You guys are absolutely hilarious......
Todd Super Bassist
miserable this is, blah blah blah....
I listen to Air America every night now, just to see what they have to say.
I'm kinda appauled by the attitude of radical Democrats. Kerry and Edwards
asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same (I'll give him
the benefit of the doubt) then everything should be wonderful. But what do I
hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
thing they're going to do is come together. I heard Jeneane saying that we
should all do whatever we can to make this president as miserable as
possible because we don't stand with him, regardless of what Kerry and
Edwards said.
What kind of attitude is that?
You guys want to know why the Democrats continue to suffer crushing defeats?
Do you guys realize that the Democrats have continued to lose Senate and
House seats every 2 years since half-way through the last term of Clinton's
Administration???
It may pain you guys to accept this.. but the Democrats are more divided now
than ever before. You guys are ridiculous.... NOT EVERY DEMOCRAT IS AN
EXTREME LIBERAL ACTIVIST.
All these actors, concerts, movies that come out blaming Bush.... it's only
hurting the Democrat party. Do you honestly beleive that every person who
considers themself a Democrat is as radical as Nancy Pelosi? Hell no....
The Democrat party continues to pick horrible candidates. Like... Dukakis
(spelling?), and Kerry... why??? I'm registered Republican, but I'm more
Libertarian. But even "I" can tell that there are sooo many better Democrat
candidates available. Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt... there are soo many
better candidates... I just cannot understand why they continue to do this?
The Democrats really need to think about things in the next 4 years... they
really need to consider WHO they want on their ballot next term. I can tell
you right now, a Hilary Clinton / Obama ticket will lose in a landslide
against McCain / Juliani. Is that what you want? I would almost guarantee
that you lose more Senate and House seats.
Don't get me wrong, I voted for Bush... but if you guys continue to screw up
like this, we'll eventually have a 60 senate seat majority, and Bush will be
able to pass whatever he wants without problem.. fillibuster or not... even
I don't want that... no party should have absolute power.
I cannot believe how BLIND you people are.... I don't know why I'm
bothering, because most of you on here aren't even American and therefore
have no say in our elections anyway.... but for those of you who are... you
REALLY REALLY need to think hard about this the next 4 years... who do YOU
want to represent you? A Nanci Pelosi / Kennedy figure... or someone more
middle of the road like Dick Gephardt?
As long as you guys continue to support left-wing radicals... you're going
to continue to push your party further and further into a minority. You
people are totally alienating those in your party who are more conservative
and moderate.
You guys have NO ONE to blame but yourselves... not the GAY Marriage issue,
or gay marriage votes on the ballot, or abortion, or the Christian vote...
that's the whole problem with the Democrat party right now, you guys refuse
to look at your own issues, you just automatically assume everything is
everyone else's fault.
What moron would want "p-Diddy" to represent them... "Vote or Die??"...
stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do you honestly think that a moderate
Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church, has a
regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at "p-Diddy"
with admiration and accept his advice??
Please.... you guys need to stop whining and crying... and fix your own
damn problems first.
Todd
--
borland.public.off-topic exists as a runoff for unwanted posts in the
technical groups. Enforcement of rules is deliberately minimal but
Borland reserves the right to cancel posts at any time, for any
reason, without notice.
John McTaggart
> damn problems first.
Talk about bitching and moaning..
John McTaggart
me @kilroywuzhere Stephan
"Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Honestly, I think it's kinda funny how you guys keep posting about how
> miserable this is, blah blah blah....
>
> I listen to Air America every night now, just to see what they have to
say.
>
> I'm kinda appauled by the attitude of radical Democrats. Kerry and Edwards
> asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same (I'll give
him
> the benefit of the doubt) then everything should be wonderful. But what do
I
> hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> thing they're going to do is come together. I heard Jeneane saying that we
> should all do whatever we can to make this president as miserable as
> possible because we don't stand with him, regardless of what Kerry and
> Edwards said.
>
> What kind of attitude is that?
It's an attitude brought on by the fact that the US has not been settled by
any
homogeneous group. There has been unity when survival depended on it.
Now, as before, those that oppose Bush have decided that his policies
are detrimental to the greater good of Americans, and maybe the world in
general.
Just because the Chimp won, should we start to think his policies are okay
now?
> You guys want to know why the Democrats continue to suffer crushing
defeats?
> Do you guys realize that the Democrats have continued to lose Senate and
> House seats every 2 years since half-way through the last term of
Clinton's
> Administration???
> It may pain you guys to accept this.. but the Democrats are more divided
now
> than ever before. You guys are ridiculous.... NOT EVERY DEMOCRAT IS AN
> EXTREME LIBERAL ACTIVIST.
> All these actors, concerts, movies that come out blaming Bush.... it's
only
> hurting the Democrat party. Do you honestly beleive that every person who
> considers themself a Democrat is as radical as Nancy Pelosi? Hell no....
>
> The Democrat party continues to pick horrible candidates. Like... Dukakis
> (spelling?), and Kerry... why??? I'm registered Republican, but I'm more
> Libertarian. But even "I" can tell that there are sooo many better
Democrat
> candidates available. Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt... there are soo many
> better candidates... I just cannot understand why they continue to do
this?
charisma. It's not a "who's better" but a "who will win" contest.
> The Democrats really need to think about things in the next 4 years...
they
> really need to consider WHO they want on their ballot next term. I can
tell
> you right now, a Hilary Clinton / Obama ticket will lose in a landslide
> against McCain / Juliani. Is that what you want? I would almost guarantee
> that you lose more Senate and House seats.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I voted for Bush...
why? you crazy?
> but if you guys continue to screw up
> like this, we'll eventually have a 60 senate seat majority, and Bush will
be
> able to pass whatever he wants without problem.. fillibuster or not...
even
> I don't want that... no party should have absolute power.
>
> I cannot believe how BLIND you people are.... I don't know why I'm
> bothering, because most of you on here aren't even American and therefore
> have no say in our elections anyway.... but for those of you who are...
you
> REALLY REALLY need to think hard about this the next 4 years... who do YOU
> want to represent you? A Nanci Pelosi / Kennedy figure... or someone more
> middle of the road like Dick Gephardt?
>
> As long as you guys continue to support left-wing radicals... you're going
> to continue to push your party further and further into a minority. You
> people are totally alienating those in your party who are more
conservative
> and moderate.
>
> You guys have NO ONE to blame but yourselves... not the GAY Marriage
issue,
> or gay marriage votes on the ballot, or abortion, or the Christian vote...
exit polls say otherwise.
> that's the whole problem with the Democrat party right now, you guys
refuse
> to look at your own issues, you just automatically assume everything is
> everyone else's fault.
>
> What moron would want "p-Diddy" to represent them... "Vote or Die??"...
> stupidest thing I've ever heard.
You're not black, are you?
> Do you honestly think that a moderate
> Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church, has
a
> regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
"p-Diddy"
> with admiration and accept his advice??
You're not black, are you?
a small clue: black basketball star sneaker endosements.
> Please.... you guys need to stop whining and crying... and fix your own
> damn problems first.
Dems do need a charismatic moderate. a bill without the hillary, who knows
how to keep his
"junior officer" where it belongs
Todd Super Bassist
"John McTaggart" <john_at_compnet101_dot_com> wrote in message
news:418b85d5$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> > Please.... you guys need to stop whining and crying... and fix your own
> > damn problems first.
>
> Talk about bitching and moaning..
>
> John McTaggart
It's in MY Best interest, and the best interest of the country to have an
apposing party of equal power. While I am happy that Bush won, I am a little
dismayed that we cleaned the house and senate. It's dangerous for one party
to have absolute power... REGARDLESS of what party that is, Democrat or
Republican.
Absolute power currupts absolutely...
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> It's an attitude brought on by the fact that the US has not been settled
by
> any
> homogeneous group. There has been unity when survival depended on it.
> Now, as before, those that oppose Bush have decided that his policies
> are detrimental to the greater good of Americans, and maybe the world in
> general.
See, there you go..... you have absolutely no clue....
Bill Clinton was NOT a left-wing extremist. He was a moderate.. he was
actually a VERY conservative Democrat. Until you guys accept the fact that
you lost because the party is misguided (and I'm not talking morals), then
you're going to continue to lose. You need a candidate that can speak for
the majority of the population. That is... if you want to continue to be a
worthy party.
Todd
Andreas Prucha
> I'm kinda appauled by the attitude of radical Democrats. Kerry and
> Edwards asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same
> (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) then everything should be
> wonderful. But what do I hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al
> Franken are saying that the last thing they're going to do is come
> together.
Sorry, but this "comming together" is political rhetoric anyway. Parties
present each-other as pure evil during elections, so why should they
suddenly support each-other?
> I heard Jeneane saying that we should all do whatever we can
> to make this president as miserable as possible because we don't stand
> with him, regardless of what Kerry and Edwards said.
>
> What kind of attitude is that?
A steady attitude. Why sould be Bush considere as good after the election
if he was considered as bad before the election?
> The Democrat party continues to pick horrible candidates. Like...
> Dukakis (spelling?), and Kerry... why??? I'm registered Republican,
> but I'm more Libertarian. But even "I" can tell that there are sooo
> many better Democrat candidates available.
I guess the Democrats think the same about the Republicans. Why do they
pick one of the worst candidates? OK, Wolfowitz & Co would have been
worse, but Bush is just their puppet anyway.
> Joe Lieberman, Dick
> Gephardt... there are soo many better candidates... I just cannot
> understand why they continue to do this?
Since you obviously more support conservative policies, it's no suprise
that you want to see more conservative candidates running for the Dems.
But is that really good? I doubt it. I really doubt that the Dems can be
successfull by beeing conservatives. Last time Bush tried to get moderate
votes with the "Compassionate Conservatives"-Nonsense. He did not really
try it this time, but rather motivated the religious hardliners to vote.
I think the Dems could also win, if they could motivate their base to
vote. I think many just think that voting does not change anything
anyway.
> The Democrats really need to think about things in the next 4 years...
> they really need to consider WHO they want on their ballot next term.
> I can tell you right now, a Hilary Clinton / Obama ticket will lose in
> a landslide against McCain / Juliani.
I am not so sure about that.
> Don't get me wrong, I voted for Bush... but if you guys continue to
> screw up like this, we'll eventually have a 60 senate seat majority,
> and Bush will be able to pass whatever he wants without problem..
Well, our conservatives also give tips like "Be a little bit more like
us, then you will have success again". But do they really want that the
others have success? Of couse not. If one party moves too much in the
direction of another party, it supports the positions of this party. And
it demotivates the own base to vote ("Whoever I vote for, I get more or
less what I do not want")
> fillibuster or not... even I don't want that... no party should have
> absolute power.
