can't get past 4-Back
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workinghard
Dec 10, 2010, 5:57:44 PM12/10/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
It's been two weeks since I started. played 20+ sessions a day. I hear
people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
bad comparatively.
I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
(130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
me back severely.
people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
bad comparatively.
I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
(130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
me back severely.
Reece
Dec 10, 2010, 11:55:45 PM12/10/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
The fact that you reached Dual 4-Back so quickly is quite evident of
your high IQ (and I don't mean that sarcastically -- most of us took a
LOT longer than 2 weeks to get to where we could routinely obtain
passing scores on dual 4-back).
Keep in mind that dual 4-back requires that either all four
immediately previous position elements or all four immediately
previous sound elements be remembered (and updated accordingly as new
trials are presented) to even stand a *chance* at having a better
score than that which could be obtained from the small probability
associated with correctly guessing an n-back stimuli match (seemingly)
without having any particular intuitively-derived inclination for the
correct answer.
Depending on your "chance of guaranteed match" setting (which I am
assuming are the default or more difficult), there is most likely
between a 12.5% (one in 8) and 32.5% (almost one in 3) chance that any
presented stimuli (eg. sound element or position element) will, "in
the long run" (with reference to mathematical probability), match the
stimuli which was presented n=4 positions ago. I believe the default
settings are (in the config.ini file which can be modified if you open
up the Brain Workshop package) chance_of_guaranteed_match = 0.20
which, in addition to the inherent 1/8 (=12.5%) chance due to there
being 8 positions and 8 letters/digits/etc (an 8-element subset is
chosen when a game starts), means you would have a 0.20 + 0.125 =
0.325 --> 32.5% chance of getting the correct answer if we assume it
is possible to have no "inclination" whatsoever to go on.
Long story, short, assuming you have the default settings, even if you
know the correct answer 100% of the time, only "on average" ("in the
long run, etc...") will you be rewarded for doing so with a correct
match. I am assuming you are using Manual Mode here, as Jaeggi mode
has a different and much easier scoring, which I don't think would be
causing you problems.
With a 32.5% chance of there being a position match and a 32.5% chance
of there being an auditory match, there is only a ~ 10.6% (0.325 *
0.325 = .106) chance of there being *both* position and auditory
matches, *however*, if you want to score high on dual n-back
(regardless of n-back level), you will have to remember the auditory
and position matches each time (eg. you can, for example, multiply
the .106 chance of a dual match by the percentage of the time (eg. 50%
--> .106 * .05 = .0053 = 5.3%) you believe you have been missing the
double match (be it one element or both elements) to obtain an
approximation for how much your score is getting hurt by these errors
(might need to increase/decrease that figure which is currently
assuming you correctly match on average one out of two stimuli on dual
matches). You could do the same for the auditory and position elements
and clearly are a smart guy, so I won't waste my time elaborating more
on this since I'm sure I already did far more than you would have most
likely needed (but did so since you're new to n-back and maybe haven't
"explored" the config.ini file yet and thus weren't sure how exactly
things were scored, so I hope this helped if that was the case).
Because the long run is irrelevant to any particular game, scores can
get hit pretty hard on occasion if you end up with a more difficult
session than the laws of probability would have "predicted" you to
likely obtain. One thing you can do if you have been noticing some
rather large game to game score discrepancies would be to use a larger
number of trials per session -- eg. make the laws of probability work
in your favor by making these subjectively or objectively more
difficult sessions rarer events. This might also apply if you're one
of the many members who are better at position or sound elements and
routinely have a noticeable scoring difference between the two -- a
lot of your stronger element being "correct matches" in a particular
game will make it easier for you [though perhaps more difficult for
someone else with different strengths].
I've been playing for a couple years now and spend most of my dual n-
back time playing Dual 4-Back with modified settings
(chance_of_guaranteed_match reduced to 0.05 and chance_of_interference
increased to 0.30 which make it considerably more difficult), however,
after all this time, I still can "only manage" around 75% on Dual 5-
Back with the default settings. Polar, a member of this board,
conducted a poll awhile back on members of this group and the "average
member" was playing either dual-4-back and dual-5-back. I can't
remember what the average number of months played was, but I believe
it was 9 months (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), so you're
doing progressing very nicely. Most members (who have shared their
opinion on this matter) have found successful performance at n-back
levels 4,5, and 6 to have required more time investment than other
lower or higher levels. Most people find N=2 to be pretty easy, people
may or may not find N=3 easy after a few days/weeks depending on their
working memory capacity, and most people will need to put in some real
time in order to succeed at levels 4+, since that capacity [whatever
it may be that is holding them back -- eg. working memory, "chunking
ability" (more relevant in modes incorporating 3/4+ stimuli),
executive functioning (eg. attention/focus), "g" (certainly no worries
about the problem being the latter in your case lol), etc] just wasn't
there initially.
What you may find useful to do is to count how many incorrect answers
you provide in a particular game -- dividing that by the number of
trials should give you a better understanding of how often you are
actually making mistakes, since 25 trials --> 25 possible sound + 25
possible position matches (since even if many trials aren't dual
matches, Brain Workshop will let you register every trial as such
anyway [resulting in incorrect answer(s)]. Out of all this, you'll
probably get around 10-20 (just a ballpark figure, due to the random
nature associated with the process) stimuli which will match the nth
trial preceding them. So technically, it's possible (though unlikely)
that a given game could have 16 n-back matches (let's assume 8 sound +
8 position) and you could get all of these wrong (because you didn't
register any of them as having occurred) but actually get everything
else right (eg. on the other 34 trials, you never mistakenly entered
any of these trials as having n-back stimuli matches). The game I just
described is actually quite real (it's what would happen if you did
nothing at all) and the score you obtain --zero percent-- will be no
different whether you started the game and went out for a coffee or
actually tried your best and had a very respectable performance but
incredibly bad luck (since making no mistakes on the other 34 trials
would mean you correctly identified the first 3 out of every 4 trials
as not being matches and would suggest you're probably capable of
near-100% performance on dual 3-back).
