Delphi Product Manager questioned
Brian Twinings
Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is a big mistake?
Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better than others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
Does this just mean that DevCo = Borland II ?
What is the next? Rudy Velthuis as Delphi Developer Relations?
-
David Clegg
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better
> than others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
I am not going to comment on the merits of either Dennis or Eric, as
they both seem like capable and intelligent individuals. Instead I'll
outline some of the reasons I'm so excited about Nick's selection (in
no particular order).
1) He is passionate about Delphi. Scratch that, he is *extremely*
passionate about Delphi. Probably more so than anyone I know. He'll
always defend Delphi's role to the death, even in situations where
Delphi might not necessarily be the most obvious choice.
2) He has innovative ideas. He was often outspoken about the way that
Borland was handling Delphi, and when doing so it was always very
constructively done with innovative and creative solutions to the areas
being criticised.
3) He thinks like a developer. He knows how us in the trenches are
using Delphi, and the problems we may currently face when doing so,
including technological or legal obstacles which may be in the way of
using it to its full potential.
4) He thinks like a manager. While he is very passionate about
advancing Delphi in as many ways as possible, he always appears to be
mindful of only championing ideas that make sound business sense rather
than those that may only have a limited market or ROI.
5) He stands by his convictions. When Nick believes in something, he
will defend that position with vigour and enthusiasm. But when doing
so, he is always open to seeing a different viewpoint, if a well
reasoned argument can be presented to him.
> Does this just mean that DevCo = Borland II ?
Not by a long shot, IMHO.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"Remember that postcard Grandpa sent us from Florida of that Alligator
biting that woman's bottom? That's right, we all thought it was
hilarious. But, it turns out we were wrong. That alligator was sexually
harassing that woman." - Homer Simpson
![Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]'s profile photo](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/default-user=s40-c)
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
> passionate about Delphi.
Are we talking "alone in a hotel room with a Delphi box and syrup"? :-)
>> Does this just mean that DevCo = Borland II ?
>
> Not by a long shot, IMHO.
I am hoping more like "Borland III". Where today = "Borland II" and
"Borland I" was the innovative company of old.
Don Strenczewilk
anything, but by mentioning those two, there appears to be an ulterior
motive for your question.. Could it have anything to do with 64bit
processors? If Nick had asked your question, there would be no question.
Whether you agree or disagree, you generally know where he stands.
"Brian Twinings" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:449288b3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
> a big mistake?
Well I don't suppose anyone here can predict the future so answers will be a
matter of opinion, some for and some against. The thing that matters is
that he has accepted the role and we all (you included) are hoping he will
do a good job.
SiegfriedN
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is a big mistake?
>
There are others who have fears that Devco would stop development on a
native Delphi compiler. Nick has given his assurance that this is going
to be his top priority and I trust him. I am sure Eric and Denis are
great guys, but Nick has at least been a TeamB member for many many
years and for that reason alone is the better choice IMO.
See Nick's assurance below.. (Sorry the link is not yet available on
Google) Find the 'New Delphi Product Manager' Topic from a few days ago
in this newsgroup read Nick's reply to SiegfriedN (2006-06-15 15h51)
Siegs
-----
>> My first wish is that you help push Delphi to not only be a .Net dev
>> tool.
<NICK QUOTE>
..
I can assure you that if I have anything to say about it (and, well, I
do!), native development will be a top priority. I'll have to figure
out why people think anything else. ;-)
..
</NICK QUOTE>
SiegfriedN
Ingvar Nilsen
> Instead I'll outline some of the reasons I'm so excited about
> Nick's selection
David, do you know him personally? Have you met?
Talking for myself, I only know Nick from the newsgroups.
There are a lot of qualifications needed for such a position that are
impossible to value from blogs and newsgroups activities. So here I
trust those who have hired him.
From blogs and newsgroups I know Nick has the gift of writing very
well, when you start reading, you continue to read. And he definitely
is up to par technically seen.
OTOH, I believe some trips to other countries and cultures would not do
any harm :-)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
http://www.ingvarius.com
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
449288b3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is
a big mistake?
I think you had better give him time to switch on his computer before you
start throwing bricks at the man.
IMO, what is needed for a Product Manager is someone who will take on board
input from *all* directions and not just the vocal minority in these
newsgroups.
Believe it or not, there are thousands of Delphi developers, especially in
big corporates who haven't even heard of these groups; and I'm certain their
managers would never set foot in here.
There are many different calls for what people want Delphi to do. If certain
people had their way, we would see a very narrowly focused product that
would only sell to the vocal minorities and that would soon fall out of
favour with the really big money spenders.
Don't forget, unless you are a buyer for a *large* corporate, your one or
two copies of Delphi every one or two years would not keep DevCo in tea and
biscuits for very long.
Whatever else you think of Nick from his inputs into this group, bear in
mind that he is no longer "just another developer", he has to take hold of
the reigns of DevCo's flagship product and make it into a *high-selling*
*up-to-date* product that will keep our favourite IDE provider going for
years to come.
And, no I am not being sycophantic, I just believe in "letting the dog see
the rabbit" before shooting it.
Nick, rabbits, go get 'em !!! :-)
Joanna
--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Dennis Landi
Brian,
Far be it from me to try to dissuade you from discussing anything you
want (I hate it when people do that to me!).
However, I don't think the choice of Nick Hodges, overall, is a poor
choice. Not at all, of a small cadre of possible excellent candidates
(there aren't many), Nick is definitely in that number.
Is he by any means perfect? Nope. I'm certainly not perfect. (Ok, I'm
willing to concede that Eric Grange *might* be perfect, but will leave
that debate for some other time). But instead of ducking your
question, I'll just say that I will be travelling abroad a lot over the
next 2 years; I am pretty much cemented in the Washington DC area for
the next 20 years (so can't move to Scotts Valley), I doubt I would
accept the "corporate culture" of Borland etc. etc. In a nutshell, I'm
not available for the job. And there is the minor detail that I have
never been asked by Borland to do anything....
Moving on.
