Tiburon w/RAD Studio 2009?
HS
Studio 2009 (D2009 .Net, D2009 Win32 & C++ Builder), or if indeed there will
be a RAD Studio product line in the future?
Personally I find it quite useful to have both D2007 Win32 + .Net in the
same IDE. Quite a few of our projects span classic Win32 API and ASP.Net.
Whereas we never use C++ in the mix.
HS
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
"HS" <nos...@as.as> wrote in message news:4886...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Just wondering whether Tiburon will be released as part
> of the full RAD Studio 2009
Tiburon *is* the full RAD Studio. Delphi and C++Builder are the Studio IDE,
just with the other personalities removed.
Gambit
Gil
CGS 2007 3 personalities
CGS 2008 2 personalities
CGS 2009 1 personalities
CGS 2010 ?
:-|
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
"Gil" <not...@spam.org> wrote in message
news:48865974$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
That is completely wrong.
BDS/CGS = IDE with 3 personalities included:
Delphi Win32
Delphi.NET
C++
(there was never a 4th personality, why do you think there was one?)
Delphi Win32 200x = IDE with only the Delphi Win32 personality included
Delphi.NET 200x = IDE with only the Delphi.NET personality included
C++Builder Win32 200x = IDE with only the C++ personality included
There is only one IDE for all of them. It is the shipped personalities that
make one product different from another.
Gambit
Ray Porter
BDS 2006 installed as 4 personalities. The one you're leaving out is
C#Builder.
Ray Porter
"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" <no....@no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:48869330$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
VT Venkatesh
>
> There is only one IDE for all of them. It is the shipped personalities that
> make one product different from another.
>
>
> Gambit
>
>
CG has yet to announce .net road map.Hence we don't know what all will
be included in Tiburon.None of the blogs on Tiburon mentions any thing
about this.
Venkatesh
HS
Delphi 2009 Win32.
So I guess what I meant was:
Will D2009 Win32, .Net and C++ Builder be part of the Tiburón release?
(somehow "personalities" seems an odd word for a computer language &
platform)
HS
"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" <no....@no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:488645a7$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Rick Carter
>Delphi 2009 Win32.
If you were looking at the latest roadmap, how did you miss all the
references to C++Builder?
http://dn.codegear.com/article/36620
>So I guess what I meant was:
>Will D2009 Win32, .Net and C++ Builder be part of the Tiburón release?
In the absence of any other announcement, I think the plan is, same as the
current version, to first release the Win32 versions of Delphi and C++,
then some months later to release the full studio product, which would
include everything in the two Win32 releases, plus Delphi for .NET.
I think it's pretty clear the Studio product will be continued, but not
much has been announced about just what will be in the next version of
Delphi for .NET. There's supposed to be a separate roadmap coming "real
soon now" to discuss that.
Rick Carter
cart...@despammed.com
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com
HS
> references to C++Builder?
You're right - I was referring to an old version.
Anyway, I guess it says it right here:
"...but it is now planned that Tiburón will be a single release including
Delphi and C++Builder."
The only unclear aspect would be the inclusion of D2009 .Net.
HS
"Rick Carter" <cart...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:4886...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Brion L. Webster
>
>"Gil" <not...@spam.org> wrote...
>
>>That is BDS 2006 4 personalities
>>CGS 2007 3 personalities
>>CGS 2008 2 personalities
>>CGS 2009 1 personalities
>>CGS 2010 ?
>
>That is completely wrong.
>
>BDS/CGS = IDE with 3 personalities included:
> Delphi Win32
> Delphi.NET
> C++
> (there was never a 4th personality, why do you think there was one?)
Gil is correct - BDS 2006 had C# Builder as a separate personality.
Whatever the 2007 Studio name is dropped visual support for C#, leaving 3
personalities.
--
-Brion
There's no such thing as 'one, true way;'
- Mercedes Lackey
Rick Carter
>> If you were looking at the latest roadmap, how did you miss all the
>> references to C++Builder?
>
>You're right - I was referring to an old version.
>
>Anyway, I guess it says it right here:
>
>"...but it is now planned that Tiburón will be a single release including
>Delphi and C++Builder."
>
>The only unclear aspect would be the inclusion of D2009 .Net.
Well, you pointed out something I overlooked also.
However, the whole paragraph you extracted the quote from was:
"Tiburón now includes the release that was formerly known a Barracuda.