That's true. Unfortunately the Reps do now.
> I cannot believe how BLIND you people are.... I don't know why I'm
> bothering, because most of you on here aren't even American and
> therefore have no say in our elections anyway.... but for those of you
> who are... you REALLY REALLY need to think hard about this the next 4
> years... who do YOU want to represent you? A Nanci Pelosi / Kennedy
> figure... or someone more middle of the road like Dick Gephardt?
Hmm, I do not know how you define middle of the road.
> As long as you guys continue to support left-wing radicals... you're
> going to continue to push your party further and further into a
> minority. You people are totally alienating those in your party who
> are more conservative and moderate.
Hmm, I did not really find any left-wing-radical in this election.
Michael Warner
> Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> thing they're going to do is come together.
Why not - don't they have any sexual ambition?
--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo
Todd Super Bassist
> > bothering, because most of you on here aren't even American and
> > therefore have no say in our elections anyway.... but for those of you
> > who are... you REALLY REALLY need to think hard about this the next 4
> > years... who do YOU want to represent you? A Nanci Pelosi / Kennedy
> > figure... or someone more middle of the road like Dick Gephardt?
>
> Hmm, I do not know how you define middle of the road.
>
> > As long as you guys continue to support left-wing radicals... you're
> > going to continue to push your party further and further into a
> > minority. You people are totally alienating those in your party who
> > are more conservative and moderate.
>
> Hmm, I did not really find any left-wing-radical in this election.
Look, Kerry is a Massachusettes Democrat..... Kerry is basically, one of the
top five most liberal Democrats currnetly in the spotlight. With Nancy
Peloci and Ted Kennedy in the top two spots.
You don't understand what I'm saying... the Democrats do NOT represent
left-radicalism.... they simply do not.
When I say "The Democrats", I'm not talking about the party of Nancy Pelosi,
and Communists.
I'm talking about Clintonites... and people like that.
No matter how you want to read the cards... the majority of the United
States is middle of the road. Why else do we have a fairly decent number of
independents?
The majority of the United States is made up of people who stradle the
political line.... people usually do not like to vote an extreme....
Bush played an excellent campaign. He grabbed the attention of the moderate
Republicans (and many moderate Democrats) at the same time while playing the
Christian coalition.
Regardless of what they want to accomplish.... if they have any chance of
winning the election in 2008, they need to have a candidate that can appeal
to BOTH sides... obviously, a candidate that can appeal to their left base,
but also the middle of the road voters.
Clinton was able to do this...
Hilary Clinton might be like this as well, but I doubt that American is
necessarily ready for a female president. Many female presidents have
attempted this before (even quality candidates) but they never make it out
of the primaries.
Because of Hilary's personality, I think she will win the primaries...
however, in the face of someone like Senator McCain, who is THE most
respected Republican to the Democrat party.... Hilary will almost
undoubtedly lose by a landslide.
Obama will not help her either.
Blacks only make up 13% of the US population, and less than 1/30th of them
actually vote.
Not to mention that there are still a lot of Dixiecrats still alive that
will probably not vote for a black candidate anyway.
(and don't think I'm a bigot, I would vote for Condi for president in a
second)
I'm just saying that if the Democrat party has any hope of getting back into
the White House, they need a candidate that can appeal to a larger majority,
and not the extreme left-base.
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
"Michael Warner" <s...@homepage.com> wrote in message
news:4dfm1y8f9b4e.5...@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:30:52 -0500, Todd Super Bassist wrote:
>
> > Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> > thing they're going to do is come together.
>
> Why not - don't they have any sexual ambition?
Hahhahaha....
Todd Super Bassist
> > hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> > thing they're going to do is come together. I heard Jeneane saying that
we
> > should all do whatever we can to make this president as miserable as
> > possible because we don't stand with him, regardless of what Kerry and
> > Edwards said.
> >
> > What kind of attitude is that?
>
> in 2006. ;^)
>
> --
> Charles Appel
Umm, and the alternative helped you this time... how?
And it helped you last time in the mid-term elections in 2002 also???
Captain Jake
news:418b8763$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> > Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church,
has
> a
> > regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
> "p-Diddy"
> > with admiration and accept his advice??
>
> You're not black, are you?
You think blacks expect that a moderate democrat who has a wife, two kids,
goes to church and has a desk job would listen with rapt attention to
p-diddy?
Captain Jake
news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> miserable this is, blah blah blah....
>
> I listen to Air America every night now, just to see what they have to
say.
>
> I'm kinda appauled by the attitude of radical Democrats. Kerry and Edwards
> asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same (I'll give
him
> the benefit of the doubt) then everything should be wonderful. But what do
I
> hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> thing they're going to do is come together.
Just because two rather un-funny "comedians" say something does not make it
representative of the democratic party in general. Based on what I've read
and heard in the general media there seems to be some genuine soul-searching
going on among much of the democratic elite. Air America is a financial
failure because it represents almost nobody's views, even within the
democratic party. You're tilting at windmills Todd.
Charles Appel
>
> > > hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the
last
> > > thing they're going to do is come together. I heard Jeneane saying
that
> we
> > > should all do whatever we can to make this president as miserable as
> > > possible because we don't stand with him, regardless of what Kerry and
> > > Edwards said.
> > >
> > > What kind of attitude is that?
> >
> > One that will increase the Republican majority in Congress
> > in 2006. ;^)
> >
> > --
> > Charles Appel
>
>
> Umm, and the alternative helped you this time... how?
>
> And it helped you last time in the mid-term elections in 2002 also???
You've lost me. Alternative? Helped me?
My point was that the Radical Democrat attack poodles
(Moore, Franken etc.) and their attacks on Bush helped
Bush win this time. And they will help the Republicans
win in 2006 as well. The RNC should send them all thank
you notes and ask them to keep up the good work. ;^)
--
Charles Appel
"A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future."
Robert Anson Heinlein
Todd Super Bassist
> You've lost me. Alternative? Helped me?
>
> My point was that the Radical Democrat attack poodles
> (Moore, Franken etc.) and their attacks on Bush helped
> Bush win this time. And they will help the Republicans
> win in 2006 as well. The RNC should send them all thank
> you notes and ask them to keep up the good work. ;^)
>
> --
> Charles Appel
> "A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future."
> Robert Anson Heinlein
Oh, I see your point. I agree, I thought you were saying it was wrong...
However, I don't necessarily think that one party in extreme power is a good
thing. I'm Republican, make no mistake about it... but I want to be fair
too.... a 60 senate majority would be scary for either party.
Todd
John McTaggart
own
> > > damn problems first.
> >
> > Talk about bitching and moaning..
> >
> REGARDLESS of what party that is, Democrat or Republican.
Now that, I agree with.
There are no "checks and balances" left in government.
A few more votes in the senate and this country could go fascist.
John McTaggart
Thomas J. Theobald
> Honestly, I think it's kinda funny how you guys keep posting about how
> miserable this is, blah blah blah....
>
> I listen to Air America every night now, just to see what they have to
say.
Wish I knew what station they were on around here - is there a link to their
broadcast zones somewhere?
> I'm kinda appauled by the attitude of radical Democrats. Kerry and Edwards
> asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same (I'll give
him
> the benefit of the doubt) then everything should be wonderful.
Agreed, but I'm not holding my breath that the Dub will do so. Particularly
not after the "political capital" speech.
> But what do I
> hear on Air America? Jeneane G. and Al Franken are saying that the last
> thing they're going to do is come together. I heard Jeneane saying that we
> should all do whatever we can to make this president as miserable as
> possible because we don't stand with him, regardless of what Kerry and
> Edwards said.
>
> What kind of attitude is that?
Pretty piss-poor, that's true. If the GOP were to start acting like it
cared (and yes, I believe it is their responsibility at this point, given
the ultra-craptastic record they've displayed over these last four years),
there might be some hope. However, until that occurs, they're probably
right.
> You guys want to know why the Democrats continue to suffer crushing
defeats?
Will cover this in a sec.
>
> Do you guys realize that the Democrats have continued to lose Senate and
> House seats every 2 years since half-way through the last term of
Clinton's
> Administration???
That's a pretty facetious thing to ask, don't you think?
> It may pain you guys to accept this.. but the Democrats are more divided
now
> than ever before. You guys are ridiculous.... NOT EVERY DEMOCRAT IS AN
> EXTREME LIBERAL ACTIVIST.
There's an assumption up there which is incorrect - the defeats to date have
not been crushing. Defeats yes, and a loss is still a loss, but the dems
have consistently displayed more in common with 50%+ of the country on just
about every issue.
You'll find that what you've just said in all caps is true. In fact, very
few of them are. Which includes the vast majority of those seeking office
(such as Kerry and Edwards). It is the successful smear campaigns run by
Bush/Rove that has cost us - when someone lies in a campaign, it is often
done in just such a way that avoids being directly slanderous. I've often
been surprised that no lawsuits were filed against these guys for false
statements made while campaigning. Of course, passing a law that punishes
people for such behavior would be nearly impossible, given the people who
make those laws.
> All these actors, concerts, movies that come out blaming Bush.... it's
only
> hurting the Democrat party. Do you honestly beleive that every person who
> considers themself a Democrat is as radical as Nancy Pelosi? Hell no....
How do you stop someone from supporting a cause they care for? Don't you
think that advice would be better directed to the DNC rather than BPOT?
> The Democrat party continues to pick horrible candidates.
The Dub is not horrible?
> Like... Dukakis
> (spelling?), and Kerry... why??? I'm registered Republican, but I'm more
> Libertarian. But even "I" can tell that there are sooo many better
Democrat
> candidates available. Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt... there are soo many
> better candidates... I just cannot understand why they continue to do
this?
It's all part of the primaries, man. The DNC doesn't choose these people,
the people of the nation do. That's what democracy is about.
> The Democrats really need to think about things in the next 4 years...
they
> really need to consider WHO they want on their ballot next term. I can
tell
> you right now, a Hilary Clinton / Obama ticket will lose in a landslide
> against McCain / Juliani. Is that what you want? I would almost guarantee
> that you lose more Senate and House seats.
Again, better to send that to DNC over BPOT.
> Don't get me wrong, I voted for Bush...
Which makes any advice you give suspect, both for reason and for quality.
> but if you guys continue to screw up
> like this,
Like a $7.4T debt and an enormous budget deficit, or screw up like attacking
the wrong country in response to a perceived threat? Just trying to get a
magnitude value here. What's worth more to you that you voted for him? The
debt or the dead people?
> we'll eventually have a 60 senate seat majority, and Bush will be
> able to pass whatever he wants without problem..
In which case, the country will go bankrupt like a South American banana
republic, and you'll be swimming in a chemical dump in your backyard.
