Discord surfaces in wake of Inprise restructuring
Brad Clarke
http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
LarryC
developemnt products make sense, the loss of another 20% staff (190 of 950)
and this blurb does not bode well. Let's hope this is the end of slide and
we will see a D4 SP3 soon.
Brad Clarke <bgcl...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:794fes$dp...@forums.borland.com...
Fernand Raynaud
what some of us here have been worried about. When we raised the issues, we
were maligned by the enthusiasts, as if our concerns were a form of
betrayal. There is little satisfaction in being right in these cases.
With C4 due any day, and with all the language products apparently under the
new potentially sacrifical division, it's going to be harder yet to convince
clients that this is a viable development tack. This is tragic, as C4 had
the potential to be a formidable and mainstream tool.
It's pretty clear that nothing will change until Del is out. There is
perhaps hope that some third party will buy up the Borland.com division, so
Del can concentrate on his enterprise dreams without sinking the language
legacy. But who would buy something that the owners themselves, for lack of
ability, mistakenly label as a losing proposition?
Fernand
LarryC wrote in message <794lnb$dp...@forums.borland.com>...
Roger Arnesen
to transform itself into a major enterprise software company, according to
Del Yocam, Inprise chairman and CEO. "
How on earth does he get away with it????
Pay me a zillion dollars a year, and I will *gladly* come to Inprise and be
silly too.
Roger
James E. Presley
>There is little satisfaction in being right in these cases.<
>There is perhaps hope that some third party will buy up the Borland.com division<
Yes. This seems to be what Del wants too. He's created a separate legal
entity ripe for the plucking with a "respected" name and some great
assets. Del is getting ready to sell the family jewels. I hope a big
Euro firm buys Borland. At lease those guys understand Pascal is legit.
Frank
>http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
>"They've put all the wood under the Java/CORBA fire
That is the tough point, which everyone has to face, big consequences from
Java trend. Java was introduced for multiplatform programming and to weaken
MS. But why should there be another dominating OS for next 10 ... years ? At
least Java
is no threat for MS Windows because Java runs on Windows. On the contrary,
Windows even profits from Java programs because there is an additional flood
of java programs from developers coming from other OSs. MS will not loose by
price formation or quality of OS ( would MS be so weak and stupid ??). Based
on that,
the end of Delphi can not result from the underlying OS.
Delphi programs run faster than Java programs because there is no virtual
machine.
MS does not abandon VisualC++ for Java , Delphi programming is easier
learnt than VisualC++ , why is there such a fear of Java ( e.g. syntax a++;
++a; <g> ) ?
What will happen faster ? Java beats all same level programming languages in
the world or a next generation language (on top of Java, C++, Delphi, ...)
comes up ?
Frank
Jack V. Johnson
from Inprise and be silly. For the full zillion a year, I'll figure
out some way to bring Del with me!
Now _there's_ a cause I bet folks would contribute to!
Jack
Joe C. Hecht
>
> You may have already seen this:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
First: let me say "I didn't do it!"...
Second: For a $90 million asking price, even I might be interested!
Joe
--
Joe C. Hecht
http://home1.gte.net/joehecht/index.htm
Jonathan Hendry
Actually, I thought he was trying to jump on the .com bandwagon, thus
boosting their stock. They're an Internet Play! Whooo. Drive that
stock right up to $300/share.
Unfortunately, they announced it along with the layoffs, blowing it.
They could spin off Borland.com, retaining ownership of most of it,
but floating some of it in an IPO. Thus, Inprise would have one
stock symbol, INPR, but Borland.com would have its own, probably
back to the old BORL.
Blake McNeill
Blake
Jack V. Johnson wrote in message <36b6061f....@forums.inprise.com>...
Fernand Raynaud
furniture thrown in, thus realizing an 8 figure Enterprise deal, a major
quarterly profit, and raising the Inprise stock for a quick sell of his
shares, while he moves to Atherton. You heard it here first!
All this goes to show that Beverage Executives should stick to what they
know, like New Coke and Macintoshes<g>. Give me a hopeless nerd over a
hopeless dork any day.
