how to calculate VAT
Charles Vinal
selling products from the United States to European countries. I figured the
international background of many of this forum's participants would help
anwer this question. Most of the products are educational products - e.g., a
book, CD, paper. Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers live? e.g.,
charge 20% to customers in France, 17.5% for those in Britain, etc? Or is it
based upon the country from which the product is bought? (e.g., charge same
VAT tax to all customers based on sale of US product). Any help is greatly
appreciated.
Charlie
Jim Cooper
> Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers live?
Yes. You collect the VAT at 17.5% for UK customers and pay Customs & Excise in
the UK, for example.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
!["Henrick Hellström [StreamSec]"'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjV3KHenxfvxLOAqv2Ffez_9o81Et7uiVcF5l_3bHlpoQ-o7=s40-c)
"Henrick Hellström [StreamSec]"
>
> > Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers live?
>
> Yes. You collect the VAT at 17.5% for UK customers and pay Customs &
> Excise in the UK, for example.
Isn't the rule, more precisely, that VAT is collected in the country
where the sale takes place, which in turn usually means the place where
the product is finally transferred to the customer? If you purchase an
item from a U.S. company and travel yourself to the U.S. to pick it up,
you pay U.S. sales tax and not U.K. VAT (and you get a refund when you
leave the U.S. but have to declare it to U.K. customs). Different
applies if the product is software you download from a U.S. server: You
only pay VAT if both the seller and the buyer are in the same country
(or both are in the EU).
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
Another thing to remember is that the US doesn't charge VAT. Certain
States, Counties and Cities charge VAT.
--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com
Jolyon Smith
cvi...@euclidtechnology.com says...
As you have probably gathered from the initial responses, it's a bit
more tricky than just "what %age do I charge? sellers country's rate or
buyers country's rate".
You may also need to be aware of duty rates.
Also, you mention educational products - be aware that some countries
may have specific VAT/Sales Duty exemptions or qualifications for
educational institutions and/or educational products.
Alternatively you may not need to be aware of any of these things,
depending on how the supplier accounts for shipping charges etc.
i.e. if I buy something from a US supplier for shipping to the UK, I am
not charged any VAT or Sales Tax by the US company. I pay for the goods
and the quoted shipping charge and the goods are dispatched.
At the point that the goods reach UK shores, HM Customs and Excise will
levy Excise Duty and VAT (any import Duty being a separate charge to the
VAT!). Most international shipping companies have arrangements in place
to pay those charges on behalf of the recipient and then invoice them
separately for it. Even if goods are sent by bog-standard airmail, the
UK postal service will themselves calculate UK duty and VAT based on the
stated value and nature of the goods and present the recipient with that
seperate bill when the goods are delivered.
Sometimes the Gods smile on the little guy and a shipment, sometimes
even quite significant ones, will pass through customs without
attracting any duty or VAT.
:D
i.e. for all the complexity of different tax rates etc, you may only
need to record that a sale was to an overseas customer, i.e. local sales
tax exempt sale.
Ultimately what information you need to capture at the suppliers end I
imagine will come down to the accounting requirements of the company
itself, which in turn may be driven by local taxation and/or accounting
rules.
hth
--
Jolyon Smith
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
> Ultimately what information you need to capture at the suppliers end I
> imagine will come down to the accounting requirements of the company
> itself, which in turn may be driven by local taxation and/or accounting
> rules.
It is quite common to be charged VAT by the supplier and then to have
to reclaim it from the government after you have proof of exportation.
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:21:58 +1200, Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > Ultimately what information you need to capture at the suppliers end I
> > imagine will come down to the accounting requirements of the company
> > itself, which in turn may be driven by local taxation and/or accounting
> > rules.
>
> It is quite common to be charged VAT by the supplier and then to have
> to reclaim it from the government after you have proof of exportation.
It's not just common, it's the law for some countries....
