Danny Thrope has left Borland?
zhenyu shu
thx
Ted
updated since September 27th. Tbh, I find it hard to believe that he has
left Borland, but you never know.
Regards, Ted
Paras
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
> thx
Where on earth did you hear that? Links?
Paras
--
Kyle A. Miller
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
What is your source? That might answer your question.
Uffe Kousgaard
"Ted" <tg@[n0spam]quadrant.nl> wrote in message
news:43954f00$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
zhenyu shu
Thanks for your reply.
David I told me that Danny Thrope had left Borland. I am from China and
Now David I is visiting China.
Danny Thrope has gone to Google. So, who will take the place of Danny to
develop the Delphi's compiler in Delphi 2007?
I think the compiler is so important because Delphi need move to .net 2.0.
I am so sad...
"Ted" <tg@[n0spam]quadrant.nl> 写入邮件
news:43954f00$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
zhenyu shu
"zhenyu shu" <littler...@sohu.com> 写入邮件
news:43955184$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Abdullah Kauchali
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
Hi Zhenyu,
Where did you hear that rumour?
zhenyu shu
http://news.csdn.net/n/20051206/30507.html
But it's written in Chinese, David I is visiting China now.
"Abdullah Kauchali" <n...@non.com> ????
news:4395...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Abdullah Kauchali
> Now David I is visiting China.
> Danny Thrope has gone to Google. So, who will take the place of Danny to
> develop the Delphi's compiler in Delphi 2007?
:(
Abdullah Kauchali
> This is the link
> http://news.csdn.net/n/20051206/30507.html
> But it's written in Chinese, David I is visiting China now.
Zhenyu,
Thanks for the link. (I cannot read Chinese, so ... :) )
Is this a reliable source?
I hope David I or someone from Borland can clarify here.
(Just when you thought the sky falling wasn't enough ... :( )
zhenyu shu
http://manager.csdn.net/
David I 's picture is on the page.
"Abdullah Kauchali" <n...@non.com> ????
news:4395...@newsgroups.borland.com...
zhenyu shu
This website is the biggest and the most professional in China.
The website is inviting David I to communicate with the developers in China
through web chating.
the link I posted is one of the reports.
I believe it is true though I don't hope that.
"Abdullah Kauchali" <n...@non.com> ????
news:4395...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Abdullah Kauchali
> This website is the biggest and the most professional in China.
> The website is inviting David I to communicate with the developers in China
> through web chating.
> the link I posted is one of the reports.
> I believe it is true though I don't hope that.
Eh, bummer.
(What is Google doing anyway that it needs so many talented people??
Are they inventing something earth-shattering??? What??! I don't get
it. It's a g*ddamn search engine, that's all. What's the big deal?)
Ted
> Are they inventing something earth-shattering??? What??! I don't get
> it. It's a g*ddamn search engine, that's all. What's the big deal?)
Rumour goes, they're working on an OS.
Eric Grange
Something web-based.
Eric
Abdullah Kauchali
> Rumour goes, they're working on an OS.
Abdullah Kauchali
Zhenyu, thanks.
Just a side note: I read the few English words (names) from the other
link you posted. I noticed they spelt Danny as Dunny. Ah, a glimmer of
hope! It could be a hoax! :-D
(BTW, must say DavidI does really look a lot like Kingsley Holgate. Or
is Kingsley moonlighting for Borland? :) )
Willi Krenn
> Thanks for the link. (I cannot read Chinese, so ... :) )
I've tried http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr that gives some
sort of translation:
"... About Dunny, it already has worked in Borland Corporation very many
years, itself was a very great person, moreover also is a very great
programmer. Certainly, any person leaves a company, says to the company
all is a loss. But recently several years first had develop Pascal to
leave, afterwards the together unit exploitation VCL person also already
left, although had these personnel's changes, but our team or had the
strength very much, moreover also had some outstanding personnel to
join. Constructs Delphi is team's endeavor, including from the different
city and the different national development endeavor. ..."