Nick has moved to Scotts Valley. Nick has all the requisite
qualifications for the job. Really. I think we have very good idea of
Nick's biases from Day One. I would characterize these set of biases as
an agenda. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, if the agenda is
known, and in this case I think it is. Nick has written way too much
about all things Delphi for anyone to pretend otherwise.
So let's de-personalize this thread for a second.
The new Delphi Product Manager will have a real puzzle on his hands.
Nick will have no choice but to grow into the job; but, I see no reason
why he won't or can't.
However, Brian, you can keep the Delphi Product Manager and DevCo as a
whole, accountable. Be vocal. Criticize. Don't be afraid to speak
your mind. If anybody tries to stop you from simply discussing your
ideas. Fight them.
Remember, you can always just leave and go use some other development
framework fraught with far less peril. That fact that you are here,
still caring about Delphi says a lot. DevCo should never take your
presence for granted...
-d
Mark A. Andrews
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is a big mistake?
>
An interesting question.
I've not always agree with Nick and have at times found him to be
arrogant and dismissive of the concerns of others IN THIS NEWSGROUP. I
don't know him personally and I'm sure that when judging me by my
responses IN THIS NEWSGROUP, many of you may have the same opinion of me.
However, there is one significant, intangible result of his hiring as
Delphi Product Manager; the powers in charge of Devco (not Borland)
realize the importance of Delphi's user community. This bodes well in
that it implies the new company knows it customer base.
Whether Nick makes a good product manager for Delphi is yet to be seen.
The significance is in the hiring one of the Delphi community for this
position as opposed to a non-committed, un-knowledgeable, un-invested
"outsider" (which seems to be the conventional in companies these days).
So, is the hiring of Nick a mistake? Time will tell. However, hiring a
Delphi community member will NEVER be a mistake. I'm more and more
impressed by the management team of the new Devco.
BTW, Congratulations Nick. I haven't always agree with your positions,
but Devco could have done MUCH, MUCH worse.... :-)
Mark
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product
> manager is a big mistake?
No, it's not just you. I'm sure there are others. I can't count myself
amongst your number, however.
I also suspect that, amongst people with some knowledge of Nick, his
experience, and his ideas for DevCo, you're in a tiny minority. Anyone
who has ever felt that Borland has lost touch with the "small
developer" should be standing on their seat and cheering, in particular.
> Does this just mean that DevCo = Borland II ?
Having seen both from the inside, I can't imagine what would justify
this statement. Nick is quite far from the POV of the Borland board.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Everything You Need to Know About InterBase Character Sets:
http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/403.aspx
Dennis Landi
> And, no I am not being sycophantic, I just believe in "letting the dog see
> the rabbit" before shooting it.
>
> Nick, rabbits, go get 'em !!! :-)
>
I really love this post.
-d
Dennis Landi
> ... However, hiring a
> Delphi community member will NEVER be a mistake.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
-d
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
> Delphi Product Manager; the powers in charge of Devco (not Borland)
> realize the importance of Delphi's user community. This bodes well in that
> it implies the new company knows it customer base.
I think this sums up my opinion exactly!
> So, is the hiring of Nick a mistake? Time will tell. However, hiring a
> Delphi community member will NEVER be a mistake. I'm more and more
> impressed by the management team of the new Devco.
Me too!
Bruce McGee
> David Clegg wrote:
>
> > Instead I'll outline some of the reasons I'm so excited about
> > Nick's selection
>
> David, do you know him personally? Have you met?
I know Nick just well enough to agree with David's opinion. Let me add
that he's a pretty personable dude to boot. I haven't worked with him
(yet), so I my high opinion of his technical ability is based on seeing
him speak at conferences, his blog entries, his news group posts
(though not necessarily the non-tech ones :) and comments from people
who *have* worked with him. And it doesn't hurt that we share some
opinions on Delphi and DevCo.
I can't think of a better person for the position.
Nick,
Don't let it go to your head. Get back to work and don't be messing
around in the VCL to flag WITH as deprecated. :)
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Bruce McGee
>
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product
> manager is a big mistake?
What makes you think this?
Randy Magruder
>
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product
> manager is a big mistake?
No, it's just you.
Anyone who really wants a bright future for Delphi HAS to be excited
that Nick has been put in the position he has.
Randy
--
Serge Dosyukov (Dragon Soft)
True FUD
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is
> a big mistake?
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better than
> others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
> What is the next? Rudy Velthuis as Delphi Developer Relations?
I didn't see him in the while. And being offten controversed by him in the
past I still do not see how you can be so personal in your oppinions.
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
All the great TeamB service you've come to expect plus (New!)
Irish Tin Whistle tips: http://learningtowhistle.blogspot.com
Robert Giesecke
>
> Nick,
> Don't let it go to your head. Get back to work and don't be messing
> around in the VCL to flag WITH as deprecated. :)
>
Hehe, this is the first thing, I thought Nick would do on his first day. *g*
The world would be a much nicer place without "with". ;-)
Dan Miser
I'd rather give the keys to the Delphi kingdom to someone who has been
proactive, truthful, and helpful as opposed to someone who just takes pot
shots at people on a newsgroup (and I'm not talking about the people you
mentioned in your post, BTW).
Not to mention, I can't think of a single individual on this planet who
would be MORE qualified for this position than Nick.
--
Dan Miser
http://www.distribucon.com
"Brian Twinings" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:449288b3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Tom Corey
<something or other fairly negative>
I'm sorry, I can't keep track any more. Whose sock puppet are you?
zj
"Joanna Carter [TeamB]" <joa...@not.for.spam> wrote in message
news:4492a111$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> "Brian Twinings" <nos...@nospam.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 449288b3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
<cut>
> IMO, what is needed for a Product Manager is someone who will take on
> board
> input from *all* directions and not just the vocal minority in these
> newsgroups
Do you have any prove that it is a vocal minority not the opposite
(majority) ?
<cut>
> Don't forget, unless you are a buyer for a *large* corporate, your one or
> two copies of Delphi every one or two years would not keep DevCo in tea
> and
> biscuits for very long.