You may find increasing or decreasing the interference and guaranteed
match settings (respectively) to be helpful despite it seeming
somewhat counterintuitive that one should make the task even harder
than one is already finding it. With a lower guaranteed match setting,
the sound and position elements will be more random (eg. less
"unearned matches" due to a more random [and thus less predictable]
sequence). Similarly, higher interference settings will make make it
more difficult for our brain to try and compensate for any
difficulties we are having with the task at hand -- eg. if we treat
the dual n-back play area as a 3x3 matrix, we could view it as there
being 8 possible entries and associate position elements as having
occurred in row/column 1/2/3. If the last n=4 stimuli were all in row
1 and 2, you don't even need to remember where they were to know that
any position elements in row 3 will not be matches for the next 4
trials. Opinions are fairly divided on this board about whether
strategizing is helpful (eg. certainly for game scores) or harmful
(making the task "easier", though many will say that you could just
"bump up" the n-back level in such a case). I'll try not to reopen
that can of worms, however I try my best to avoid using more elaborate
strategies such as the one I just mentioned (some people use much more
"seemingly intuitive" strategies such as rehearsing the letters are
trying to track the positions with their eyes which I think is very
helpful when trying to play at or above your otherwise maximum n-back
level). The interference setting will generate "near-matches" (and is
explained better than I possibly can in the config.ini file in the
interference settings section) which should give you a pretty good
idea of whether you're genuinely flexing (and training) your cognitive
muscle, or merely getting better at playing an academic research-
backed brain game using methods which may or may not have been used by
participants in the published research.
your high IQ (and I don't mean that sarcastically -- most of us took a
LOT longer than 2 weeks to get to where we could routinely obtain
passing scores on dual 4-back).
Keep in mind that dual 4-back requires that either all four
immediately previous position elements or all four immediately
previous sound elements be remembered (and updated accordingly as new
trials are presented) to even stand a *chance* at having a better
score than that which could be obtained from the small probability
associated with correctly guessing an n-back stimuli match (seemingly)
without having any particular intuitively-derived inclination for the
correct answer.
Depending on your "chance of guaranteed match" setting (which I am
assuming are the default or more difficult), there is most likely
between a 12.5% (one in 8) and 32.5% (almost one in 3) chance that any
presented stimuli (eg. sound element or position element) will, "in
the long run" (with reference to mathematical probability), match the
stimuli which was presented n=4 positions ago. I believe the default
settings are (in the config.ini file which can be modified if you open
up the Brain Workshop package) chance_of_guaranteed_match = 0.20
which, in addition to the inherent 1/8 (=12.5%) chance due to there
being 8 positions and 8 letters/digits/etc (an 8-element subset is
chosen when a game starts), means you would have a 0.20 + 0.125 =
0.325 --> 32.5% chance of getting the correct answer if we assume it
is possible to have no "inclination" whatsoever to go on.
Long story, short, assuming you have the default settings, even if you
know the correct answer 100% of the time, only "on average" ("in the
long run, etc...") will you be rewarded for doing so with a correct
match. I am assuming you are using Manual Mode here, as Jaeggi mode
has a different and much easier scoring, which I don't think would be
causing you problems.
With a 32.5% chance of there being a position match and a 32.5% chance
of there being an auditory match, there is only a ~ 10.6% (0.325 *
0.325 = .106) chance of there being *both* position and auditory
matches, *however*, if you want to score high on dual n-back
(regardless of n-back level), you will have to remember the auditory
and position matches each time (eg. you can, for example, multiply
the .106 chance of a dual match by the percentage of the time (eg. 50%
--> .106 * .05 = .0053 = 5.3%) you believe you have been missing the
double match (be it one element or both elements) to obtain an
approximation for how much your score is getting hurt by these errors
(might need to increase/decrease that figure which is currently
assuming you correctly match on average one out of two stimuli on dual
matches). You could do the same for the auditory and position elements
and clearly are a smart guy, so I won't waste my time elaborating more
on this since I'm sure I already did far more than you would have most
likely needed (but did so since you're new to n-back and maybe haven't
"explored" the config.ini file yet and thus weren't sure how exactly
things were scored, so I hope this helped if that was the case).
Because the long run is irrelevant to any particular game, scores can
get hit pretty hard on occasion if you end up with a more difficult
session than the laws of probability would have "predicted" you to
likely obtain. One thing you can do if you have been noticing some
rather large game to game score discrepancies would be to use a larger
number of trials per session -- eg. make the laws of probability work
in your favor by making these subjectively or objectively more
difficult sessions rarer events. This might also apply if you're one
of the many members who are better at position or sound elements and
routinely have a noticeable scoring difference between the two -- a
lot of your stronger element being "correct matches" in a particular
game will make it easier for you [though perhaps more difficult for
someone else with different strengths].