--
Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm
Roger Lascelles
news:443ad608$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Most of the products are educational products - e.g., a
> book, CD, paper. Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers live? e.g.,
> charge 20% to customers in France, 17.5% for those in Britain, etc? Or is
it
> based upon the country from which the product is bought? (e.g., charge
same
> VAT tax to all customers based on sale of US product). Any help is greatly
> appreciated.
Some info. Mind-boggling stuff. If you offer a download, you are asked to
take out VAT as favour to the EU! Delivery of physical media like CDs, books
gets VAT on on entry to the country.
http://www.webpronews.com/news/ebusinessnews/wpn-45-20031023CopingWithVATEUs
NeweCommerceTax.html
or
Google will get you a lot of info on VAT. Eg HM Customs for UK etc. Heaps
of confusion in this area.
Roger Lascelles
Jim Rowell
AFAIK,
Companies in the U.S. and Canada do not collect tax for areas outside of
their own tax jurisdictions.
That means if a buyer does not reside in the same state or province as the
seller then no state sales/provincial sales tax is charged. Same goes for
Canadian GST (a federal tax). If the buyer is not in Canada, no GST is
charged. Duties, etc that may be charged by the buyer's own government when
the package lands are the buyer's problem.
In other words, you don't have to calculate anything. The tax is zero
(IANAL, IANAA).
The above applies when the buyer is not physically present. When making
purchases in person, visitors are expected to pay all taxes and then apply
to the government to be re-embursed.
I buy and sell into the U.S. and Canadian provinces outside of my own and
this is the way it's always been for me.
--
Jim Rowell
Alisdair Meredith[TeamB]
> Most of the products are educational products - e.g., a book, CD,
> paper.
Just in case you weren't confused enough already ...
In the UK books are zero-rated for VAT, i.e. 0% (which is not the same
as exempt, probably the bookkeeping)
If you bundle a free CD with your book, the whole item, both 'free' CD
and book, become subject to 17.5% VAT.
It was really annoying when the trend for useless 'free' CDs was at its
highest, usually on the more expensive books too. There were many CDs
that did not add value equal to the VAT they added (generally ?5 - ?10)
--
AlisdairM(TeamB)
Rene Tschaggelar
Possibly not mentioned clearly : Exports are
always free of VAT. It is the country of
destination that adds their own VAT. You as
exporter shouldn't be too concerned about that,
except that when comparing prices with their
market, you have to take into account how
they advertize. EG here in switzerland,
industrial offers are without VAT, but
household offers include the VAT. Both pay
VAT but it is not advertized as such.
Whereas in Germany the industrial offers
include the VAT.
Rene
Jim Cooper
> Isn't the rule, more precisely, that VAT is collected in the country
> where the sale takes place, which in turn usually means the place where
> the product is finally transferred to the customer?
Usually. However, recently the rules have changed.
> Different applies if the product is software you download from a U.S.
> server: You only pay VAT if both the seller and the buyer are in the
> same country (or both are in the EU).
No, that is no longer the case.
Jim Cooper
> i.e. if I buy something from a US supplier for shipping to the UK, I am
> not charged any VAT or Sales Tax by the US company. I pay for the goods
> and the quoted shipping charge and the goods are dispatched.
That is no longer true
TObject
"Jim Cooper" <jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk> wrote in message news:443b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> i.e. if I buy something from a US supplier for shipping to the UK, I am not charged any VAT or Sales Tax by the US company. I
>> pay for the goods and the quoted shipping charge and the goods are dispatched.
> That is no longer true
Oh yes, it's true. I work for a US company, and we ship to Europe a lot.
Good luck making us to collect taxes on behalf of any foreign governments;
they can kiss my... you know what.
Jim Cooper
> Possibly not mentioned clearly : Exports are
> always free of VAT.
That is no longer always true.
> It is the country of
> destination that adds their own VAT. You as
> exporter shouldn't be too concerned about that
Well, strictly speaking the destination country adds the VAT. However, that may
well be collected by the exporter.
Jim Cooper
> AFAIK,
> Companies in the U.S. and Canada do not collect tax for areas outside of
> their own tax jurisdictions.