Fernand
p.s. It also goes to show there is no such thing as "can't get any worse
than this...". Remember, before you file for divorce or kill yourself. Even
Philippe K. now seems comparatively brilliant. At least he was into software
and computers, and he wasn't trying to hawk BoutiqueWare in a market that's
getting overrun with Linux freeware and REALLY big competitors. Doh.
Charlie Calvert
Fernand Raynaud wrote in message <794nej$e9...@forums.borland.com>...
>The issues in the article, and the continuing slumps and reorgs, is exactly
>what some of us here have been worried about. When we raised the issues, we
>were maligned by the enthusiasts, as if our concerns were a form of
Fernand,
All kinds of things get published in the press. The mere fact that something
appears in print does not make it right. This article is based primarily on
the statements of one former employee. Personally, if I were the editor of a
paper and someone came to me and said that he was going to print with an
article on the basis of comments from one former employee, I would tell him
or her that they were working too hard and should probably go home early and
get some rest.
The truth here is that the borland.com and Inprise sides of the corporation
made about the same amounts of money last year. They are both equally viable
businesses. Delphi is a very successful tool, and there is no reason to
assume that it will not remain so into the indefinite future. JBuilder is an
up and coming tool, and should gain in market share over the coming years.
CBuilder does well, but should be doing even better, so there is hope that
it will grow too. InterBase has been growing in leaps and bounds over the
last few years, with the likely prospect that it will continue to grow.
So there is no reason to panic. Borland.com is a viable business with
prospects of doing quite well. Inprise may have a chance of growing faster
than borland.com, but both divisions should be able to succeed.
Of course, I am not claiming that there is no truth to the article. Finding
out that morale is not high in a company that has announced 20 percent lay
offs is not really a big surprise. Ok, some folks aren't happy. Big
surprise. But there is only so much that you can deduce from that fact.
The fundamental and basic fact here is simply that Borland is back, and that
it will pursue the developer market. That is good news to Borland's
developer customers, and to the employees at Borland who love developer
products.
- Charlie Calvert
Borland Developer Relations
dintersimone
> With C4 due any day, and with all the language products apparently under the
> new potentially sacrifical division, it's going to be harder yet to convince
> clients that this is a viable development tack. This is tragic, as C4 had
> the potential to be a formidable and mainstream tool.
C4 will do very well - it is an awesome C++ product.
> It's pretty clear that nothing will change until Del is out. There is
> perhaps hope that some third party will buy up the Borland.com division, so
> Del can concentrate on his enterprise dreams without sinking the language
> legacy. But who would buy something that the owners themselves, for lack of
> ability, mistakenly label as a losing proposition?
there are 2 divisions - each one is responsible for it's business.
--
David Intersimone "david i"
Director, Developer Relations
Inprise Corporation, Borland and VisiBroker products
See you at the 10th Annual Inprise Conference
Philadelphia, July 17-21, 1999
Michael Lehrman
> You may have already seen this:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
It is easy to determine the credibility of the above article, by the
answering the following question. Which division will be responsible for
the development of JBuilder? It has not been clear, so far.
ML
michael peirce
I'm not impressed by employers who consider wacking out their own employees an
'agressive and important' move. Del could have trimmed his own big fat salary
or sold some of his furniture. I'm totally unimpressed by that guy. He should
be fired and sentenced to repeat 'the enterprise is a crock' one million
times. But then, his Golden Parachute would drag the rest of the company down
with him.
cordially
michael peirce
LarryC wrote:
> No I had not seen that. While bringing back borland and focusing it on
> developemnt products make sense, the loss of another 20% staff (190 of 950)
> and this blurb does not bode well. Let's hope this is the end of slide and
> we will see a D4 SP3 soon.