<cut>
The kind of thinking above, is what I hope we wont see among
new DevCo guys. It really scares me and I can only hope, that those
small "unimportant" 2-5 people shop companies are the real
chance for DevCo to become successful. I really doubt DevCo
will get a big number of <new> corporate contracts.
On the other hand I believe that if Delphi is back to its roots
they may convince an army of people still using good old
Delphi 5-7 to buy an upgrade.
> Believe it or not, there are thousands of Delphi developers, especially in
> big corporates who haven't even heard of these groups; and I'm certain
> their
> managers would never set foot in here.
Just another corporate centered view.
As a side note, those "armies" of corporate developers you believe in
are IMO out of range of DevCo. Borland lost the battle. Majority of
corporate managers in the .NET era will chose VS not the BDS
for many both technical but also political reasons.
So, (IMHO) the only chance for DevCo to rebuild the old Borland
empire is to go back to Borland roots and build the tools which
every single developer will love to use for his/her own small business
development. When they (DevCo) reach that goal there is a chance
of Delphi making its way back to corporate world. DevCo is and
will be a much smaller company than Microsoft is (at least for a foreseeable
future).
The only way, the corporate world will risk to go back to Borland tooling
is to make those tools not only superior to what Microsoft offers, but what
is more
important is to make them different. Why is difference so important? I
think,
if both (DevCo BDS and VS) are pretty much the same, then the choice is very
obvious - buy VS because the company behind is simply much more stable.
So, there must be differentiating factors, both technical along with some
others.
For example responsiveness to reported product problems, stability of
product lines, investing in developers' communities and education of young
developers (huge discount for students, free copies for universities), etc.
etc.
Exactly those activities that Borland was lacking these last few years.
As for the technical differentiators, I believe playing the catch up game
against
thousands of Microsoft developers extending .NET and by a hundred or two
hundred
of DevCo guys is rather hopeless situation for DevCo. Maybe DevCo
should bet their future on fast and slick native code and the VCL based
platform
which many of us Delphi developers know, respect and are proud of.
The .Net strategy can be as follows: "try to stay current with those
technologies like ASP .NET which are important to Delphi developers, and do
whatever can be done with limited resources with the rest of the .NET
platform."
Regards,
Zenon
Serge Dosyukov (Dragon Soft)
Brian Moelk
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product
> manager is a big mistake?
I think Nick is a good choice as the Delphi Product Manager. I hope
that you'll give him a chance to prove you wrong.
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better
> than others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
It was a decision made by the DevCo team. I imagine people like Michael
Swindell and Allen Bauer had a role in getting Nick onboard. I trust
they are pleased with their decision. I can respect that.
--
Brian Moelk
Brain Endeavor LLC
bmo...@NObrainSPAMendeavorFOR.MEcom
Captain Jake
> a big mistake?
>
> others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
He actually understands economics for one thing.
Brian Moelk
> However, there is one significant, intangible result of his hiring as
> Delphi Product Manager; the powers in charge of Devco (not Borland)
> realize the importance of Delphi's user community. This bodes well in
> that it implies the new company knows it customer base.
+1
Bryce K. Nielsen
> *g*
> The world would be a much nicer place without "with". ;-)
>
What?!? Oh I sense a flame war...
As I'm working in C#, I can't tell you how often I miss my WITH clauses :P
-BKN
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
And I can't tell you how better off your code is for lacking them ;-)
Allen Bauer
> a big mistake?
>
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better than
> others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
>
>
We would not have pursued Nick had we felt he was not capable or qualified
for the position. Judging someone based solely on their presense on the
newsgroups is unfair and very narrow. The fact of the matter is that Nick
is highly respected by every member of the BDS team. Not to take anything
away from Dennis or Eric, I think they are both highly respected among this
community.
Nick has only been on the job for a few days and making judgements on his
qualifications (Do you know Nick personally?) this early is a little odd....
For the record, Michael Swindell (the hiring manager) and myself have gone
into this fully aware of what we're getting into. You can't hire such a
high-profile individual from the community without there being *some*
concern. I won't speak for Nick as I feel he's very capable of that task
;-), but I'm certain Nick is going to take this position and give it 110%.
--
Allen Bauer
DevCo Chief Scientist
Borland^H^H^H^H^H^H^HDevCo Software Corporation.
http://blogs.borland.com/abauer
David Farrell-Garcia
>
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product
> manager is a big mistake?
Probably just you.
>
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better
> than others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
No comment necessary.
Allen Bauer
> Swindell and Allen Bauer had a role in getting Nick onboard. I trust
> they are pleased with their decision. I can respect that.
Uh.. I'd say we had everything to do with bringing Nick on board. Michael
and I have discussed this at length long before we ever contacted Nick.
We've also known Nick for many years. Lot's of BorCon's and TeamB meetings
over the years allows one to get very acquainted with people.
For the record, I was recruited out of TeamB by Chuck Jazdzewski after
attending a TeamB picnic. Chuck and I talked for quite a while during the
event and hit it off right away. Within the next four-five months I was
moving my family to California... and the rest, shall we say, is history
;-).
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> OTOH, I believe some trips to other countries and cultures would not
> do any harm :-)
Let's see, I've lived in Greece, Korea, and Japan. I've been to
Australia, the Middle East, Africa, Phillipines, and Singapore, and all
over Europe.
Anywhere else I need to get to? I'd love to go to Brazil. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - DevCo
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nickblog
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
>
> There are others who have fears that Devco would stop development on
> a native Delphi compiler.
Once again let me reiterate that I think this would be a colossal
mistake.
The thing I don't understand is where this notion comes from. Any
ideas about what we can to do crush, squash, and otherwise rid the
world of it?
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> I can only hope, that those
> small "unimportant" 2-5 people shop companies are the real
> chance for DevCo to become successful.
Check out the sub-title of my blog.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - DevCo
Read my Blog -- http://blogs.borland.com/nickhodges
David Farrell-Garcia
1. I think your question is inheritenly ridiculous.
2. How would you possibly know what process Borland went through to
hire Nick? You can be sure that they considered all of his
qualifications. Eric and Dennis might very well both be highly
qualified but so what? I sure there are many others who could
competently fill the post, as well but only one gets the job.