Unfortunately, you have only yourself to blame for this.
> fillibuster or not... even
> I don't want that... no party should have absolute power.
Then why did you choose to support one with such obviously criminal motive?
> I cannot believe how BLIND you people are....
Check the mirror, Todd. Many people out here will consider the same of you.
> I don't know why I'm
> bothering,
Not so sure about that myself, since you're kinda devolving this into a
troll post rather than a thought-out argument.
> because most of you on here aren't even American and therefore
> have no say in our elections anyway....
There you'd probably be wrong.
> but for those of you who are... you
> REALLY REALLY need to think hard about this the next 4 years... who do YOU
> want to represent you? A Nanci Pelosi / Kennedy figure... or someone more
> middle of the road like Dick Gephardt?
Perhaps the same could be said of you - stop putting right-wing nut-jobs on
the ticket. Again, depends on who runs and what our choices are. You're
making a really big false assumption here.
> As long as you guys continue to support left-wing radicals...
Todd, grab a clue - they're free. The only reason you think these people
are radicals is because Hannity has told you so. Kerry was pretty solidly
centrist, as was Clinton.
> you're going
> to continue to push your party further and further into a minority. You
> people are totally alienating those in your party who are more
conservative
> and moderate.
What? Pot, perhaps you should introduce yourself to Kettle over there.
> You guys have NO ONE to blame but yourselves... not the GAY Marriage
issue,
> or gay marriage votes on the ballot, or abortion, or the Christian vote...
Actually, yes, these things you list were largely responsible for much of
the large turnout in the midwest, and particularly in Ohio. Might be some
political education needed there, Todd.
> that's the whole problem with the Democrat party right now, you guys
refuse
> to look at your own issues, you just automatically assume everything is
> everyone else's fault.
Again, a mistaken assumption. Who says the dems don't take responsibility
for their stance on issues? They chose to stand for fiscal responsibility,
against an unjust war, for environmental protection, for a living wage, for
a viable middle class, against stealing from the poor to give to the rich,
and for a stronger national security system. Turned out that the GOP had a
sucker punch waiting in the gay marriage issue that tipped the scales in
their favor. Remember, this was not a slam-dunk election, Todd - this was a
50-48 one.
> What moron would want "p-Diddy" to represent them... "Vote or Die??"...
> stupidest thing I've ever heard.
And it didn't matter at all in the end. Youth vote remained at 17%, same as
last time.
> Do you honestly think that a moderate
> Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church, has
a
> regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
"p-Diddy"
> with admiration and accept his advice??
No, in fact, he's apt not to give a hoot about Combs' opinion, and he will
be assembling his opinion from sources he considers worthwhile. However,
the same fellow on the other side seems a lot more likely to go on a rant
and post to a newsgroup what an evil thing it is to have a rapper
representing them, without considering that the group in question is rather
diverse, and may consist of not only middle class married folks with 2.3
kids, but may also contain members of a young crowd who likes rap a lot, and
respects Combs.
Diversity is the soul of democracy. It's just a shame you - and many among
your party - don't recognize it.
> Please.... you guys need to stop whining and crying... and fix your own
> damn problems first.
Once again, Pot, that's Kettle over there. Go introduce yourself.
T
Dave Fowler
>
> He was trying to pass a Nationalized Health Care plan.
>
LOL, and only extreme left communist countries have those.
Todd Super Bassist
> > I listen to Air America every night now, just to see what they have to
> say.
>
> Wish I knew what station they were on around here - is there a link to
their
> broadcast zones somewhere?
Oh, and it's www.airamericaradio.com
I listen to them on 940 AM Miami (In Fort Lauderdale).
Todd
John F
Thomas J. Theobald wrote:
> Wish I knew what station they were on around here - is there a link to their
> broadcast zones somewhere?
========================================================
If you have a strong stomach and can stand the ignorance of the
"celebrities" you can listen in here:
http://www.airamericaradio.com/
John F
Todd Super Bassist
"Dave Fowler" <n...@realemail.com> wrote in message
news:418b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:418ba35b$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
> > He was trying to pass a Nationalized Health Care plan.
> >
> LOL, and only extreme left communist countries have those.
An American Left-Extremist would be considered a Right-Wing Conservative NUT
in Europe.
The United States of America is a capitalist society. The majority of us do
not want socialist values forced on us. They're not evil... I mean, the
intent is to help people... but most of us just do not think it's fair that
someone who doesn't work for what they have earned, deserves to be "carried"
by the many.
There will always be exceptions... you will always have a family that hit on
hard times, and is starving in the streets. That's VERY unfortunate. But in
the United States of America.. we do NOT support passing legislation that
punishes 99% of the country at the expense of 1% of the country.
An overwhelming majority of the "homeless" population in the US is homeless
because of chemical addictions or because of mental imbalances. If you
insist on me "explaining" my knowledge of the homeless population, I'd be
happy to do so, but if you can tell me right now that you wouldn't believe
me regardless of what I say, then I'll save myself the trouble of typing it
out.
Never the less.. Poverty in the US is NOT the same thing as poverty in most
other countries.
Passing a nationalized health care system would cause a massive backfire
which would eventually put the big insurance companies out of business
(Cigna, Blue Cross & Blue Shield, etc).
Never the less, whether you support it or not... it is considered a FAR-LEFT
leaning issue in the US. Something that Kerry supported... just one of the
reasons why he didn't make it.
I know the three people who have told me they didn't like that plan (but
otherwise were Democrat) does not speak for the entire US... but it does
give you some insight...
Todd
Kirt
> asked that we come together. Assuming that Bush does the same (I'll give him
> the benefit of the doubt)
big assumption. fool me once, shame on him. fool me twice, shame on me.
me @kilroywuzhere Stephan
>
> > It's an attitude brought on by the fact that the US has not been settled
> by
> > any
> > homogeneous group. There has been unity when survival depended on it.
> > Now, as before, those that oppose Bush have decided that his policies
> > are detrimental to the greater good of Americans, and maybe the world in
> > general.
>
>
> See, there you go..... you have absolutely no clue....
>
> Bill Clinton was NOT a left-wing extremist. He was a moderate.. he was
> actually a VERY conservative Democrat. Until you guys accept the fact that
> you lost because the party is misguided (and I'm not talking morals), then
> you're going to continue to lose. You need a candidate that can speak for
> the majority of the population. That is... if you want to continue to be a
> worthy party.
what are you talking about? snippet and reply don't mix
me @kilroywuzhere Stephan
news:418b95bd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> "Stephan" <ask me @ kilroy wuz here> wrote in message
> news:418b8763$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
> > "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> > > Do you honestly think that a moderate
> > > Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church,
> has
> > a
> > > regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
> > "p-Diddy"
> > > with admiration and accept his advice??
> >
> > You're not black, are you?
>
> You think blacks expect that a moderate democrat who has a wife, two kids,
> goes to church and has a desk job would listen with rapt attention to
> p-diddy?
can you say target audience?
Andreas Prucha
> No matter how you want to read the cards... the majority of the United
> States is middle of the road.
Huh?
> The majority of the United States is made up of people who stradle the
> political line.... people usually do not like to vote an extreme....
Hmm, and why did they vote for Bush then? To me, Kerry looks quite
moderate, but Bush does not.
> Regardless of what they want to accomplish.... if they have any chance
> of winning the election in 2008, they need to have a candidate that
> can appeal to BOTH sides... obviously, a candidate that can appeal to
> their left base, but also the middle of the road voters.
>
> Clinton was able to do this...
That's true.
> Blacks only make up 13% of the US population, and less than 1/30th of
> them actually vote.
Hmm, could it be that many who would vote Dems just do not vote because
these parties are so similar? I mean, OK, I would still vote if I have
the choice between center-right and extreme-right, but may be others do
not.
But if I really wanted a left-wing-policy, I might not vote under the
current circumstances.
Kirt
> Until you guys accept the fact that
> you lost because the party is misguided (and I'm not talking morals),
some (non-morals) examples please?
Kirt
> It's in MY Best interest, and the best interest of the country to have an
> apposing party of equal power. While I am happy that Bush won, I am a little
> dismayed that we cleaned the house and senate. It's dangerous for one party
> to have absolute power... REGARDLESS of what party that is, Democrat or
> Republican.
and it's the GOP who get to taste temptation. enjoy ...
Thomas J. Theobald
> Honestly, I don't know where to start... if you truely believe that Kerry
is
> a centrist.. then you just don't get it.
No, kiddo, I'm afraid it is you who just don't get it.
> Kerry is NOT a Centrist... what in the world would make you think he's a
> centrist.
What makes you think he's not? You have a severe misunderstanding of the
platform on which he ran - less than 3% of all persons in the country would
have been eligible for the care plan he was proposing. The remainder would
continue on the plans they already had through their employer or privately.
> He was trying to pass a Nationalized Health Care plan.
>
> For your information, I've seen the Hannity and Colmes show maybe 3-4
times
> in my entire life, and I can honestly say I haven't listened to it in
> probably 2 years.
Then perhaps it was Limbaugh or simply Bush's campaign speeches that gave
you the idea that the Dems are somehow a bunch of frothy radicals, because
you've got a serious misconception problem there, son.
> I also do not listen to the O'Reilly factory, and almost never listen to
> Rush Lumbaugh (probably spelling that wrong too).
>
> You don't know me... at all. You assume to know me, and you're passing
> judgements on me based on pre-conceived notions you have. You have no idea
> what I do, what I listen to, or what I watch.
I know the side of you which you presented here, and that side shows a
casual and willful ignorance of the facts. If you'd care to demonstrate
that you have more depth than a simple troll, I'd welcome the opportunity to
discuss your feelings on how we can bridge the gap.
> You're basing all your views on the polls. If the majority of the country
> really felt Bush was doing a horrible job, then you tell ME why he won.
Because the GOP mobilized evangelical christians (and I use the word
"christian" loosely there, since I have a deep and abiding respect for those
who live by the words and deeds of christ, particularly those of the Sermon
on the Mount and others found in Matthew 25, while I find most evangelicals
to be simply using "christianity" to funnel their hatred of anyone unlike
themselves) by presenting them with 11 states worth of homophobia, and while
they were in there voting their hatred, they ended up voting for the
candidate they felt best represented that hatred disguised in the name of
"values".
> Honestly, I don't think I have any hope of getting through to you... if
you
> TRULY believe that Kerry is a centrist.. then... well, this is mostly
> pointless.
That's true, if you really can't see beyond the blinders of your party's
ideology and use a reasonable definition of centrism. Why, you think Bush
is centrist? From my observation of your writing, I can't believe you're
that stupid.
