Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area...

[Denis Haskin]

I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our
recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with
Ruby/Python experience:

<quote>
Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with
any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area.
</quote>

Thoughts?

dwh

[Phil Darnowsky]

I think he really means "I have gotten to speak with very few Rails folks with any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area." We're all wicked employed.

--Phil

--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> wrote:

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Boston Ruby Group mailing list
> To post to this group, send email to boston-r...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygro...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>

[Wyatt Greene]

I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?

I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.

[Chris Rhoden]

I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know
what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or
A+ certifications."

--
chrisrhoden

[Chris Rhoden]

I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at
someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.

--
chrisrhoden

[Denis Haskin]

Wyatt -- good point.  In our case, we are looking for people to take on the "significant architectural or algorithmic challenges".  Not a whole lot of front-end web ui plumbing.

dwh

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Denis Haskin]

Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area.  But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...

dwh

[Rob Sterner]

What Phil said. That's crap.

[Ian Roughley]

There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... perhaps a sign of the times?

/Ian

[Phil Darnowsky]

Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers currently. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> wrote:

[Ian Roughley]

productivity rates as well ;-)

[Denis Haskin]

Yeah -- we've had a devil of a time finding good people (mediocre & bad people unfortunately there are plenty of).

Nobody believes me when I tell them it's hard to hire good people right now, given the economic state.

dwh

[Phil Darnowsky]

I think one factor is the prevalent idea in our subculture that a mark of a real top programmer is going into business for themselves, which in turn is a consequence of the low price of professional-grade tools. But of course, plenty of other writers on the subject have gone into this. Whatever the reason for this idea, it takes a lot of the cream out of the labor pool for long stretches of time.

--Phil --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> wrote:

[Rebecca Frankel]

I'm curious, where is your cutoff between "good" and "bad" i.e. what would you expect of someone to consider them good?

Rebecca

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Phil Darnowsky]

Hard to quantify, since I tend to go by intuition. There's one sign, though, that always relegates someone to the "bad" bucket. Unless someone is obviously unqualified, we have them write some code. You'd be surprised (well, maybe you wouldn't be) how many just can't. Don't think that we're asking them anything complicated, either: it tends to be slightly above the level of FizzBuzz. --Phil --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Rebecca Frankel <rfra...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

[Eric Richmond]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of code/algorithm/problem would you have them write/solve?

-E

[Angus Davis]

Rebecca Frankel wrote:
> I'm curious, where is your cutoff between "good" and "bad" i.e. what
> would you expect of someone to consider them good?
>
> Rebecca

We put everyone interested in working at Ruby positions at Swipely
through this questionnaire / simple programming challenge:
http://swipely.wufoo.com/forms/swipely-seeks-ruby-on-rails-developer/

Only about 10% of folks who complete this wind up being interviewed.
Approach to algorithm problems and the like is, we find, a better
indicator than specific Ruby experience. We can take an excellent
engineer who doesn't know Ruby and make an investment in teaching her
the syntax. The real issue is finding good people who 1) have strong
"CS fundamentals" (to use the recruiter's language) and 2) are a good
cultural fit for the team environment of a startup (many Rails folks are
in the consulting / lone gunman / freelance camp)

-angus

p.s. Swipely is hiring: http://swipely.com/jobs

>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdar...@yahoo.com
> <mailto:pdar...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a
> language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months
> before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp
> difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers
> currently.
>

> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley /<i...@fdar.com
> <mailto:i...@fdar.com>>/* wrote:

>
>
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com <mailto:i...@fdar.com>>
> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the
> Boston area...
> To: boston-r...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:boston-r...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
>
>
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as
> well... perhaps a sign of the times?
>
> /Ian
>
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech
>> recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of
>> particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
>>
>> dwh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden
>> <carh...@gmail.com

>> <http://mc/compose?to=carh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just
>> making a joke at
>> someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden
>> <carh...@gmail.com

>> <http://mc/compose?to=carh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't
>> really know
>> > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to
>> see more MCSE or
>> > A+ certifications."
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene
>> <techi...@gmail.com

>> <http://mc/compose?to=techi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS
>> fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts
>> (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional
>> programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> >>
>> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs
>> don't require much more than being a plumber and others
>> provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment
>> I got from our
>> >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really
>> needed people with
>> >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>> >>>
>> >>> <quote>
>> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few
>> Rails folks with
>> >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area.
>> >>> </quote>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thoughts?
>> >>>
>> >>> dwh
>>
>> >
>> > --

>> > chrisrhoden
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> chrisrhoden
>>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup>

[Marsh Sutherland]

Very timely article in today's SAI Insider titled "Looking For Work? Learn Ruby On Rails"

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/looking-for-work-learn-ruby-on-rails-2010-9

 

Marsh Sutherland
President | Co-Founder
ReferralBonus™
(877) 969-REFER Ext 1
ma...@referralbon.us
@MarshSutherland | @ReferralBonus

 

[Kevin Bedell]

We're having similar findings. We're aggressively looking for rails people. Our HR team has literally posted on 10+ job boards and we're finding very few experienced professionals. There are some, but it's not easy to find them and they disappear quickly.

[Keenan Brock]

Kevin,

Talk with your java/.net friend. Tell them they can use a real programming language.

And not hate life.

Though they are probably sick of our rails Kool-aid.

:)

--K

On Sep 13, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Kevin Bedell wrote:

We're having similar findings. We're aggressively looking for rails people. Our HR team has literally posted on 10+ job boards and we're finding very few experienced professionals. There are some, but it's not easy to find them and they disappear quickly.

[Kevin Bedell]

Keenen -

So true. Actually, I do tell people this all the time. It's pretty amazing.

-K.

[Keith Erskine]

Kevin - you might have to grow a team. I was in a startup that transitioned a bunch of C++ developers to Java back in the day.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list
To post to this group, send email to boston-r...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygro...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup

--
Keith Erskine
tel: +1 978 566 9432