Demonstrating his knowledge of Delphi, using a level head in his
responses during his Team B role, being a nice guy and beiing in the
right place at the right time, could all have been factors. Lets be
happy for him, let him do his job and not second-guess.
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
> Any ideas about what we can to do crush, squash, and otherwise rid the
> world of it?
Release a 64-bit native compiler? <g>
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
John Wester [Group W]
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>
> > OTOH, I believe some trips to other countries and cultures would not
> > do any harm :-)
>
> Let's see, I've lived in Greece, Korea, and Japan. I've been to
> Australia, the Middle East, Africa, Phillipines, and Singapore, and
> all over Europe.
>
> Anywhere else I need to get to? I'd love to go to Brazil. ;-)
Canada. Teach you how to play hockey. (If there's one thing hockey
teaches you is to "keep your head up"!)
--
John Wester
- Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Rick Carter
>For the record, I was recruited out of TeamB by Chuck Jazdzewski after
>attending a TeamB picnic.
So he's the one to blame! I guess that explains why he had to run out
and join some other software company. <g,d&r>
Just kidding, Allen! :)
Rick Carter
cart...@despammed.com
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> Canada. Teach you how to play hockey. (If there's one thing hockey
> teaches you is to "keep your head up"!)
I think Nick has a pretty solid Canadian connection already. :)
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can
stand by itself." - Thomas Jefferson
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> Nick is quite far from the POV of the Borland board.
Nice understatement. <g>
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are
injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say
there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks
my leg." - Thomas Jefferson
J. Lee
IMO, this notion comes from the realization that Borland/DevCo's gamble
on the .NET initiative has received the lion's share of resource
devotion for the past several years. That sometimes makes old school
Delphi faithful (native/Win32ers) feel abandoned. I'm sure many feel
that if those resources were used to improve Delphi, as it existed from
V1 through V7, it would be a much better product.
I don't necessesarily agree with the notion, but am just stating what I
have observed. Personally, the only thing I don't like about the .NET
integration is the lag time between .NET releases and associated Delphi
releases--it kind of takes the wind out of the sail.
Ideas about how to crush, squash, etc.:
improve the VCL, I mean *really* improve it
rock-solid IDE
rock-solid help system
Regards,
Jason Lee
John Kaster (Borland)
> Canada. Teach you how to play hockey.
Nick is moving here from Minnesota.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
If it's not here, it's not happening: http://ec.borland.com
Andrea Raimondi
> The thing I don't understand is where this notion comes from. Any
> ideas about what we can to do crush, squash, and otherwise rid the
> world of it?
Imho, 3 things, well, 2 actually :D
1) Deliver a help update to make it useable. By "useable" I mean:
A) That it integrates all third-party help sources in an *easy* way
B) Working for all components it's supposed to work with
C) Does show what you're really looking for(example: if you're in
Delphi Win32, restrict the filter to that automatically)
2) A native programming initiative. For example, some programming
contest as "old" Borland was used to do, focusing on native
code improvment, a-là "Fast Code"(maybe a bit broader in target).
These two things alone, methinks, would inject a fair share of
optimism and would greatly reduce stomachaches that are now
floating in the community.
Last, I don't want to harass you but... knock knock :D
Cheers,
Andrew
John Kaster (Borland)
> IMO, this notion comes from the realization that Borland/DevCo's
> gamble on the .NET initiative has received the lion's share of
> resource devotion for the past several years.
This is a misinformed realization.
We have tons of new features in the IDE, and significant new work in
the VCL, that benefits our Win32 customers directly.
On the tours I've been on since we launched BDS 2006, at least 80% of
my time has been spent showing features DIRECTLY USABLE by our Win32
customers.
This is a case of people focusing too much on something they may not
want yet, and thinking that nothing else is being done on the product
without really looking and seeing what's there.
That said, it's clear to me we need to provide more marketing related
material that reinforces that Delphi is the best *Windows* development
tool in the world, regardless of whether you're using the Windows
managed API (.NET) or native (Win32).
John Wester [Group W]
> John Wester [Group W] wrote:
>
> > Canada. Teach you how to play hockey.
>
> Nick is moving here from Minnesota.
Yeah, but the "Wild"? And he's going to the Shark Tank. <shudders>
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> Canada. Teach you how to play hockey. (If there's one thing hockey
> teaches you is to "keep your head up"!)
Nope, been there a ton. My wife is from Saskatoon. ;-)
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> Release a 64-bit native compiler? <g>
Hehe, yeah, I guess that would do it, eh? ;-)
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> John Wester [Group W] wrote:
>
> > Canada. Teach you how to play hockey.
>
> Nick is moving here from Minnesota.
Ah, excellent; so he already knows how to surf.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Want to help make Delphi and InterBase better? Use QC!
http://qc.borland.com -- Vote for important issues
zj
"Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)" <nickh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4492e014$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> The thing I don't understand is where this notion comes from. Any
> ideas about what we can to do crush, squash, and otherwise rid the
> world of it?
>
> --
> Nick Hodges
> Delphi Product Manager - DevCo
> Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nickblog
I had a dream...
<dream begin>
Sometime in the future....
DevCo Completes Acquisition of Comeau Computing.
DevCo Corporation the global leader for native multiplatform development
computing, today announced the completion of its previously announced
acquisition of Comeau Computing, a global expert in C++ compiler
technology...
Nick Hodges the Delphi Product Manager - DevCo said, "we are very excited
with this acquisition which industry should recognize as a completion of
long term DevCo native compiler investment strategy we started in early 2007
when Edison Design Group was acquired."
<dream end>
;o)
Regards,
Zenon
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> The thing I don't understand is where this notion comes from.
People will always feel threatened by things they don't personally
need, because they'd personally prefer that the effort be put
exclusively into things which they do need. You could release the
world's greatest tool for 3D graphics and the people who don't 3D
graphics would shout, "Why is 3D getting all the attention?!? What
about us app server developers; we're important, too!"