They do now. They have been asked to collect VAT on behalf of EU countries, for
example.
Jim Cooper
> Clarification: we ship via a common carrier.
AFAIK the shipping is irrelevant.
There is plenty of info around about this if you want to check though.
Jim Cooper
> Oh yes, it's true.
No it's not. You need to read up on recent changes (12 - 18 months ago, IIRC).
> I work for a US company, and we ship to Europe a lot.
> Good luck making us to collect taxes on behalf of any foreign governments;
> they can kiss my... you know what.
That may be your enlightened attitude, but nevertheless, US companies **do**
collect VAT for EU countries.
TObject
"TObject" <newsgro...@pronografics.com> wrote in message news:443b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Oh yes, it's true. I work for a US company, and we ship to Europe a lot.
> Good luck making us to collect taxes on behalf of any foreign governments;
> they can kiss my... you know what.
Clarification: we ship via a common carrier.
Christopher Burke
> charge 20% to customers in France, 17.5% for those in Britain, etc? Or is it
> based upon the country from which the product is bought? (e.g., charge same
> VAT tax to all customers based on sale of US product). Any help is greatly
> appreciated.
Just be thankful you are not calculating GST (Australian VAT) on Chickens...
It's something like this:
1. Frozen in the supermarket - no GST
2. Cooked whole - GST
3. Cooked whole, but cooled down - no GST
4. Cooked, cooled down, bits - GST
Thanks Democrats ... that's why I got out of food retail software :)
Rene Tschaggelar
>
>> Possibly not mentioned clearly : Exports are
>> always free of VAT.
>
>
> That is no longer always true.
See below.
>
>> It is the country of
>> destination that adds their own VAT. You as
>> exporter shouldn't be too concerned about that
>
>
> Well, strictly speaking the destination country adds the VAT. However,
> that may well be collected by the exporter.
That only applies to inside the European Union.
Ah, yes, you're from the EU.
Rene
TObject
"Jim Cooper" <jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk> wrote in message news:443b4b8e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> There is plenty of info around about this if you want to check though.
Yes, starting with history books: Boston Tea Party,
"No taxation without representation," etc.
OBones
Book, paper is 5.6%
CD is 19.6%
That's because there is a special low rate for "cultural" products. And
yes, you read well, Music CDs are not cultural... Ah the weirdness of
tax laws...
Jim Cooper
> Yes, starting with history books: Boston Tea Party,
> "No taxation without representation," etc.
You may want to check a more recent reference.
The only companies I have personally come across that collect VAT on sales into
the EU are software companies providing downloads (and not all of them,
obviously), but I don't import anything else from the US.
Jim Cooper
> That only applies to inside the European Union.
As I keep trying to say, that is no longer the only time that happens. US
companies **do** collect VAT now.
> Ah, yes, you're from the EU.
No I'm not. I live in the EU (and oddly enough I did know that).
Jim Cooper
There's also something funny about VAT rates for charities being different,
isn't there? It's a while since I had to code that stuff.
Christopher Burke
> Well, in France, it's actually a bit more complex:
>
> Book, paper is 5.6%
> CD is 19.6%
Nothing compared to the chicken tax in Australia :)
Jan Derk
> > > i.e. if I buy something from a US supplier for shipping to the
> > > UK, I am not charged any VAT or Sales Tax by the US company. I
> > > pay for the goods and the quoted shipping charge and the goods
> > > are dispatched.
> > That is no longer true
> Oh yes, it's true. I work for a US company, and we ship to Europe a
> lot. Good luck making us to collect taxes on behalf of any foreign
> governments; they can kiss my... you know what.
Well that's one way to look at it. If your company is small enough you
may fly under the radar for some time, but the truth of the matter is
that you are breaking the law and some nasty surprises could lie ahead:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/e-
services/index_en.htm
Jan Derk
Roddy
"Charles Vinal" <cvi...@euclidtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:443ad608$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> selling products from the United States to European countries. I figured
> the international background of many of this forum's participants would
> help anwer this question. Most of the products are educational products -
> e.g., a book, CD, paper. Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers
> (e.g., charge same VAT tax to all customers based on sale of US product).