> Brad Clarke <bgcl...@iname.com> wrote in message
> news:794fes$dp...@forums.borland.com...
michael peirce
I liked ole Philippe! Was he a genius? Maybe not. But daggone it he had
style. And when he was there, Borland was a player. Borland practically
invented C++ and is re-inventing it now. I'm aware of his flaws too, but
compared to Del - well Del can't even play the sax!
cordially
michael peirce
G. Bradley MacDonald
as your reply to the article was the most common sense - I thought I would
ask you a question. I agree with your comment about the article being based
on one (or a few) ex-employee's and how far can you trust their comments. I
also understand that people do not like change - hence the lower morale (and
probably for other reasons I don't know about).
However, there was another post in this thread that asked the question of
who will be designing and developing the JBuilder tool. I think that this
is a very valid question. I can see political and marketing reasons why Del
and the management team would want the JBuilder to have the Inprise logo as
opposed to the Borland logo. What I would like to know is if the Borland
group is going to be doing the actual developing?? Whether it is stamped
with the Inprise logo or the Borland logo is irrelavent to me. However, if
the two groups are seperated in terms of developing the tools - that would
be a concern to me. It would signify a more fundamental seperation of the
two divisions then I would be comfortable with. (but who really cares what
makes me comfortable <g>)
I look forward to a reply to this note.
Bradley MacDonald.
tmiller
at the bottom of the pages, not the top. I looked
at the web site last night and it seems that
you have dropped Delphi C/S and JBuilder C/S.
I have long been a supporter and will continue
to be, but for the first time I am concerned
about the situation.
Inprise reminds me of another company I did
business with, AST. Another company I was with
sold about $200,000 worth of AST hardware a year
when AST first started selling computers. The
small companies (like the one I was involved
with) made the company a success. Then when
they where a success, they started making it
difficult for small companies to sell their
products. Where is AST now. I think Delphi,
C++ Builder, and JBuilder are much like the
small market that AST abandoned and went
after the more upscale larger chains to sell
their products (Enterprise solutions). It's
quite clear Del is trying to distance the
enterprise Division from the Borland Division.
Even put the spin on that the Enterprise division
made a profit.
Anyone know someone at high places at IBM or
Oracle, please talk them into buying the Borland
division!!
> See you at the 10th Annual Inprise Conference
> Philadelphia, July 17-21, 1999
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Application FrameWork
BSS VCL Pack
Rick Rogers (TeamB)
wrote:
> All of a sudden, I notice Delphi is always
> at the bottom of the pages, not the top.
They move products to the top of the pages when new releases occur.
C++Builder 4 will be released very soon, which explains its current
prominence on the website.
--
Rick Rogers (TeamB) | Fenestra Technologies
http://www.fenestra.com/
Philippe Ranger
employees an
'agressive and important' move. Del could have trimmed his own big fat
salary
or sold some of his furniture.
<<
Let's put it this way. If your stock is in the dumps year-in, year-out, and
your products are hard to move because higher-ups have little faith in the
company's future, and revenues are down too, the CEO's taking a $1 salary
for the next two years is as good a message to send, as cutting 20% of the
workforce is a bad message to send.
Now, guess which message Mr. Yocam chose to send.
PhR
Philippe Ranger
Oracle, please talk them into buying the Borland
division!!
<<
Why bother Oracle? Just offer the division as a Work Therapy Center to the
nearest insane asylum, it'll have more of a future than with the Godhead out
there.
PhR
Philippe Ranger
it he had style.
<<
Yeah. Also a habit of buying everything around, useful or not. Which led to
buying Ashton-Tate, and putting Borland in a worse position, by 1995, than
it was in, in 1985. This is the kind of style best admired from behind a
wire fence.
PhR
Fernand Raynaud
Phil and Del. Personally I tend to side with the patients, not the guards.
The patients have more style. The guards are just fooling themselves.
Besides, with a few notable exceptions, they're boring. Del seemed so sane
at first. And look what he be doin'!
Fernand
Philippe Ranger <.> wrote in message <79798h$gg...@forums.borland.com>...
John Kaster
tool.
John Kaster
>answering the following question. Which division will be responsible for
>the development of JBuilder? It has not been clear, so far.