".. we also wished in advance Dunny which was in office in Google to
have a good luck. I in Borland Corporation more than 20 years, you so
long as have worked in this company, you regardless of work to any
company, all is the Borland team. Our development team this very moment
all will start in the design next Delphi edition. .."
> Is this a reliable source?
>
> I hope David I or someone from Borland can clarify here.
>
> (Just when you thought the sky falling wasn't enough ... :( )
Very bad news if this was true. :(
Anyone knows who will be doing Danny's work in case he leaves?
Willi
Ingvar Nilsen
> zhenyu shu wrote:
>
>> This is the link
>> http://news.csdn.net/n/20051206/30507.html
>> But it's written in Chinese, David I is visiting China now.
>
>
>
> Zhenyu,
>
> Thanks for the link. (I cannot read Chinese, so ... :) )
At least it says "Dunny Thorpe"
> I hope David I or someone from Borland can clarify here.
We will soon hear about it
> (Just when you thought the sky falling wasn't enough ... :( )
Think about it, is our planning and investments for the future based on
the employment of a single person in a US company?
--
Ingvar Nilsen
http://www.ingvarius.com
BigStew
news:43955184$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Hi, Ted,
> Thanks for your reply.
> David I told me that Danny Thrope had left Borland. I am from China
and
> Now David I is visiting China.
> Danny Thrope has gone to Google.
Well that's not all bad news is it?
People won't miss Danny Thrope.
On the other hand, if you told me that Danny Thorpe was leaving, well that's
a different matter :-)
Stew
Abdullah Kauchali
> Something web-based.
<groan>
Eric, got any links? (I am beginning to really /hate/ Google!
Where's my chair to throw?)
Abdullah Kauchali
> Think about it, is our planning and investments for the future based on
> the employment of a single person in a US company?
No, not the whole company of course, but Delphi (and the compilers)
maybe. Agree?
Ingvar Nilsen
What I think, have no particular sources for it, is that Google wants to
make a sort of OS in the browser, like we now run all kinds of OSes as
virtual machines in VMware inside Windows.
Maybe "OS" is the wrong word, but most likely some kind of "wrapper"
with an API.
Ingvar Nilsen
Regardless - if "the sky is falling" because of this, are we that either
have purchased or plan to purchase BDS 2006 gambling?
David Wilcockson
>
http://blogs.borland.com/stevet/archive/2005/11/16/22095.aspx
??
Abdullah Kauchali
> Regardless - if "the sky is falling" because of this, are we that either
> have purchased or plan to purchase BDS 2006 gambling?
No, of course not. /Our/ decisions should be independent of such
internal proceedings in /other/ companies ... in the US!
(I misunderstood your earlier post. I read /our/ as Borland's ...
sorry.)
Willi Krenn
>>Anyone knows who will be doing Danny's work in case he leaves?
>
> http://blogs.borland.com/stevet/archive/2005/11/16/22095.aspx
Would be strange if there's no one within Borland to fill the gap.
AFAIK you need 5 to 10 years experience working on production compilers,
RD-Parsers, type systems, strong C/C++ skills (etc.) in order to work on
Borland's compilers. So I'd expect someone within Borland to move 'up'
one level.
Eric Grange
> Where's my chair to throw?)
Google for "google OS" ;)
None of google's first submissions looks like the articles I've read,
though they revolve around the same rumours. Most of what I remember
revolves around a minimalistic OS whose only role would be to fire up a
browser-on-steroids. Your data and applications would actually be hosted
on google's servers, the "OS" being just a frontend to these (so wether
it's Linux or something else is essentially irrelevant), using
javascript and other client-side techs to provide local interactivity.
Things like being able to bootup from a simple USB key, or being able to
access "your os" from anywhere via a browser client running in any other
OS (incl. mobiles, not just PCs) are rumoured selling points (as well as
not risking losing your data, having limitless storage capacity at a
very low cost, etc.).
May not be strongly positionned for taking over office and corporate
usages, but for individuals that only do web, mail, a bit of text, image
and movie manipulations, that could fit the bill very sweetly... as soon
as they have enough bandwidth (which is becoming less and less of an issue).
