Turbos Distribution
Rod
Interesting figures from the Turbo front:
Delphi Win32 48%
C++ Win32 24%
Delphi .Net 14%
C# .Net 14%
Mark A. Andrews
If this is indeed accurate, it isn't surprising to those of us still in
the Win32 camp.
Mark
![Wayne Niddery [TeamB]'s profile photo](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/default-user=s40-c)
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>>
>> Delphi Win32 48%
>> C++ Win32 24%
>> Delphi .Net 14%
>> C# .Net 14%
It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. No one is disputing that Win32 is
still going to be the lion's share of Delphi (BDS) use for awhile at the
very least, and because no one else is really supporting Win32 anymore, I
can see it lasting for a *very* long time.
However, 28% for the .Net side is actually very good at this point, I would
think that has grown over what it would've been, say, a year ago, and it's a
pretty safe bet that will continue to grow. That doesn't mean Win32 use will
drop much (maybe not at all), but its percentage share will over time. Once
Highlander is out and DTG can claim at least .Net 2.0 support I think this
will grow quite a bit.
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"At the apex of every great tragedy of mankind there stands the figure
of an incorruptible altruist." - Ayn Rand
Chris Burrows
news:4529...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. No one is disputing that Win32 is
> still going to be the lion's share of Delphi (BDS) use for awhile at the
> very least, and because no one else is really supporting Win32 anymore, I
> can see it lasting for a *very* long time.
>
By 'no one else' are you referring to Microsoft alone or did you have other
software tools developers in mind? If so, who?
Other active Win32 development systems that immediately come to mind are
FreePascal, TMT Pascal, RealBasic, Intel C/C++. I can't see any of these
going to .NET real soon.
--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
Mark A. Andrews
>
> It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. No one is disputing that Win32 is
> still going to be the lion's share of Delphi (BDS) use for awhile at the
> very least, and because no one else is really supporting Win32 anymore, I
> can see it lasting for a *very* long time.
>
> However, 28% for the .Net side is actually very good at this point, I would
> think that has grown over what it would've been, say, a year ago, and it's a
> pretty safe bet that will continue to grow. That doesn't mean Win32 use will
> drop much (maybe not at all), but its percentage share will over time. Once
> Highlander is out and DTG can claim at least .Net 2.0 support I think this
> will grow quite a bit.
>
I would argue that there a many like me that downloaded both the Win32
and the .net version of Explorer, even though for now, I have no plans
to move any of my apps to .net.
A more interesting set of stats would be of those that downloaded the
Turbos, how many are actively using them for production work.
Mark
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> By 'no one else' are you referring to Microsoft alone or did you have
> other software tools developers in mind? If so, who?
No one else *significant*.
> Other active Win32 development systems that immediately come to mind
> are FreePascal, TMT Pascal, RealBasic, Intel C/C++. I can't see any
> of these going to .NET real soon.
As above. Delphi has a small market share compared to VS, but the above
products make Delphi look rather big (probably excepting Intel C/C++, but I
don't know).
--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." — Robert
Wilensky
Jolyon Smith
says...
> As above. Delphi has a small market share compared to VS, but the above
> products make Delphi look rather big
Isn't the more important characteristic how that market share is
changing, not the particular level it is at at any particular moment in
time?
Not that I know one way or the other how that variable might be changing
for the particular products mentioned.
If/when Delphi is down to < 0.01% market share, will it help to know
that there are other tool that make this look big?
--
Jolyon Smith
Chris Burrows
news:MPG.1f948ac83...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> In article <4529b70d$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>, Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
> says...
>
>> As above. Delphi has a small market share compared to VS, but the above
>> products make Delphi look rather big
>
> Isn't the more important characteristic how that market share is
> changing, not the particular level it is at at any particular moment in
> time?
>
Good point.
There's also a difference between 'no one else is really supporting Win32
anymore' and 'Microsoft is not really supporting Win32 anymore'.
I'm more concerned that the tool I use is robust and stable and does the job
that I want it to do, reliably and effectively, rather than somehow feeling
comfortable about being part of a large flock of sheep. More often than not,
I have made real good use (in the past and right now) of development tools
whose count of users number in the mere hundreds. Delphi just happens to be
an exception for me.
Brian Moelk
>> Interesting figures from the Turbo front:
>
My best guess is that he's one of the mirrors and has access to his
download logs. I'm not sure if it's legal or in good faith to share
those numbers, but that's a separate issue.
--
Brian Moelk
Brain Endeavor LLC
bmo...@NObrainSPAMendeavorFOR.MEcom
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> My best guess is that he's one of the mirrors and has access to his
> download logs. I'm not sure if it's legal or in good faith to share
> those numbers, but that's a separate issue.
