Let's rescue together Kylix
haword
to write IDE RAD! If all those will undertake this business who wishes to
program again on Kylix for us all will turn out! I already searched for some
information on the Internet. Possibility is if it to not make to one and if
people dear at this forum will join this! What for us is? Is OpenSource the
compiler and is or it will be fast FreeCLX! Means only it are necessary
wanting to engage people in it! Is Delphi EControl Form Designer components,
http:// www.econtrol.ru/download_e.html which can work almost as Borland IDE
RAD! It is possible on its basis and it is possible to write also that or
similar then we will have the RAD IDE and we shall not depend from Borland!
Daniel Wildt
based on FreePascal compiler. And it works!
You can check out some weblinks in our wiki.
http://www.dug-rs.org/wiki/index.php/DUGRSWiki:Links#Lazarus.FreePascal
The main weblink about Lazarus is this one:
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
Daniel Wildt
Delphi Users Group from Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil.
http://www.dug-rs.org
haword
> based on FreePascal compiler. And it works!
Very more bugs, use only GTK widgets, not support BPL package, not support
pakage for inslall components, very big size execute files, .....
Marco van de Voort
>> But for this purpose you have Lazarus! It works on Windows OS and Linux,
>> based on FreePascal compiler. And it works!
>
> Very more bugs,
Fixing them is easier than starting over. The short time needed to get a
beta CrossFPC out of the door proves more or less that with some work
invested, one can come far very quickly.
A small crowd of serious users that occasionally submit a patch can really
accelerate Lazarus development I think.
> use only GTK widgets,
There is no QT port, since nobody is interested in it (if sb really was
interested, they would have started a QT port).
> not support BPL package, not support
> package for inslall components,
These two are the same problem. Packages, and some serious attention to
dynamic linking are the major feat scheduled for the next major version, but
this can easily take another year.
> very big size execute files, .....
FPC binaries are often considered big, however this typically has to do
with not removing debug info.
Avg FPC code is a very small percentage (2-5%) larger than delphi code. LCL
_code is_ more bulky than CLX, but only about 25-50% (an avg GUI app is +/-
_800k-1MB, quickly increasing to +/- 1.4-1.5MB. At that point most of the
_LCL is linked in and further growth is slow. I don't know about Kylix, but
for D6 this is about 400-500kb for minimal app, and the second limit is at
about 900-1100kB)
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
> pakage for inslall components, very big size execute files, .....
This just means that althought it works, it needs more people working on it.
Lazarus is still far from Delphi 5, but is very good for Linux where there
are very few RAD tools. The big executables is very bad =(
Oh, and Lazarus does have components, and a beliave it does convert BPL to
it´s own components, althought I haven´t used it for some time now.
About the GTK, they need people to make it compatible with xwWidgets and QT.
Felipe
haword
> interested, they would have started a QT port).
Very much many would like this port, but not at all so much knowledge that
it to carry out!
>> not support BPL package, not support
>> package for inslall components,
>
> These two are the same problem. Packages, and some serious attention to
> dynamic linking are the major feat scheduled for the next major version,
> but
> this can easily take another year.
Very for a long time to wait, can be and we shall not wait! BPL and packages
of components different things:)
BPL as it is possible to use as plug-ins!
>> very big size execute files, .....
>
> FPC binaries are often considered big, however this typically has to do
> with not removing debug info.
>
> Avg FPC code is a very small percentage (2-5%) larger than delphi code.
> LCL
> _code is_ more bulky than CLX, but only about 25-50% (an avg GUI app is
> +/-
> _800k-1MB, quickly increasing to +/- 1.4-1.5MB. At that point most of the
> _LCL is linked in and further growth is slow. I don't know about Kylix,
> but
> for D6 this is about 400-500kb for minimal app, and the second limit is at
> about 900-1100kB)
>
Kylix programm with debug info have size ~500-600 kbyte + QT library ~7
Mbyte and this working on all system where is XOrg or XFree,
Lazarus program + GTK will have the greater size
Marco van de Voort
> Oh, and Lazarus does have components, and a beliave it does convert BPL to
> it´s own components, althought I haven´t used it for some time now.
It has (design time) components, but installs these by recompiling the
lazarus IDE, not by dynamically loading them.
> About the GTK, they need people to make it compatible with xwWidgets and QT.
And, IMHO more important, Aqua/Carbon and improve GTK2.
Marco van de Voort
>> There is no QT port, since nobody is interested in it (if sb really was
>> interested, they would have started a QT port).
>
> Very much many would like this port, but not at all so much knowledge that
> it to carry out!
This is a problem for any solution one chooses, including ones based on the
Kylix compiler. They all need knowledge and time. The only one that can save
you without community work (and can get something ready faster than
other solutions due to their hordes of fulltime programmers) is Borland.
>> These two are the same problem. Packages, and some serious attention to
>> dynamic linking are the major feat scheduled for the next major version,
>> but
>> this can easily take another year.
>
> Very for a long time to wait, can be and we shall not wait! BPL and packages
> of components different things:)
No, not designtime components, these are based on packages afaik
>> but
>> for D6 this is about 400-500kb for minimal app, and the second limit is at
>> about 900-1100kB)
>>
> Kylix programm with debug info have size ~500-600 kbyte + QT library ~7
> Mbyte and this working on all system where is XOrg or XFree,
If you set environment variables, patch libraries etc.
Btw I've never achieved such sizes with modern Delphi versions. Afaik a
normal stripped Kylix GUI program (which is not trivial) is slightly larger
than 1 MB? A trivial CLX app 600kb+ ? Or has it improved since K1 times?
> Lazarus program + GTK will have the greater size
Dwarf debug support should save some space. But better is to simply ship
stripped binaries, or use an installer. (and have bins compressed).
Size on HD doesn't matter anymore nowadays. Specially if you have a KDE using
distro. (which is not exactly lightweight).
haword
> normal stripped Kylix GUI program (which is not trivial) is slightly
> larger
> than 1 MB? A trivial CLX app 600kb+ ? Or has it improved since K1 times?
Yes! Not the big programm have size ~800 kb
> Dwarf debug support should save some space. But better is to simply ship
> stripped binaries, or use an installer. (and have bins compressed).
> Size on HD doesn't matter anymore nowadays. Specially if you have a KDE
> using
> distro. (which is not exactly lightweight).
Load installation my programm use modem for connect internet > 10-15 Mbyte
long time
Marco van de Voort
>> stripped binaries, or use an installer. (and have bins compressed).
>> Size on HD doesn't matter anymore nowadays. Specially if you have a KDE
>> using
>> distro. (which is not exactly lightweight).
>
> Load installation my programm use modem for connect internet > 10-15 Mbyte
> long time
Who transfers files uncompressed via a modem line?
Debug info compiles very well, so it shouldn't matter much.