> The fact that I'm sending this to BPOT is my Borland given right since I
own
> a Borland Product (Delphi 5, 6, and 7 Professional, as well as Java
Builder
> X).
That wasn't my point. Most of what you suggest has no real value here,
since no one out here can really do much about it. It would be better
passed as a letter to the DNC. That you put it out here doesn't really
matter to me, I simply was suggesting a potentially more effective avenue to
vent in.
> With ALL the media support you guys have received over the past 3-4
> years... don't you think... MAYBE just for a second, you might be wrong?
Of course - just not in the way you think. Before you continue on that
assumption you're making, however, don't pretend for a second that the GOP
doesn't have an enormous load of clout in the media now. This is a wholly
different world than existed in the 70's, when one could genuinely and
accurately claim there was a "liberal media."
> I'm not suggesting that you support Republican ideals.... I never once
said
> that. I simply said that the Democrat party needs to seriously reconsider
> the candidates that it chooses. Kerry, regardless of your opinion, IS a
very
> left-leaning liberal. He's from Massachusettes... just like Ted Kennedy.
> They may as well have selected Nancy Pelosi.
Where he comes from has nothing to do with his platform. I maintain to you
that the platform he ran was exceedingly centrist - go check it out for
yourself and tell me what part of it was radical.
> If you want to look at polls.. which you seem to love soo much, close to
50%
> of the people who DID vote for Kerry, did so because he was not Bush. That
That perhaps has a grain of truth to it - but does not invalidate the
centrism of his campaign.
> tells you right there that they simply were not really that fond of
> Kerry....
No, unfortunately it does not. It simply tells me they were very un-fond of
Bush.
> I live in Broward County (which frequently votes 60% Democrat). All of my
> friends tell me that they preferred so and so over Kerry. Kerry won by a
> slim margin over some of the other candidates.
True, and again, that's how democracy works. Kerry did his best to
accumulate the concerns of the Dean, Gephart, Sharpton, et al crowds in
order to represent the party properly.
> You can stick blindly to your values... of which you are clearly in a
> minority, or you can try to appeal to the more moderate voters on the
> Democrat side....
Which is what he did.
> If McCain runs for office next year, and wins the primaries... you can be
> guaranteed that he'll take nearly all of the Independant votes, and
several
> of the Democrat votes.
If McCain had run this year, I'd have voted for him. I might next go-round
too, depending on what his platform looks like and whether he's going to do
something to stop planting GIs in the ground and put together some kind of
plan to stop the abomination that is Bush's budget. If his platform is
better than his opponent's, I'll vote for him.
Andreas Prucha
> An American Left-Extremist would be considered a Right-Wing
> Conservative NUT in Europe.
>
> The United States of America is a capitalist society.
Europe also. The difference is that more people in Europe think that
those who failed in capitalism deserve to have some kind of safety-net.
It's a little bit like a circus-artist with or without safety-net.
The difference is just that every circus-artist choosed the become one.
> The majority of
> us do not want socialist values forced on us. They're not evil... I
> mean, the intent is to help people... but most of us just do not think
> it's fair that someone who doesn't work for what they have earned,
> deserves to be "carried" by the many.
It very much depends if the person does not work because he cannot find a
sufficient job, or if the person does not want to work.
I do not doubt that there are some people which abuse the safety-net, but
IMO the number is not that large. Unemployment payments are not that
highin Europe that it's really fun to live from it.
> There will always be exceptions... you will always have a family that
> hit on hard times, and is starving in the streets. That's VERY
> unfortunate. But in the United States of America.. we do NOT support
> passing legislation that punishes 99% of the country at the expense of
> 1% of the country.
I doubt that it really hurts. And after all such rules give the security
that you could also use the net if you are affected.
> An overwhelming majority of the "homeless" population in the US is
> homeless because of chemical addictions or because of mental
> imbalances.
Probably. And how do you think did that happen? I am quite sure that
previous problems led to that. I doubt that anybody would say "Oh, I feel
so well, I try some hard drugs for fun now".
> Never the less.. Poverty in the US is NOT the same thing as poverty in
> most other countries.
Hmm, I would say that poverty in the US is similar to poverty in Europe,
at least.
> Passing a nationalized health care system would cause a massive
> backfire which would eventually put the big insurance companies out of
> business (Cigna, Blue Cross & Blue Shield, etc).
May be. And what's the problem? Is it the job of the government to
protect businesses if the businesses do not provide what's needed? I
doubt it.
Matt Jacobs
>"Captain Jake" <john...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:418b95bd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> "Stephan" <ask me @ kilroy wuz here> wrote in message
>> news:418b8763$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> >
>> > "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> > > Do you honestly think that a moderate
>> > > Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to church,
>> has
>> > a
>> > > regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
>> > "p-Diddy"
>> > > with admiration and accept his advice??
>> >
>> > You're not black, are you?
>>
>> You think blacks expect that a moderate democrat who has a wife, two kids,
>> goes to church and has a desk job would listen with rapt attention to
>> p-diddy?
>
>can you say target audience?
And audience that doesn't vote no matter what.
--------------------
THE JOHNS WERE FLUSHED NOVEMBER 2, 2004!
(I promise I will only gloat for 48 hours.)
Kyle A. Miller
Todd Super Bassist wrote:
> It may pain you guys to accept this.. but the Democrats are more divided now
> than ever before. You guys are ridiculous.... NOT EVERY DEMOCRAT IS AN
> EXTREME LIBERAL ACTIVIST.
I think that's the dirty little secret they don't discuss in public. The
party is split, and there will be an internal battle for control. The
sooner they resolve this, the sooner they can regroup and trying winning
public support.
> All these actors, concerts, movies that come out blaming Bush.... it's only
The amount of money and energy spent trying take Bush down with little
effect. Very poor ROI.
> Libertarian. But even "I" can tell that there are sooo many better Democrat
> candidates available. Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt... there are soo many
> better candidates... I just cannot understand why they continue to do this?
I kept warning these guys before the election that the democrats did not
pick the best man for the job. They didn't believe me.
> You people are totally alienating those in your party who are more conservative
> and moderate.
You're on to something. The moderates felt more comfortable with the
conservatives. The combined constituency won the election for the
republicans.
Kirt
> Embracing anti war, paranoid conspiracy theorists kooks like Michael Moore?
do the democrats embrace him anymore than republicans embrace jerry falwell?
Kirt
> I didn't see Jerry seated next to Laura Bush at the convention no.
yes, they seem to have learned their lesson after letting him speak. he
and ralph reed stay behind the curtains now.
> And I thought you were looking for some non-moral examples of why the Dem's lost.
i am.
Todd Super Bassist
> > The majority of the United States is made up of people who stradle the
> > political line.... people usually do not like to vote an extreme....
>
> Hmm, and why did they vote for Bush then? To me, Kerry looks quite
> moderate, but Bush does not.
To you maybe... not to the United States. To the US, Kerry is one of THE
most left-leaning Democrat in the Senate. He looks like a Radical
conservative compared to a European parliment.. I'm sure. But we consider
him very left-leaning.
Clinton was FAR more moderate than he.
> > Blacks only make up 13% of the US population, and less than 1/30th of
> > them actually vote.
>
> Hmm, could it be that many who would vote Dems just do not vote because
> these parties are so similar? I mean, OK, I would still vote if I have
> the choice between center-right and extreme-right, but may be others do
> not.
>
> But if I really wanted a left-wing-policy, I might not vote under the
> current circumstances.
To citizens of the US, there is a difference. Do remember that there is a
significant difference between what a liberal is in Europe, and what a
liberal is in the US.
There are many religious Democrats (vast majority of blacks in the US are
highly religious).
In most of Europe, they don't even have church masses anymore... most of the
churches have turned into bars, night clubs, and museums...
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> some (non-morals) examples please?
National Health Care plan.... that's Socialist....
Looked highly down upon by the majority of the US.
Todd
San Francis Bo
> To the US, Kerry is one of THE
> most left-leaning Democrat in the Senate.
Just proves how far right the senate is. It's so sad.
--
Francis
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1
San Francis Bo
> National Health Care plan.... that's Socialist....
>
> Looked highly down upon by the majority of the US.
That happens if you don't know what you're talking about.
--
Todd Super Bassist
"Kirt" <kirtha...@acsplus.com> wrote in message
news:418bcbfb$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Billb wrote:
>
> > Embracing anti war, paranoid conspiracy theorists kooks like Michael
Moore?
>
> do the democrats embrace him anymore than republicans embrace jerry
falwell?
Who is Jerry Falwell?
Rudy Velthuis
> "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:418ba35b$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
> > He was trying to pass a Nationalized Health Care plan.
> >
> LOL, and only extreme left communist countries have those.
All European countries are communist since the Iron Curtain was
removed. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee
-- that will do them in." -- Bradley's Bromide.
Rudy Velthuis
> It's in MY Best interest, and the best interest of the country to
> have an apposing party of equal power.
Well, if you meant "opposing", you obviously have one. Be happy with
it. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance"
- - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Rudy Velthuis
> Honestly, I think it's kinda funny how you guys keep posting about how
> miserable this is, blah blah blah....
I think it's kind of funny how you seem to think your opinion about us
interests us. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Just because bulldozers are used to build highways doesn't mean
bulldozers are the best way to travel on a highway."
-- Danny Thorpe in borland.public.delphi.non-technical
Rudy Velthuis
> Honestly, I don't know where to start... if you truely believe that
> Kerry is a centrist.. then you just don't get it.
>
> Kerry is NOT a Centrist... what in the world would make you think
> he's a centrist.
Indeed, he is rather far right for a centrist. But at least he is a lot
closer than the current government. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"First you forget names, then you forget faces. Next you forget to
pull your zipper up and finally, you forget to pull it down."
-- George Burns.
Rudy Velthuis
> The United States of America is a capitalist society.
LOL! And we here have thrown all our belongings together, live from the
Community, work in Five Year Plans and run around in grey suits quoting
Mao. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"If people can judge me on the company I keep, they would judge me with
keeping really good company with Laura." -- George W. Bush
Rudy Velthuis
> An American Left-Extremist would be considered a Right-Wing
> Conservative NUT in Europe.
Oh Todd, you have already displayed your complete ignorance of European
matters. Repeating the ignorant claims doesn't improve it.
No, an extreme left winger in the US would be an extremist here as
well. But our center is quite a lot more to the left than your center.
Currently, the extreme right is *claiming* the center in the US, and
that they call everyone left of them extreme left, even people like
moderate Republicans, or paloconservatives. Problem is, that they have
been so successful in convincing everyone, even the press, that people,
even Democrats, have started believing it.
It will take some time for the Democrats to recover from that, and to
show people how they have been framed.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"All I need to make a comedy is a park, a policeman and a pretty girl."