I've been playing for a couple years now and spend most of my dual n-
back time playing Dual 4-Back with modified settings
(chance_of_guaranteed_match reduced to 0.05 and chance_of_interference
increased to 0.30 which make it considerably more difficult), however,
after all this time, I still can "only manage" around 75% on Dual 5-
Back with the default settings. Polar, a member of this board,
conducted a poll awhile back on members of this group and the "average
member" was playing either dual-4-back and dual-5-back. I can't
remember what the average number of months played was, but I believe
it was 9 months (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), so you're
doing progressing very nicely. Most members (who have shared their
opinion on this matter) have found successful performance at n-back
levels 4,5, and 6 to have required more time investment than other
lower or higher levels. Most people find N=2 to be pretty easy, people
may or may not find N=3 easy after a few days/weeks depending on their
working memory capacity, and most people will need to put in some real
time in order to succeed at levels 4+, since that capacity [whatever
it may be that is holding them back -- eg. working memory, "chunking
ability" (more relevant in modes incorporating 3/4+ stimuli),
executive functioning (eg. attention/focus), "g" (certainly no worries
about the problem being the latter in your case lol), etc] just wasn't
there initially.
What you may find useful to do is to count how many incorrect answers
you provide in a particular game -- dividing that by the number of
trials should give you a better understanding of how often you are
actually making mistakes, since 25 trials --> 25 possible sound + 25
possible position matches (since even if many trials aren't dual
matches, Brain Workshop will let you register every trial as such
anyway [resulting in incorrect answer(s)]. Out of all this, you'll
probably get around 10-20 (just a ballpark figure, due to the random
nature associated with the process) stimuli which will match the nth
trial preceding them. So technically, it's possible (though unlikely)
that a given game could have 16 n-back matches (let's assume 8 sound +
8 position) and you could get all of these wrong (because you didn't
register any of them as having occurred) but actually get everything
else right (eg. on the other 34 trials, you never mistakenly entered
any of these trials as having n-back stimuli matches). The game I just
described is actually quite real (it's what would happen if you did
nothing at all) and the score you obtain --zero percent-- will be no
different whether you started the game and went out for a coffee or
actually tried your best and had a very respectable performance but
incredibly bad luck (since making no mistakes on the other 34 trials
would mean you correctly identified the first 3 out of every 4 trials
as not being matches and would suggest you're probably capable of
near-100% performance on dual 3-back).
You may find increasing or decreasing the interference and guaranteed
match settings (respectively) to be helpful despite it seeming
somewhat counterintuitive that one should make the task even harder
than one is already finding it. With a lower guaranteed match setting,
the sound and position elements will be more random (eg. less
"unearned matches" due to a more random [and thus less predictable]
sequence). Similarly, higher interference settings will make make it
more difficult for our brain to try and compensate for any
difficulties we are having with the task at hand -- eg. if we treat
the dual n-back play area as a 3x3 matrix, we could view it as there
being 8 possible entries and associate position elements as having
occurred in row/column 1/2/3. If the last n=4 stimuli were all in row
1 and 2, you don't even need to remember where they were to know that
any position elements in row 3 will not be matches for the next 4
trials. Opinions are fairly divided on this board about whether
strategizing is helpful (eg. certainly for game scores) or harmful
(making the task "easier", though many will say that you could just
"bump up" the n-back level in such a case). I'll try not to reopen
that can of worms, however I try my best to avoid using more elaborate
strategies such as the one I just mentioned (some people use much more
"seemingly intuitive" strategies such as rehearsing the letters are
trying to track the positions with their eyes which I think is very
helpful when trying to play at or above your otherwise maximum n-back
level). The interference setting will generate "near-matches" (and is
explained better than I possibly can in the config.ini file in the
interference settings section) which should give you a pretty good
idea of whether you're genuinely flexing (and training) your cognitive
muscle, or merely getting better at playing an academic research-
backed brain game using methods which may or may not have been used by
participants in the published research.
Jonathan Toomim
Dec 10, 2010, 11:59:38 PM12/10/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
No correlations have been found between maximum N-level achieved and
IQ gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training
and IQ gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely
between individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything.
Keep up the good work. See if you can get your percent correct scores
at N=4 higher. If you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able
to take things to the next level.
IQ gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training
and IQ gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely
between individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything.
Keep up the good work. See if you can get your percent correct scores
at N=4 higher. If you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able
to take things to the next level.
Jonathan
Pontus Granström
Dec 11, 2010, 6:39:49 AM12/11/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I struggled at level four for a long time (going there quite quickly), but finally something happened and I can complete level 4 without a problem nowadays. What I have noticed is that the spatial part is the problem for me, if I do dual-7-back or Po7b I score roughly the same, adding the consonant stream doesn't seem to make much difference. I seem to score equal on Po8b and Po7b as well. For me however, a clear difference in dream recalling occurred at Po7b and Po8b. Might be stronger activation of the "dream area" that higher n-level means. Also, higher n-level means more blood and oxygen, which means a clearer mind. I've been nagging about "post workout feelings", which usually means more blood flow. Brain training seem to follow the same principals as "ordinary" training. Perhaps not so strange when studying it at a cellular level.
The reason N-level seem to be unimportant for Gf gains might be that it's not the amount of information that is important but rather the mimicking of thinking, as you know, g is characterized by non automated working memory processes.
Things like sustained attention (beta activity) and actually trying to learn something (g-activity) might be strong contributors as well. It would be really interesting to get the neurological foundation both for local and long term variation.
I remember when I played thinkfast (if there's anyone who got it running let me know). There seems to be both local and long term variation, going from the very low to BrainMaster+ within weeks. It was easy to see that the average value seemed to increase in statistical significant way (lowest score day 3 were always higher than highest score day 1 and so on).
The reason N-level seem to be unimportant for Gf gains might be that it's not the amount of information that is important but rather the mimicking of thinking, as you know, g is characterized by non automated working memory processes.