G. Bradley MacDonald
Charlie Calvert
Borland, since it is Borland's mission to pursue the developer market.
JBuilder is a difficult case, because its ties to San Mateo (Inprise) are
very strong. There is a natural affinity between JBuilder and CORBA in
particular, and JBuilder and Enterprise development in general. As a result,
the bonds that tie JBuilder to Inprise will be stronger than the bonds that
tie Delphi and CBuilder to Inprise.
I'm deliberately being a bit vague here, and I do not mean to imply that
Delphi and CBuilder will not have strong support for Enterprise technologies
such as Corba. For instance, if you look at the recently released CBuilder
4, you will find that it has great support for Corba. Enhanced CORBA support
is one of the major new features of CBuilder 4.
I think that it is possible that some custom JBuilder development or add ons
could possibly be built by the Enterprise group. I'm not saying that is
going to happen, in fact I'm not saying anything specific about the
relationship between JBuilder and Inprise. I'm only giving you the general
sense that JBuilder is to some degree a special case, and that it will have
fairly strong ties to Inprise. Enterprise developers like JBuilder, and they
want tools like JBuilder for AppServer. I have heard nothing to imply that
this facet of JBuilder will not continue to be enhanced, and to the degree
that working closely with Inprise will help achieve that goal, then I expect
a close relationship between JBuilder and the Inprise Enterprise folks to
continue.
However, having said all that, I want to emphasize that JBuilder is a
developer tool, and it belongs with, and will in fact be part of, Borland.
The key thing to grasp is that Borland is about developers and developer
tools, and JBuilder is a developer tool, so it is obvious where it belongs.
This does not mean that we don't want it to continue to play a strong roll
in Enterprise development, only that the team that builds the compiler and
IDE are going to be part of Borland.
- Charlie Calvert
Borland Developer Relations
G. Bradley MacDonald wrote in message <79705j$ft...@forums.borland.com>...
Inprise Newsgroup Admin
>
> You may have already seen this:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
Yes I saw it. That business about "flagging employee morale" is a
crock of bull. This split is good because those of us who work with
developers now have a company behind us that will do the same. That's
good for *my* morale.
Ben
--
Inprise Newsgroup Sysop
newsg...@inprise.com
**
Inprise Newsgroup Guidelines
http://www.inprise.com/newsgroups/guide.html
Michael Lehrman
> borland.com.
What is, then, JBuilder for Application Server?
ML
Joe C. Hecht
>
> Brad Clarke wrote:
> >
> > You may have already seen this:
> >
> > http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?990129.ecinprise2.htm
>
> Yes I saw it. That business about "flagging employee morale" is a
> crock of bull. This split is good because those of us who work with
> developers now have a company behind us that will do the same. That's
> good for *my* morale.
Are your saying that "Borland DOT com" is a separate company
than Inprise, and that previous to the split, that Inprise
was not behind you?
Joe C. Hecht
Will ya please quit following me around in
this forum???
Just put me in your kill file... ok???
John Kaster
just like Oracle sells JDeveloper, which is basically an older version of
JBuilder pro.
Blake McNeill
thinks he is so good why doesn't he take the whole thing in stocks.
Inprise/Borland under his great leadership would reward him handsomely with
vast increases in stock values if he was truly worth that much. I think
even Del knows he isn't that good, so he takes the cash and runs. Cutting
people is a bad thing to do. The software business is an intellectual
business and the loss of people represents a net loss of intellect to a
company. Perhaps Del is planning a bonus for himself and needed to allocate
the funds from somewhere, and 20 employees equaled about the right number.
I was never really sold on Del and now I'm finding myself even less keen on
him. Since Inprise hasn't exactly set the world on fire, I think Del should
be the one taking the cut and not the number of employees. You want the big
bucks Del, you take the responsibility for the success of the company, or
lack thereof with a cut in YOUR pay(with your salary, you could easily take
the hit for 20 employees and not notice much of a change). If you can't
handle that, then step down and let someone else take a run at it who is
responsible enough to take ownership of their management. This isn't your
golden little cow to milk till its dry. Borland is much bigger then you, it
has had success and growth in its history.