-- Charlie Chaplin (1889-1977), in My Autobiography (1964)
Rudy Velthuis
> What can I say? Wow. Great post.
LOL! Yes, you and Todd would make a great pair...
... of comedians. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
Bible, Dijkstra 5:15
"and the clueless shall spend their time reinventing the wheel while the
elite merely use the Wordstar key mappings" -- Ed Mulroy
Todd Super Bassist
>
> Europe also. The difference is that more people in Europe think that
> those who failed in capitalism deserve to have some kind of safety-net.
>
> It's a little bit like a circus-artist with or without safety-net.
>
> The difference is just that every circus-artist choosed the become one.
Look, it's a different culture here... people in Europe are generally far
less materialistic... for whatever reason that might be, they are (at least
from what I've experienced). In the US, we are very materialistic. I don't
hold my worldy posessions over my wife, or my friends.. or any of that, but
here in the US, we have a very materialistic society, I think this.. you
realize.
Our society simply CANNOT live with any form of socialism because everyone
would be using this safety net. What safety nets we DO have, are being
completely taken advantage of...
> It very much depends if the person does not work because he cannot find a
> sufficient job, or if the person does not want to work.
>
> I do not doubt that there are some people which abuse the safety-net, but
> IMO the number is not that large. Unemployment payments are not that
> highin Europe that it's really fun to live from it.
Some people are lazy, that's unfortunate... but we have LESS outsourcing in
our country, than Europe has.. what with Bosch and several other companies
who simply don't want to pay what the Unions are demanding.
By the way, we HAVE unemployment... it's paid for by our previous company.
(Government mandated, but not paid for by taxpayer money)
> > An overwhelming majority of the "homeless" population in the US is
> > homeless because of chemical addictions or because of mental
> > imbalances.
>
> Probably. And how do you think did that happen? I am quite sure that
> previous problems led to that. I doubt that anybody would say "Oh, I feel
> so well, I try some hard drugs for fun now".
If you're going to tell me that drug abuse is "optional" then you're
seriously wrong. All opinions aside, it's been determined that many people
have a propencity due to their personality type that makes them very
suseptible to such addicitions. My brother died from drug use. He had a
problem... but I don't want to go into that. My last serious girlfriend... I
don't normally admit this. She had a drug problem, as a matter of fact, she
became a prostitute and lived on the street to pay for her addiciton. I met
her afterwards when she had already been clean for 6 years in "NA". She told
me about this before we started our relationship.... does that suddenly make
a caring and understanding liberal? Oh wait, I'm a Republican.
People who have a chemical imbalance did not aquire this imbalance simply
because the line at Mc.Donalds was too long. They were born with it. My
cousin is a paranoid szchitophrenic with obsessive compulsive disorder and
ADHD. He is perfectly normal for 6 months out of the year, and then totally
flips out. Every 6 months, he'll become manic, and end up on the street
living in shelters. He personally knows what the homeless shelters are like
at all four corners of the United States. He refuses to take any medication,
and he's SOOO intelligent that when we try to "Baker Act" him (a law that
holds a psychopath for up to 48 hours to determine if he needs to be
institutioned) he totally fools the doctors and they let him go 8 hours
later... every single time.
There, you now know my family problems and secrets....
> > Passing a nationalized health care system would cause a massive
> > backfire which would eventually put the big insurance companies out of
> > business (Cigna, Blue Cross & Blue Shield, etc).
>
> May be. And what's the problem? Is it the job of the government to
> protect businesses if the businesses do not provide what's needed? I
> doubt it.
No, it certainly isn't, and I don't support it.
Air Bus seems to enjoy that quite a bit though.....
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
>
> > Kerry is NOT a Centrist... what in the world would make you think he's a
> > centrist.
>
> What makes you think he's not? You have a severe misunderstanding of the
> platform on which he ran - less than 3% of all persons in the country
would
> have been eligible for the care plan he was proposing. The remainder
would
> continue on the plans they already had through their employer or
privately.
Bush is also right-extreme... but the only reason why the majority of
Democrats voted for Kerry is because they DIDN'T want Bush. (using the polls
that you too have iterated to me).
> Then perhaps it was Limbaugh or simply Bush's campaign speeches that gave
> you the idea that the Dems are somehow a bunch of frothy radicals, because
> you've got a serious misconception problem there, son.
The Democrats have existed long before Bush became president. I wasn't born
yesterday, I've been following politics for a while.
> I know the side of you which you presented here, and that side shows a
> casual and willful ignorance of the facts. If you'd care to demonstrate
> that you have more depth than a simple troll, I'd welcome the opportunity
to
> discuss your feelings on how we can bridge the gap.
It isn't 50/50.
There are two extremes... but the majority of the US sits in the middle. Why
do you think Clinton was sooo wildly popular?
> > You're basing all your views on the polls. If the majority of the
country
> > really felt Bush was doing a horrible job, then you tell ME why he won.
>
> Because the GOP mobilized evangelical christians (and I use the word
> "christian" loosely there, since I have a deep and abiding respect for
those
> who live by the words and deeds of christ, particularly those of the
Sermon
> on the Mount and others found in Matthew 25, while I find most
evangelicals
> to be simply using "christianity" to funnel their hatred of anyone unlike
> themselves) by presenting them with 11 states worth of homophobia, and
while
> they were in there voting their hatred, they ended up voting for the
> candidate they felt best represented that hatred disguised in the name of
> "values".
>
> > Honestly, I don't think I have any hope of getting through to you... if
> you
> > TRULY believe that Kerry is a centrist.. then... well, this is mostly
> > pointless.
>
> That's true, if you really can't see beyond the blinders of your party's
> ideology and use a reasonable definition of centrism. Why, you think Bush
> is centrist? From my observation of your writing, I can't believe you're
> that stupid.
The argument that you are using for me, is exactly the argument I am using
for you.
I never, ABSOLUTELY never said that Bush was a centrist. I want you to show
me... right now, where I said he was a centrist. I am MUCH more middle of
the road than simply being Republican through and through. If we had a
strong Independant party candidate, who believed in the same issues I do
(strong military, smaller government, paying down the debt, no socialism,
more state control less federal control, less lobbying corruption) then I
would vote for him in a second.
> That wasn't my point. Most of what you suggest has no real value here,
> since no one out here can really do much about it. It would be better
> passed as a letter to the DNC. That you put it out here doesn't really
> matter to me, I simply was suggesting a potentially more effective avenue
to
> vent in.
The Democrats realize now, after all the efforts they have put forth, what
they need to do. Some of them DO realize.. that they're trying to appeal to
TOO narrow of a group of people.
All Bush comments aside for one second... WOULDN'T you rather have a
political candidate like Clinton who was more well liked "overall", who
COULD bridge the gap, than someone like Kerry who... the only reason why
people were voting for him was because they didn't like Bush.,.. NOT that
they liked Kerry, but they didn't like Bush. Seems a stupid reason to vote
or someone...
They should have thought about that during the primaries. Dick Gephardt, or
even Joe Liberman were two excellent candidates...
> Of course - just not in the way you think. Before you continue on that
> assumption you're making, however, don't pretend for a second that the GOP
> doesn't have an enormous load of clout in the media now. This is a wholly
> different world than existed in the 70's, when one could genuinely and
> accurately claim there was a "liberal media."
I never did.... for whatever reason... "like I said" the Democrats have been
narrowing the range of supporters more and more. The part of the media that
IS liberal, has been getting worse, this HAS disgusted many people and has
allowed MANY staunt republican media outlets to present themselves. Fox
News... while their actual news reporting might not be totally biased,
nearly all of their shows are conservative. You have tons of radio speakers
who are very conservative... there's a reason... and the reason is because
the Democrats are focusing too much to their extreme side.. rather than
making themselves open to the middle... (where MANY of their supporters
are).
> Where he comes from has nothing to do with his platform. I maintain to
you
> that the platform he ran was exceedingly centrist - go check it out for
> yourself and tell me what part of it was radical.
Here we GO again.... "National Health Care" (EXTREMELY socialist Idea.. not
supported by the vast majority of the people in the US).
> That perhaps has a grain of truth to it - but does not invalidate the
> centrism of his campaign.
Which campaign? They were both critisized by eachother....
> No, unfortunately it does not. It simply tells me they were very un-fond
of
> Bush.
This is double speak.... you're saying the same thing, but refusing to
admit the other side of the fact. While they may have been very un-fond of
Bush, they also did NOT vote for Kerry because they were fond of HIM.
Todd Super Bassist
"Rudy Velthuis" <velt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dpevphh2un70...@www.teamb.com...
> Todd Super Bassist wrote:
>
> > An American Left-Extremist would be considered a Right-Wing
> > Conservative NUT in Europe.
>
> Oh Todd, you have already displayed your complete ignorance of European
> matters. Repeating the ignorant claims doesn't improve it.
>
> No, an extreme left winger in the US would be an extremist here as
> well. But our center is quite a lot more to the left than your center.
>
> Currently, the extreme right is *claiming* the center in the US, and
> that they call everyone left of them extreme left, even people like
> moderate Republicans, or paloconservatives. Problem is, that they have
> been so successful in convincing everyone, even the press, that people,
> even Democrats, have started believing it.
>
> It will take some time for the Democrats to recover from that, and to
> show people how they have been framed.
>
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Are you talking about Europe now??? Because I never considered Bush a
centrist.... I don't know why you guys keep saying that. What television
stations have you been watching that shows Bush a centrist??? He's
absolutely NOT a centrist.
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> LOL! Yes, you and Todd would make a great pair...
>
> ... of comedians. <g>
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
The difference is... the people who you support "LOST".
Rudy Velthuis
> > > An American Left-Extremist would be considered a Right-Wing
> > > Conservative NUT in Europe.
> >
> > Oh Todd, you have already displayed your complete ignorance of
> > European matters. Repeating the ignorant claims doesn't improve it.
> >
> > No, an extreme left winger in the US would be an extremist here as
> > well. But our center is quite a lot more to the left than your
> > center.
> >
> > Currently, the extreme right is claiming the center in the US, and
> > that they call everyone left of them extreme left, even people like
> > moderate Republicans, or paloconservatives. Problem is, that they
> > have been so successful in convincing everyone, even the press,
> > that people, even Democrats, have started believing it.
> >
> > It will take some time for the Democrats to recover from that, and
> > to show people how they have been framed.
> >
> > --
> > Rudy Velthuis
>
>
> Are you talking about Europe now???
I was talking about your ignorance of European matters in my first
paragraph. See above.
> Because I never considered Bush a
> centrist.... I don't know why you guys keep saying that.
I have never claimed YOU said that. I know that the Bushists are
claiming it.
