project concept - Boulder Hackerspace Public

The old Google Groups will be going away soon, but your browser is incompatible with the new version.
Message from discussion project concept
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of fbeach...@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAGU3oe6P=KMq0+pxhzxLjx_Go_mP6gfcYfoRZd3yKiWv536...@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELguoa8h_dg5xa86J7WGzL1M8qXN3uek8kob7y+gEkvtz-...@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOtMX2i_LPZTh7YDGYiHknrj3n+kTPNK-Jym9UFup3E2waj...@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8F585D.3090...@gmail.com>
	<CAELguoaDU9ztNbPn4tE-y-MCVB=SKFPr2MF9UG-utR-TC4S...@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK6Sb0e2goxP_-SdJN2neCbB50uxR53V4QHn9wVyAZ__=tx...@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAELguoahu7kj1g8H1HUbY5P4JYsih6LKd=QSGutCbxP4f50...@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120419005055.AQH14...@joker.int.colorado.edu>
	<4F903F48.60...@gmail.com>
	<CAELguobgmm+YyDa22baT-qdvS9z3_f0g87rYn3t79xMmz_+...@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F904DA7.10...@gmail.com>
	<7c84aeae-e84b-49a4-a085-03e6f7f58...@v22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<CAGU3oe6P=KMq0+pxhzxLjx_Go_mP6gfcYfoRZd3yKiWv536...@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:22:34 -0600
Message-ID: <CAELguoYgT5P435APN4vnUm4RCR+T=JejcrQuEJTtV1Ja69G...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BHS Public] Re: project concept
From: Free Beachler <fbeach...@gmail.com>
To: boulder-hackerspace-public@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044471a54061b304be0ec545

--f46d044471a54061b304be0ec545
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Everything Peter said...not just audio but visual too.

Free


On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Peter Klipfel <pe...@klipfel.me> wrote:

> Someone previously brought up using visual programming using the kinect or
> something.  I think that if you wanted to make a programming language that
> could be used for audible programming, the language paradigm should shift
> away from the ones that use text files and towards the ones that use jigsaw
> puzzles and visual elements for programming.  The first ones that comes to
> mind are MaxMSP (and i think PureData is visual as well) which are visual
> programming environments.  I think that the shift needs to be even farther
> than that though.  I was thinking recently about what the best way to
> present data audibly is.  For me, I would prefer to be able to build a
> "language" out of sounds of my choosing.  Rather than trying to represent
> code in words, we could represent it in user defined (or language defined)
> sounds.  Saying "semicolon" is frustratingly long.  There would be
> a separate skill involved programming with such languages, but so it is
> with all languages.  The user would end up listening to a type of music to
> program, and then input code by speaking.  This could be followed by a
> response from the program.  Perhaps the programming could be done by motion
> using feedback from the motion of an individual.  This could be translated
> to text if someone else needed to read it.
>
> Seems like a fun challenge!
>
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Bitreaper <bitreaper.n...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> First, I'd like to say that I admire your ambition, and I think that
>> it's awesome and in the hacker spirit.
>>
>> I've found I agree mostly with what Tim has said, and wanted to add:
>>
>> Most coding, no, all coding I've come across in my entire coding life
>> has always been an iterative refinement process.  This means that you
>> need to return to the code that was written (or spoken, which would be
>> translated to your metasyntax) and ponder it.  It means that as you
>> learn more and more about your problem domain that you're attempting
>> to solve, you refine what you were thinking and refactor/rework the
>> areas where you were wrong.  If this is spoken, that process becomes
>> quite cumbersome I would imagine.  "Strike that section out, no wait,
>> only part of it, now write this..."  I just can't imagine it being any
>> faster than a keyboard, and can only imagine it being more
>> frustrating.
>>
>> You can prototype this today, no equipment or software need to be
>> further developed.  Start with a few programmers that know a language,
>> maybe python due to it's lack of extraneous formatting chars (like
>> curly braces), and talk through a problem while they type it out.  If
>> you can work on code that way, then you might have something to work
>> towards.  If it get cumbersome and starts bogging down, you will begin
>> to see what your true issues will be.  And humans are a whole hell of
>> a lot more forgiving of gaps (assumptions) in your speech than a
>> computer will be.
>>
>> That's my half nybble of opinion.
>>
>> Bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 19, 11:38 am, Tim Mensch <tim.men...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 4/19/2012 11:31 AM, Free Beachler wrote:
>> >
>> > >  Are there any open, or known proprietary, 100% visual metasyntaxes
>> > >  that exist for a fully featured OOP language?
>> >
>> > Why restrict yourself to OOP, btw? I mentioned Lua; it's
>> > paradigm-agnostic, and can do OOP, but a lot of the time you can save
>> > thousands of keystrokes by NOT doing OOP.
>> >
>> > Tim
>>
>
>