Eric
Kristofer Skaug
> Think about it, is our planning and investments for the future based
> on the employment of a single person in a US company?
Of course not, but a lot of the new-found optimism about Borland and Delphi
around here was based on the Delphi roadmap statements from a couple of
weeks ago, many of which centered on compiler developments (native 64-bit,
.NET2.0, etc) - and I guess we all assumed Danny would play a key role in
that...
Anyway, let's hope this is just 'spin', because I have personally
experienced how some Chinese sites are very good at completely making things
up.
(several major Chinese sports sites for example recently quoted *me* (yes,
me!) as an "expert football analyst for the Norwegian newspaper Verdens
Gang", offering insights on the Norwegian football league, which is
apparently the subject of betting in China).
--
Kristofer
Ryan McGinty
architect whose idea it was left - no one thought D3 could be any good, much
less continue but it did. This is no different.
Ryan
Venkatesh VT
A very crude transaltion of the chinese site quoted by zhenyu shu (thorugh Bable)
Borland David I, Li Uygur CSDN 访谈 factual record 4
2005.12.06 comes from: CSDN
Han Lei: Thanks two replies. Now friend which gives the time outside the field. Has 网友 to change to the present Borland two people matter is interested, is new CEO getting to work, but also some is Dunny Thorpe leaves, preceding news everybody thought is the advantage good news, behind a news, did not know whether can has the influence to the Delphi product and the Borland product route?
David I: First article, you said to, we extremely is very happy he to hold the post of us President and the chief executive officer, he all has worked in Microsoft Corporation and Oracle, at that time was responsible for the development relations, the attenion development and the platform work. About Dunny, it already has worked in Borland Corporation very many years, itself was a very great person, moreover also is a very great programmer. Certainly, any person leaves a company, says to the company all is a loss. But recently several years first had develop Pascal to leave, afterwards the together unit exploitation VCL person also already left, although had these personnel's changes, but our team or had the strength very much, moreover also had some outstanding personnel to join. Constructs Delphi is team's endeavor, including from the different city and the different national development endeavor. The Caliber work, all is completes in California. But ECO is completes in the Sweden Stockholm. Also some completes in St. Petersburg. Caliber is through completes in California and Brazil. This department's members also used have obtained the different edition as the tool. Including 15,000 active requests. The entire development team has also used Star Team in the middle of this process for the source code change as well as and its the management. Some times every one day all make to construct every day, some times one day complete several. Therefore, our these teams may finally gather these distributional developments achievement places in the same place. Our chief skeleton teacher, it has held the post of chief executive officer's duty. Moreover he was extremely active, has organized various conference, moreover also had own on the Borland server contribution, I wanted to emphasize Delphi was not a person's matter, was many public information, also has the result which many quality control engineer worked together, thus caused Delphi 2006 to become a successful product, we also wished in advance Dunny which was in office in Google to have a good luck. I in Borland Corporation more than 20 years, you so long as have worked in this company, you regardless of work to any company, all is the Borland team. Our development team this very moment all will start in the design next Delphi edition. If you also want to understand the Delphi next development the road map speech, I also very will be willing with you to discuss. Any the person which makes the suit to Delphi, their benefit all will be extremely feels middle future many ages. Compares with this, these pitiful Delphi 6 editions developments have been different, they now already walked to the terminus, perhaps they should transport Delphi. Uses after Delphi, they will be allowed to use win32 in the future six months and net continue to be engaged in the development, will have in the condition time will carry on the development using win64.
Venkatesh
Ingvar Nilsen
> I really don't think this is a big deal. Before D3 came out the primary
> architect whose idea it was left - no one thought D3 could be any good,
> much less continue but it did. This is no different.
At least it is a big deal because of the symbol effect.
Somehow Borland is different, and on another planet than Microsoft. When
MS is the huge machine monster with impenetrable marble walls, Borland
on the other hand is the Geek's true companion, we personalize with
Borland, admire the gurus, what if David I left?
Sean Hoffman
(which in general are already hugely bloated and filled with many known
and unknown security holes) acting as a gatekeeper to my data, which
would allow me (and anyone else out there) to access my data from
anywhere. Uh, I'll pass on that one, thanks.