Things like sustained attention (beta activity) and actually trying to learn something (g-activity) might be strong contributors as well. It would be really interesting to get the neurological foundation both for local and long term variation.
I remember when I played thinkfast (if there's anyone who got it running let me know). There seems to be both local and long term variation, going from the very low to BrainMaster+ within weeks. It was easy to see that the average value seemed to increase in statistical significant way (lowest score day 3 were always higher than highest score day 1 and so on).
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Oinchack'Olp
Dec 11, 2010, 11:57:59 AM12/11/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Probably there isn't something wrong with you, for I had the same
problem. The first 4 days (30 min / day) I trained 4-back I got never
higher than 25 percent, and it took me >2 weeks to get past 4-back.
Now 4-back is no problem to me anymore. Brain apparently accustumes by
and by.
problem. The first 4 days (30 min / day) I trained 4-back I got never
higher than 25 percent, and it took me >2 weeks to get past 4-back.
Now 4-back is no problem to me anymore. Brain apparently accustumes by
and by.
polar
Dec 12, 2010, 6:18:29 AM12/12/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I played with thinkfast some three years ago, its nice software - I
intuitively liked the last game there (actually reminds me of n-back).
> > .
intuitively liked the last game there (actually reminds me of n-back).
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:59 AM, Jonathan Toomim <jtoo...@jtoomim.org>wrote:
>
>
>
> > No correlations have been found between maximum N-level achieved and IQ
> > gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training and IQ
> > gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely between
> > individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything. Keep up the good
> > work. See if you can get your percent correct scores at N=4 higher. If
> > you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able to take things to the next
> > level.
>
> > Jonathan
>
> > On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, workinghard wrote:
>
> > It's been two weeks since I started. played 20+ sessions a day. I hear
> >> people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
>
> >> I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
> >> bad comparatively.
>
> >> I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
> >> affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
> >> getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
> >> (130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
> >> me back severely.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
>
>
>
> > No correlations have been found between maximum N-level achieved and IQ
> > gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training and IQ
> > gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely between
> > individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything. Keep up the good
> > work. See if you can get your percent correct scores at N=4 higher. If
> > you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able to take things to the next
> > level.
>
> > Jonathan
>
> > On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, workinghard wrote:
>
> > It's been two weeks since I started. played 20+ sessions a day. I hear
> >> people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
>
> >> I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
> >> bad comparatively.
>
> >> I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
> >> affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
> >> getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
> >> (130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
> >> me back severely.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
Durantula35
Dec 13, 2010, 3:07:37 AM12/13/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
In the Jaeggi study, they reached an average of 5NB in just 3 weeks.
The average started out was 3NB and then it increased linearly to 5NB.
The average started out was 3NB and then it increased linearly to 5NB.
whoisbambam
Dec 15, 2010, 1:13:15 AM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I would love to have a 130+ IQ, so count your blessings on that since
most of it was probably genetically acquired.
As for DNB4, that too is admirable IMO after 2weeks.
I had trouble with DNB2.
I have been very inconsistent now (maybe Nbacking once a week on
average), but I am now doing DNB3 with about 10sessions at
100%........I can quit nbacking for a couple weeks, and it only takes
me a few sessions to get my brain back in tune (the first session is
like 50%, then 70%, 80%, 90% session progressions)
I have some recommendations for what it is worth (but realize that I
suck. my IQ is probably 100, and, uh, I just told you i am an Nback
three-er)
1. Do what Reece says.........increase your interference on Nback4 and
play with the timings--increasing and decreasing, until you are superb
at Nback4...........then settings back to 0 for Nback5 and struggle
with it.
2. If you are not doing exercise, consider it. Cardiovascular
25minutes a day at approximately 70% maximal heart rate range, 5days a
week, consider strength training 3days a week, major muscle groups
only.
3. Consider caffeine and sugar source--that is what i did in college.
But I would consider taking a Vivarin, cutting it into fourths, and
take a fourth along with 1/4tsp table sugar and a banana. Take this
10minutes before Nbacking, preferrably Nback upon getting up, and an
hour before bed, as long as you are rested. If a fourth does not work,
try a half, but i wouldnt do a full vivarin as i think it is
excessive. You could do this hourly if you have to study, say, 4hours
a day or something............so that would be 4 doses.
4. Consider omega3 source even tho i personally dont seem to be
affected by it. Consider omegabrite, but i have tried several ratios.
5. Consider the three doses of creatine monohydrate. I do this at
least twice a day. I put in 1 level tsp (probly 4gms) of creatine with
1tablespoon jarrow nonflavored whey protein with 1TBsp baking cocoa
with 4packets splenda and shake and drink.
6. Consider sulbutiamine. I got mine from smartpowders. I mix half of
1/4tsp in 1/2 TBSP virgin olive oil, mixing with the point of a steak
knife in the tablespoon.......i then swallow that, followed by a gulp
of 1% chocolate milk. I only take that stuff a couple times a week,
before Nbacking........seems to make me more alert.
7. Consider powdered cdp choline.......i take 1/4tsp purchased from
cerebralhealth in bulk (scroll down the page). I dont feel anything,
but theoretically it should help with acetylcholine production.
8. Adequate rest, good nutrition
I have tried hundreds of supplements over the years, and I have even
tried pharmaceuticals. Omega does not seem to help me mentally, but i
take it for other benefits. cdp choline, or citicholine, is the stuff
in 5hour energy. If you take your caffeine on an empty stomach along
with that cdp choline and sugar (not the banana), you probably will
feel the effect..........I take creatine primarily because Jonathan
recommended it. However, I took it long before meeting Jonathan, and I
did notice that it, for whatever reason, makes me feel better, esp.
with exercise routines--i seem to recover better....probly some
placebo effect.