And of course they *are* important, which is why they also got all
those cool features in the last release. It's funny to see people who
seem to sincerely want Delphi to be wildly successful simultaneously
want the product precisely tailored to their personal needs and nothing
more. Because the personal benefit to them would probably be greater if
they used a wildly successful IDE which did 75% of what they needed out
of the box than a moderately successful IDE which did 100% of what they
needed out of the box.
In many respects the art of sales and marketing is to make *all* of
your customers think they're the most important client in the world.
It's hard to do with a big product. But (and I know I'm preaching to
the choir, here) I think conversations are key. I think secrecy has
really hurt Borland in this respect.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
All the great TeamB service you've come to expect plus (New!)
Irish Tin Whistle tips: http://learningtowhistle.blogspot.com
Brian Moelk
> Uh.. I'd say we had everything to do with bringing Nick on board.
I didn't know any of the details, so I was playing it safe. ;) Thanks
for clarifying.
John Wester [Group W]
> John Wester [Group W] wrote:
>
> > Canada. Teach you how to play hockey. (If there's one thing hockey
> > teaches you is to "keep your head up"!)
>
> Nope, been there a ton. My wife is from Saskatoon. ;-)
Did not know that. That's cool
Lou
entity that it will be a better company. Keep in mind that Borland's
focus has been growing to be a player in the enterprise space with ALM
tools etc... I was able to attend on of the tour events with David I
and my impression is that the new DevCo will be all about developer
tools i.e. Delphi, JBuilder, C++Builder etc...
I am 100% behind Delphi and the new DevCo. My one hope is that when
the new Company eventually, if ever, decides to go public, that
developers, and users of the tools have access to the IPO shares. It
would be a dream if developers collectively owned 5 or 10 or even 15%
of the stock. Start saving your dolars, euros, pounds, reales, pesos,
rubels etc....
-Lou
Brian Twinings wrote:
> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager is a big mistake?
>
> Those who are cheering him - why do you think that Nick is better than others such as Dennis Landi, Eric Grange, etc.?
>
> Does this just mean that DevCo = Borland II ?
>
> What is the next? Rudy Velthuis as Delphi Developer Relations?
>
> -
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> In many respects the art of sales and marketing is to make all of
> your customers think they're the most important client in the world.
Great point.
So, *all* of you are very important to us, especially the .Net
developers and the Win32 developers. ;-)
John Herbster
> Is it just me ...
Since you asked, I think that it is just you and maybe a couple of others.
Nick Hodges has one big attribute going for him that other's also
qualified for the job itself might not have -- namely Nick can take
the flack tossed around on these pages without dodging.
--JohnH
Jeremy McGee [BassettData]
on (e.g.) whether a native 64-bit Delphi compiler arrives in a given
timeframe might be influenced by him, but the decisions won't necessarily be
taken by him. Rather, it'll be the team, balancing the revenues of such a
move against the development costs.
Even so, it's a brave step for DevCo to take a professional Delphi
consultant and developer for the role rather than hiring a product manager
from another software development firm.
I would be very surprised if the Borland (new-Borland-Cupertino, that is)
management would have been prepared to take such a gamble. For product
management is much more than triage on the feature list and evangelism:
there's pricing (eeuch!), forecasts (double-eeuch!!), market research,
campaigns, product launches, press, positioning, lifecycle management...
I'm sure none of these are beyond Nick, however, and I know that he has a
top-notch team around him who can help. And after all there hasn't been a
Delphi product manager for a little while now.
And Ingvar, yes, trips to other cultures and countries are part of a PM's
job. However, in the case of Delphi, it may be that it's the US market that
needs a good kick-start...
-- J
Eug. C.
> Nick is moving here from Minnesota.
Oh no we are going to loose Nick! who is going to do the Delphi user groups
in the Twin Cities?
zj
>
> So, *all* of you are very important to us, especially the .Net
> developers and the Win32 developers. ;-)
>
Waht about us Win64 developers ?
<g> ;o)
Regards,
Zenon
ckd
<jo...@borland.com> wrote:
>J. Lee wrote:
>
>> IMO, this notion comes from the realization that Borland/DevCo's
>> gamble on the .NET initiative has received the lion's share of
>> resource devotion for the past several years.
>
>This is a misinformed realization.
>
>We have tons of new features in the IDE, and significant new work in
>the VCL, that benefits our Win32 customers directly.
>
I don't think it's entirely misinformed. Of course what you say is
true - there has been some work to the IDE and VCL that benefit D32
customers. However, the 'devotion' that many want to see seems to be
related to D64, compiler optimization, and unicode - none of which
seem to be receiving much attention.
Michael Swindell pointed out the obvious when he stated that D64 being
on the roadmap showed that it was important to Borland - at least more
important than the myriad items not on the map. However:
- .net obviously has higher priority than D64;
- keeping up with new .net versions is going to require a lot of time.
If .net has a higher priority than native code generation, and there
is not likely to be a break in keeping up with the latest versions of
.net, it could be concluded that the likelihood of D64 rising to the
top of the priority list is slight.
I'm not arguing that native Delphi is dead, only that based on our
meager knowledge it could be reasonably concluded that the prospects
for it are poor.
-ckd
Brian Twinings
> Waht about us Win64 developers ?
You notice that in his reply he underestimated Win64 and Linux
developers, and placed .NET before Win32. What I said - Borland II.
Jan Derk
> People will always feel threatened by things they don't personally
> need, because they'd personally prefer that the effort be put
> exclusively into things which they do need. You could release the
> world's greatest tool for 3D graphics and the people who don't 3D
> graphics would shout, "Why is 3D getting all the attention?!?
Of course you're right, but I would get worried if D2007 comes out and
all my native coding is gone and all D2007 does is 3D graphics.
Jan Derk
Dan Miser
--
Dan Miser
http://www.distribucon.com
"Brian Twinings" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4492ff3c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jan Derk
> So, all of you are very important to us, especially the .Net
> developers and the Win32 developers. ;-)
.NET developers? Plural? You mean there is more than one guy using
Delphi for .NET? ;)
Jan Derk
Bryce K. Nielsen
> all my native coding is gone and all D2007 does is 3D graphics.
