I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our
recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with
Ruby/Python experience:
<quote>
Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with
any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area.
</quote>
I think he really means "I have gotten to speak with very few Rails folks with any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area." We're all wicked employed.
--Phil
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> wrote:
> From: Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> > Subject: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... > To: "Boston Ruby Group" <boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 1:56 PM > I'd be interested in folks' response > to this comment I got from our > recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed > people with > Ruby/Python experience:
> <quote> > Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails > folks with > any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > </quote>
> Thoughts?
> dwh
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Boston Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > Ruby/Python experience:
> <quote> > Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > </quote>
> Thoughts?
> dwh
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or A+ certifications."
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our >> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with >> Ruby/Python experience:
>> <quote> >> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with >> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >> </quote>
>> Thoughts?
>> dwh
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or > A+ certifications."
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>>> <quote> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >>> </quote>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> dwh
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
Wyatt -- good point. In our case, we are looking for people to take on the "significant architectural or algorithmic challenges". Not a whole lot of front-end web ui plumbing.
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a > degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional > programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more > than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or > algorithmic challenges.
> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> > I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > > recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > > Ruby/Python experience:
> > <quote> > > Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > > any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > > </quote>
> > Thoughts?
> > dwh
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote: > I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at > someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or > > A+ certifications."
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean > a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional > programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much > more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or > algorithmic challenges.
> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > >>> Ruby/Python experience:
> >>> <quote> > >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > >>> </quote>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>> dwh
> >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > >>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >>> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> > -- > > chrisrhoden
> -- > chrisrhoden
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > Ruby/Python experience:
> <quote> > Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > </quote>
> Thoughts?
> dwh
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech > recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of > particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
> dwh
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com > <mailto:carho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at > someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com > <mailto:carho...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more > MCSE or > > A+ certifications."
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene > <techifer...@gmail.com <mailto:techifer...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do > they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data > structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't > require much more than being a plumber and others provide > significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got > from our > >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed > people with > >>> Ruby/Python experience:
> >>> <quote> > >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails > folks with > >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > >>> </quote>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>> dwh
> >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Boston Ruby Group mailing list > >>> To post to this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > >>> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Boston Ruby Group mailing list > >> To post to this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> > -- > > chrisrhoden
> -- > chrisrhoden
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston > Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston > Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers currently.
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> wrote:
From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... perhaps a sign of the times?
/Ian
On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote: Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
dwh
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at
someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE
or
> A+ certifications."
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do
they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't
require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got
from our
>>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed
people with
>>> Ruby/Python experience:
>>> <quote> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails
folks with
>>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >>> </quote>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> dwh
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
the Boston Ruby Group mailing list
>>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Boston Ruby Group mailing list
>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > chrisrhoden
--
chrisrhoden
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list
To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic > position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire > anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment > rates between good and bad programmers currently.
> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley /<i...@fdar.com>/* wrote:
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the > Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as > well... perhaps a sign of the times?
> /Ian
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote: >> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech >> recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of >> particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
>> dwh
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com >> </mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a >> joke at >> someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden >> <carho...@gmail.com </mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't >> really know >> > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see >> more MCSE or >> > A+ certifications."
>> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene >> <techifer...@gmail.com >> </mc/compose?to=techifer...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. >> Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data >> structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't >> require much more than being a plumber and others provide >> significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I >> got from our >> >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed >> people with >> >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>> >>> <quote> >> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails >> folks with >> >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >> >>> </quote>
>> >>> Thoughts?
>> >>> dwh
>> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >> the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> >>> To post to this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to >> the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> > -- >> > chrisrhoden
>> -- >> chrisrhoden
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston > Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston > Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic > position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone > good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between > good and bad programmers currently.
> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com>* wrote:
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... > perhaps a sign of the times?
> /Ian
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in > the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java > folks...
> dwh
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com> > > wrote:
> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at > someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or > > A+ certifications."
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=techifer...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean > a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional > programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much > more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or > algorithmic challenges.
> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > >>> Ruby/Python experience:
> >>> <quote> > >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > >>> </quote>
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby > Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
I think one factor is the prevalent idea in our subculture that a mark of a real top programmer is going into business for themselves, which in turn is a consequence of the low price of professional-grade tools. But of course, plenty of other writers on the subject have gone into this. Whatever the reason for this idea, it takes a lot of the cream out of the labor pool for long stretches of time.
--Phil
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> wrote:
From: Denis Haskin <de...@haskinferguson.net> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:31 PM
Yeah -- we've had a devil of a time finding good people (mediocre & bad people unfortunately there are plenty of). Nobody believes me when I tell them it's hard to hire good people right now, given the economic state.
dwh
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers currently.
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> wrote:
From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... perhaps a sign of the times?
/Ian
On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote: Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
dwh
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at
someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE
or
> A+ certifications."
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do
they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't
require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got
from our
>>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed
people with
>>> Ruby/Python experience:
>>> <quote> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails
folks with
>>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >>> </quote>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> dwh
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
the Boston Ruby Group mailing list
>>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Boston Ruby Group mailing list
>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
> -- > chrisrhoden
--
chrisrhoden
--
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On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic > position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone > good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between > good and bad programmers currently.
> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com>* wrote:
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... > perhaps a sign of the times?
> /Ian
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in > the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java > folks...
> dwh
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com> > > wrote:
> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at > someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or > > A+ certifications."
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=techifer...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean > a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional > programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much > more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or > algorithmic challenges.
> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our > >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with > >>> Ruby/Python experience:
> >>> <quote> > >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with > >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. > >>> </quote>
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Hard to quantify, since I tend to go by intuition.
There's one sign, though, that always relegates someone to the "bad" bucket. Unless someone is obviously unqualified, we have them write some code. You'd be surprised (well, maybe you wouldn't be) how many just can't. Don't think that we're asking them anything complicated, either: it tends to be slightly above the level of FizzBuzz.
--Phil
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Rebecca Frankel <rfran...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
From: Rebecca Frankel <rfran...@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 5:16 PM
I'm curious, where is your cutoff between "good" and "bad" i.e. what would you expect of someone to consider them good?
Rebecca
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers currently.
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> wrote:
From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... perhaps a sign of the times?
/Ian
On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote: Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
dwh
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at
someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE
or
> A+ certifications."
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do
they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't
require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got
from our
>>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed
people with
>>> Ruby/Python experience:
>>> <quote> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails
folks with
>>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >>> </quote>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> dwh
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> -- > chrisrhoden
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chrisrhoden
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> Hard to quantify, since I tend to go by intuition.
> There's one sign, though, that always relegates someone to the "bad" bucket. Unless someone is obviously unqualified, we have them write some code. You'd be surprised (well, maybe you wouldn't be) how many just can't. Don't think that we're asking them anything complicated, either: it tends to be slightly above the level of FizzBuzz.
> --Phil
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Rebecca Frankel <rfran...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> From: Rebecca Frankel <rfran...@alum.mit.edu> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 5:16 PM
> I'm curious, where is your cutoff between "good" and "bad" i.e. what would you expect of someone to consider them good?
> Rebecca
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers currently.
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> wrote:
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as well... perhaps a sign of the times?
> /Ian
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
>> dwh
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just making a joke at >> someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden <carho...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't really know >> > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to see more MCSE or >> > A+ certifications."
>> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene <techifer...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs don't require much more than being a plumber and others provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment I got from our >> >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really needed people with >> >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>> >>> <quote> >> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few Rails folks with >> >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >> >>> </quote>
>> >>> Thoughts?
>> >>> dwh
>> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> >>> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> > -- >> > chrisrhoden
>> -- >> chrisrhoden
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list >> To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
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Only about 10% of folks who complete this wind up being interviewed. Approach to algorithm problems and the like is, we find, a better indicator than specific Ruby experience. We can take an excellent engineer who doesn't know Ruby and make an investment in teaching her the syntax. The real issue is finding good people who 1) have strong "CS fundamentals" (to use the recruiter's language) and 2) are a good cultural fit for the team environment of a startup (many Rails folks are in the consulting / lone gunman / freelance camp)
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com > <mailto:pdarn...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
> Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a > language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months > before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp > difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers > currently.
> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley /<i...@fdar.com > <mailto:i...@fdar.com>>/* wrote:
> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com <mailto:i...@fdar.com>> > Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the > Boston area... > To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > <mailto:boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com> > Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as > well... perhaps a sign of the times?
> /Ian
> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote: >> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech >> recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of >> particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
>> dwh
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden >> <carho...@gmail.com >> <http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just >> making a joke at >> someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden >> <carho...@gmail.com >> <http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't >> really know >> > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to >> see more MCSE or >> > A+ certifications."
>> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene >> <techifer...@gmail.com >> <http://mc/compose?to=techifer...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS >> fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts >> (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional >> programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs >> don't require much more than being a plumber and others >> provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment >> I got from our >> >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really >> needed people with >> >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>> >>> <quote> >> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few >> Rails folks with >> >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >> >>> </quote>
> Only about 10% of folks who complete this wind up being interviewed. > Approach to algorithm problems and the like is, we find, a better indicator > than specific Ruby experience. We can take an excellent engineer who > doesn't know Ruby and make an investment in teaching her the syntax. The > real issue is finding good people who 1) have strong "CS fundamentals" (to > use the recruiter's language) and 2) are a good cultural fit for the team > environment of a startup (many Rails folks are in the consulting / lone > gunman / freelance camp)
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Phil Darnowsky <pdarn...@yahoo.com<mailto: >> pdarn...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> Plausible. The last time we recruited someone--for a >> language-agnostic position, no less--it took literally months >> before we could hire anyone good. It seems like there's a sharp >> difference in unemployment rates between good and bad programmers >> currently.
>> --- On *Thu, 8/19/10, Ian Roughley /<i...@fdar.com >> <mailto:i...@fdar.com>>/* wrote:
>> From: Ian Roughley <i...@fdar.com <mailto:i...@fdar.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [boston.rb] Recruiting rails/ruby/python in the >> Boston area... >> To: boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com>
>> Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:09 PM
>> There are slim pickings for good Java people at the moment as >> well... perhaps a sign of the times?
>> /Ian
>> On 08/19/2010 02:48 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> Yeah, the person in question is actually one of the top tech >>> recruiters in the area. But I think his stable is full of >>> particularly enterprise-y Java folks...
>>> dwh
>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chris Rhoden >>> <carho...@gmail.com >>> <http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I cringed as soon as I pushed the send button. Just >>> making a joke at >>> someone who I don't know's expense. Sorry about that.
>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chris Rhoden >>> <carho...@gmail.com >>> <http://mc/compose?to=carho...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > I think that what he means is, "as a recruiter, I don't >>> really know >>> > what makes a good programmer. I would really like to >>> see more MCSE or >>> > A+ certifications."
>>> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Wyatt Greene >>> <techifer...@gmail.com >>> <http://mc/compose?to=techifer...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >> I think this depends on what is meant by CS >>> fundamentals. Do they mean a degree? Or the concepts >>> (algorithms and data structures, OOP, functional >>> programming, big-O notation, etc.)?
>>> >> I think it's also worth noting that some Rails jobs >>> don't require much more than being a plumber and others >>> provide significant architectural or algorithmic challenges.
>>> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Denis Haskin wrote:
>>> >>> I'd be interested in folks' response to this comment >>> I got from our >>> >>> recruiter, when I was pressing him that we really >>> needed people with >>> >>> Ruby/Python experience:
>>> >>> <quote> >>> >>> Just my 0.02 cents is that there are very, very few >>> Rails folks with >>> >>> any reasonable CS fundamentals in the Boston area. >>> >>> </quote>
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We're having similar findings. We're aggressively looking for rails people. Our HR team has literally posted on 10+ job boards and we're finding very few experienced professionals. There are some, but it's not easy to find them and they disappear quickly.
> We're having similar findings. We're aggressively looking for rails people. Our HR team has literally posted on 10+ job boards and we're finding very few experienced professionals. There are some, but it's not easy to find them and they disappear quickly.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Boston Ruby Group mailing list > To post to this group, send email to boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to boston-rubygroup-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Kevin Bedell <ke...@kbedell.com> wrote: > Keenen -
> So true. Actually, I do tell people this all the time. It's pretty amazing.
> -K.
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