One question that no one wants to answer is just where are these cuts going
to occur? R&D, development, marketing, tech support, management, Del's
golfing buddies, or where? When will we know?
Just so we can get the total truth out there, does anyone know exactly how
much Del was paid for each of the last two years and the form of
payment(cash/stocks etc)? I will also look into this and if need be post
the results. I know that one of our investment analysis gave me the number
for profit/salary for Inprise management and I almost fainted and sold our
Inprise stock immediately(Del was the boulder that crushed those numbers).
In retrospect I should have, but being an old developer I believe in the
development teams at Borland and kept them. I still believe in the
development teams as I see the products they are producing, but Del's
management is very much lacking for its price and scares me, as I'm sure it
does alot of other investors. Oh please let Del office be somewhere other
then Scotts Valley with the new corporate structure.
Blake
Philippe Ranger <.> wrote in message <79798g$gg...@forums.borland.com>...
Blake McNeill
20% which is 190 employees. Nice bonus there Del, and a nice drain on
talent. Seen any limousines from Microsoft hanging around Scotts Valley
lately, my guess is you will. I doubt the arrangement covers employees who
are let go, or who otherwise take the package and run.
Blake
Blake McNeill wrote in message <798pi2$he...@forums.borland.com>...
Blake McNeill
In the San Jose Mercury News, 21 April 98, Section C page 1
BORLAND Paid CEO $7.82 million
" Borland International Inc. paid Chairman and Chief Executive Delbert
Yocam $7.82 million last year as he helped boost the company's stock
price and report a profit in recent quarters. Yocam, 54, a former Apple
Computer Inc. executive, received $110,769 in salary, a signing bonus or
3.86 million and a $3.85 million payment mainly to help him buy a house,
according to the Scotts Valley company's annual proxy filing with theSEC.
"
So this would be 1997. We still need 1998 to see if his salary has gone up
or down.
Blake
Barry Mossman
Is Delphi/400 a "developer tool" too (please say yes). ,,,... sigh, I guess
that we are in limbo land.
In the light of the new openness can you comment on this troubled product. I
say troubled as the throughput in the Delphi/400 newsgroup is almost static,
and Inprise are clearly not investing in the product.
They declined to include the TCIS 5250 emulation component with the Delphi 4
release, although TCIS (authors of the 400 part of Delphi/400) have been
bundling this capability with their own offering for some time now. The 5250
emulation capability is an essential element to enable an AS/400 shop to
migrate from heritage systems to client server ones.
I cannot understand why Inprise have let down their maintenance paying
customers in this way. We have man years worth of heritage systems, and the
capability to blend in the new c/s facilities is essential. It just will not
work if we can only employ the tool in green fields applications. If Inprise
were in any way proficient in their Enterprise fantasy, they would
understand this.
Barry Mossman
Roger Arnesen
Joe C. Hecht wrote in message <36B7B4...@gte.net>...
>Are your saying that "Borland DOT com" is a separate company
>than Inprise, and that previous to the split, that Inprise
>was not behind you?
Why give them a hard time for spending time here, then go off and ask them
questions you know the answer to?
Roger
Joe C. Hecht
> I guess he must get attracted to your great cloud of negativity.
If this restructure actually makes a difference, I will be
the most positive guy here in the newsgroups. Dont get me
wrong. I *love* the reported direction, and am eagerly
awaiting the ports 'O call.
But I am hesitant. Is this the real Macoy we have all been
praying for, or is this just pretty packaging for yet another
restructure/layoff?
I love Borland, and I ***dearly*** love my old comrads (although
sometimes it may be hard for the general public to tell).
Lets hope these great Leaders, Managers, Engineers and
Interns can keep the enthusiasm going, the ideas comming,
the information flowing, and the products rolling out the
door!!!
All I have been jabbing for around here is to hear news
of some concete plans that are rolling out. So far, it
all sounds very suspisious to me.