> What
> television stations have you been watching that shows Bush a
> centrist??? He's absolutely NOT a centrist.
I know. He is extreme right wing.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by
candlelight." -- George Gobol.
Andreas Prucha
> To you maybe... not to the United States. To the US, Kerry is one of
> THE most left-leaning Democrat in the Senate.
Hmm, since he almost got half of the votes, it seems that the US does not
have such a big problem with far left-leaning democrats.
> He looks like a Radical
> conservative compared to a European parliment.. I'm sure. But we
> consider him very left-leaning.
Hmm, no, not really.
> To citizens of the US, there is a difference. Do remember that there
> is a significant difference between what a liberal is in Europe, and
> what a liberal is in the US.
Yes, of course. I guess the US is the only country that considers
liberals as left-leaning.
Todd Super Bassist
> All European countries are communist since the Iron Curtain was
> removed. <g>
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Oooh, do you resent Reagan?
Europeans clearly hate American arrogance... I can't help but laugh.. I know
it's rude... and I should be more sympathetic... but I'm sorry.
Hahah..
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> > miserable this is, blah blah blah....
>
> I think it's kind of funny how you seem to think your opinion about us
> interests us. <g>
>
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
It must, or you wouldn't have made the effort to tell me it didn't.
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> > To citizens of the US, there is a difference. Do remember that there
> > is a significant difference between what a liberal is in Europe, and
> > what a liberal is in the US.
>
> Yes, of course. I guess the US is the only country that considers
> liberals as left-leaning.
Yes... we do, but this is the US, not Europe...
Todd
Rudy Velthuis
> > All European countries are communist since the Iron Curtain was
> > removed. <g>
> Oooh, do you resent Reagan?
ROTFLMBO! I have no idea how Reagan comes into play, but I bet you
thought I was being serious, and required a serious reply.
It may come as a bit of a surprise to you, but Europe is just as
capitalist as the US. But we do it without the social hardness many of
the "authoritarian parent" conservatives seem to favour.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"I'm always amazed to hear of air crash victims so badly mutilated
that they have to be identified by their dental records. What I can't
understand is, if they don't know who you are, how do they know who
your dentist is?" -- Paul Merton.
Todd Super Bassist
> ROTFLMBO! I have no idea how Reagan comes into play, but I bet you
> thought I was being serious, and required a serious reply.
>
> It may come as a bit of a surprise to you, but Europe is just as
> capitalist as the US. But we do it without the social hardness many of
> the "authoritarian parent" conservatives seem to favour.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Oooh, like Sweden? Who's lost all of their major manufacturing... Saab and
Volvo to American companies?
It's wonderful that you Europeans are sooo concerned with American job
outsourcing, and that you're soo concerned with our elections (can't say I
even remember the last election in any of the European countries)... but, I
think you should be more concerned with your OWN job outsourcing...
Todd
Andreas Prucha
> Some people are lazy, that's unfortunate... but we have LESS
> outsourcing in our country, than Europe has.. what with Bosch and
> several other companies who simply don't want to pay what the Unions
> are demanding.
I think it's impossible to avoid that completely. It's just almost
impossible to compete with developing countries by price, but possible to
some degree to compete via higher productivity or quality.
> By the way, we HAVE unemployment... it's paid for by our previous
> company. (Government mandated, but not paid for by taxpayer money)
Hmm, in Austria it's some kind of "public unemployment insurance". The
employee pays a little share of the income as premium. Of course you can
consider this a tax, but formally it's not a tax.
I do not remember the details now, but IIRC you get unemployment money
(IIRC 70 % of previous income) for 6 months. After 6 months you only get
"social help", which is IIRC about 500 EUR a month. It's hardly possible
to live with that money because you do not get it if the income of the
spouse is high enough. It's hardly possible to live with 500 EUR a month.
Seriously, I doubt that the majority of those who receive this money want
to live from it. True, they might not get a job that pays only 550 EUR a
month since there is no significant advantage to take it. But is it
really good to force somebody to work and help a company to make profit
if the person can hardly live from the income?
> If you're going to tell me that drug abuse is "optional" then you're
> seriously wrong. All opinions aside, it's been determined that many
> people have a propencity due to their personality type that makes them
> very suseptible to such addicitions.
Huh. Basically that's what I said.
> My brother died from drug use. He
> had a problem... but I don't want to go into that. My last serious
> girlfriend... I don't normally admit this. She had a drug problem, as
> a matter of fact, she became a prostitute and lived on the street to
> pay for her addiciton. I met her afterwards when she had already been
> clean for 6 years in "NA". She told me about this before we started
> our relationship.... does that suddenly make a caring and
> understanding liberal? Oh wait, I'm a Republican.
What I mean is that it's not good to punish people who became drug
addicted because it's often not really their fault. True, they might have
made a bad decision, but I doubt that they made the decision under
circumstances which can be considered as free decision.
> People who have a chemical imbalance did not aquire this imbalance
> simply because the line at Mc.Donalds was too long. They were born
> with it.
Yep, no doubt about that. But it's also possible that many events drove
them into a position they want to escape, IMO.
> My cousin is a paranoid szchitophrenic with obsessive
> compulsive disorder and ADHD. He is perfectly normal for 6 months out
> of the year, and then totally flips out. Every 6 months, he'll become
> manic, and end up on the street living in shelters. He personally
> knows what the homeless shelters are like at all four corners of the
> United States. He refuses to take any medication, and he's SOOO
> intelligent that when we try to "Baker Act" him (a law that holds a
> psychopath for up to 48 hours to determine if he needs to be
> institutioned) he totally fools the doctors and they let him go 8
> hours later... every single time.
<g>
But what does he think about this during the 6 "normal" months?
Todd Super Bassist
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
If you REALLY REALLY didn't care... you wouldn't have bothered responding..
again... because it wouldn't have mattered what "I" perceived.
Rudy Velthuis
> It's wonderful that you Europeans are sooo concerned with American job
> outsourcing
I'm not. You can outsource all you want, AFAIC.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"A hen is only an egg’s way of making another egg." -- Samuel Butler
Kirt
> I think it's kind of funny how you seem to think your opinion about us
> interests us. <g>
can't imagine how he'd get that idea :)
Rudy Velthuis
> If you REALLY REALLY didn't care... you wouldn't have bothered
> responding.. again... because it wouldn't have mattered what "I"
> perceived.
If you say so. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth
Rudy Velthuis
> Rudy Velthuis wrote:
>
> > "Life is like a box of chocolates." -- Forest Gump
>
> Forrest has two "r"'s.
>
> Now write that a hundrit times, feller.
<sigh>
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
Forrest has two "r"s.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Many a man's reputation would not know his character if they met on
the street."
- Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
Rudy Velthuis
>
> > ROTFLMBO! I have no idea how Reagan comes into play, but I bet you
> > thought I was being serious, and required a serious reply.
> >
> > It may come as a bit of a surprise to you, but Europe is just as
> > capitalist as the US. But we do it without the social hardness many
> > of the "authoritarian parent" conservatives seem to favour.
>
> Oooh, like Sweden?
I have no idea what you mean, but Sweden seems to be doing very well,
and indeed, without the social hardness. Volvo and Saab are still
manufactured there, and elsewhere, as before.
So I guess one could say yes, indeed, like Sweden.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Half this game is ninety percent mental." -- Yogi Berra
Rudy Velthuis
>
> > It's an attitude brought on by the fact that the US has not been
> > settled by any
> > homogeneous group. There has been unity when survival depended on
> > it. Now, as before, those that oppose Bush have decided that his
> > policies are detrimental to the greater good of Americans, and
> > maybe the world in general.
>
>
> See, there you go..... you have absolutely no clue....
>
> Bill Clinton was NOT a left-wing extremist. He was a moderate.
Hmmm... I don't see any mention of Clinton in his post. I guess you
lost your clue, and now try to take his. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." -- Sun Tzu
Rudy Velthuis
> Todd Super Bassist wrote on 11/5/2004 11:29:
> > To the US, Kerry is one of THE
> > most left-leaning Democrat in the Senate.
>
> Just proves how far right the senate is. It's so sad.
You got caught in the right wing frames. He is not the most
left-leaning Democrat at all. But if he were, so what?
--
Rudy Velthuis
"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers.
We are the president." -- Hillary Clinton.
Rudy Velthuis
>
> > some (non-morals) examples please?
>
> National Health Care plan.... that's Socialist....
You're clueless about this, as ever.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Devlin's First Law - Buyer beware: in the hands of a charlatan,
mathematics
can be used to make a vacuous argument look impressive.
Devlin's Second Law - So can PowerPoint." -- Keith Devlin
San Francis Bo
> San Francis Bo wrote:
>>Todd Super Bassist wrote on 11/5/2004 11:29:
>>>To the US, Kerry is one of THE
>>>most left-leaning Democrat in the Senate.
>>
>>Just proves how far right the senate is. It's so sad.
>
> You got caught in the right wing frames. He is not the most
> left-leaning Democrat at all. But if he were, so what?
<Rudy>
Huh?
</Rudy>
--
Francis
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1
Andreas Prucha
@newsgroups.borland.com:
> Are you talking about Europe now??? Because I never considered Bush a
> centrist.... I don't know why you guys keep saying that. What television
> stations have you been watching that shows Bush a centrist??? He's
> absolutely NOT a centrist.
Hmm, OK. But you said that you wanted a centrist.
Rudy Velthuis
> Who is Jerry Falwell?
Is that a trick question?
--
Rudy Velthuis
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein
Todd Super Bassist
> You got caught in the right wing frames. He is not the most
> left-leaning Democrat at all. But if he were, so what?
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Well, the problem is that... if he was (which he is), then he will lose the
vote of those who are left leaning, but not as significantly as him.
You can be yourself... but if what you are isn't appreciated by the
majority, then you're nothing more than a radical with a minority of
supporters. If you want to be president, you have to pander to the majority
(which Kerry tried to do, failed, and ended up looking like a flip-flopper)
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
"Andreas Prucha" <pru...@helicon.co.at> wrote in message
news:Xns9598E1551857F...@helicon.co.at...
> "Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:418bdc06
> @newsgroups.borland.com:
>
> > Are you talking about Europe now??? Because I never considered Bush a
> > centrist.... I don't know why you guys keep saying that. What television
> > stations have you been watching that shows Bush a centrist??? He's
> > absolutely NOT a centrist.
>
> Hmm, OK. But you said that you wanted a centrist.
Well, I do... but I voted for Bush because I would much prefer a
right-radical than a left-radical.
I would MUCH prefer someone like McCain though....
But, I was saying that the DEMOCRATS should support a centrist candidate..
and then they'll get more votes.
