D2007 searching .Net help - comments from Codegear?
Steve Thackery
the .Net help as follows:
> Well, I did some search on my disk and found out that you can simply
> delete this whole folder:
>
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft.NET\SDK\v2.0\Docs\1033
This is fascinating, although presumably it will knacker the help in Visual
Studio?
More to the point, could someone at Codegear explain why the new, improved
help system is even looking at the .Net help? Surely it has no role to play
in the current, W32-only product.
Codegear guys: is there a way of stopping D2007 from searching the Microsoft
.Net help files? This would be better than deleting them and breaking VS.
Surely it must be easy! (Though why wasn't it done to start with?)
If you could offer a solution that doesn't break Visual Studio (or the
Express products), that would be incredibly helpful.
Thanks,
Steve
Fernando Madruga
> In a previous thread, Fernando Madruge stopped D2007's help from searching
> the .Net help as follows:
>
>> Well, I did some search on my disk and found out that you can simply
>> delete this whole folder:
>>
>> C:\Program Files\Microsoft.NET\SDK\v2.0\Docs\1033
>
> This is fascinating, although presumably it will knacker the help in Visual
> Studio?
Correct! I've said in my blog post to beware of other products using
that help, but I see now I failed to do that in the news post! :)
> More to the point, could someone at Codegear explain why the new, improved
> help system is even looking at the .Net help? Surely it has no role to play
> in the current, W32-only product.
I'm not from CG, but I can give you a couple hints on why:
1) DExplore is now used for the Studio products for the help system (and
has been since D2005, I believe); since they use it for the .NET side,
it makes no sense for them to use another one, even for a "for Win32"
only product;
2) MS related help (all those nice windows calls) is now only made
available by MS on that format;
3) They didn't have the time to properly add some Delphi related filters
to the help before releasing or they wouldn't release it in the 1st Quarter.
> Codegear guys: is there a way of stopping D2007 from searching the Microsoft
> .Net help files? This would be better than deleting them and breaking VS.
> Surely it must be easy! (Though why wasn't it done to start with?)
You can use the Index tab in the help instead of the search and that
will reduce the number of .net entries returned, although neither is
currently very complete, i.e., your only hope is to wait a few more
months (can't tell you how many), and wait for SP1, SP2 or whatever. If
they work hard, maybe in the summer we'll have that promised "improved
help"...
Chris Burrows
news:461b5864$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> More to the point, could someone at Codegear explain why the new, improved
> help system is even looking at the .Net help? Surely it has no role to
> play in the current, W32-only product.
>
A very good question.
> Codegear guys: is there a way of stopping D2007 from searching the
> Microsoft .Net help files? This would be better than deleting them and
> breaking VS. Surely it must be easy! (Though why wasn't it done to start
> with?)
>
> If you could offer a solution that doesn't break Visual Studio (or the
> Express products), that would be incredibly helpful.
>
I spent some time looking into this today after being inspired by Fernando's
ideas. I want to hide a lot of irrelevant stuff that I keep tripping over in
the BDS 2006 Help as I'm only using the Win32 Delphi personality.
It seems that the MS Help2 system was designed to be flexible enough to do
that. It is organised in 'collections' that can be added / removed from
existing help. The Borland collection is separate from the VS collection
(look at the corresponding Help shortcut properties for each) so it should
be possible to tailor one without affecting the other.
I couldn't spend too much time on it but I did come across a lot of useful
information on the Helpware site. This page talks about integrating
additional help into Borland C# Builder:
http://www.helpware.net/mshelp2/collections.htm
Let us know if and how you make any progress.
--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> 3) They didn't have the time to properly add some Delphi related
> filters to the help before releasing or they wouldn't release it in
> the 1st Quarter.
No, there's a couple of relevant filters defined already; they're just
not selected by default. Drop down the filters combo and you'll see
them.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
How to ask questions the smart way:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Ken Adam
"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <craig_...@nospam.please [a.k.a. acm.org]> wrote
in message news:461b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Fernando Madruga wrote:
>
>> 3) They didn't have the time to properly add some Delphi related
>> filters to the help before releasing or they wouldn't release it in
>> the 1st Quarter.
>
> No, there's a couple of relevant filters defined already; they're just
> not selected by default. Drop down the filters combo and you'll see
> them.
As someone pointed out during the 24 hour event, these (rumoured) filters do
not appear for everyone.
The only fix offered (by another user) was to reboot, but like the person
who raised it, I have rebooted
many times and the filter list is still empty.
Combined with the Pascal language reference not being in the index, this
makes the help hard to use.
(e.g. Help on "mod" takes me to VB help, help on "integer" takes me to
Active Directory).
How do I make these filters appear?
(FWIW I had Net2 and Help2 already installed since I have to use VS2005 for
PocketPC
development - could this be the cause?)
Ken.
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> As someone pointed out during the 24 hour event, these (rumoured)
> filters do not appear for everyone.