On a slightly related tangent, this whole "thin-client" fallacy really
needs to be exposed for what it really is, a fallacy. As I type this, I
have a Firefox 1.5 browser open with five tabs open:
www.theinquirer.net (required reading)
www.slashdot.org (required reading)
http://jedqc.blogspot.com/ (some dude's Delphi 2006 blog)
www.sysinternals.com (required utilities)
and Mark Russinovich's (of Sysinternals) personal blog
The memory footprint for Firefox is 86 Meg, and none of the above pages
are using Java. That doesn't exactly sound like a "thin" client to me.
In fact, there's certainly more than enough room to fit an entire OS
in that space. I won't even get into how bad the UI typically is on web
apps, or how much time is spent programming around differences in those
bloated browsers noted above.
Uh, sorry, I got off track. If true, it really is a shame that Danny
Thorpe is leaving/has left Borland. I don't think the sky is falling
though; as I recall, many felt the same way when Anders Heljsberg left,
and Delphi 2006 is proof that the spirit is still there.
Will DeWitt Jr.
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
> thx
I really /really/ hope not.
Will
--
Want native support in Delphi for AMD64/EM64T? Vote here--
Eric Grange
>Compares with this, these pitiful Delphi 6 editions developments have
>been different, they now already walked to the terminus, perhaps they
>should transport Delphi.
I suppose it's VB 6 that we should read there, and not Delphi 6?
Eric
Ingvar Nilsen
> zhenyu shu wrote:
>
>
>>Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
>>thx
>
>
> I really /really/ hope not.
Relax, it is "Dunny" that is leaving <g>
Ingvar Nilsen
> Also some completes in St. Petersburg.
Indy? <g>
Ryan McGinty
Nobody considers one guy all that important at MS, and let's face it, they
don't communicate with the public like the Delphi team has. I wouldn't know
who the "big guy (or gal)" in the Office group is, and we'd probably never
hear of him/her leaving (unless Google released a press release just to p!ss
MS off).
Honestly, I didn't know ANYBODY at Borland before they started blogging other
than maybe Anders before he left, David I, and John Kaster because of the
BDN website.
They are all individually important but they are part of a team. There are
members of the team that can move up and take places of those that leave.
I don't wish anyone to leave, but sometimes a new person may have a fresh
perspective on a new direction so it isn't always a negative thing. Besides,
who on earth wants to work on the same thing for 20+ years, even if it is
the best compiler on earth. Danny has given the programming community his
baby, and it is grown and on its own. He probably wants to start a new "no
one has ever done this before" type of challenging project. I also, doubt
he would have left his baby in bad hands. I will sleep well tonight with
no worries about this at all.
Ryan
Eric Grange
> (which in general are already hugely bloated and filled with many known
> and unknown security holes) acting as a gatekeeper to my data, which
> would allow me (and anyone else out there) to access my data from
> anywhere. Uh, I'll pass on that one, thanks.
Not really different from what millions and millions users are already
accustomed to when they have their private email online (gmail, hotmail,
etc.) and purchase online with credit cards.
There already a whole lot of private, personal data online, with very
little security - but when you think of it, that's at least as much
security as the lock on your front door provides... doesn't prevents you
from sleeping at night or leaving your home ;)
> On a slightly related tangent, this whole "thin-client" fallacy really [...]
> The memory footprint for Firefox is 86 Meg, and none of the above pages
> are using Java.
With the same pages, Firefox 1.5 is only using 20 Meg here ;)
Though I have AdBlock which filters out all ads and flash gimmicks.
But yes, I get your point, but "thin client" shouldn't be understood as
a "lightweight" client (IE f.i. is a gigantic tentacular monster of a
software), but more as a "zero specific client-side requirements", ie.
thin from a system administration point of view, not from a runtime
resources point of view.
RAM is cheap, and with 512 MB you can open as many FireFox pages as you
will ever desire, on the other hand, admin time isn't cheap ;)
> Uh, sorry, I got off track. If true, it really is a shame that Danny
> Thorpe is leaving/has left Borland. I don't think the sky is falling
> though; as I recall, many felt the same way when Anders Heljsberg left,
> and Delphi 2006 is proof that the spirit is still there.
