > multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
> > (WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
> > Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
> > WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
> > applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
> > shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
> > only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
> > considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
> > predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
> > suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
> > settings involving multitasking requirements.
>
> > Keywords: Intelligence; Working memory; Multitasking; Processing; Storage
>
> > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Multitasking performance is relevant in everyday life and job analyses
> > highlight the influence of multitasking over several diverse
> > occupations. Intelligence is the best single predictor of overall job
> > performance and it is also related to individual differences in
> > multitasking. However, it has been shown that working memory capacity
> > (WMC) is related to both intelligence and multitasking performance.
> > Here we consider the simultaneous relationship among intelligence,
> > WMC, and multitasking. The sample comprised three hundred and two
> > applicants for air traffic control training courses. The main finding
> > shows that intelligence and WMC are both related to multitasking, but
> > only WMC predicts multitasking when their simultaneous relationship is
> > considered. Furthermore, the processing and storage components of WMC
> > predict multitasking performance. From an applied perspective it is
> > suggested that WMC might be a relevant measure for personnel selection
> > settings involving multitasking requirements.
>
> > Keywords: Intelligence; Working memory; Multitasking; Processing; Storage
>
> > wrote:
> > > I must say that my experience is somewhat profound, I often see things in
> > > pictures after switching to PoB. I guess it all has to do with how you
> > > train, if you try to solve it by means of visualisation it would lead to
> > > increased activity in such brain regions. That is try to "mute" the
> > verbal
> > > thinking and just recalling the spatial information. When taking RAPM
> > > placing pictures over each other and so on is a very important skill,
> > > especially those that requires superimposing.
>
> > > That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so
> > > strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of
> > > math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing
> > tetris
> > > I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated
> > intense
> > > cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or
> > > activation of areas that we do not use so often.
>
> > > If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed
> > > down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it
> > up"
> > > to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the
> > foundation
> > > for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
>
> > > I must say that my experience is somewhat profound, I often see things in
> > > pictures after switching to PoB. I guess it all has to do with how you
> > > train, if you try to solve it by means of visualisation it would lead to
> > > increased activity in such brain regions. That is try to "mute" the
> > verbal
> > > thinking and just recalling the spatial information. When taking RAPM
> > > placing pictures over each other and so on is a very important skill,
> > > especially those that requires superimposing.
>
> > > That brain activity can cause new thinking patterns is perhaps not so
> > > strange. I remember when I took the first math course, after 3 months of
> > > math you started to look for factorizations everywhere, when playing
> > tetris
> > > I started to see the blocks in my dreams. All this kind of repeated
> > intense
> > > cognitive performance perhaps leads us into new ways of thinking and/or
> > > activation of areas that we do not use so often.
>
> > > If n-backing indeed increase IQ, does that mean that we all are "dumbed
> > > down". That what we really do is not improve our IQ but rather "kicks it
> > up"
> > > to a level where we really belong or does n-backing improve the
> > foundation
> > > for solving Gf-problems above our current max?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The.Fourth.Deviation.
Jun 22, 2011, 7:12:31 PM6/22/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
check out the sim i posted. very challenging and requires lots of
multi-task and wm skill.
> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
multi-task and wm skill.
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