Previously, Barracuda was to be a C++Builder release that followed on to
Tiburón, but it is now planned that Tiburón will be a single release
including Delphi and C++Builder."
The wording is confusing. I think the main thing being stated in that
paragraph is that "Barracuda" will no longer be a separate release, but
will be rolled into Tiburón.
But does the "single release including Delphi and C++Builder" mean that
there will not first be separate releases of Delphi for Win32 and C++
for Win32 ahead of the Studio, as there was with the last release?
That's a bit puzzling since (1) CodeGear staff made it clear at the last
product release that it was their intention to continue to "pre-release"
the Win32 products first, ahead of the Studio, and (2) they sold "Win32
only" Software Assurance to some customers of the last Win32 products,
so wouldn't there be some obligation to fulfill those SA subscriptions?
Well, I'm confused. Can Nick or someone else at CodeGear clarify?
Rick Carter
>there will not first be separate releases of Delphi for Win32 and C++
>for Win32 ahead of the Studio, as there was with the last release?
A further thought: Since Tiburón is primarily to bring Unicode and Generics
to the Win32 products, perhaps there won't be a new version of .NET released
in the same time frame?
What's more, since the Roadmap says "the main area of focus for
consideration for the Commodore project is bringing 64-bit native
development to Delphi, C++Builder, and the VCL,"
perhaps there's no corresponding .NET release at that time either?
We really need to see that long-promised Delphi for .NET Roadmap, or at
least get some clarification!
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> We really need to see that long-promised Delphi for .NET Roadmap, or
> at least get some clarification!
Still in the works.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - Embarcadero
http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
Rick Carter
>> We really need to see that long-promised Delphi for .NET Roadmap, or
>> at least get some clarification!
Nick Hodges wrote:
>Still in the works.
<sigh> Can you at least tell us whether Tiburón is a release only for the
Win32 products, or whether it will be a "RAD Studio" release including
Delphi for .NET as well?
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
"HS" <nos...@as.as> wrote in message news:4886...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Fair enough. By the roadmap and all the blog posts, I assumed
> Tiburón = Delphi 2009 Win32.
Tiburon refers to everything regarding the next version, whether that be for
Delphi or C++.
> Will D2009 Win32, .Net and C++ Builder be part of the Tiburón release?
The full Studio, yes.
Gambit
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
"Ray Porter" <ray_p...@unc.edu> wrote in message
news:4886...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> BDS 2006 installed as 4 personalities. The one you're leaving out is
> C#Builder.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, since C#Builder is no longer available.
Gambit
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> <sigh> Can you at least tell us whether Tibursn is a release only for
> the Win32 products, or whether it will be a "RAD Studio" release
> including Delphi for .NET as well?
Tiburon will be a release of Delphi 2009 and C++Builder 2009.
Our .Net solution will be sometime after that. Can't say exactly when
that sometime is.
Rick Carter
Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
>The full Studio, yes.
Was that an assumption based on past releases? That had been my assumption
also, but Nick's latest post on this thread seems to contradict that.
Alchemist
"Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)" <nick....@codegear.com> wrote in message
news:48878d0a$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Rick Carter wrote:
>
>> <sigh> Can you at least tell us whether Tibursn is a release only for
>> the Win32 products, or whether it will be a "RAD Studio" release
>> including Delphi for .NET as well?
>
> Tiburon will be a release of Delphi 2009 and C++Builder 2009.
>
> Our .Net solution will be sometime after that. Can't say exactly when
> that sometime is.
Will Tiburon include the .NET stuff in Rad Studio 2007? or will you need to
keep Rad Studio 2007 around for .NET and Tiburon around for Unicode, et al.
Oh i just realized a possible clever ploy... RS 2007 followed by RS 2009.
Both odd numbers, great way to avoid the even number vs odd number release
good/bad history. ;-)
Rick Carter
>> <sigh> Can you at least tell us whether Tibursn is a release only for
>> the Win32 products, or whether it will be a "RAD Studio" release
>> including Delphi for .NET as well?
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero) wrote:
>Tiburon will be a release of Delphi 2009 and C++Builder 2009.
From the context, I assume you mean the Win32 products only?
>Our .Net solution will be sometime after that. Can't say exactly when
>that sometime is.
Thank you for saying what you can. :)
Rick Carter
>Oh i just realized a possible clever ploy... RS 2007 followed by RS 2009.