I alternate that with the sulbutiamine so i dont become tolerant of
either.
I think if you follow this routine religiously for 60days, that you
will notice an effect..........and i would just continue it
indefinitely.
As for nicotine, piracetam/racetams, aricept, deprenyl, hydergine,
ddavp nasally..........i think you would be disappointed.
A caffeine alternative without diuretic or external stimulatory effect
would be modafinil. But, you would need a prescription to legally use
it in the USA, and I imagine it would not be a good idea to use more
than 4days in a row. It would help with the attention/vigilance,
probably in a similar fashion to hourly doses of 25-50mg (not to
exceed 400mg/day) caffeine with the 1/4tsp table sugar.
Some have used overseas generic versions with variable results, and I
have no idea what generic brand would prove most beneficial if you
decided to take that illegal route. Keep in mind that it is a schedule
IV medication as is valium--if you dont feel comfortable importing
valium, then likewise you should be as wary to import modafinil.
I have never purchased modafinil overseas due to it being a scheduled
drug.
good luck.
most of it was probably genetically acquired.
As for DNB4, that too is admirable IMO after 2weeks.
I had trouble with DNB2.
I have been very inconsistent now (maybe Nbacking once a week on
average), but I am now doing DNB3 with about 10sessions at
100%........I can quit nbacking for a couple weeks, and it only takes
me a few sessions to get my brain back in tune (the first session is
like 50%, then 70%, 80%, 90% session progressions)
I have some recommendations for what it is worth (but realize that I
suck. my IQ is probably 100, and, uh, I just told you i am an Nback
three-er)
1. Do what Reece says.........increase your interference on Nback4 and
play with the timings--increasing and decreasing, until you are superb
at Nback4...........then settings back to 0 for Nback5 and struggle
with it.
2. If you are not doing exercise, consider it. Cardiovascular
25minutes a day at approximately 70% maximal heart rate range, 5days a
week, consider strength training 3days a week, major muscle groups
only.
3. Consider caffeine and sugar source--that is what i did in college.
But I would consider taking a Vivarin, cutting it into fourths, and
take a fourth along with 1/4tsp table sugar and a banana. Take this
10minutes before Nbacking, preferrably Nback upon getting up, and an
hour before bed, as long as you are rested. If a fourth does not work,
try a half, but i wouldnt do a full vivarin as i think it is
excessive. You could do this hourly if you have to study, say, 4hours
a day or something............so that would be 4 doses.
4. Consider omega3 source even tho i personally dont seem to be
affected by it. Consider omegabrite, but i have tried several ratios.
5. Consider the three doses of creatine monohydrate. I do this at
least twice a day. I put in 1 level tsp (probly 4gms) of creatine with
1tablespoon jarrow nonflavored whey protein with 1TBsp baking cocoa
with 4packets splenda and shake and drink.
6. Consider sulbutiamine. I got mine from smartpowders. I mix half of
1/4tsp in 1/2 TBSP virgin olive oil, mixing with the point of a steak
knife in the tablespoon.......i then swallow that, followed by a gulp
of 1% chocolate milk. I only take that stuff a couple times a week,
before Nbacking........seems to make me more alert.
7. Consider powdered cdp choline.......i take 1/4tsp purchased from
cerebralhealth in bulk (scroll down the page). I dont feel anything,
but theoretically it should help with acetylcholine production.
8. Adequate rest, good nutrition
I have tried hundreds of supplements over the years, and I have even
tried pharmaceuticals. Omega does not seem to help me mentally, but i
take it for other benefits. cdp choline, or citicholine, is the stuff
in 5hour energy. If you take your caffeine on an empty stomach along
with that cdp choline and sugar (not the banana), you probably will
feel the effect..........I take creatine primarily because Jonathan
recommended it. However, I took it long before meeting Jonathan, and I
did notice that it, for whatever reason, makes me feel better, esp.
with exercise routines--i seem to recover better....probly some
placebo effect.
I alternate that with the sulbutiamine so i dont become tolerant of
either.
I think if you follow this routine religiously for 60days, that you
will notice an effect..........and i would just continue it
indefinitely.
As for nicotine, piracetam/racetams, aricept, deprenyl, hydergine,
ddavp nasally..........i think you would be disappointed.
A caffeine alternative without diuretic or external stimulatory effect
would be modafinil. But, you would need a prescription to legally use
it in the USA, and I imagine it would not be a good idea to use more
than 4days in a row. It would help with the attention/vigilance,
probably in a similar fashion to hourly doses of 25-50mg (not to
exceed 400mg/day) caffeine with the 1/4tsp table sugar.
Some have used overseas generic versions with variable results, and I
have no idea what generic brand would prove most beneficial if you
decided to take that illegal route. Keep in mind that it is a schedule
IV medication as is valium--if you dont feel comfortable importing
valium, then likewise you should be as wary to import modafinil.
I have never purchased modafinil overseas due to it being a scheduled
drug.
good luck.
whoisbambam
Dec 15, 2010, 9:09:21 AM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Also, you could consider memory techniques.
I never continued the pursuit primarily because I could not find 1000
correct, memorable, color images of decent size for the task (0-9 must
correlate with a concrete word (preferrably some thing/noun or 1000
human faces etc) of 1 or 2 particular letters), nor could I find a
detailed 3-dimensional view of a fully furnished mansion or castle
(wherein one could link the rooms and objects of the mansion with some
fact--loci method), and finally, it was quite un-intuitive for me and
my 'brain' rebelled.