Over the next few days/weeks, it is reported that we will
hear of the layoff. I feel for the people going out, and
the folks that stay. Lets hope they make it a party instead
of a funeral, and keep the enthusiasm going! I hope the
departing employees stay enthusiastic as well, right up to
the end.
I also hope (for the sake of the company) Dell takes a
massive pay cut for the *privilage* (and I mean that)
to work at Borland - why not... everyone else does<g>.
So now its Wednesday... Lets have some enthusisam from
the folks at Borland DOT com!
Now, where is the beef????
Mark Smith (UK)
I see no mention of the Enterprise-level stuff ion the borland.com online
shop. What's the story?
Regards
Mark Smith
London
UK
rrk
wrote:
>Roger,
>
>Will ya please quit following me around in
>this forum???
>
>Just put me in your kill file... ok???
>
>Joe
>--
>Joe C. Hecht
>http://home1.gte.net/joehecht/index.htm
The pot just called the kettle black.
<yawn>
Let me get some more coffee.
John Kaster
MIDAS is mentioned on there, and it is definitely an Enterprise-level
solution (and below). Also, if you go to the C++ Builder 4 information,
there's also Enterprise solutions talked about there. We still sell the
"Enterprise" SKUs.
As I have stated publicly and privately, I see no difference between
"Enterprise" developers and "Borland" developers. They're all developers,
and they all want the same kinds of things in their tools, like better
debugging, automation, extensibility, more examples, better performance,
support for new technology ...
About the only thing that distinguishes "Enterprise" developers is the size
of the company they work for, evidently. If we continue to make our
products incredibly more productive than any competitors product by making
complex things simple and providing good support, we will continue to grow
in the Enterprise space.
Mark Smith (UK)
Thx for the reply. The updates to the product list on the ecommerce pages
shows you are selling the enterprise stuff over the web. I'm looking forward
to seeing this list expand over time.
Regards
Mark Smith
London UK
John Kaster wrote in message <79a1qf$ip...@forums.borland.com>...
Inprise Newsgroup Admin
> Are your saying that "Borland DOT com" is a separate company
> than Inprise,
No, I thought it was obvious from the press release and from
everything we have been saying here for a week that borland.com is a
division of Inprise Corporation. Let me repeat that, borland.com is a
division of Inprise Corporation.
> and that previous to the split, that Inprise
> was not behind you?
Where have you been, Joe? Inprise's focus is on the enterprise, not
the small developer. I thought that was clear from the press releases
that Inprise/Borland has been putting out for the last year or so. The
Inprise division of Inprise Corporation will continue that focus while
borland.com will focus on developers.
Inprise Newsgroup Admin
> If this restructure actually makes a difference, I will be
> the most positive guy here in the newsgroups. Dont get me
> wrong. I *love* the reported direction, and am eagerly
> awaiting the ports 'O call.
How could we not get you wrong? All you have been doing for the last
week is spreading your brand of skepticism and negativity.
> But I am hesitant. Is this the real Macoy we have all been
> praying for, or is this just pretty packaging for yet another
> restructure/layoff?
Worried about your job? Oh, that's right, you don't work here.
> I love Borland, and I ***dearly*** love my old comrads (although
> sometimes it may be hard for the general public to tell).
No, it's *impossible* to tell. You jump on us at every opportunity and
spread your bitterness and negativity. You continue to ask questions,
to which you very well know the answers, as though you were uncovering
some sort of secret conspiracy.
...
> All I have been jabbing for around here is to hear news
> of some concete plans that are rolling out. So far, it
> all sounds very suspisious to me.
To tell you the truth, I am not much concerned how it sounds to *you*.
You have demonstrated that you will find fault and pick nits no matter
what we say. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
...
> So now its Wednesday... Lets have some enthusisam from
> the folks at Borland DOT com!
We should show you our enthusiams so that you can make nasty remarks
about it? Sure.
> Now, where is the beef????
You're the one beefing, why don't you tell me?
Philippe Ranger
Thanks for the post. How about options?