>
DirectDelphiX! That'd be awesome! Instead of all this lame pascal code, I
could be piecing rooms together and designing levels for my business users
to run through. Imagine, instead of clicking a button to process an order, I
have to find the order in a dark room, target it with my crosshairs and fire
until it's health is down to 0!
-BKN
Kyle A. Miller
> *Judging someone based solely on their presense on the
> newsgroups is unfair and very narrow.*
Whew! That's good for me. :-)
--
Kyle A. Miller
My Delphi news & views sandbox - http://blogs.millerdevelopment.info
Andrea Raimondi
> to run through. Imagine, instead of clicking a button to process an order, I
> have to find the order in a dark room, target it with my crosshairs and fire
> until it's health is down to 0!
LMAO!
> -BKN
Andrew
Bryce K. Nielsen
>> order, I have to find the order in a dark room, target it with my
>> crosshairs and fire until it's health is down to 0!
>
> LMAO!
>
On one project I was on, we were *this* close to requiring DirectX8. It was
a Warehouse application that was supposed to show which palette and shelves
certain inventory was on. The "old" project was just a edit box that showed
the name of the palette. We wanted to make it a 3D dispaly of the warehouse
that zoomed in to the exact location and show the exact palette. Couple that
with some RFID sensors, and you could show the items moving around in the
warehouse. How cool would that be ;-)
-BKN
Andrea Raimondi
> On one project I was on, we were *this* close to requiring DirectX8. It was
> a Warehouse application that was supposed to show which palette and shelves
> certain inventory was on. The "old" project was just a edit box that showed
When I was in Padova for a test period, I was working with
Mesh Radios. The ultimate project would have been to have the
*entire* location wireframed in 3D and then all the radio chips moving
around it.
> the name of the palette. We wanted to make it a 3D dispaly of the warehouse
> that zoomed in to the exact location and show the exact palette. Couple that
> with some RFID sensors, and you could show the items moving around in the
> warehouse. How cool would that be ;-)
However, in the end, I resigned from the test position for several
reasons. Never known if it's been actually been planned concretely.
> -BKN
Andrew
Rick Carter
>Nick Hodges has one big attribute going for him that others also
>qualified for the job itself might not have -- namely Nick can take
>the flack tossed around on these pages without dodging.
Got that right, John! As someone who just sent one of the latest volleys,
I'm still hopeful that Nick can deal gracefully with it. :)
Rick Carter
cart...@despammed.com
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> I'm not arguing that native Delphi is dead, only that based on our
> meager knowledge it could be reasonably concluded that the prospects
> for it are poor.
This is really, really, really, really off the mark. Native code
development is alive and well at DevCo. Repeat: The prospects for
native code development are not poor, they are good.
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> who is going to do the Delphi user groups in the Twin Cities?
Probably Christopher Hart.
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> You notice that in his reply he underestimated Win64 and Linux
> developers, and placed .NET before Win32. What I said - Borland II.
I think you are reading waaaaaaaaayyy too much into that.
Bryce K. Nielsen
> development is alive and well at DevCo. Repeat: The prospects for
> native code development are not poor, they are good.
>
The only reason for Delphi IMHO...
-BKN
Charles Appel
> Brian Twinings wrote:
>
>> You notice that in his reply he underestimated Win64 and Linux
>> developers, and placed .NET before Win32. What I said - Borland II.
>
> I think you are reading waaaaaaaaayyy too much into that.
Does the new job come with a bullet proof vest
and a kevlar helmet? ;^)
I'm glad you got the job Nick. Having you as Delphi
Product Manager makes me a lot more hopeful about
the future of Delphi.
Good luck (and don't forget to duck). ;^)
--
Charles Appel
http://charlesappel.home.mindspring.com/
Home of Chuck's Poker Libraries for Delphi,
Chuck's Video Poker and Chuck's Toys
Shawn Oster
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>
>> OTOH, I believe some trips to other countries and cultures would not
>> do any harm :-)
>
> Let's see, I've lived in Greece, Korea, and Japan. I've been to
> Australia, the Middle East, Africa, Phillipines, and Singapore, and all
> over Europe.
>
> Anywhere else I need to get to? I'd love to go to Brazil. ;-)
Was that living as a local or on a military base? Just curious as I've had
friends that lived in those exact places and they were all military people
that sadly tended to do more spreading of American culture than soaking up
of another culture.
Shawn Oster
ckd
<nickh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>ckd wrote:
>
>> I'm not arguing that native Delphi is dead, only that based on our
>> meager knowledge it could be reasonably concluded that the prospects
>> for it are poor.
>
>This is really, really, really, really off the mark. Native code
>development is alive and well at DevCo. Repeat: The prospects for
>native code development are not poor, they are good.
>
Note I'm not the one asking for a personal memo from you - I'm just
suggesting an answer to your question about 'where the notion comes
from.' Your statement above is far better than a stick in the eye but
it really doesn't effect notions about the demise of native code. The
only thing that will quell the notions is evidence of progress. IMO
that evidence has to be stronger than what Kaster threw out. Again,
I'm making no demands nor casting judgement, just offering a
perspective.
-ckd
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> IMO
> that evidence has to be stronger than what Kaster threw out.
The problem is that the evidence is there. Craig Stuntz posted a
rather long list of enhancements to the Win32 compiler. Win64 is on
the Roadmap.
What kind of "evidence" is needed here?
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> Was that living as a local or on a military base?
Korea and Japan were.
Shawn Oster
"J. Lee" <compu...@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:4492...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Nick,
>
> IMO, this notion comes from the realization that Borland/DevCo's gamble on
> the .NET initiative has received the lion's share of resource devotion for
> (native/Win32ers) feel abandoned. I'm sure many feel that if those
> resources were used to improve Delphi, as it existed from V1 through V7,
> it would be a much better product.