In 1990 or thereabouts I reviewed Tony Buzan, Harry Lorayne, Bruno
Furst, etc. (and later dominic o'brien), but never implemented.
Today there is a new guy on the block, Pmemory/phenomenal memory. If I
had the 1000 color images and a nice visual mansion to memorize, I
would probably consider his system as it makes you go do things
progressively.
So, there are ways to 'train' your memory to make learning new
information through association/linked techniques that may be
beneficial for an engineer with such a high IQ.
If you do pmemory system and come across a solution for the 1000
images and a nicely furnished 3D mansion, let me know via email,
please, as I am confident I need the help moreso than yourself.
I never continued the pursuit primarily because I could not find 1000
correct, memorable, color images of decent size for the task (0-9 must
correlate with a concrete word (preferrably some thing/noun or 1000
human faces etc) of 1 or 2 particular letters), nor could I find a
detailed 3-dimensional view of a fully furnished mansion or castle
(wherein one could link the rooms and objects of the mansion with some
fact--loci method), and finally, it was quite un-intuitive for me and
my 'brain' rebelled.
In 1990 or thereabouts I reviewed Tony Buzan, Harry Lorayne, Bruno
Furst, etc. (and later dominic o'brien), but never implemented.
Today there is a new guy on the block, Pmemory/phenomenal memory. If I
had the 1000 color images and a nice visual mansion to memorize, I
would probably consider his system as it makes you go do things
progressively.
So, there are ways to 'train' your memory to make learning new
information through association/linked techniques that may be
beneficial for an engineer with such a high IQ.
If you do pmemory system and come across a solution for the 1000
images and a nicely furnished 3D mansion, let me know via email,
please, as I am confident I need the help moreso than yourself.
whoisbambam
Dec 15, 2010, 9:35:05 AM12/15/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
also, i forgot to mention.........
using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
loci seem to help with learning new information).
Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
per second
http://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic
If you are learning information rather than a deck of cards, digit
span, or something sequential/numerical in nature, consider the loci
method.
Consider boosting your vocabulary, ie learn the top 2000 words on the
GRE. Ereflect has a program, albeit the English pronunciations are of
British/European accent only.
For some reason, it seems that learning more words and a second
language helps the brain acquire new information at a faster rate.
using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
loci seem to help with learning new information).
Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
per second
http://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic
If you are learning information rather than a deck of cards, digit
span, or something sequential/numerical in nature, consider the loci
method.
Consider boosting your vocabulary, ie learn the top 2000 words on the
GRE. Ereflect has a program, albeit the English pronunciations are of
British/European accent only.
For some reason, it seems that learning more words and a second
language helps the brain acquire new information at a faster rate.
workingonit
Dec 17, 2010, 1:26:52 AM12/17/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Thanks for everyone's support. I managed to make some progress
recently. I need to be more patient.
Interesting thing I noticed is that I could do better on DNB with
chunking. I was amazed how well it works actually. I went to D5B and
D6B using 2/3 chunks and 3/3 chunks respectively. After a while, I
stopped chunking and just memorized the entire list every N signals.
What I did orginally was to forget the last signal and remember a new
signal, thus always updating a list, which was extremely mentally
taxing and often required repeating the letters in my head. For
instance, I would say to myself AAA, AAB, ABD, BDS, etc...
Anyways, I'm pretty pleased by the improvement.
On Dec 15, 6:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> also, i forgot to mention.........
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
> per secondhttp://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_locihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic
recently. I need to be more patient.
Interesting thing I noticed is that I could do better on DNB with
chunking. I was amazed how well it works actually. I went to D5B and
D6B using 2/3 chunks and 3/3 chunks respectively. After a while, I
stopped chunking and just memorized the entire list every N signals.
What I did orginally was to forget the last signal and remember a new
signal, thus always updating a list, which was extremely mentally
taxing and often required repeating the letters in my head. For
instance, I would say to myself AAA, AAB, ABD, BDS, etc...
Anyways, I'm pretty pleased by the improvement.
On Dec 15, 6:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> also, i forgot to mention.........
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
workingonit
Dec 17, 2010, 1:28:32 AM12/17/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I've tried many nootropics on your list to some success, mainly in
keeping alert and my mind clear. No improvements with short term
memory AFAIK.
keeping alert and my mind clear. No improvements with short term
memory AFAIK.
> also, i forgot to mention.........
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
> per secondhttp://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_locihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
Jelani Sims
Dec 18, 2010, 7:34:58 AM12/18/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
The pmemory course leads you along in increments. The first 12 lessons
are the foundational courses and consequently the most difficult or
time consuming. You don't need an intial reserve of 1000 watever
images, nor do u need to have a convient mental castle to etch things
on. You learn everything you need as you go along.
are the foundational courses and consequently the most difficult or
time consuming. You don't need an intial reserve of 1000 watever
images, nor do u need to have a convient mental castle to etch things
on. You learn everything you need as you go along.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
whoisbambam
Dec 19, 2010, 12:45:02 AM12/19/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
yes, i was not insinuating that pmemory 'needs' 1000 mental images.
i didnt like the matrix major system of tony buzan, wherein the 100peg
system was 'colored'......i am not going to get into it.
the guy who did 198digits at 1persecond had a large loci system for
pegging the images........more than the traditional 100 systems.
it is common knowledge that if you want to easily expand the memory
system, you use more images (and there are other ways too, obviously,
as the dominic system introduces).
this does not mean that it is required.
each to his own.
by all means, dont use 1000. dont use 100. Who really cares. I am just
providing information along with opinions/suggestions. nothing more.
it is my opinion that it may be beneficial to put together a 'major
system' with 1000 unique pegs along with a large loci system so there
is less interference with memorizing information--such systems may be
beneficial in memorizing entire textbooks.
then you could matrix that with color, taste, or whatever sensory
information you desire to make a system of 10,000 so that one could
much more easily link the major concepts of an entire college textbook
from page1 to page 1000, with little, if any, interference with
similar image details.
