Is it "cheating" ?

[gael.deest]

Hello,

I've started training with Brain Workshop a few days ago. At first I
found it pretty hard, but quickly managed to reach D3B, D4B and even
D5B from time to time.

Yesterday I realized that I was using some (pretty natural) algorithm.
For example, let's say I'm playing a simple 3-back game with only
numbers, with the following sequence:

1 2 1 1 3 2 4 3 2

I first memorize the following three numbers in a "mental" buffer:

1 2 1

The next number is 1 ; I compare it with the first number in the
buffer, it is a match.

The next one is 3 ; I compare it with the second number in the buffer,
no match. I mentally replace 2 with 3, and the buffer now looks like
this:

1 3 1

Next is 2 ; no match => replacement:

1 3 2

The buffer is "full", I reset the position to 1. Next number is 4, no
match => replacement.

4 3 2

Position 2. Number 3. Match => Do nothing

4 3 2

Position 3. Number 2. Match => Do nothing.



It proves to be a powerful technique. However, it means I tend to
memorize the sequence by chunks of n. I'm not sure it is really the
way to go, although I can't see any other practical way of "playing".

How are you doing it ?

Thanks !

Gaël

[Thomas Joy]

The idea, in my experience, is to build a new mental "sense" of which
numbers and positions have occurred.

What I did was simply relax and play it as a fun video game, not
straining myself to consciously memorize each square or letter.

While I haven't been able to run Brain Workshop because of technical
limitations of my computer, I have gotten excellent scores on another
implementation of D4B using only my sense of memory, and not lists.

[Tim De Lange]

Nope, not cheating. The nature of DNB is to stretch you to the end of
your strategy anyway. A good strategy will get you high N. The number
doesn't mean much, the important thing is to operate at your highest N
level and try to improve. When at the limit of your strategy, DNB
seems to exercise your brain the same way as without a strategy.

[gael.deest]

On Mar 21, 1:09 am, Thomas Joy <twjoy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The idea, in my experience, is to build a new mental "sense" of which
> numbers and positions have occurred.
>
> What I did was simply relax and play it as a fun video game, not
> straining myself to consciously memorize each square or letter.

That's what I first tried to do. Without any strategy, I seem to have
problems memorizing the order in which positions / letters occur. That
is, I can say for sure that this position / letter occurred a few
turns ago, but I cannot be certain that it was *n* turns ago.

[gael.deest]

On Mar 21, 6:47 am, Tim De Lange <timdela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nope, not cheating. The nature of DNB is to stretch you to the end of
> your strategy anyway. A good strategy will get you high N. The number
> doesn't mean much, the important thing is to operate at your highest N
> level and try to improve. When at the limit of your strategy, DNB
> seems to exercise your brain the same way as without a strategy.

That makes sense, thanks !

Gaël

[Thomas Joy]

> That's what I first tried to do. Without any strategy, I seem to have
> problems memorizing the order in which positions / letters occur. That
> is, I can say for sure that this position / letter occurred a few
> turns ago, but I cannot be certain that it was *n* turns ago.

That's how I was doing it. If I found that I was remembering beyond
the N, i turned up the difficulty.

[jack nguyen]

I finally broke down today and read Gael's algorithm for getting a higher score which is rather clever (thanks for sharing that!)

However I almost wish I didn't read it now. I went from a 4-back to 5-6 in one to two days and I could easily see myself scoring much higher. I finally decided on using a "trick" to get higher n-back because I got bummed out about all these people hitting 12-back and so on on the second day. I noticed immediately that my brain didn't feel as taxed or as drained. I felt as if I was just using some shortcut and not really pushing myself as if I just tried to hold everything in my head.

despite having only been at 3-back after a month of training and 4-back after two months solid, I felt much, much sharper than ever. Despite having a crappy n-back score.