D4 was so-so, D5-D7 were okay but mostly incremental, D8/D2005 were
disasters, jury is still out on D2006 (looks good, but I'm now prone to
caution, and after D8/D2005, there are no early Delphi adopters left in
the area, so I won't see it until the demo/personal is out).
Eric
Bruce McGee
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
> thx
Yes, it's true.
Danny is now at Google working on Firefox. You have to admit, that's
pretty cool. Expect to see him speaking on FireFox plug-ins written in
Delphi (seriously), and I suspect the profile of Delphi may increase
within Google. :)
The bottom line is that this is a very good thing for Danny, both
professionally and personally. It isn't all bad news.
I hope this doesn't degenerate in to another "death of Borland" thread.
It just isn't the case. Again.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
Ingvar Nilsen
> I will sleep well tonight with no worries about this at all.
Ryan,
well said, and I agree. I have also made myself the same thoughts, that
20 years probably is more than enough, and that someone else will take
his place. Still I have the feeling that the Borland R&D is not
overpopulated..
Abdullah Kauchali
> Google <----> Firefox????
Chief Scientist <-------> Code Monkey?????
Bruce McGee
> Bruce McGee wrote:
>
> > Danny is now at Google working on Firefox.
>
> Google <----> Firefox????
Google is investing in open source (yay!) technologies that are useful
to them, including FireFox and Open Office.
Abdullah Kauchali
> Yes, it's true.
How do you know that?
Bruce McGee
> I have also made myself the same thoughts,
> that 20 years probably is more than enough, and that someone else
> will take his place. Still I have the feeling that the Borland R&D is
> not overpopulated..
Danny was at Borland for 15 years.
I'll have to agree that R&D could use more resources, though. Steve T
blogged about this. the link was listed in this thread.
somebody
> Sounds like a security nightmare. Just what I want, a browser app
> (which in general are already hugely bloated and filled with many known
> and unknown security holes) acting as a gatekeeper to my data, which
> would allow me (and anyone else out there) to access my data from
> anywhere. Uh, I'll pass on that one, thanks.
See below. With both the client side and the server under your control, as
well as the protocol, security can be as strong as you need it be.
> On a slightly related tangent, this whole "thin-client" fallacy really
> needs to be exposed for what it really is, a fallacy.
[...]
> The memory footprint for Firefox is 86 Meg, and none of the above pages
> are using Java. That doesn't exactly sound like a "thin" client to me.
> In fact, there's certainly more than enough room to fit an entire OS
> in that space. I won't even get into how bad the UI typically is on web
> apps, or how much time is spent programming around differences in those
> bloated browsers noted above.
Well, that all arguments for such an OS, if you think about it. You'll have
both the web client and OS as well as the server streamlined and
incompatibilities resolved. I wouldn't be surprised if Google servers,
instead of being just a proxy, sandboxed, made compliant or reformatted
(would that infringe on copyright?), compressed ...etc the web pages being
browsed through their OS via a secure proprietary protocol. You could
practically reinvent the web. I think that's the way to go and if anybody
can do it, it's either Google or MS. But MS would have to do it against
their traditional OSs, so that leaves Google.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Danny is now at Google working on Firefox.
Google <----> Firefox????
Abdullah Kauchali
> Google is investing in open source (yay!) technologies that are useful
> to them, including FireFox and Open Office.
So, basically they want to sell something tangible after all, eh?
somebody
> That is because MS has lots of $$$$. That is the marble wall you refer
to.
> Nobody considers one guy all that important at MS,
I disagree. I think there's one guy kind of important at MS...
Bruce McGee
> How do you know that?
Someone from Borland told me.
Abdullah Kauchali
> Someone from Borland told me.
Thanks. Did this Borland person also say whether he is /leaving/ or
simply moonlighting for Google?
Leonel
> Anyone knows who will be doing Danny's work in case he leaves?