> [...]
> How do I make these filters appear?
I don't know. They work for me, and I hadn't heard of this problem
before.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Everything You Need to Know About InterBase Character Sets:
http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/403.aspx
Steve Thackery
too.
Steve
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> No, there's a couple of relevant filters defined already; they're
> just not selected by default. Drop down the filters combo and you'll
> see them.
Gack, I feel dumb. I was looking at the D2006 help, not the D2007
help. I have three IDEs using two versions of H2O running at the same
time, and I'm getting confused.
Yes, I don't have filters defined, either, in D2007. OTOH, I don't see
any .NET items in help *except* for stuff like ECO, which arguably
shouldn't be there, but is clearly coming from Borland. I *do* see
stuff like MS help on COM with VBScript examples, which IMHO *should*
be there.
The custom filter UI has changed since the last version of H2O, but
it's still customizable. You have to create an XML file with the query,
like this:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb286973(vs.80).aspx
Kent Briggs
> I don't know. They work for me, and I hadn't heard of this problem
> before.
I guess you didn't see the "Delphi 2007 Help Index" thread I started on
March 18. The only thing in my "Filter by:" droplist is "(no filter)".
--
Kent Briggs, kbr...@spamcop.net
Briggs Softworks, http://www.briggsoft.com
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> I guess you didn't see the "Delphi 2007 Help Index" thread I started
> on March 18. The only thing in my "Filter by:" droplist is "(no
> filter)".
See my other post; I was just wrong about this.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Borland newsgroup denizen Sergio González has a new CD of
Irish music out, and it's good: http://tinyurl.com/7hgfr
Anders Melander
>Codegear guys: is there a way of stopping D2007 from searching the Microsoft
>.Net help files? This would be better than deleting them and breaking VS.
>Surely it must be easy! (Though why wasn't it done to start with?)
Try this:
1) Open notepad and paste the following into it (unwrap if nescessary):
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<SearchFilter xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/2004/08/Help/SearchFilter" Version="0.1.0.0">
<FilterAttribute>
<Id>Language</Id>
<Name _locID="name.1">Language</Name>
<FilterValue>
<Id>Delphi32</Id>
<Name _locID="name.2">Delphi for Win32</Name>
<Meaning>
<LocalFilterString>("DevLang"="Delphi")</LocalFilterString>
<TocInclude></TocInclude>
</Meaning>
</FilterValue>
</FilterAttribute>
</SearchFilter>
2) Save the file as
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VS Help Data\8.0\Filters\1033\DelphiLangFilter.xml
The above is the default location. The folder might be called something else on your system.
3) Import the following registry key:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\VisualStudio\8.0\Help\VisibleFilters]
"DelphiLangFilter"=dword:00000001
4) Open the "RAD Studio Documentation".
You can now select "Delphi for Win32" in the language drop down on the search pane.
Please note that this filter won't work as-is for 3rd party help files (e.g. Indy and Rave) because they haven't defined the
nescessary attributes - i.e. the "DevLang" attribute.
See the files in ...\VS Help Data\8.0\Filters\1033\ for examples of how the standard filters have been implemented.
Fernando Madruga
> Try this:
Did 1 and 2 with no problem.
> 3) Import the following registry key:
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\VisualStudio\8.0\Help\VisibleFilters]
> "DelphiLangFilter"=dword:00000001
Had to create the Help and VisibleFilters subkeys, but also no big issue.
> 4) Open the "RAD Studio Documentation".
> You can now select "Delphi for Win32" in the language drop down on the search pane.
Well, it does seem to improve "manual" search, even though it still uses
the .NET stuff for F1. Still, I'll add it to my blog, crediting you, if
you don't mind...
On a subsequent try, Step 3 is not needed anyway, so no need to create
those keys. (Tested after rebooting the VM and re-applying steps 1 and 2).
Anders Melander
>Still, I'll add it to my blog, crediting you, if
>you don't mind...
Sure - Spread the word.
>On a subsequent try, Step 3 is not needed anyway, so no need to create
>those keys. (Tested after rebooting the VM and re-applying steps 1 and 2).
According to MSDN they are needed. Don't know what for though.
FWIW I've created a QC report on this stuff (and lots more):
Report No: 44148 Status: Reported
Poor integration with Document Explorer search
http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=44148
Ken Adam
"Anders Melander" <and...@aztech.dk> wrote in message
news:pjvn139lfvrnqiam2...@4ax.com...
> Try this:
I did indeed try this and I get a language filter, but selecting it makes no
difference to the search.
Experimenting with some of the MS options doesn't filter the search either.
When I run VS2005, I don't see the Delphi filter listed.
Selecting(say) html there still gives me C++ help.
I guess the MS Help is even more broken than I though it was.
Does the filter actually change the search results for you?
Ken.
Fernando Madruga
> Does the filter actually change the search results for you?