>Both odd numbers, great way to avoid the even number vs odd number release
>good/bad history. ;-)
Perhaps you missed the discussion, but some people think Delphi 2 was
actually pretty good, and Delphi 6 was actually pretty good, and Delphi
2005 following Delphi 8 disproved the "they won't botch two versions in a
row" theory.
Delphi 4 and 8 still seem to be widely regarded as the "worst versions
ever," and the new theory seems to be that it's versions divisible by 4
that are the problem. So, they couldn't release a Delphi 12 or a Delphi
2008. :)
Dennis Cote
>
> There will be no RAD Studio release as part of Tiburon.
>
Are you saying that those who need both the Delphi and C++ personalities
will need to buy two separate IDEs, Delphi 2009 and C++Builder 2009?
If so, will they install as a single integrated IDE, or will they
actually install as two separate products?
Dennis Cote
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> Will Tiburon include the .NET stuff in Rad Studio 2007? or will you
> need to keep Rad Studio 2007 around for .NET and Tiburon around for
> Unicode, et al.
There will be no RAD Studio release as part of Tiburon.
--
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
>
> From the context, I assume you mean the Win32 products only?
Yes.
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> Are you saying that those who need both the Delphi and C++
> personalities will need to buy two separate IDEs, Delphi 2009 and
> C++Builder 2009?
We will be offering a bundle of the two of them together at a nice
price.
> If so, will they install as a single integrated IDE, or will they
> actually install as two separate products?
They'll integrate together.
Chua Chee Wee
>That is BDS 2006 4 personalities
5 personalities actually. You forgot VB.NET! :o)
Bill Mullen
>
>> Are you saying that those who need both the Delphi and C++
>> personalities will need to buy two separate IDEs, Delphi 2009 and
>> C++Builder 2009?
>
>We will be offering a bundle of the two of them together at a nice
>price.
>
Since they aren't RAD will those of us with RAD SA get Tiburon?
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
>
> Since they aren't RAD will those of us with RAD SA get Tiburon?
Yes -- RAD Studio SA will get both.
HS
otherwise carried straight over and integrated into RAD Studio 2009. (=
"D2007.Net with updates + D2009 Win32")
Would save the trouble of installing both RAD Studio 2007 & D2009 as
separate products, since we're using the combination of ASP.Net & Win32
quite heavily.
Anyway, I'm just happy to start working with D2009 Win32 Unicode soon.
Looking forward to it!
HS
"Alchemist" <dride...@stltoday.com> wrote in message
news:488793b0$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Alexandre Machado
> We really need to see that long-promised Delphi for .NET Roadmap, or
> at least get some clarification!
Yes indeed! I've always thought that Tiburón would include a .NET
personality. For me this is a complete surprise.
I'm using BDS 2006 for some WebServices and ASP.NET development, waiting
*impatient* for a new .NET product...
This lack of news about .NET roadmap is getting harder to understand.
Best Regards
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> This lack of news about .NET roadmap is getting harder to understand.
THere are a lot of moving parts that have to stop moving before we can
talk publicly about our plans. Believe me that we want to talk about
it as much or more than you want us to.
Brion L. Webster
Brion L. Webster
>>"HS" <nos...@as.as> wrote in message
>>news:4886...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>>>Will D2009 Win32, .Net and C++ Builder be part of the Tiburón release?
>
>Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
>>The full Studio, yes.
>
>Was that an assumption based on past releases? That had been my assumption
>also, but Nick's latest post on this thread seems to contradict that.
Not necessarily, there will be no Studio in the Tiburon timeframe.
Rob McDonell
> THere are a lot of moving parts that have to stop moving before we can
> talk publicly about our plans.
Does anything in IT ever stop moving?
Bruce McGee
> Yes -- RAD Studio SA will get both.
Score!
sorry, carry on...
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Mark Tiede
"Alexandre Machado" <alexan...@spam.consultbrasil.com.br> wrote in
message news:4888CAF2...@spam.consultbrasil.com.br...
Rick Carter
>> This lack of news about .NET roadmap is getting harder to understand.
Nick Hodges wrote:
>THere are a lot of moving parts that have to stop moving before we can
>talk publicly about our plans. Believe me that we want to talk about
>it as much or more than you want us to.
Nick, I know you're working hard to say as much as you're allowed to say,
but CodeGear needs to realize how this looks to the customer.
First, there is no advance warning that C#Builder and the Winforms designer
are to be dropped from RAD Studio 2007. They're just not there.
