What do you do when you don't get paid? - Boston Ruby Group

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Message from discussion What do you do when you don't get paid?
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From: Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [boston.rb] What do you do when you don't get paid?
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:15:13 -0400
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And let me add that this assumes you are normally gracious and tolerant =
of the fact that everyone is human and makes mistakes and invoices will =
be paid a few days late now and then.  This is assuming that the late =
payment has escalated beyond the expectations set in the initial =
contract and no longer can be explained as a mistake made in good faith =
by the client.  In other words, your client shouldn't feel like they are =
walking on eggshells and that their services are in jeopardy if they =
happen to be a day or two late.

On Sep 26, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, and [date] can often be "today", depending on the context.  It =
doesn't mean that you necessarily are completing ending your =
relationship with them, but it means that their delay in payment =
translates to a delay in services, which seems fair (as long as this is =
in harmony with the expectations up front when you signed a contract).
>=20
> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Mark Chang <mark.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Chris,
>>=20
>> While I have never been not paid at all, I have definitely been in =
the "string you along and delay" boat a few times. Part of the reason =
for some of these instances, in my case, was bad communication channels =
between those that contracted me for the work, and those in charge of =
issuing payments.
>>=20
>> Somehow, their commitment to me was not communicated, and I was not =
treated as a first-class vendor. I felt bad pressing on these folks =
because my contacts honestly wanted me paid, but the people signing =
checks just didn't get the memo, I guess. I got much faster response =
when I was more pro-active pointing fingers and letting people in charge =
know that their people were dropping the ball, and that it was going to =
affect the work I was delivering to them *by a certain date*.
>>=20
>> So, something like, "your payroll people haven't managed to fulfill =
my invoice in time, therefore I will be forced to focus my energies on =
other client work effective [date]". Curt, professional, and puts the =
ball squarely in their court, which it is. Nothing angry, just making it =
clear that I don't work for free, and  *they* need to figure out how to =
turn the screws on payroll.
>>=20
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Dan Pickett =
<dan.pick...@launchware.com> wrote:
>> Hey Chris,
>>=20
>> Sorry to hear about your situation.
>>=20
>> To reiterate Wyatt's point (and to add on to his awesome =
suggestions), I can't stress the importance of getting the first scope =
of work's deposit (at least 25%, but we require 40%). It's a great =
qualifier, and we've been fortunate in that it's been a deterrant =
against anyone that wasn't planning on or couldn't pay. I can think of =
at least 3 "qualified" inquiries we didn't engage with in the past 2 =
years because they didn't want to make that upfront commitment. When =
this happens, I'm happy because it could have ended so much worse. Two =
important questions we always ask during our intial phone calls are =
"What's your budget?" and "How are you funding this project?"
>>=20
>> I'm a big fan of vetting clients socially, too. Talk to others - ask =
for other vendor references and ask around (maybe they're working with a =
designer or a sales consultant). Chances are this company's reputation =
would have preceded itself. I looked into running credit checks on =
companies, but D&B is kind of a raquet in and of itself. Vendor =
references are often tremendously candid and accurate about payment I've =
found.
>>=20
>> I've had one delinquent payer outside of our community, and we =
eventually settled on a number significantly reduced from what was =
originally owed. It's a painful experience that I think every =
consultant/freelancer unfortunately goes through.=20
>>=20
>> I like to believe that what goes around comes around. Good luck - I =
hope you get your money!=20
>>=20
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM, John Norman <j...@7fff.com> wrote:
>> Having personally consulted with companies ranging from 1 employee to =
10,000, I have NOT ONCE been paid within the time stipulated on an =
invoice. Not once.
>>=20
>> For a company I co-founded, I vividly remember Microsoft never paying =
on time, even though they browbeat us into allowing an extremely long =
amount of time in the invoice.
>>=20
>> (Do I sound bitter?)
>>=20
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Barun Singh <baru...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> (4) Stick to your agreement: Every contracting agreement I've ever =
signed included a clause stating that payment is required within X days =
of an invoice.
>> =20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> =20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
>> Dan Pickett
>> Principal at LaunchWare, Inc.
>> launchware.com | twitter.com/dpickett | twitter.com/launchware
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> =20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Mark L. Chang
>>=20
>> --=20
>> =20
>> =20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">And =
let me add that this assumes you are normally gracious and tolerant of =
the fact that everyone is human and makes mistakes and invoices will be =
paid a few days late now and then. &nbsp;This is assuming that the late =
payment has escalated beyond the expectations set in the initial =
contract and no longer can be explained as a mistake made in good faith =
by the client. &nbsp;In other words, your client shouldn't feel like =
they are walking on eggshells and that their services are in jeopardy if =
they happen to be a day or two late.<div><br><div><div>On Sep 26, 2012, =
at 5:08 PM, Wyatt Greene &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:techifer...@gmail.com">techifer...@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Yes, =
and [date] can often be "today", depending on the context. &nbsp;It =
doesn't mean that you necessarily are completing ending your =
relationship with them, but it means that their delay in payment =
translates to a delay in services, which seems fair (as long as this is =
in harmony with the expectations up front when you signed a =
contract).<div><br><div><div>On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Mark Chang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark.ch...@gmail.com">mark.ch...@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Chris,<div><br></div><div>While I have never been not paid =
at all, I have definitely been in the "string you along and delay" boat =
a few times. Part of the reason for some of these instances, in my case, =
was bad communication channels between those that contracted me for the =
work, and those in charge of issuing payments.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Somehow, their commitment to me was not =
communicated, and I was not treated as a first-class vendor. I felt bad =
pressing on these folks because my contacts honestly wanted me paid, but =
the people signing checks just didn't get the memo, I guess. I got much =
faster response when I was more pro-active pointing fingers and letting =
people in charge know that their people were dropping the ball, and that =
it was going to affect the work I was delivering to them *by a certain =
date*.</div>
<div><br>So, something like, "your payroll people haven't managed to =
fulfill my invoice in time, therefore I will be forced to focus my =
energies on other client work effective [date]". Curt, professional, and =
puts the ball squarely in their court, which it is. Nothing angry, just =
making it clear that I don't work for free, and &nbsp;*they* need to =
figure out how to turn the screws on payroll.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Dan =
Pickett <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dan.pick...@launchware.com" =
target=3D"_blank">dan.pick...@launchware.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Hey Chris,</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry to hear about your =
situation.</div><div><br></div>To reiterate Wyatt's point (and to add on =
to his awesome suggestions), I can't stress the importance of getting =
the first scope of work's deposit (at least 25%, but we require 40%). =
It's a great qualifier, and we've been fortunate in that it's been a =
deterrant against anyone that wasn't planning on or couldn't pay. I can =
think of at least 3 "qualified" inquiries we didn't engage with in the =
past 2 years because they didn't want to make that upfront commitment. =
When this happens, I'm happy because it could have ended so much worse. =
Two important questions we always ask during our intial phone calls are =
"What's your budget?" and "How are you funding this project?"<div>