Danny wasn't the only one working on the compiler. AFAIK, Tagawa has
been working on the compiler for a while, and from what Danny talked
about him in the first 24hs of Delphi, he's been doing awesome things.
--
Leonel
Leonel
> So, who will take the place of Danny to
> develop the Delphi's compiler in Delphi 2007?
As I posted somewhere else in this thread:
Leonel
This reminds of this old post, btw:
http://groups.google.com.br/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/ms
g/fe1c5e3587013caf
--
Leonel
Lurkio
>
> Danny is now at Google working on Firefox. You have to admit, that's
> pretty cool. Expect to see him speaking on FireFox plug-ins written in
> Delphi (seriously), and I suspect the profile of Delphi may increase
> within Google. :)
Delphi + Firefox = :-)
Also, any sign of movement towards Delphi - XUL integration would be
massively appreciated, certainly by me :-)
> The bottom line is that this is a very good thing for Danny, both
> professionally and personally. It isn't all bad news.
I'm just happy he didn't turn to the dark side like most
of the rest of the exiles... :-)
> I hope this doesn't degenerate in to another "death of Borland" thread.
> It just isn't the case. Again.
That would be a real shame because, personally, I feel things
all seem to be moving in the right direction for Delphi again.
In fact, I would guess the timing of him leaving must coincide
with him helping finish the job of putting Delphi back on a
really positive track with D2006 and the roadmap publication.
Ryan McGinty
does anyone know the most important people on: SQLServer, CRM, Office, Visio,
VirtualPC, etc... I don't know the teams because I don't think they are
publicized like Delphi's has been lately. I'm sure the info is out there,
but it doesn't seem as available or followed as much as we Borland groupies
follow Borland.
There is no doubt that Bill, Ballmer, Ozzie, and Anders for .NET mean a little
more than your average MS coder. That said though, I think they could survive
anyone but Gates leaving without too much trouble.
Ryan
Ryan McGinty
assumption ;)
Ryan
Leonel
> > Also some completes in St. Petersburg.
>
> Indy? <g>
Together.
--
Leonel
Leonel
> Danny is now at Google working on Firefox. You have to admit, that's
> pretty cool.
That's pretty cool, really.
While I'm sure Borland will miss him, sounds he'll have a bunch of fun
there.
--
Leonel
Ingvar Nilsen
Google has found out how to make money without apparently making money,
the ultimate formula..
Abdullah Kauchali
> Google has found out how to make money without apparently making money,
> the ultimate formula..
:)
Don't you mean the bubble ... oh sorry, they are also making soft
drinks, or something like that!
Abdullah Kauchali
> You are implying that he had free time.
I thought I read somewhere in this thread about him working for Google
but not leaving being ok ...
Damn straws, they don't make them like they used to! ;-P
Roddy Pratt
news:439574c5$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> This reminds of this old post, btw:
>
> http://groups.google.com.br/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/ms
> g/fe1c5e3587013caf
That's a fine, relevant post. Easier to get at via http://tinyurl.com/8o3jv
- Roddy
Donald Shimoda
> (What is Google doing anyway that it needs so many talented people??
> Are they inventing something earth-shattering??? What??! I don't get
> it. It's a g*ddamn search engine, that's all. What's the big deal?)
Is a lot more thing if you can see better.
Donald
Jan Derk
> This is the link
> http://news.csdn.net/n/20051206/30507.html
> But it's written in Chinese, David I is visiting China now.
If he's leaving for Google we may as well let Google translate it:
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.csdn.net%2Fn%2
F20051206%2F30507.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=
%2Flanguage_tools
Just wandering away:
What if Google wanted to level the OS playing field? While there is
Open Office and Firefox one would still need masses of other
applications that run on Windows, Linux and OSX. To entice the
developers of this world to create those applications one would need a
powerful tool that creates native applications for all of those
platforms and is dead easy to use. Say something with the power of C++
and as easy of VB. What if they ask their newly hired Danny Thorpe if
he has an idea how to do that...
Jan Derk
Donald Shimoda
> Hi, Ted,
> Thanks for your reply.
> David I told me that Danny Thrope had left Borland. I am from
> China and Now David I is visiting China.