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
>
> You're clueless about this, as ever.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
75% of the cost of the health care plan will be paid for by Federal Taxes.
Andreas Prucha
> Oooh, like Sweden? Who's lost all of their major manufacturing... Saab
> and Volvo to American companies?
Hmm, but AFAIK the unemployment rate of Sweden has been quite low.
Todd Super Bassist
"Rudy Velthuis" <velt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dpey5610pjm0...@www.teamb.com...
> Todd Super Bassist wrote:
>
> > Who is Jerry Falwell?
>
> Is that a trick question?
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
I honestly have no idea....
I spend more time looking for the negatives of the Democrat party than I do
the negatives of my own party. Perhaps you can enlighten me?
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> and indeed, without the social hardness. Volvo and Saab are still
> manufactured there, and elsewhere, as before.
>
> So I guess one could say yes, indeed, like Sweden.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Don't be too surprised if eventually Volvo and Saab end up like Jaguar....
What? the Coventry plant???
Todd
Jim McKay
>Who is Jerry Falwell?
He's the religous right moral authority who said...
- 9/11 was God's payback for US tolerating homosexuality
- Uhhh, I'm sorry.
- No I'm not.
- Yes, I am.
<etc., etc.>
This, and other famous Falwell blurbs is here:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/
And his post election gloat is here:
http://www.falwell.com/?a=p&content=1077559813&PHPSESSID=adc15936d7f497a
3e952779bcb9a759c
or http://shorl.com/bostymigufrova
If this stuff floats you boat, perhaps you may want
to enroll in his university at same URL.
--
Regards:
Jim McKay
I can remember the first time I had to go to sleep. Mom said,
"Steven, time to go to sleep." I said, "But I don't know how."
She said, "It's real easy. Just go down to the end of tired and
hang a left." So I went down to the end of tired, and just out
of curiosity I hung a right. My mother was there, and she
said "I thought I told you to go to sleep."
-- Steven Wright
Posted with XanaNews: Ver: 1.16.3.1
Todd Super Bassist
> I do not remember the details now, but IIRC you get unemployment money
> (IIRC 70 % of previous income) for 6 months. After 6 months you only get
> "social help", which is IIRC about 500 EUR a month. It's hardly possible
> to live with that money because you do not get it if the income of the
> spouse is high enough. It's hardly possible to live with 500 EUR a month.
> Seriously, I doubt that the majority of those who receive this money want
> to live from it. True, they might not get a job that pays only 550 EUR a
> month since there is no significant advantage to take it. But is it
> really good to force somebody to work and help a company to make profit
> if the person can hardly live from the income?
It's actually a very fair and decent plan as far as I can tell. The
government mandates that the company pays for it. A company (or companies)
will pay for it based on the time employed by them. (determines which
company will pay the most).
You can collect unemployment for 6 months, and then have to re-apply. Every
month, you have to submit a statement (rather degrading actually) where you
list all the companies you've applied to, and any companies you went on an
interview with. They will continue to allow you to collect unemployment
until you find a job in your career field. (They don't demand that you get a
lower paying job of a different career).
The one thing that's weird is... if you DO decide to take a job at say..
Mc.Donalds, any money you make from that you are required by law to declare.
When you do declare it, they subtract that from what they give you in your
weekly unemployment checks.
The checks are actually quite decent.
At the time, I was making $37,000 a year. The unemployment I received was
$1,250 a month. This was enough for me to continue to pay for my apartment,
pay my electric and just enough to get food.
> What I mean is that it's not good to punish people who became drug
> addicted because it's often not really their fault. True, they might have
> made a bad decision, but I doubt that they made the decision under
> circumstances which can be considered as free decision.
Well... I wouldn't call it a free decision as people who USE drugs, do so
because of a form of chemical imbalance (almost in every case). Some people
use it to be accepted in the group their in, others do so because they do
not experience that natural high that you or I might. They feel depressed
often, and end up self medicating. When it gets bad enough, there is
literally nothing that you can do for them... the problem being that they
will absolutely refuse help.... they cannot be helped until they hit rock
bottom.. and realize that they have to help themselves first (which consists
of nothing more than allowing other people to help them).
> > People who have a chemical imbalance did not aquire this imbalance
> > simply because the line at Mc.Donalds was too long. They were born
> > with it.
>
> Yep, no doubt about that. But it's also possible that many events drove
> them into a position they want to escape, IMO.
True, but those people usually suffer temporary insanity... because of an
event that drove them to madness either through losing a long-time job, a
divorce, catching their significant other cheating.. etc.. but it is only
temporary. Those who live on the street are there because of a genetic
chemical imbalance.
> > My cousin is a paranoid szchitophrenic with obsessive
> > compulsive disorder and ADHD. He is perfectly normal for 6 months out
> > of the year, and then totally flips out. Every 6 months, he'll become
> > manic, and end up on the street living in shelters. He personally
> > knows what the homeless shelters are like at all four corners of the
> > United States. He refuses to take any medication, and he's SOOO
> > intelligent that when we try to "Baker Act" him (a law that holds a
> > psychopath for up to 48 hours to determine if he needs to be
> > institutioned) he totally fools the doctors and they let him go 8
> > hours later... every single time.
>
> <g>
>
> But what does he think about this during the 6 "normal" months?
THAT.. right there is what is so unbelievably frustrating.... He'll be
perfectly fine... and then go insane (could be sparked by anything.. and
lasts for a long time). When he finally begins to come out of it.. he'll
have moments of sanity where he'll call his parents, or another family
member (like me) and beg for help. No less than 30 minutes later.. he'll
turn manic again (did I mention he also suffers from Bi-polar disorder
during his manic stages) and suddenly be under the impression that he no
longer needs help and that everyone is out to get him. Over time (usually
over the span of a week or so since the first signs of recovering) his
periods of reality will last longer, and his periods of manic will be
shorter... it will stay like this until he finally comes to his senses.
Then... it's constant.. "Oh.. I'm soo sorry, I'm sorry I spread lies about
this and told these people that.. and so and soo.. I'm soo sorry, I don't
deserve your help.. blah blah..."
And then when we go to help him (send him to a doctor to be evaluated or try
to put him on medication) he starts to get nervous and then starts living
under sort of a "high" so to speak... he then insists that he can overcome
this himself.
When his next manic stage hits... he literally has NO idea that he's
insane... it's almost like a completely different personality. He truely
believes that "HE" is normal, and that everyone else just simply doesn't
understand him. He'll do crazy things like run around naked, or have sex
with whoever shows interest (like.. he'll knock on a neighbors door, naked,
and ask the lady at the door if she wants to have sex with him.... believe
it or not, sometimes it works!).
Todd
Rudy Velthuis
> > > National Health Care plan.... that's Socialist....
> >
> > You're clueless about this, as ever.
> > --
> > Rudy Velthuis
>
>
> 75% of the cost of the health care plan will be paid for by Federal
> Taxes.
Yes, so?
See it as an investment in the health of America. Healthy people, not
afraid of falling ill, feel better and achieve more.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to
California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to
California." -- George W. Bush
Rudy Velthuis
> I spend more time looking for the negatives of the Democrat party
> than I do the negatives of my own party.
Hmmm... interesting way to waste your time. <g>
But I'm sure Google can give you much more information about Falwell
than I can. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis
"I have yet to meet a C compiler that is more friendly and easier to
use than eating soup with a knife." -- unknown
Rudy Velthuis
>
> > You got caught in the right wing frames. He is not the most
> > left-leaning Democrat at all. But if he were, so what?
> > --
> > Rudy Velthuis
>
> Well, the problem is that... if he was (which he is)
I don't think he is. But it doesn't matter, actually. Being extremist
doesn't seem to be a handicap for Bush. Problem is that the right have
faith-based voters, while the Democrats have tried to convince people
with facts. That doesn't work with faith-based people.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything,
and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my
notions
have only wasted my time."
-- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
Andreas Prucha
> Well... I wouldn't call it a free decision as people who USE drugs, do
> so because of a form of chemical imbalance (almost in every case).
How do you define "chemical inbalance". Depressions, or something like
that?
> Some people use it to be accepted in the group their in, others do so
> because they do not experience that natural high that you or I might.
> They feel depressed often, and end up self medicating. When it gets
> bad enough, there is literally nothing that you can do for them... the
> problem being that they will absolutely refuse help.... they cannot be
> helped until they hit rock bottom.. and realize that they have to help
> themselves first (which consists of nothing more than allowing other
> people to help them).
Or if suddenly something occurs which gives them a good reason, IMO.
> True, but those people usually suffer temporary insanity... because of
> an event that drove them to madness either through losing a long-time
> job, a divorce, catching their significant other cheating.. etc.. but
> it is only temporary. Those who live on the street are there because
> of a genetic chemical imbalance.
May be. Or just a row of really bad events which caused drug abuse. Once
on it it's probably very difficult to live a normal live.
> THAT.. right there is what is so unbelievably frustrating.... He'll be
> perfectly fine... and then go insane (could be sparked by anything..
> and lasts for a long time).
No, I mean, what does he think about taking medication during this time?
> And then when we go to help him (send him to a doctor to be evaluated
> or try to put him on medication) he starts to get nervous and then
> starts living under sort of a "high" so to speak... he then insists
> that he can overcome this himself.
Hm.
> When his next manic stage hits... he literally has NO idea that he's
> insane... it's almost like a completely different personality. He
> truely believes that "HE" is normal, and that everyone else just
> simply doesn't understand him. He'll do crazy things like run around
> naked, or have sex with whoever shows interest (like.. he'll knock on
> a neighbors door, naked, and ask the lady at the door if she wants to
> have sex with him.... believe it or not, sometimes it works!).
Hmm, now I understand why he refuses treatment <g>
Rudy Velthuis
> Don't be too surprised if eventually Volvo and Saab end up like
> Jaguar...
I'm not easily surprised.
--
Rudy Velthuis
"Sailors ought never to go to church. They ought to go to hell, where
it is much more comfortable." -- HG Wells.
Todd Super Bassist
>
> He's the religous right moral authority who said...
>
> - 9/11 was God's payback for US tolerating homosexuality
> - Uhhh, I'm sorry.
> - No I'm not.
> - Yes, I am.
> <etc., etc.>
>
> This, and other famous Falwell blurbs is here:
> http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/
>
> And his post election gloat is here:
> http://www.falwell.com/?a=p&content=1077559813&PHPSESSID=adc15936d7f497a
> 3e952779bcb9a759c
> or http://shorl.com/bostymigufrova
>
> If this stuff floats you boat, perhaps you may want
> to enroll in his university at same URL.
>
> --
> Regards:
> Jim McKay
Well, the guy sounds like a psychopath... so I'm not even going to bother.