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
I think you've stepped on a real hornets nest here. As Jim keeps trying to
explain, the situation HAS changed significantly in the last 18 months, and
many companies selling 'downloads' into the EU now *have* to collect taxes
on behalf of those EU countries.
I think you need to consider the following:-
a: Are you legally required to do this? The new rules certainly apply to
downloads, but I don't know if they apply to services performed outside the
EU (eg web hosting), or physical goods coming into the EU, which are
typically taxed at point of entry.
Also, there are turnover limits. Within EU countries, you only charge VAT if
you're "VAT registered" which also means you can reclaim VAT you pay. And
you are only forced to become VAT registered if your turnover exceeds a
particular figure, which varies from country to country.
b: Do you sell exclusively to VAT-registered companies, instead of
individuals? If so, you don't need to charge them VAT - assuming they
provide you with a valid VAT number.
c: VAT rates (and probably categories) vary from country to country. Books
are often zero-rated, but the addition of a CD may change it to standard
rate - depending on the country.
Bizarrely, all the above rules change if you're WITHIN the EU. If I sell to
a VAT-registered company in the same country, I MUST charge them VAT, and
pay it to the taxman. If I sell to a VAT-registered company in a different
EU company, you must not charge them VAT. If you do, it's a nightmare for
them to reclaim it. And there are bizarre differences between products and
services...
- Roddy
Oliver Townshend
As opposed to the six donuts rule in Canada? It seems simple enough to me,
it's all based on temperature. I didn't know that bits attracted GST
though. Now the GST on property searches, that's a pain.
Oliver Townshend
Oliver Townshend
>>> not charged any VAT or Sales Tax by the US company. I pay for the goods
>>> and the quoted shipping charge and the goods are dispatched.
We'll they'll just tax the carrier, so it'll work out the same. Your
clients might find it convenient.
Oliver Townshend
Marco van de Voort
> We have a delphi application that needs to calculate the VAT for companies
> selling products from the United States to European countries. I figured the
> international background of many of this forum's participants would help
> anwer this question. Most of the products are educational products - e.g., a
> book, CD, paper
Note that "books" might sometimes fall in a special lower VAT category. Some
countries have multiple VAT levels.
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
are in the EU then you do not have to charge VAT *if* you display the
customer's VAT registration number on the invoice.
Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
news: 443ad608$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| We have a delphi application that needs to calculate the VAT for companies
| selling products from the United States to European countries. I figured
the
| international background of many of this forum's participants would help
| anwer this question. Most of the products are educational products - e.g.,
a
| book, CD, paper. Is the VAT tax based upon where the customers live? e.g.,
| charge 20% to customers in France, 17.5% for those in Britain, etc? Or is
it
| based upon the country from which the product is bought? (e.g., charge
same
| VAT tax to all customers based on sale of US product). Any help is greatly
| appreciated.
Speaking as someone who imports from the US into the EU.
The company sending the goods is not required to charge any tax at all on
the product, but must declare the value of the goods on the waybill. Certain
goods entering the UK are liable to import duty as well as VAT and this is
calculated on arrival in the country and collected for the Customs & Excise
by the carrier.
e.g.
I buy a photographic lens from B&H in New York.
They declare its value as $500.
C&E here will add 6.7% import duty.
C&E will then add 17.5% to the combined value plus import duty.
The shipper will then add a charge of Ł10-20 for handling the payment.
Unless I pay, I don't get the goods.
Rates of duty vary according to a European tariff available under the name
of TARIC
UK VAT rates are 5% for fuel, or 0% or 17.5% for everything except those
that are deemed to be VAT free. And, yes, there is a difference between 0%
and VAT free.
The only time a US company would be liable to collect VAT is in the case of
software downloads.
YMMV, IANAA or IANAL.