I can't see how it's illegal or in bad faith to share numbers from
something we're explicitly allowed to redistribute, but if so it would
be not exactly a complete picture.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Want to help make Delphi and InterBase better? Use QC!
http://qc.borland.com -- Vote for important issues
Rod
> In article <45297236$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>, Rod <9...@999.com>
>
>> Interesting figures from the Turbo front:
>
>
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> It depends on the agreements made to be a mirror. I don't know if
> they had to sign some kind of non-disclosure.
AFAIK anyone is allowed to redistribute it without individual
permission from Borland.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Please read and follow Borland's rules for the user of their
server: http://support.borland.com/entry.jspa?externalID=293
Nathaniel L. Walker
think. If Borland wants to donate software to shareware authors in a
pitiful
attempt at competing with Microsoft (who has already given away millions
upon millions of VS2005 Standard Edition licenses that have most of the
feature
set of BDS2006 Professional Edition; and the Express Editions /can/ all be
installed
on the same computer, no problems) then by all means do so.
I, for one, would refuse to use electronic activation for an Express-level
product.
Where is Turbo InterBase (no limitations, we don't need graphical tools
since there
are many Open Source variants and it's easy enough to build one yourself)?
Nevermind, it's called Firebird...
- Nate.
"Mark A. Andrews" <KE...@KE4MA.com> wrote in message
news:4529abfe$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Brian Moelk
> I can't see how it's illegal or in bad faith to share numbers from
> something we're explicitly allowed to redistribute, but if so it would
> be not exactly a complete picture.
It depends on the agreements made to be a mirror. I don't know if they
had to sign some kind of non-disclosure.
I also agree that if it were from a mirror, it would be an incomplete
picture, but probably a reasonably large enough sample to be of some value.
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> I also agree that if it were from a mirror, it would be an incomplete
> picture, but probably a reasonably large enough sample to be of some
> value.
Oh, and based on Rod's source, the sample size would have been 9720
downloads total. Out of how many Turbos registered I have no idea.
Granted not all downloads would be registered, but that's the closest
anyone has to a total number of copies in use.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Simon Kissel
>> something we're explicitly allowed to redistribute, but if so it would
>> be not exactly a complete picture.
>
> It depends on the agreements made to be a mirror. I don't know if they
> had to sign some kind of non-disclosure.
No, we did not have to.
Simon
Simon Kissel
>
> Thank you. It looks heavily weighted toward german speakers. I wonder
> if the ratios are the same for other mirrors.
I can confirm that the numbers are pretty similar for the torrent-mirror:
Delphi Win32: 41%
C++: 28%
C#: 16%
Delphi.NET 15%
4300 samples.
Language distribution is:
English: 63%
German: 16%
Japanese: 16%
French: 5%
Simon
Rod
I don't understand the effort on .net in Delphi 2007. I would force
native Win64, Generics, Unicode...
Simon Kissel
>
> relative ranking. C++ actually did better than I expected.
Yes, I'm suprised about that, too. Maybe that's because the C++ user
have the biggest urge for a new version due to getting no new releases
during the last year.
Also interesting is that Delphi.NET actually is on the last place, even
behind C# - I would not have imagined anyone familar with C# would
go for a Borland tool...
Simon
Simon Kissel
> I don't understand the effort on .net in Delphi 2007. I would force native
> Win64, Generics, Unicode...
Well, I guess we can assume that Borland/BTG also knows about
these numbers and stats themselves. ;)
I'm pretty confident that after the massive amount of Feedback they've
now gathered during the last few weeks, they'll also have internal
discussions about if their current roadmap still makes sense.
We'll see...
Simon
Rod
The current Delphi 2007 road map says
.net, .net, .net, .net, .net, ..., few Win32 improvements (but don't
expect to much)
Eric Grange
> go for a Borland tool...
Maybe they were looking for a lightweight alternative to VS, like #Develop?
That's what I have on the laptop.
Eric
Simon Kissel
> .net, .net, .net, .net, .net, ..., few Win32 improvements (but don't
> expect to much)
Yeah, but then again, this roadmap was written long before TurboDelphi
was released, and before they got made aware by their customers that
they finally need to do what the remaining customers are asking for if
they wish to keep them...
So hey, please don't destroy my hope that they've finally got it ;)
Simon
Rod
> Yeah, but then again, this roadmap was written long before TurboDelphi
> was released, and before they got made aware by their customers that
> they finally need to do what the remaining customers are asking for if
> they wish to keep them...
Before the Turbos came out Borland was not able to figure out the real
distribution (BDS = all in one).
Dave Jewell
>> C++ Win32 24%
>> Delphi .Net 14%
>> C# .Net 14%
>>
> If this is indeed accurate, it isn't surprising to those of us still in
> the Win32 camp.
No huge surprises. Maybe the only surprise is that C++/Win32 is doing so
well.
Dave