--f46d044471a54061b304be0ec545
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Everything Peter said...not just audio but visual too.<div><div><br></div><=
div>Free<br><div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Peter Klipfel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pe...@klipfel.me">pe...@klipfel.me</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Someone previously brought up using visual p=
rogramming using the kinect or something. =A0I think that if you wanted to =
make a programming language that could be used for audible programming, the=
 language paradigm should shift away from the ones that use text files and =
towards the ones that use jigsaw puzzles and visual elements for programmin=
g. =A0The first ones that comes to mind are MaxMSP (and i think PureData is=
 visual as well) which are visual programming environments. =A0I think that=
 the shift needs to be even farther than that though. =A0I was thinking rec=
ently about what the best way to present data audibly is. =A0For me, I woul=
d prefer to be able to build a &quot;language&quot; out of sounds of my cho=
osing. =A0Rather than trying to represent code in words, we could represent=
 it in user defined (or language defined) sounds. =A0Saying &quot;semicolon=
&quot; is frustratingly long. =A0There would be a=A0separate=A0skill involv=
ed programming with such languages, but so it is with all languages. =A0The=
 user would end up listening to a type of music to program, and then input =
code by speaking. =A0This could be followed by a response from the program.=
 =A0Perhaps the programming could be done by motion using feedback from the=
 motion of an individual. =A0This could be translated to text if someone el=
se needed to read it.<div>

<br></div><div>Seems like a fun challenge!</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><fon=
t color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Peter</div></font></span><div class=
=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Bitreaper <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bitreaper.n...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bitreaper.n...@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
First, I&#39;d like to say that I admire your ambition, and I think that<br=
>
it&#39;s awesome and in the hacker spirit.<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve found I agree mostly with what Tim has said, and wanted to add:<br=
>
<br>
Most coding, no, all coding I&#39;ve come across in my entire coding life<b=
r>
has always been an iterative refinement process. =A0This means that you<br>
need to return to the code that was written (or spoken, which would be<br>
translated to your metasyntax) and ponder it. =A0It means that as you<br>
learn more and more about your problem domain that you&#39;re attempting<br=
>
to solve, you refine what you were thinking and refactor/rework the<br>
areas where you were wrong. =A0If this is spoken, that process becomes<br>
quite cumbersome I would imagine. =A0&quot;Strike that section out, no wait=
,<br>
only part of it, now write this...&quot; =A0I just can&#39;t imagine it bei=
ng any<br>
faster than a keyboard, and can only imagine it being more<br>
frustrating.<br>
<br>
You can prototype this today, no equipment or software need to be<br>
further developed. =A0Start with a few programmers that know a language,<br=
>
maybe python due to it&#39;s lack of extraneous formatting chars (like<br>
curly braces), and talk through a problem while they type it out. =A0If<br>
you can work on code that way, then you might have something to work<br>
towards. =A0If it get cumbersome and starts bogging down, you will begin<br=
>
to see what your true issues will be. =A0And humans are a whole hell of<br>
a lot more forgiving of gaps (assumptions) in your speech than a<br>
computer will be.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s my half nybble of opinion.<br>
<br>
Bit.<br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
On Apr 19, 11:38=A0am, Tim Mensch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tim.men...@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">tim.men...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; On 4/19/2012 11:31 AM, Free Beachler wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0Are there any open, or known proprietary, 100% visual metasynt=
axes<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0that exist for a fully featured OOP language?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Why restrict yourself to OOP, btw? I mentioned Lua; it&#39;s<br>
&gt; paradigm-agnostic, and can do OOP, but a lot of the time you can save<=
br>
&gt; thousands of keystrokes by NOT doing OOP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tim</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>

--f46d044471a54061b304be0ec545--
Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
Account Options