On Dec 18, 6:34 am, Jelani Sims <gouki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The pmemory course leads you along in increments. The first 12 lessons
> are the foundational courses and consequently the most difficult or
> time consuming. You don't need an intial reserve of 1000 watever
> images, nor do u need to have a convient mental castle to etch things
> on. You learn everything you need as you go along.
>
i didnt like the matrix major system of tony buzan, wherein the 100peg
system was 'colored'......i am not going to get into it.
the guy who did 198digits at 1persecond had a large loci system for
pegging the images........more than the traditional 100 systems.
it is common knowledge that if you want to easily expand the memory
system, you use more images (and there are other ways too, obviously,
as the dominic system introduces).
this does not mean that it is required.
each to his own.
by all means, dont use 1000. dont use 100. Who really cares. I am just
providing information along with opinions/suggestions. nothing more.
it is my opinion that it may be beneficial to put together a 'major
system' with 1000 unique pegs along with a large loci system so there
is less interference with memorizing information--such systems may be
beneficial in memorizing entire textbooks.
then you could matrix that with color, taste, or whatever sensory
information you desire to make a system of 10,000 so that one could
much more easily link the major concepts of an entire college textbook
from page1 to page 1000, with little, if any, interference with
similar image details.
On Dec 18, 6:34 am, Jelani Sims <gouki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The pmemory course leads you along in increments. The first 12 lessons
> are the foundational courses and consequently the most difficult or
> time consuming. You don't need an intial reserve of 1000 watever
> images, nor do u need to have a convient mental castle to etch things
> on. You learn everything you need as you go along.
>
> On 12/17/10, workingonit <henryh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've tried many nootropics on your list to some success, mainly in
> > keeping alert and my mind clear. No improvements with short term
> > memory AFAIK.
>
> > On Dec 15, 6:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> also, i forgot to mention.........
> >> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> >> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> >> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> >> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> >> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> >> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
> >> per
> >> secondhttp://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asphttp://en.w...
>
> > I've tried many nootropics on your list to some success, mainly in
> > keeping alert and my mind clear. No improvements with short term
> > memory AFAIK.
>
> > On Dec 15, 6:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> also, i forgot to mention.........
> >> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> >> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> >> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> >> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> >> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> >> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
> >> per
Jelani Sims
Dec 19, 2010, 12:56:41 AM12/19/10
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
By the time you finish the course you will have what you need to memorize a textbook. Your reserve of images will be built up along with the course, which is why you don't need to start with any.
On Dec 19, 2010 12:45 AM, "whoisbambam" <smat...@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, i was not insinuating that pmemory 'needs' 1000 mental images.
i didnt like the matrix major system of tony buzan, wherein the 100peg
system was 'colored'......i am not going to get into it.
the guy who did 198digits at 1persecond had a large loci system for
pegging the images........more than the traditional 100 systems.
it is common knowledge that if you want to easily expand the memory
system, you use more images (and there are other ways too, obviously,
as the dominic system introduces).
this does not mean that it is required.
each to his own.
by all means, dont use 1000. dont use 100. Who really cares. I am just
providing information along with opinions/suggestions. nothing more.
it is my opinion that it may be beneficial to put together a 'major
system' with 1000 unique pegs along with a large loci system so there
is less interference with memorizing information--such systems may be
beneficial in memorizing entire textbooks.
then you could matrix that with color, taste, or whatever sensory
information you desire to make a system of 10,000 so that one could
much more easily link the major concepts of an entire college textbook
from page1 to page 1000, with little, if any, interference with
similar image details.
On Dec 18, 6:34 am, Jelani Sims <gouki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The pmemory course leads you ...
> On 12/17/10, workingonit <henryh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've tried many nootropics on your lis...
> >> secondhttp://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asphttp://en.w...
>
> >> If you are learning information rather than a deck of cards, digit
> >> span, or something se...
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Dual N-Back, Brain Traini...
Nikhil
Dec 25, 2010, 1:52:17 PM12/25/10
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I don't this it really matters (wrt intelligence) how many decimal
places or items in a list a person can memorize using these
techniques. It doesn't matter in day-to-day life, unless if you need
to memorize for an test. You could always use artificial aids (for
example your PDA or even a piece of paper) for this. I believe this
kind of memory is more like a hard disk of a computer while working
memory is more like the registers. I would love to know if anyone
thinks otherwise.
My (amateurish?) understanding is that working memory capacity, speed
at which neural impulses are transmitted along the axon and across the
synapses, connection of neurons to multiple other neurons (of totally
different subject areas, if we are talking about creativity) etc.
makes intelligence.
On Dec 15, 7:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> also, i forgot to mention.........
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
> per secondhttp://www.worldmemorychampionships.com/world_rankings.asphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_locihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic
places or items in a list a person can memorize using these
techniques. It doesn't matter in day-to-day life, unless if you need
to memorize for an test. You could always use artificial aids (for
example your PDA or even a piece of paper) for this. I believe this
kind of memory is more like a hard disk of a computer while working
memory is more like the registers. I would love to know if anyone
thinks otherwise.