It only works for the "search" option inside help. It will *not* be used
when you press F1 over some keyword. Also, you need to uncheck the other
options and leave just "Delphi" selected.
Anders Melander
>It only works for the "search" option inside help. It will *not* be used
>when you press F1 over some keyword. Also, you need to uncheck the other
>options and leave just "Delphi" selected.
What he said.
Chris Burrows
news:461e585e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Is HelpReg distributed with D2007? (It's in the BDS Help\Common folder in
BDS 2006.)
If so, run HelpReg from a command-line prompt for instructions.
HelpReg -2 is supposed to uninstall the .NET help.
Fernando Madruga
> Is HelpReg distributed with D2007? (It's in the BDS Help\Common folder in
> BDS 2006.)
Nope. Was on 2006, not on 2007.
Ken Adam
news:461e585e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
That is what I was trying.
Open help,
go to search page,
deselect all the other options leaving only the new Delphi one selected,
enter (say) "integer" as the search word
get 500 matches, the first of which is for "Active Directory".
Repeat with any other combination of filter selected, get the same search
results
(I'd have expected to get to the Delphi ordinal types help page.)
Repeat with "mod", I still get the Visual Basic help
I suspect my help installation is confused somehow and wanted to confirm
that the filter actually worked for others.
I already had VS2005 & Mobile SDK installed, so maybe adding the Delphi help
to an existing install does something different.
Can't spare the time (or bandwidth) to re-install it all from scratch at the
moment just to see if it fixes it.
In VS2005, I regularly get told that there is no help because I've
(apparently) selected only on-line help and I'm not online.
(I am online and I haven't selected to only have online help - a retry
produces the results).
Ken
Fernando Madruga
> deselect all the other options leaving only the new Delphi one selected,
> enter (say) "integer" as the search word
> get 500 matches, the first of which is for "Active Directory".
> Repeat with any other combination of filter selected, get the same search
> results
That's probably because Delphi *also* includes the VB and Active
Directory help files (250 MB of PSDK help files). That and the fact that
the search doesn't work *that* well for Delphi related keywords.
You can try using the Index instead as I've been told it works better
for Delphi topics (although far from perfect as many items are not there
either!)...
In the end, it will probably be quite a few months if CG works at full
steam on that "improved" help before it really is *that* improved! :)
Nothing left to do about it other than wait...
Fernando Madruga
help (at least not in the first positions!). Not that it actually was of
any "help", as the results for an "integer" search had nothing to do
with the keyword, but they were VCL related...
Also, you could try renaming the following folder:
"C:\Program Files\CodeGear\RAD Studio\5.0\Help\Doc\PSDK" so that it does
not get searched also...
And for the online option, you can easily change that with
Tools->Options->Help->Online in the help viewer.
Here's what my searches for integer and mod returned as first results:
integer:
ms-help://borland.bds5/delphivclwin32/Provider_TCustomProvider_GetRecords@Integer@Int...@Integer.html
ms-help://borland.bds5/delphivclwin32/ImgList_TCustomImageList_Draw@TCanvas@Integer@Integer@Int...@Boolean.html
ms-help://borland.bds5/delphivclwin32/ImgList_TCustomImageList_DrawOverlay@TCanvas@Integer@Integer@Integer@TOverlay@Boolean.html
ms-help://borland.bds5/delphivclwin32/Controls_TMargins_SetControlBounds@Integer@Integer@Integer@Int...@Boolean.html
mod:
ms-help://borland.bds5/devcommon/expressions_xml.html
ms-help://borland.bds5/devnet/eco_usingocl_xml.html
ms-help://borland.bds5/IEEXT/workshop/browser/mshtml/reference/constants/idm_composesettings.htm
ms-help://borland.bds5/devcommon/assemblyexpressions_xml.html
Whome
>> It only works for the "search" option inside help. It will *not* be used
>> when you press F1 over some keyword. Also, you need to uncheck the other
>> options and leave just "Delphi" selected.
> Is HelpReg distributed with D2007? (It's in the BDS Help\Common folder in
> BDS 2006.)
>
> If so, run HelpReg from a command-line prompt for instructions.
>
> HelpReg -2 is supposed to uninstall the .NET help.
Is it really that Delphi help system does not let give default "filtered
by" value?
Some register value may be available, but not documented. I would like
it to have "Developer Studio 2006 for Win32" default value each time
delphi system is started. Then I can change it if want to see .NET entries.
Chris Burrows
> Is it really that Delphi help system does not let give default "filtered
> by" value?
>
> Some register value may be available, but not documented. I would like
> it to have "Developer Studio 2006 for Win32" default value each time
> delphi system is started. Then I can change it if want to see .NET
> entries.
Yes, but that is yet another issue as well. I haven't found a way to set a
default filter with the VS Help system either.
I have three separate questions:
1. Why is the .NET SDK *documentation* incorporated into the Help system of
a Win32-only product?
2. Is there a problem with the filter definitions?
3. Can a default filter be set?