<br></div><div>I'm a big fan of vetting clients socially, too. Talk to =
others - ask for other vendor references and ask around (maybe they're =
working with a designer or a sales consultant). Chances are this =
company's reputation would have preceded itself. I looked into running =
credit checks on companies, but D&amp;B is kind of a raquet in and of =
itself. Vendor references are often tremendously candid and accurate =
about payment I've found.</div>


<div><br></div><div>I've had one delinquent payer outside of our =
community, and we eventually settled on a number significantly reduced =
from what was originally owed. It's a painful experience that I think =
every consultant/freelancer unfortunately goes through.&nbsp;<br>


<br>I like to believe that what goes around comes around. Good luck - I =
hope you get your money!&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><div><div =
class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM, =
John Norman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j...@7fff.com" =
target=3D"_blank">j...@7fff.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Having personally =
consulted with companies ranging from 1 employee to 10,000, I have NOT =
ONCE been paid within the time stipulated on an invoice. Not once.<br>


<br>For a company I co-founded, I vividly remember Microsoft never =
paying on time, even though they browbeat us into allowing an extremely =
long amount of time in the invoice.<div>
<br></div><div>(Do I sound bitter?)</div><div><div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Barun Singh =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:baru...@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">baru...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>



<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>(4) Stick to your =
agreement: Every contracting agreement I've ever signed included a =
clause stating that payment is required within X days of an =
invoice.</div>



</blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div></div></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div>

-- <br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div></div><span =
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- =
<br><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D</div><div>Dan Pickett</div><div>Principal at LaunchWare, =
Inc.</div><div><a href=3D"http://launchware.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">launchware.com</a> | <a =
href=3D"http://twitter.com/dpickett" =
target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/dpickett</a> | <a =
href=3D"http://twitter.com/launchware" =
target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/launchware</a></div>


<br>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font =
color=3D"#888888"><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>

-- <br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- =
<br>Mark L. Chang<br>
</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>

-- <br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
=
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></h=
tml>=

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