Next, we find out there is to be no new .NET version during the same time
frame as Delphi 2009. We're assured that there will be a new version some
time, and Michael Swindell talks in vague terms about how good it's going
to be when it comes.
Still, there's no clear word on what will be in the new .NET version, or
when it will come.
I can't help but recall Danny's posts and blogs in the post-Kylix 3 days
where he talked about what Borland was ready to do with the next version
of Kylix, as soon as the funding was released.
Sorry, but I have to ask:
Is Delphi for .NET the next thing to be "Kylixed?"
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> Nick, I know you're working hard to say as much as you're allowed to
> say, but CodeGear needs to realize how this looks to the customer.
Believe me, I'm well aware of how it looks.
Markus.Humm
> Rick Carter wrote:
>
>> Nick, I know you're working hard to say as much as you're allowed to
>> say, but CodeGear needs to realize how this looks to the customer.
>
> Believe me, I'm well aware of how it looks.
>
Hm, if we knew who's really responsible for this, we could bother this
person rather than you... ;-)
Greetings
Markus
Alexandre Machado
>
> Believe me, I'm well aware of how it looks.
I'm not sure that CG folks are really aware, Nick.
This *mistery* envolving everything related to new Delphi versions
doesn't make any good to *your* customers, nor to *your* product. Each
day without a *clear* path for Delphi - including .NET - is a day we get
closer to develop new products using Visual Studio, believe me.
When Delphi 1 - the VB Killer - was about to be relased, ok... I could
understand all that mistery. But what are you trying to hide nowadays?
Hide from whom?
Regards
Alexandre Machado
>> Will D2009 Win32, .Net and C++ Builder be part of the Tiburón release?
>
> The full Studio, yes.
Gotcha!!!
Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
> When Delphi 1 - the VB Killer - was about to be relased, ok... I
> could understand all that mistery. But what are you trying to hide
> nowadays? Hide from whom?
We aren't trying to hide anything. There are a number of external
factors that have to be worked out before we announce anything.
What would you think if we announced it and then the external factors
weren't able to be finalized and it didn't work out as planned? That
would be way, way worse.
Again, I'm well aware of how it looks. I was a customer for 15 years
before taking this job.
Alexandre Machado
Thanks for your answer Nick.
> What would you think if we announced it and then the external factors
> weren't able to be finalized and it didn't work out as planned? That
> would be way, way worse.
I'm not sure about it. Sometimes, intentions are better than nothing.
We, CG customers, know that CG was sold to Embarcadero, and we do know
that a lot of things can change in a second. But is better to know the
path you want to take, even if you don't take it.
> Again, I'm well aware of how it looks. I was a customer for 15 years
> before taking this job.
My manager wants to go VS. My boss wants to go VS. My colleagues want to
go VS, for different reasons, most of them stupid - really - and not viable.
I'm the only one there that sees a future in Delphi, as long as CG give
me something to *say* about Delphi.
But I've got to give them an *clear answer* otherwise even a stupid
reason is better than *nothing*. Do you agree?
Regards
Kjell Rilbe
> What would you think if we announced it and then the external factors
> weren't able to be finalized and it didn't work out as planned? That
> would be way, way worse.
If you annouced that you want to do THIS, given THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR,
then we would have no problem understanding that we won't get THIS if
THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR fails. No problem.
I agree with others that info about intentions is better than no info at
all.
I am going to start a new project with ECO very soon. Unless I hear
something abour Delphi.Net within a week or two, I WILL use VS. I might
do that anyway, but if you do give me some info, at least Delphi.Net
stands a chance.
Kjell
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kjell Rilbe
Home: +46 8 7610734
Cell: +46 733 442464
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nick Hodges (Embarcadero)
>
> If you annouced that you want to do THIS, given THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR,
> then we would have no problem understanding that we won't get THIS if
> THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR fails.
Sometimes there are external factors, such as legal agreements, that
preclude doing that.
Kjell Rilbe
> Kjell Rilbe wrote:
>
>>If you annouced that you want to do THIS, given THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR,
>>then we would have no problem understanding that we won't get THIS if
>>THAT-EXTERNAL-FACTOR fails.
>
> Sometimes there are external factors, such as legal agreements, that
> preclude doing that.
Understood, but this is the first time I see you or anyone else
mentioning that that is the problem.
Still, wouldn't it be possible to mention all things except those where
there are legal issues?