I don't quite get this notion. I do only Win32/VCL development in Delphi,
while I do my .NET development in Visual Studio '05 and enjoy both. With
every upgrade of the Delphi/BDS IDE I've felt there has been lots of great
upgrades and updates to the IDE itself and never have I felt that my Win32
development has been ignored/snubbed in favor of .NET.
I'm very pleased that Borland *didn't* spend each cycle adding a slew of
new/trendy features into the language itself. I'd much prefer time spent on
the IDE and bug fixes in the VCL than adding new features that may be used
by only 10% of developers.
I believe most developers are egocentric attention hogs that believe *their*
needs are the most important in the world and that if Borland isn't focusing
on the feature they want then they've been abandoned and that the sky (or at
least VCL/Win32) is falling. Even I've been guilty of it at times. We tend
to be solipists by nature and if we don't percieve it then of course it must
not exist.
Shawn Oster
Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)
> The only reason for Delphi IMHO...
You are far from the only one who thinks that way. We are all well
aware of that.
Bryce K. Nielsen
>
> You are far from the only one who thinks that way. We are all well
> aware of that.
>
Just to expound, I get this feeling not from me, but from the companies I
work with. All of them that decided to use DotNet jumped the Delphi ship.
They all figured, if we're going to use DotNet, might as well make it C#. So
the only thing they continue to use Delphi for is native code.
IMHO, it's a _great_ marketing angle, to be the best native IDE (very little
competition out there now for that claim). And if you can add Win64 to that
mix, all the better, especially if you're one of the first...
-BKN
David Clegg
> David, do you know him personally? Have you met?
>
> Talking for myself, I only know Nick from the newsgroups.
We've not met in person, only online. But I've seen his online
activities long enough to have formed what I believe to be a pretty
accurate picture of him.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"You never know when an old calendar might come in handy! Sure, it's
not 1985 right now, but who knows what tomorrow will bring?" - Homer
Simpson
J. Lee
Hmmmm...just "good"...not "excellent", or "astounding".....
I guess Delphi is dead <vbg>
Jason Lee
David Clegg
> Anywhere else I need to get to?
New Zealand, of course! If only to rid your head of all the rubbish the
Aussies may have said about us while you were there. :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
http://cc.borland.com/Author.aspx?ID=72299
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"But Marge, what if we chose the wrong religion? Each week we just make
God madder and madder." - Homer Simpson
Jan Derk
> The problem is that the evidence is there. Craig Stuntz posted a
> rather long list of enhancements to the Win32 compiler. Win64 is on
> the Roadmap.
>
> What kind of "evidence" is needed here?
Unicode VCL for a start. Danny Thorpe himself said that win32 would
only get features he could "fly under the radar".
The Borland development department getting renamed ".NET development"
was not a big confidence builder either. Did DevCo already get rid of
that name?
Jan Derk
Shawn Oster
"ckd" <ckdupont@_spamno_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4492fd53...@forums.borland.com...
> On 16 Jun 2006 10:59:09 -0700, "John Kaster (Borland)"
> <jo...@borland.com> wrote:
>
>>J. Lee wrote:
>>
>>> IMO, this notion comes from the realization that Borland/DevCo's
>>> gamble on the .NET initiative has received the lion's share of
>>> resource devotion for the past several years.
>>
>>
>>We have tons of new features in the IDE, and significant new work in
>>the VCL, that benefits our Win32 customers directly.
>>
>
> I don't think it's entirely misinformed. Of course what you say is
> true - there has been some work to the IDE and VCL that benefit D32
> customers. However, the 'devotion' that many want to see seems to be
> related to D64, compiler optimization, and unicode - none of which
> seem to be receiving much attention.
I have no idea where this fanatical need for a 64-bit compiler comes from.
Is the 64-bit chip/OS combination really about to burst out into the
consumer or business market? What are the true driving needs for such a
beast? If I was planning out a roadmap I'd definitely make sure .NET
anything was *WAY* before 64-bit and I don't even use Delphi.NET. It's more
visible and there is a much greater need for it. You can please a greater
number of people and your ROI is much better.
Compiler optimization is also fairly low on my list as I'd rather bugs be
fixed before anyone worries about optimizing anything. Are things grossly
inefficient right now except perhaps a few edge cases that might be a huge
benefit to only 3% of the Delphi user-base? If you take every request and
need and feature that everyone wants and rank them by the number of
developers that will benefit from the feature vs. the time it would take to
implement I highly doubt extensive compiler optimization would rise into to
the top 100 items.
Unicode support I *can* see as important, with the need to internationalize
your software.
Shawn Oster
Allen Bauer
>> developers and the Win32 developers. ;-)
>
> .NET developers? Plural? You mean there is more than one guy using
> Delphi for .NET? ;)
Yes of course! There's at *least* 5... Give or take several 10s of
thousands ;-)...
--
Allen Bauer
DevCo Chief Scientist
Borland^H^H^H^H^H^H^HDevCo Software Corporation.
http://blogs.borland.com/abauer
Shawn Oster
"Mark A. Andrews" <KE...@KE4MA.com> wrote in message
news:4492a5f3$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Brian Twinings wrote:
>> Is it just me, or does anyone think that Nick Hodges as product manager
>> is a big mistake?
>>
>
> An interesting question.
>
> I've not always agree with Nick and have at times found him to be arrogant
> and dismissive of the concerns of others IN THIS NEWSGROUP. I don't know
> him personally and I'm sure that when judging me by my responses IN THIS
> NEWSGROUP, many of you may have the same opinion of me.
Took the words from my mouth. In this newsgroup and on his blog I've
sometimes agreed, sometimes disagreed and often thought he was exactly as
you described; arrogant and dismissive.
But then again I don't care if he's the biggest SOB this side of the pond as
long as he stays focused on Delphi the language and product vs. Delphi the
political and dramatic and finds a way to balance the needs of the few with
the needs of the many.
Shawn
Bryce K. Nielsen
> Is the 64-bit chip/OS combination really about to burst out into the
> consumer or business market? What are the true driving needs for such a
> beast? If I was planning out a roadmap I'd definitely make sure .NET
> anything was *WAY* before 64-bit and I don't even use Delphi.NET. It's
> more visible and there is a much greater need for it. You can please a
> greater number of people and your ROI is much better.