PhR
Joe C. Hecht
[A very professional and uplifting response]
Well, it appears your enthusiam left as quick as it came.
Keep your chin up Ben! If you truly believe, my remarks
will not get ya down!
Joe C. Hecht
>
> Joe C. Hecht wrote:
>
> > Are your saying that "Borland DOT com" is a separate company
> > than Inprise,
>
> No, I thought it was obvious from the press release and from
> everything we have been saying here for a week that borland.com is a
> division of Inprise Corporation. Let me repeat that, borland.com is a
> division of Inprise Corporation.
Then lets be carefull about calling it another company.
> > and that previous to the split, that Inprise
> > was not behind you?
>
> Where have you been, Joe? Inprise's focus is on the enterprise, not
> the small developer. I thought that was clear from the press releases
> that Inprise/Borland has been putting out for the last year or so. The
> Inprise division of Inprise Corporation will continue that focus while
> borland.com will focus on developers.
Im pointing out a negitive statement. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
Sure, I know the focus was on the enterprise, but the statement seemed
to say "Inprise was not behind what ever it was you guys where doing,
but now thats all changed" (and I find that very hard to believe).
What ever your doing, the public perception should be that the company
is indeed backing you.
Jonathan W Hendry
> >
> > Joe C. Hecht wrote:
> >
> > > Are your saying that "Borland DOT com" is a separate company
> > > than Inprise,
> >
> > No, I thought it was obvious from the press release and from
> > everything we have been saying here for a week that borland.com is a
> > division of Inprise Corporation. Let me repeat that, borland.com is a
> > division of Inprise Corporation.
> Then lets be carefull about calling it another company.
Being a division of Inprise doesn't mean Borland.com can't be
a company in itself.
WebTV is a company, but it's a division of Microsoft.
United Technologies is made up of several huge companies, yet
each is a division of United Technologies.
A typical large bank is made up of dozens or hundreds of
companies owned by an umbrella holding company. There are
regulations which prevent a bank from doing certain things,
but another company, owned by the bank's parent holding
company, *can* do those things. For example, securities
trading.
Joe C. Hecht
True, but those instances seem to be true sperate divisions
with there own seperate books, shares, and corporate
identity. From what I gather, Borland DOT Com is an
internal division. A line drawn in the sand so to speak.
Not that there is anything wrong with that (in fact, it
most likly is an asset), but I just want to be clear about
whats going on (and whats wrong with that).
Jonathan W Hendry
Sort of. They tend not to have separate shares, or else
all the shares (which could be a single share) are held
by the parent. For instance, you can't buy stock in
Otis Elevator or First Chicago Capital Markets. You
can only buy stock in their owners, United Technologies
(UTX) and Bank One (ONE)
The corporate identity is iffy. I work for First Chicago,
and there's a great deal of blurring between the organizations.
(I Am Not A Lawyer, don't take this as some precise legal
admission!) They're mostly treated as departments. There
are some more individualistic divisions, like our First
USA credit card operation.
Otis, on the other hand, has a stronger individual identity.
Yet, if you're working at one UTX company, it's relatively
easy to transfer into another, for example, from Otis to
Carrier.
Otis has its own internal subdivisions, its international
branches, which tend to be companies in their own right. These,
no doubt, are more like the companies that make up a bank.
> From what I gather, Borland DOT Com is an
> internal division. A line drawn in the sand so to speak.
> Not that there is anything wrong with that (in fact, it
> most likly is an asset), but I just want to be clear about
> whats going on (and whats wrong with that).
True. It's hard to tell from outside. Practically speaking,
it doesn't really matter, since Inprise would have significant
control either way. Kind of like the relationship between
Apple and FileMaker/Claris. They spun off Claris
to write applications, while retaining ownership. They later
took back all the applications except for FileMaker, and
Claris took on the name of its only remaining product.
Obviously, a big part was trying to jump on the net stock
boom. They wouldn't mind if they hit $300/share just by
setting up a division. They should build up Borland.com,
work up traffic and page views, and IPO it as a "tracking stock".