My (amateurish?) understanding is that working memory capacity, speed
at which neural impulses are transmitted along the axon and across the
synapses, connection of neurons to multiple other neurons (of totally
different subject areas, if we are talking about creativity) etc.
makes intelligence.
On Dec 15, 7:35 am, whoisbambam <smath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> also, i forgot to mention.........
> using these techniques, people have memorized pi to 80,000 places.
> they have also learnt to remember forward and backward digit spans to
> about 60-80 places at will, time after time, live (but i dont find
> these number techniques real-world uselful myself. linked systems and
> loci seem to help with learning new information).
>
> Clemens Mayer of Germany memorized 198 digits spoken to him at 1 digit
hippocampus
Dec 29, 2012, 5:25:48 PM12/29/12
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
(1) how do you know what is your iq? (if you are guessing, stop and solve a good iq test, like this: http://www.cogn-iq.org/tests/test-of-inductive-reasoning-tri52)
(2) you shouldn't use any special strategies and I don't know how you could improve with intuition only - the key is to train your working memory - and to use "central executive". The only strategy you should use is plain rehearsal. E.g. if you're doing audio n-back you should rehearse the letters you hear in your "phonological loop". But you shouldn't make any meaning of them (e.g. if the letter would be F, B, I, you shouldn't group these letters together - of course this is just example and meaningful combinations rarely occur).
read this: http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#strategies
whoisbambam
Dec 30, 2012, 3:29:35 AM12/30/12
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
re: strategies or intuition;
Neither.
Just play and move forward.
But do realize that it is unlikely that dnb will increase your IQ or
improve your 'intelligence'.
On Dec 29, 1:17 pm, gastonicolasle...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I was reading all of this comments. I just downloaded "Dual N-Back" today
> and I would like to know if I have to use "strategies" or "intuition". I m
> 15 years old and today I did 20 session and arrived to Dual 4-Back. Seing
> comments I see that that is a excellent score. I don t know my IQ but it s
> high, +130 minimum. I post this like that you can answer my first question
> (:D): What do I have to use? "strategies" or "intuition"? Thanks
>
> El sábado, 11 de diciembre de 2010 08:39:49 UTC-3, King Of The Stars
> escribió:
> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:59 AM, Jonathan Toomim <jto...@jtoomim.org<javascript:>
> >> .
Neither.
Just play and move forward.
But do realize that it is unlikely that dnb will increase your IQ or
improve your 'intelligence'.
On Dec 29, 1:17 pm, gastonicolasle...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I was reading all of this comments. I just downloaded "Dual N-Back" today
> and I would like to know if I have to use "strategies" or "intuition". I m
> 15 years old and today I did 20 session and arrived to Dual 4-Back. Seing
> comments I see that that is a excellent score. I don t know my IQ but it s
> high, +130 minimum. I post this like that you can answer my first question
> (:D): What do I have to use? "strategies" or "intuition"? Thanks
>
> El sábado, 11 de diciembre de 2010 08:39:49 UTC-3, King Of The Stars
> escribió:
> > > wrote:
>
> >> No correlations have been found between maximum N-level achieved and IQ
> >> gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training and IQ
> >> gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely between
> >> individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything. Keep up the good
> >> work. See if you can get your percent correct scores at N=4 higher. If
> >> you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able to take things to the
> >> next level.
>
> >> Jonathan
>
> >> On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, workinghard wrote:
>
> >> It's been two weeks since I started. played 20+ sessions a day. I hear
> >>> people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
>
> >>> I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
> >>> bad comparatively.
>
> >>> I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
> >>> affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
> >>> getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
> >>> (130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
> >>> me back severely.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>
> >> No correlations have been found between maximum N-level achieved and IQ
> >> gains. Correlations have been found between the amount of training and IQ
> >> gains. How quickly people advance between levels varies widely between
> >> individuals, and doesn't appear to mean much or anything. Keep up the good
> >> work. See if you can get your percent correct scores at N=4 higher. If
> >> you're able to do that, then maybe you'll be able to take things to the
> >> next level.
>
> >> Jonathan
>
> >> On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, workinghard wrote:
>
> >> It's been two weeks since I started. played 20+ sessions a day. I hear
> >>> people doing level 6,7,8. Is there something wrong with me?
>
> >>> I know my short term memory is not good, but I was surprised it's this
> >>> bad comparatively.
>
> >>> I desperately need to improve my working memory because I know it
> >>> affected my grades in college and now it's limiting my potential in
> >>> getting a competitive job and a good GMAT score. I have a high IQ
> >>> (130+) and went to a great engineering school but my memory is holding
> >>> me back severely.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
> >> .
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jotaro
Dec 30, 2012, 3:57:40 AM12/30/12
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blah
i stopped n backing 2 weeks ago, didnt notice anything except
i am less tired now cause n backing was taxing since i didnt use any methods, just let it be and did my best.
also i might got a little more creative.
Mantheon Markuz
Dec 31, 2012, 4:56:41 AM12/31/12
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Wow man, I'm facing the exact issues as you are. Low iq [100], had trouble with dnb2, struggling with dnb3 and usually fluke through dnb3 to dnb4 and want to desperately increase it. I also plan to start doing cardio exercise too and just lift for major muscles only which you mentioned exactly.
Just wanted to ask did that schedule you mentioned work on you? If it did, it will without a doubt work on me.
Just wanted to ask did that schedule you mentioned work on you? If it did, it will without a doubt work on me.
Mike
Feb 22, 2013, 6:35:51 AM2/22/13
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I don't know if english is your first language but you need to work on not being verbose.
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