>
64bit chips and Windows OS have been out for a while, and I know of a couple
companies that would love a Delphi64 (mainly to speed up some processor
intensive processes). But my biggest reasoning for pushing D64 is to be
"first to market" but of course only if it's marketing properly. This
advantage could earn Delphi a new niche among the compilers out there...
-BKN
Dan Barclay
FWIW, I think that's dead wrong. It's way too short sighted. The reason to
use Delphi is for long term flexibility and stability, continued development
of the developer product, so that we can continue to develop and enhance or
own products. WHEREVER THAT TAKES US.
(sorry for the shouting)
While you can't cover every platform satisfactorily, it's important to
provide some flexibility in deployment, and the ability to meet the needs of
those who need to connect with platforms that have (or appear will) achieve
a critical mass of some sort.
That said, it would be downright *wrong* to leave native development off.
It would kill Delphi. It's also a huge mistake to ignore everything but
native. After all, what is "native". You're really talking about WinTel,
not native Motorola or native cellphone, or native PDA or...
Sorry for the rant, but I've been too close to folks who get so focused they
let themselves believe nothing else exists (or should exist). Delphi
wouldn't be very important to a lot of us (even those of us not really using
.Net) if it didn't support .Net.
But you knew that. I hope<g>.
Later,
Dan
"Nick Hodges (Borland/DevCo)" <nickh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:449310ea$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jan Derk
> I have no idea where this fanatical need for a 64-bit compiler comes
> from. Is the 64-bit chip/OS combination really about to burst out
> into the consumer or business market?
With pretty much all new computers shipping with a 64-bit CPU I would
say yes.
> What are the true driving
> needs for such a beast?
Breaking the current memory limitation mainly, but there are plenty
others.
> If I was planning out a roadmap I'd
> definitely make sure .NET anything was WAY before 64-bit and I don't
> even use Delphi.NET.
You are not unique in *not* using Delphi.NET. Pretty much everyone else
does the logical thing and is using Visual Studio for .NET work. With
.NET 3 and LINQ comming up this is not likely to change.
> It's more visible
That is for sure. Microsoft PR money well spend.
> and there is a much greater
> need for it. You can please a greater number of people and your ROI
> is much better.
Now that I doubt greatly. Visual Studio is what pretty much everyone
uses for .NET work. Native Delphi has plenty of advantages over
Microsoft solutions. Delphi.NET mainly got disadvantages. So why
Borland and DevCo think it is a good idea to spend their main resources
for the next two years and Delphi releases on the .NET side is beyond
me. Native code is what kept Delphi afloat until now, but still the
roadmap is like .NET, .NET, .NET and .NET and a we probably do some
native stuff in 2008...
> Unicode support I can see as important, with the need to
> internationalize your software.
There we agree a lot.
Jan Derk
Randy Magruder
> Just to expound, I get this feeling not from me, but from the
> companies I work with. All of them that decided to use DotNet jumped
> the Delphi ship. They all figured, if we're going to use DotNet,
> might as well make it C#. So the only thing they continue to use
> Delphi for is native code.
Actually, in the case of several companies I've talked to, they refer
to it as:
"We're moving from Delphi to .NET."
E.g. they haven't a CLUE that Delphi.NET is an option. They just
consider .NET to be synonymous with Microsoft's Visual Studio and C#.
I've had to do a fair bit of educating on that issue, since these
people missed a memo or two. But of course, by the time I speak to
them, it's too late. They've already set things in motion.
> IMHO, it's a great marketing angle, to be the best native IDE (very
> little competition out there now for that claim). And if you can add
> Win64 to that mix, all the better, especially if you're one of the
> first...
There's even LESS competition out for the claim of being the best
MS-DOS IDE. Why doesn't Delphi become that instead?? Win32 is on an
exit path for enterprise development, whether we like it or not,
because Microsoft will drag everyone in....
Randy
--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
4492c3da$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| The kind of thinking above, is what I hope we wont see among
| new DevCo guys. It really scares me and I can only hope, that those
| small "unimportant" 2-5 people shop companies are the real
| chance for DevCo to become successful. I really doubt DevCo
| will get a big number of <new> corporate contracts.
| On the other hand I believe that if Delphi is back to its roots
| they may convince an army of people still using good old
| Delphi 5-7 to buy an upgrade.
I never said that small companies were unimportant, that is your (incorrect)
assumption. I was simply stating that there are *also* larger customers that
DevCo have to think about *as well* as the smaller shops. They cannot *only*
aim sales at the desires of a small group, they have to consider the
*whole* market.
| Just another corporate centered view.
Believe me, I am not speaking from a corporate POV, I am a single consultant
and am very anxious to see DevCo cater for the the smaller developer as
well.
Joanna
--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Bryce K. Nielsen
>> internationalize your software.
>
> There we agree a lot.
>
I'll third that.
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
> MS-DOS IDE. Why doesn't Delphi become that instead??
That's just silly and you know it.
> Win32 is on an
> exit path for enterprise development, whether we like it or not,
> because Microsoft will drag everyone in....
>
Which is what we're trying to say, a native Win64 compiler as Win32 is being
phased out...
-BKN
Bryce K. Nielsen
>
> FWIW, I think that's dead wrong. It's way too short sighted. The reason
> to use Delphi is for long term flexibility and stability, continued
> development of the developer product, so that we can continue to develop
> and enhance or own products. WHEREVER THAT TAKES US.
>
Oh, there are *plenty* of DEVELOPER reasons to us Delphi, but in most
companies Developers aren't in charge (which is probably why you see Delphi
more prevalent in small shops than big ones), which prompted my
clarification post. Management seems to feel that Delphi is only good for
Win32 (and hopefully Win64) development. ALL Management I've spoken with
have said "If we're doing DotNet, we're doing C#".
So, that's why I say the only reason for Delphi is for native code...
-BKN
J. Lee
Great! You've just opened the door for the anti-.NET contingency to say
that there are negative 10,000s of .NET developers. <g>
Jason