Joe C. Hecht
The length of my hair is riding on this <g>
--
Inprise Newsgroup Admin
> True, but those instances seem to be true sperate divisions
> with there own seperate books, shares, and corporate
> identity.
Borland.com *will* have it's own books and corporate identity. Our
stock remains Inprise stock.
Steve Tyrakowski
> True, but those instances seem to be true sperate divisions
> with there own seperate books, shares, and corporate
> identity.
>
Foods, Divisions were not distinct legal entities, although they
generally had their own books, but income tax reporting would only be
done at the main corporate level. OTOH, a subsidiary (even wholly
owned subsidiaries) would normally have their own stock, and they would
file their own income tax returns since they were distinct legal
entities.
Steve Tyrakowski
Material Fellow
I heard that he was going to get a bonus of $1.7 million to build a
garage onto the $3.5 million house and then there would be more for
landscaping too.
Hope he doesn't ask for a pool. May need to buy the house next door and
tear it down to get room.
jim
Joe C. Hecht
>
> "Joe C. Hecht" <joeh...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >>Good explanation! Thanks!
> >>
> >>The length of my hair is riding on this <g>
> make an ass of ourselves :)
>
> Brad
ROFLOL!
I guess I am only half as*ed sometimes!
Joe
Joe C. Hecht
>
> Joe C. Hecht wrote:
>
> > True, but those instances seem to be true sperate divisions
> > with there own seperate books, shares, and corporate
> > identity.
>
> stock remains Inprise stock.
Excellent.
Is there to be a new logo?
Motto? (I think I heard a quote somewhere)???
Fernand Raynaud
investors should be realizing he's not even a "paradigm" man, barely a "warm
fuzzy" salesman. I frankly don't see how on earth he's still there. Why
hasn't the board canned him?
Fernand
Philippe Ranger <.> wrote in message <79a7rr$j8...@forums.borland.com>...
>Blake: >>
>In the San Jose Mercury News, 21 April 98, Section C page 1
>
>BORLAND Paid CEO $7.82 million
>Thanks for the post. How about options?
>
jeff
> Borland.com *will* have it's own books and corporate identity. Our
> stock remains Inprise stock.
>
>
Do you see that changing in the future? A totally spin off from Inprise?
--
XXX...@rapfire.net
XXXjf...@saintfrancis.com
http://www.rapfire.net/~jeff
dintersimone
> Is there to be a new logo?
there is a new logo - it's on the home page of www.borland.com - it is
the letters borland.com in a bold font.
> Motto? (I think I heard a quote somewhere)???
don't know about a motto - will have to think of one. we do have a
mission statement - "enhance the productivity of independent and
corporate developers."
--
David Intersimone "david i"
Director, Developer Relations
Inprise Corporation, Borland and VisiBroker products
See you at the 10th Annual Inprise Conference
Philadelphia, July 17-21, 1999
dintersimone
> All of a sudden, I notice Delphi is always
> at the bottom of the pages, not the top. I looked
> at the web site last night and it seems that
> you have dropped Delphi C/S and JBuilder C/S.
please don't read anything into anything, especially size or placement
of products. it has been fun to watch, for years now, these discussions
in response to where products are placed, which product has new
features, which product came out when, etc. if you take a longer view
(say 10 years or so) you'll see that all of our developer products move
along at a regular pace and get the latest and greatest things.
Taz Higgins
> "Joe C. Hecht" wrote:
> > Is there to be a new logo?
>
> there is a new logo - it's on the home page of www.borland.com - it is
> the letters borland.com in a bold font.
>
> > Motto? (I think I heard a quote somewhere)???
How about
"Borland builds the best"
Taz Higgins...
Roger Arnesen
<GG>
Roger
Taz Higgins wrote in message ...
Joe C. Hecht
>
> "Joe C. Hecht" wrote:
> > Is there to be a new logo?
>
> there is a new logo - it's on the home page of www.borland.com - it is
> the letters borland.com in a bold font.
oh... No cute little symbol :(
How about a little sound like Intel and AT&T have?