There's something I still don't get.....

[Awesome]

Hey,
Okay so I've been reading that while practising Dual N-back you
shouldn't rehearse the last position or sound.Now usually I try to
memorize them,for example I'm on Dual 4-back and try to memorize the
1st 4 positions and sound and keep trying to memorize the rest,so is
that wrong?
I reached 93% and went to Dual 5 back but then went back to 4 back due
to low scores,so now I'm getting above and sometimes below 50% on 4-
back so I'm worried that I may be doing something wrong.....

[Zaraki]

just keep a list in your head that you keep updating for every new
stimuli(discarding the last and adding the new. Alternatively just try
to keep them in your head without subvocalizing for the intuitive
method.

[Jonathan Toomim]

The belief that you shouldn't rehearse is not based on any of the
published n-back literature. The studies that have reported benefits
from n-back training did not give their subjects instructions to
rehearse or not rehearse. Instead, they were allowed to do whatever felt
more natural to them. It is known that n-back training with whatever
type of strategy seems most natural results in improvements that
transfer to other domains. It is not known whether using any particular
strategy or using whatever strategy seems less natural also results in
those benefits. I suggest you do has been shown before to work for
groups and do whatever feels natural.

Jonathan

On 7/11/2011 2:00 PM, Zaraki wrote:
> Okay so I've been reading that while practising Dual N-back you

> shouldn't rehearse the last position or sound...

[whoisbambam]

i am with the other two.

do whatever works.

it is probable that subvocalizing will limit how far you may get as it
seems impossible to move your vocal cords fast enough in 3seconds when
you get to d9b or possibly less.

but i do subvocalize (heck, i used to say it out loud, pretty loud
actually) and i have even pointed at the screen for the positions
before, as if i were pressing the screen.

not that i recommend that..........just saying i have done 'worse'
things probably.


i am getting consistent 80s in d5b nowadays. i had some weird things
happen too. One day i just tried d5b on STANDARD settings after not
doing dnb for awhile, and for like 4 games or so i was getting 80s.

the next day i tried that and i couldnt do that.

but then i WAS able to struggle thru dnb5 shortly thereafter.

this may indicate my brain was in the process of 'improving' in some
way, and it did this weird phenomenon.

[Wilo]

Ok I understand now that's how I've always been working and now I feel
comfortable with it so thanks a lot guys,really appreciate the quick
responses.

[☉]

I visualize more than rehearse. Visualizing is like seeing the entire sequence (letters can be visualized, too) more or less simultaneously, so I'm not too sure how one would rehearse that, anyway.

This has always been my first and most natural means of doing n-back. No one told me or taught me to do this, and I've been quite happy with it.

argumzio

[whoisbambam]

argumzio,

i did do this for awhile.

how do you 'visualize' the letters on the same square? how large, what
relation to each other etc?

once there are more than TWO letters or TWO blue square hits on the
same grid position, i get confused.

:(

therefore, i dropped this idea.

[☉]

whoisbambam, all I can provide are analogies, so one of the ways of thinking about this is in terms of focal point, i.e., the one that is more recent takes the foreground and the ones that are more distal go in the background.

If you understand which one is in the foreground, then the others "intuitively" fall into place. Facility with this comes with practice. After all, I didn't start at D8B, but rather at n=2, and worked my way up  from there (apparently somewhat rapidly).

As sessions progress, I would structure them in terms of vector geometry patterns, something I've explained elsewhere on this forum.

argumzio

[bofu]

Force yourself to speed read to overcome constant vocalization.
http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Speed_Reading_Tactics_7_Tips_for_Overcoming_Sub-Vocalization.html

[hallu]

Obviously it works differently for everyone. My focal point is on the current n-back, not the most recent item. I store the most recent item in the background. For the letters, I have sub-vocalized only the n-back letter leaving the rest somehow in the memory. Anyway I do not see why anyone would want to visualize the letters on the squares, since the stimuli are independent from each other. If I've ever visualized the letters, then they looked like being written in line on a slip of paper. Also sub-vocalizing and visualizing seems to be connected in my brain. Especially when I exercise, counting my reps '1,2,3,4' makes me see them too, but this is very vague. Even sub-vocalizing n-back letters made me see glimpses of their shapes.

The funny thing is with the piano n-back. Last time I've played it, I could get better scores only after seeing the sounds as a function that goes up and down. I picture the line actually. But in the end this is nothing else than a simpler version of seeing the notes on the music sheet.