Joanna
--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
<alisdair.meredith@no-spam-splease@uk.renaultf1.com> a écrit dans le message
de news: 443b4479$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| If you bundle a free CD with your book, the whole item, both 'free' CD
| and book, become subject to 17.5% VAT.
Not strictly true, VAT was only added to the "value" of the CD, not the book
as well, but you are right in that VAT was due, just not on the whole
amount.
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
443b...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| > Different applies if the product is software you download from a U.S.
| > server: You only pay VAT if both the seller and the buyer are in the
| > same country (or both are in the EU).
|
| No, that is no longer the case.
Fortunately, there are still US companies that don't seem to know about
having to collect VAT on downloads :-)
Jim Rowell
>> AFAIK,
>> Companies in the U.S. and Canada do not collect tax for areas
>> outside of their own tax jurisdictions.
>
> They do now. They have been asked to collect VAT on behalf of EU
> countries, for example.
>
Bloody hell. That's the end of life on this planet (and not just as we know
it). <g>
--
Jim Rowell
John Herbster
"Ben Hochstrasser" wrote
> VAT is always charged per and by recipient country.
> Everything else would contradict free trade
> (ie a "punishment tax").
Your explanation of the distinction between punishing
the producer or the consumer is lost on me. Who gets
the tax - the producer's government or the consumer's
government? And are the persons who set the tax rate
elected or bribed by the people paying the tax? In other
words are there any direct checks and balances or is
the system more directly self regulating, with the taxing
entity setting the rate not too high nor too low, but rather
just at the right level to maximize tax income? <g>
Rene Tschaggelar
>
>> AFAIK,
>> Companies in the U.S. and Canada do not collect tax for areas outside of
>> their own tax jurisdictions.
>
>
> They do now. They have been asked to collect VAT on behalf of EU
> countries, for example.
Not doubting your facts, but it might not be that simple.
I'm selling to the EU and I have not (yet) been asked
to collect VAT for them. This would imply that
I had to do accounting on their behalf. Or letting
them have a look at my books. Neither of which
would be trivial, nor free. Not trivial, since
they'd possibly want to have standards fullfilled.
And not free, thus.
Rene
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
443ba447$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
| Not doubting your facts, but it might not be that simple.
| I'm selling to the EU and I have not (yet) been asked
| to collect VAT for them.
Rene, read my post. The only VAT a US company has to collect is for software
downloads or other, non-media sales.
Rene Tschaggelar
The tax is collected by the receiver country and it
stays there. So if a country charges 25% (no joke) it
charges independent of origin. It is not selfregulating.
Meaning with excess VAT tax, a goverment can indeed
choke the own economy. This because the consumers
with a limited budget (applies to all in a way)
spend less on other goods. The only advantage is that
less stuff is thrown away.
Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
Rene Tschaggelar
> "Rene Tschaggelar" <no...@none.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 443ba447$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> | Not doubting your facts, but it might not be that simple.
> | I'm selling to the EU and I have not (yet) been asked
> | to collect VAT for them.
>
> Rene, read my post. The only VAT a US company has to collect is for software
> downloads or other, non-media sales.
Joanna, I did read the post.
How is the VAT handed over to the EU goverment ?
On a free basis ? Accepted is every penny ?
We're not talking about a single download for
20$, but rather when the thing is scaled up to
the millions. I tend to doubt that to work
without strict control from the EU side,
especially since some EU countries charge
25%. That is a substantial amount money.
And since the VAT then is in Euro, but you
guys charge in USD, who has the exchange rate
risk ? The VAT is billed quarterly, IMO.
I wouldn't want to touch their VAT.
TObject
"Jan Derk" <no...@none.none> wrote in message news:443b606a$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Well that's one way to look at it. If your company is small enough you
> may fly under the radar for some time, but the truth of the matter is
> that you are breaking the law and some nasty surprises could lie ahead:
> http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/e-
> services/index_en.htm
I am not interested in "television broadcasting," can you please narrow it down
to the specific law paragraph that I am supposedly breaking?
That, and I am not a subject to European laws.