I have been really trying not to use any strategy as the original jaeggi study implies that it's more important to push your brain than it is to get to 100-back or something ridiculously high. This makes sense to me since this is the first technique that actually works at improving fluid intelligence and it works by training your working memory in an ingenously simple way.

I personally feel that If you are just coming up with mental hacks to get a higher N then this will only help you get better at doing n-back tests. It kind of reminds me of all those 10-year old black belts from various McDojo's  I knew who would rather have a black belt than the actual fighting skill.

--
cheers,
jack
----------------------------------------
http://sites.google.com/site/eviljack
http://www.linkedin.com/in/eviljack

[MR]

I've been using the same method for a while now, but it just came
naturally rather than having been developed as a "hack".

I don't know why one would consider it a hack since it makes use of
working memory without any mnemonic devices that would remove any
reliance on short-term memory. For example, at n = 6, you have to hold
6 + 6 items in your head at all times and manipulate them as the next
items are being presented to you. You are constantly updating the 6 +
6 items in your head, and acting upon the matches and non-matches. As
far as I can tell, doing this relies solely on working memory, and as
such should be taxing it maximally, with the goal of increasing what
Gael called "the buffer" (ie working memory capacity).

With ongoing practice, one notices that the "buffer" increases,
accommodating a number of items that previously seemed impossible. One
also eventually notices that as the "buffer" increases, this so called
strategy no longer needs to be used at the lower levels that no longer
tax working memory capacity.

To me it's less of a strategy, and more of a manifestation that one's
working memory capacity is being taxed at its fullest, requiring one
to be constantly attending to the items lest they disappear from
memory before the n'th item is presented.

Anyway, this is just what I have gathered from my own observations, I
am open to and would welcome more discussion on the matter.

Finally, don't worry about a jump in your score, the progress slows
down fairly quickly, though it does seem to continue if you persist
for long enough: the owner of the brain fitness pro n-back software
keeps a log of his progress on his site which shows that though his
improvement has slowed down to a crawl, he's still improving after 108
sessions, with an average score of 7.65 (having hit n = 9 three times
during that session). If anyone has the time and inclination, it would
be interesting to graph the progress of the few people on that site
who have documented their score after each training session to get a
sense of how performance changes in relation to # of sessions.

M

On Mar 23, 6:22 pm, jack nguyen <very...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I finally broke down today and read Gael's algorithm for getting a higher
> score which is rather clever (thanks for sharing that!)
>
> However I almost wish I didn't read it now. I went from a 4-back to 5-6 in
> one to two days and I could easily see myself scoring much higher. I finally
> decided on using a "trick" to get higher n-back because I got bummed out
> about all these people hitting 12-back and so on on the second day. I
> noticed immediately that my brain didn't feel as taxed or as drained. I felt
> as if I was just using some shortcut and not really pushing myself as if I
> just tried to hold everything in my head.
>
> despite having only been at 3-back after a month of training and 4-back
> after two months solid, I felt much, much sharper than ever. Despite having
> a crappy n-back score.
>
> I have been really trying not to use any strategy as the original jaeggi
> study implies that it's more important to push your brain than it is to get
> to 100-back or something ridiculously high. This makes sense to me since
> this is the first technique that actually works at improving fluid
> intelligence and it works by training your working memory in an ingenously
> simple way.
>
> I personally feel that If you are just coming up with mental hacks to get a
> higher N then this will only help you get better at doing n-back tests. It
> kind of reminds me of all those 10-year old black belts from various
> McDojo's  I knew who would rather have a black belt than the actual fighting
> skill.
>

[Ashirgo]

For now, I do not really believe that you can come up with any
technique for n-back task as effective as a simple (but utmost and
complete) concentration.

As many stated, our fluid intelligence is most of all a strength of
focus and ability to process and handle short term memory data.
Therefore I conclude that the key to success is your focus during n-
back task.

And, as some may add, the ability to mentally block out all non
related and irrelevant thoughts (I've noticed that my n-back result
gets worse, should I only think about anything else during the task).

Regards!