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> I don't think he is. But it doesn't matter, actually. Being extremist
> doesn't seem to be a handicap for Bush. Problem is that the right have
> faith-based voters, while the Democrats have tried to convince people
> with facts. That doesn't work with faith-based people.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Nothing personal, but you're a complete fool if you think that the
Republican party is totally evil, and the Democrat party is sugar and spice.
Both parties use vast trickery and mis-information to sway voters.
Occasionally, you get a few good senators who help pass laws such as the
HIPAA compliancy act of 1996, or the Age Discrimination Act of 1984, etc....
Todd
Andreas Prucha
tos...@www.teamb.com:
> See it as an investment in the health of America. Healthy people, not
> afraid of falling ill, feel better and achieve more.
Hmm, they may be still afraid falling ill, but at least not afraid not to
be able to pay treatment if it really happens.
Andreas Prucha
news:Xns9598E64...@207.105.83.66:
> Andreas Prucha wrote:
>
>> What's wrong about that?
>
> That some people think they pay more than what they get in return. Elbow
> society.
Hmm, IC.
Todd Super Bassist
>
> > 75% of the cost of the health care plan will be paid for by Federal
> > Taxes.
>
> that? I mean, it's not 75 % of the taxes going into health care, but 75 %
> of the costs of these plan are paid by taxes. IIRC this was a plan for
> people who do not have another way to get health insurance, not a
> European-style system of public health care for everybody. What's wrong
> about that?
It is true. The point of me saying it is...
If I'm currently paying tax money for the Federal Health Care plan, and I
know that I can eliminate my OWN health care plan and save $60 bucks a
month. Why wouldn't I?
I'm a pretty healthy guy... I only go in for my usual checkups, and the
occasional emergency visit (metal shard in the eye from sanding down a
battery tray I welded into my car).
EVERYONE qualifies for the Federal Health Care plan...... everyone.
There is no logical reason why I would bother paying for an additional
health care plan unless I absolutely have to.
I would not be the only one... this would be a continuous cycle... smaller
companies will stop offering health care plans when the government already
offers one.
Eventually Cigna, Blue Cross & Blue Shield, and several others would go out
of business because people would pull out.
Over time, everyone would be on this Federal Plan.... suddenly, what wasn't
so expensive, now is.. and we would be paying a SIGNIFICANT amount more in
taxes than ever before.
Now, this really wouldn't be such a problem except for the fact that people
in the United States are overly fat and lazy. Gas is cheap, most of us don't
ride Vespas and bicycles back and forth to work like Europeans do. We eat
Mc.Donalds, drink beer watching the SuperBowl... etc...
We have the largest obesity rate of any country in the world (by FAR)...
We have more triple by-pass surgeries per week than any other nation has in
a month.
I don't see why I should pay for someone's triple by-pass surgery who has
been totally irresponsible with their body.
I refuse to believe that eating junkfood is an addicition. Hardly a fat
person existed in the 50s...
People are lazy, and just don't care.
Now... I TRULY believe that we should help those who cannot help themselves.
This includes children, disabled people, and old people. We have several
independant "Acts" and plans that provide this. Hospice for old people (last
6 months of their lives, health care is completely paid for by taxes). We
have an act that forces hospitals to treat a patient with a life threatening
emergency, and then another act to protect them from having their credit
damaged if they can't afford to pay it back. We then have Medicaid... it's
not great.. but it is there.. and it does work. We have a prescription drug
plan....
I would FULLY support "increasing" medicare with more funding and better
organization. But a health care plan for all is pure socialism.. and I
simply do not support it. A man who has the means to take care of himself
(no dabilitating traits) SHOULD... take care of himself.
Todd
Jim McKay
>Andreas Prucha wrote:
>
>> > Oooh, like Sweden? Who's lost all of their major manufacturing...
>> > Saab and Volvo to American companies?
>>
>> Hmm, but AFAIK the unemployment rate of Sweden has been quite low.
>
>Not in the nineties, but it seems to be now (4%, lower than the US).
>
>But Todd is clueless again. The manufacturing was not lost, it just
>changed owner, just like Chrysler changed owner. <g>
ouch!
--
Regards:
Jim McKay
I can remember the first time I had to go to sleep. Mom said,
"Steven, time to go to sleep." I said, "But I don't know how."
She said, "It's real easy. Just go down to the end of tired and
hang a left." So I went down to the end of tired, and just out
of curiosity I hung a right. My mother was there, and she
said "I thought I told you to go to sleep."
-- Steven Wright
Posted with XanaNews: Ver: 1.16.3.1
--
Todd Super Bassist
> > 75% of the cost of the health care plan will be paid for by Federal
> > Taxes.
>
> Yes, so?
>
> See it as an investment in the health of America. Healthy people, not
> afraid of falling ill, feel better and achieve more.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis
Do you think that you should have to pay for a fat guy's triple-heart bypass
surgery??? Even though the doctor has told him time and time again that.. if
he doesn't lose weight, he'll have a heart attack?
I certainly don't....
I believe people need to be able to manage themselves.
What I WOULD support is more education geared towards healthy eating, and
teaching people how to take care of themselves. I have no problem with
Federal funding of the school system.. or even increasing it. It's currently
being funded by Property taxes... wealthy schools stay wealthy, and pooor
schools stay poor. I would change this if I was in charge... I would force
the state to give the same amount of money, per each student that the school
registeres. Wealthy schools would pretty much stay the same, and poor
schools would benefit greatly.
However... if you're an able bodied person.. I have NO business paying for
your health care bills...
Not my problem.
Todd
Thomas J. Theobald
"Todd Super Bassist" <todd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:418b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> There will always be exceptions... you will always have a family that hit
on
> hard times, and is starving in the streets. That's VERY unfortunate. But
in
> the United States of America.. we do NOT support passing legislation that
> punishes 99% of the country at the expense of 1% of the country.
I'm sorry, Todd, but exactly what do you think the Bush "tax cuts" have been
doing?
Have you been paying attention at all these last few years?
T
me @kilroywuzhere Stephan
"Matt Jacobs" <no...@noyb.com> wrote in message
news:c6hno0tg4pkn1ajvc...@4ax.com...
> "Stephan" <ask me @ kilroy wuz here> wrote:
>
> >"Captain Jake" <john...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:418b95bd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >> "Stephan" <ask me @ kilroy wuz here> wrote in message
> >> news:418b8763$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...> >> > news:418b808e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >> > > Do you honestly think that a moderate
> >> > > Democrat, who has a wife, and two kids.. who might even go to
church,
> >> has
> >> > a
> >> > > regular desk job... do you really think that he's going to look at
> >> > "p-Diddy"
> >> > > with admiration and accept his advice??
> >> >
> >> > You're not black, are you?
> >>
> >> You think blacks expect that a moderate democrat who has a wife, two
kids,
> >> goes to church and has a desk job would listen with rapt attention to
> >> p-diddy?
> >
> >can you say target audience?
>
> And audience that doesn't vote no matter what.
hey laughing boy, go check the stats. :-b
Todd Super Bassist
> that?
Well, the brain functions on chemicals.. neural transmitters and other
things I don't fully understand.
There's a "standard level" of chemicals more or less that people survive on.
I can't really explain it, because I don't fully understand it.
When someone says that they have a chemical imbalance, it means that the
body is not properly producing the right amount of chemicals... these
chemicals are what keeps a person sane... (as we as a collective world
community perceive to be sane). A chemical imbalance can be too much of one
chemical, or too little of another chemical.
This can either cause extreme highs, or extreme lows....
We really know very little about the brain (when compared to what we KNOW
that what we don't know, and what we actually do know).
ADHD - Attention Deficit Disorder and Hyperactivity.. though WIDELY
mis-diagnosed in the 80s.. it is a chemical imbalance. Bi-Polar disorder is
also a chemical imbalance. There are many stages of Mania as well..
I hadn't really hung out with my cousin for a long time, and then his
parents were kicking him out of the house. I just assumed maybe he was
having a difficult time, so I said he could stay with us. He flew down to
Florida and stayed with us for about a month. I told him he had to get an
apartment after a month (which was the agreement). My fiancee got him a job
at the store she worked at, and everything was fine... then just out of the
blue one day, he snapped (doctors don't really know what causes it)... his
whole demeanor changed... his personality changed, he was using words he had
never bothered to use before.. even my dog wouldn't go near him anymore...
It's actually quite scary to see someone you know go completely insane...
> > True, but those people usually suffer temporary insanity... because of
> > an event that drove them to madness either through losing a long-time
> > job, a divorce, catching their significant other cheating.. etc.. but
> > it is only temporary. Those who live on the street are there because
> > of a genetic chemical imbalance.
>
> May be. Or just a row of really bad events which caused drug abuse. Once
> on it it's probably very difficult to live a normal live.
Very difficult... but no amount of socialism can correct that. A person has
to WANT help, before they'll take help.
> > THAT.. right there is what is so unbelievably frustrating.... He'll be
> > perfectly fine... and then go insane (could be sparked by anything..
> > and lasts for a long time).
>
> No, I mean, what does he think about taking medication during this time?
He doesn't want to take it because it makes him feel weak.... he doesn't
like the idea that he has a problem and still hasn't fully accepted the fact
that he has a problem. To him, taking medication for his szchitophrenia is
accepting the fact that he has a problem.. and that he's giving in. He
insists that he can conquer this by himself... which unfortunately is
impossible because when he IS going through a manic or insane state.. he
literally has no idea... he still perceives all of his actions to be
normal... but the chemical in his brain that tells him when he's doing
something wrong... simply doesn't work. A manic person ends up functioning
more on instincts than anything else.. which is why their sex drive
increases... and they become totally chaotic.
> > When his next manic stage hits... he literally has NO idea that he's
> > insane... it's almost like a completely different personality. He
> > truely believes that "HE" is normal, and that everyone else just
> > simply doesn't understand him. He'll do crazy things like run around
> > naked, or have sex with whoever shows interest (like.. he'll knock on
> > a neighbors door, naked, and ask the lady at the door if she wants to
> > have sex with him.... believe it or not, sometimes it works!).
>
> Hmm, now I understand why he refuses treatment <g>
Dude, he had sex with a woman who I'd swear was nearly 60...
Todd
Todd Super Bassist
> > the United States of America.. we do NOT support passing legislation
that
> > punishes 99% of the country at the expense of 1% of the country.
>
> I'm sorry, Todd, but exactly what do you think the Bush "tax cuts" have
been
> doing?
>
> Have you been paying attention at all these last few years?
>
> T
Have you?
I certainly don't make up part of the 1% of the population, and I benefitted
greatly from the Tax cuts.
Todd