Jim Cooper
> Fortunately, there are still US companies that don't seem to know about
> having to collect VAT on downloads :-)
The bigger shareware portals know about it, as does VMWare, and even Borland,
IIRC discussions about this issue on this newsgroup some time back.
Jim Cooper
> Not doubting your facts, but it might not be that simple.
This is tax law, of course it's not simple :-)
> I'm selling to the EU and I have not (yet) been asked
> to collect VAT for them. This would imply that
> I had to do accounting on their behalf. Or letting
> them have a look at my books. Neither of which
> would be trivial, nor free.
Absolutely not, no. I don't know whether local laws require you to conform, or
whether it is voluntary. It might be worth checking with your accountant, though.
Jim Cooper
> And since the VAT then is in Euro
What makes you think that? :-) It's in Euros in some of the EU, and in native
currency in others. The UK still uses sterling, for example.
> I wouldn't want to touch their VAT.
I don;t blame you :-)
Jim Cooper
> That, and I am not a subject to European laws.
You may be subject to your local laws if there is an agreement with your local
lawmakers.
Rene Tschaggelar
>
>> And since the VAT then is in Euro
>
>
> What makes you think that? :-) It's in Euros in some of the EU, and in
> native currency in others. The UK still uses sterling, for example.
Oops, I keep on forgetting that. While some who should have kept their
old curreny (Italy for instance), didn't, the UK kept the pound. Was
there any advantage in that ? After having a look at the GBP/EUR
exchange rate, it appears to be rather stable.
Do you think the UK better of without the Euro ?
// the relation to Delphi becomes thin ...
Rene
John Herbster
"Ben Hochstrasser" <bhoc@tiscali123^H^H^H.ch> wrote
> Slowly, very very slowly I get the impression you're bs-ing me. ;-)
I was; but your answer and Rene's were educational, appreciated,
and not wasted on me. Thanks to both of you. Regards, JohnH
Jim Cooper
> While some who should have kept their
> old curreny (Italy for instance)
Why should they have done that? Everything was priced in 1000s of lire. At least
the prices are more sensible numbers now. Mind you, for a while Italians had
trouble remembering coins were actually worth something :-)
> Was there any advantage in that ?
Apparently some countries thought so. There seems no great consensus as to
whether or not that was a good idea.
The Poms got upset because they wouldn't be allowed to have a picture of the
queen on their money any more (there are rules about what can appear on Euro
notes etc).
> Do you think the UK better of without the Euro ?
No idea. Since it's not my country, it wouldn't count if I had an opinion :-)
Jolyon Smith
[TeamB]" <"on request"> says...
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:21:58 +1200, Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > Ultimately what information you need to capture at the suppliers end I
> > imagine will come down to the accounting requirements of the company
> > itself, which in turn may be driven by local taxation and/or accounting
> > rules.
>
> It is quite common to be charged VAT by the supplier and then to have
> to reclaim it from the government after you have proof of exportation.
>
>
If I read you correctly, this is a different scenario : i.e. "I buy
something from a local supplier which I then export".
That is a wholly different scenario than "I sell something to an
overseas customer", which was the OP's situation.
But, in either case ultimately it is the regulations of each country
that matter, which I believe is what I said. i.e. there's not
necessarily a "one size fits all" answer to be had.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
says...
>
> > Oh yes, it's true.
>
> No it's not. You need to read up on recent changes (12 - 18 months ago, IIRC).
If it -is- true then it changed nearer 12 than 18 months ago. It would
have been just over a year ago that I bought a pro rackmount dual-deck
DVD karaoke unit from a US supplier. I was charged neither UK VAT nor
US Sales Tax at time of purchase, just shipping.
I was however presented with a UK VAT invoice by the courier -AFTER-
delivery, on behalf of HM Customs and Excise.
<shrug>
Even after $250 shipping AND UK VAT, it was still cheaper than buying
the exact same unit from the UK distributor!
(yes - identical : it was fitted with an international switching power
supply and dual standard video output)
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
says...
> The Poms got upset because they wouldn't be allowed to have a picture of the
> queen on their money any more (there are rules about what can appear on Euro
> notes etc).
That was not the primary objection. That was the trivialised way that
any objections were represented in order to make objection to the idea
seem frivolous and petty.
The reason we (generally speaking) were against it was that it was not
just a question of changing bank notes and coinage, but also subsuming
the management of the economy. Interest rates and monetary policy would
have been set by the central european bank (CEB), not the Bank of
England. The CEB would have to set rates and policy to reflect the
economies of ALL states in monetary union.
The UK economy is/was in a far better state of health than many other
countries set to join monetary union, but would have been subjected to
the same set of controls as those overheating/underperforming economies.
> No idea. Since it's not my country, it wouldn't count if I had an opinion :-)
Opinions never "count", but they are always worth something.
:)
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
> I think you've stepped on a real hornets nest here. As Jim keeps trying to
> explain, the situation HAS changed significantly in the last 18 months, and
> many companies selling 'downloads' into the EU now *have* to collect taxes
> on behalf of those EU countries.
I know Jim was trying to help, but he has managed to confuse things.
The OP was talking about software to manage accounts for export sales of
PHYSICAL goods, not downloads of software.
Jim hasn't been at all clear that his "this is no longer true"
statements apply only to software downloads, which afaict aren't
directly relevant to the OP's question.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
says...
> e.g.
>
> I buy a photographic lens from B&H in New York.
> They declare its value as $500.
> C&E here will add 6.7% import duty.
> C&E will then add 17.5% to the combined value plus import duty.
> The shipper will then add a charge of £10-20 for handling the payment.
> Unless I pay, I don't get the goods.
Is that new - ? I've never had the last bit. I've always received my
duty+VAT+courier admin fee invoice AFTER the goods have been delivered,
sometimes weeks (sometimes NEVER! :D)
Also, you should take care to scrutinise the invoice from the carrier.
It is not unknown for even the "household names" to overstate the amount
of duty paid (and therefore overstate the VAT) and presumably to pocket
the difference. It happened to me.
It helps to know what duty rates apply to the goods you are importing.
Some couriers also have "Admin fees" 2 - 3 times greater than others!
--
Jolyon Smith
Jolyon Smith
This is getting waaaay OT, but I'm not sure what the distinction is you
are trying to make....
In article <Xns97A37F...@207.105.83.66>, bhoc@tiscali123^H^H^H.ch
says...
> If shipped via the
> classic "Snail Mail" you pay VAT, Customs and some other taxes which the
> postman collects upon delivery.
vs
> If shipped via a "3rd party carrier" like FedEx, UPS, DHL etc, all the tax
> collecting is done autonomously by the carrier
In the first case "the postman" = The Royal Mail = "the carrier"
So in both cases the tax collecting is done by the carrier.
The only difference in cost (apart from the shipping charges themselves,
of course) is the admin fee charged for the convenience of getting the
duty/VAT bill after delivery. This is typically a very small amount
(I've been charged as little as £3 and as much as £10).
And whilst I've never been fortunate enough to have a duty/VAT bill
overlooked by the post office, I had had quite a few goods delivered by
courier that for some reason were never followed by an invoice for
duty/VAT paid.
I can only think that they handle such a volume of packages that some
slip through the grabbing paws of HM C&E unmolested.
:D
Of course, this is all behind me now that I live in New Zealand. I have
yet to try and import anything (apart from my own belongings) but then
from what I can tell, the impetus to import personally may not be as
great - parallel/grey importing seems to be a legimitate distribution
channel here (by necessity I suppose - everything has to come a looooong
way to get here!)
And as a long time DVD collector, it was a bit of an eye-opener to find
that DVD players from the big manufacturers (Panasonic etc) thru the big
retailers are all multi-region "out of the box". Not modded, not
hacked, but supplied factory fresh, in sealed packaging, utterly region
free.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jim Cooper
> If it -is- true then it changed nearer 12 than 18 months ago.
I don't think so - it's been true for some time. Others have said it is only
true for downloads though, which makes sense. C&E can't collect anything by
themselves in that case.
Jim Cooper
> That was not the primary objection.
No, I know. I was being a bit silly :-)
> Opinions never "count", but they are always worth something.
Well, in this case it would be hot air (assuming I actually knew something about
the issue). My opinion doesn't count in any decision making process.
Jim Cooper
> I know Jim was trying to help, but he has managed to confuse things.
Yep :(
> Jim hasn't been at all clear that his "this is no longer true"
> statements apply only to software downloads
Apparently this is true - I bow to others knowledge in that regard.
Jan Nordén
>
> "Jan Derk" <no...@none.none> wrote in message
> news:443b606a$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> > Well that's one way to look at it. If your company is small enough
> > you may fly under the radar for some time, but the truth of the
> > matter is that you are breaking the law and some nasty surprises
> > could lie ahead:
>
> > http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_work
> > s/e- services/index_en.htm
>
> I am not interested in "television broadcasting," can you please
> narrow it down to the specific law paragraph that I am supposedly
> breaking?
>
> That, and I am not a subject to European laws.
You are however subject to any treaties entered by you govenrnment.
Upon ratification they effectively become US law.
--
TObject
"Jan Nordén" <jan.n...@borland.com> wrote in message news:443d5b35$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> You are however subject to any treaties entered by you govenrnment.
> Upon ratification they effectively become US law.
None of these treaties apply to this discussion.
Jolyon Smith
^H^H^H.ch says...
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
>
> > So in both cases the tax collecting is done by the carrier.
>
> on the spot while private carriers send you a bill.
Are you sure? HM C&E surely don't release the goods until the duty and
VAT are paid. i.e. duty and VAT are paid at entry.
The difference is that Royal Mail then don't release the goods to you
until you've re-imbursed them, where-as the other carriers simply
stipulate that the goods don't -belong- to you (despite their having
been delivered) until they have been re-imbursed.
My guess is that this is to streamline the carriers operations - their
infrastructure not being setup to cope with large amounts of packages
being stored until bills have been paid. They need to get the stuff
delivered and out of their system to make room for the next load.
I could be wrong - it's been a while since I paid an import bill from
The Royal Mail, but I'm pretty sure the payment I made was to Royal
Mail, not HM C&E.
--
Jolyon Smith
Jim Cooper
> None of these treaties apply to this discussion.
Have you checked to make sure?
Jim Cooper
> Are you sure? HM C&E surely don't release the goods until the duty and
> VAT are paid. i.e. duty and VAT are paid at entry.
I've had it happen both ways in years past. I have had bills later from C&E (ie
after I got the goods), and I've had to pay Royal Mail. This was some time back
though.
TObject
"Jim Cooper" <jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk> wrote in message news:443e34e0$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> None of these treaties apply to this discussion.
> Have you checked to make sure?
Absolutely.
Now, can you admit, that you were wrong?
Jim Cooper
> Now, can you admit, that you were wrong?
What about?
chewy
wrote:
>
>> That was not the primary objection.
>
>No, I know. I was being a bit silly :-)
Your silliness is infectious! No wonder I've gotten sillier! ;o)
TDaniel
If we are exporting from one EU country to another EU country we need to provide a valid VAT registration number of the customer. Then we can set VAT rate to 0%. Check this out:
http://www.europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/vies/en/vieshome.htm
You can automate this by using their webservice (need D2006), and for some countries you even get the coordinates of the customer. Or you can use TWebBrowser and provide the proper URL with paramaters to show the result. Financial directors love this!
hth
TDaniel
Jim Cooper
> Your silliness is infectious! No wonder I've gotten sillier! ;o)
I'm not sure I can take all the blame :-)
Robert Small
How do you get the "coordinates of the customer"?
Based on their email address?
Given that I reside in Australia, have a .com email address (which
implies USA), managed by a company located in the UK, and with a
server physically located in Colorado, USA, where would it think I
lived?
--
Bob Small