> Danny Thrope has gone to Google. So, who will take the place of Danny
> to develop the Delphi's compiler in Delphi 2007?
> I think the compiler is so important because Delphi need move to .net
> 2.0. I am so sad...
If true, the poor moment for that new. :(
Donald
Ottar Holstad
existing dephi magazine...
Msangali
existing dephi magazine...
"
In english, maybe.
http://www.devmedia.com.br/clubedelphi/resumo_edi_atual.asp
Regards,
Marco
Bruce McGee
> Thanks. Did this Borland person also say whether he is leaving or
> simply moonlighting for Google?
He is a full time Google employee.
Bruce McGee
> Maybe I am wrong and I hope I made a mistake, but I just want to
> confirm
I tend to think David I is a reliable source.
Bruce McGee
> No, not the whole company of course, but Delphi (and the compilers)
> maybe. Agree?
No, I don't agree.
Daniel "sakura" Wischnewski
>
I wouldn't either. I believe with Tagawa san we will see many more good new
features coming in the future. I am sure, Danny wouldn't have left without a
good feeling for his successors. He just loves Delphi too much - and he did
need a change after such a long time in compiler building ;)
--
Regards,
Daniel
Co-Admin: www.delphipraxis.net
* * The German Delphi-Forum * *
Blog: http://delphi-notes.blogspot.com
dk_sz
Basicly they wanna get out of MS' push dominance I think.
best regards
Thomas
Bruce McGee
> So, basically they want to sell something tangible after all, eh?
I tend to think they're still just providing genuinely useful software.
It's simply the best way to support their business model.
And you don't have to like Google to see the benefit. The more things
they (and others) provide that people really want to use, the more
companies like Microsoft (just think Hotmail) will understand that they
have to do the same.
When more companies have to compete on merit (this will still take some
time), then I win. Sweet!
Simon Kissel
Danny was the pure genius behind the Delphi compiler. I can't imagine
how Borland could possibly fill this gap - especially as there is tons
of compiler work to do now (64Bit etc).
Sorry, I know this shouldn't become a "Borland is dead"-thread, but,
damn, this is shocking news :(
Simon
Willi Krenn
> how Borland could possibly fill this gap - especially as there is tons
> of compiler work to do now (64Bit etc).
If you succeed with your CrossFPC project, you won't need the Borland
compiler anyways ;-)
> Sorry, I know this shouldn't become a "Borland is dead"-thread, but,
> damn, this is shocking news :(
Well, I would not go as far as calling this 'shocking news', but I have
to admit that this kind of news is not very welcome. Especially as I
expected /Borland/ to announce this sort of thing - including the name
of the person who will continue Danny's work. Relying on some '3rd
party' news site to break this news does not look very well thought-out.
Time for the new DCC 'boss' to add some 'Hello World' blog entry. Don't
keep the Delphi community waiting... :)
Willi
Sean Hoffman
supposed to be a NG people; where are the "you suck!" type remarks? ;-)
You make very good points Eric. I want to respond specifically to one:
>
> But yes, I get your point, but "thin client" shouldn't be understood as
> a "lightweight" client (IE f.i. is a gigantic tentacular monster of a
> software), but more as a "zero specific client-side requirements", ie.
> thin from a system administration point of view, not from a runtime
> resources point of view.
But isn't the notion that a web browser offers less system
administration misleading too? From both the server perspective as well
as the end-user perspective. From the server perspective, have you ever
tried to deploy Websphere in a load-balancing role? It can be done, but
it aint pretty (mostly because it's just Websphere- It never ceases to
amaze me how much business IBM can do selling absolutely atrocious
software, and how the really *good* stuff, like say, OS/2, can't sell
worth a damn. But that's a tangent to a tangent).
From the end-user perspective, If I need to go off and install
Macromedia Flash, QuickTime, or RealPlayer to properly load a page, or
have to code around the fact that the user may or may not have ActiveX
installed (if they're smart they won't even be using IE, but that's
another topic), then don't those become system administration issues? I
agree with you that the benefit of "thin client" is the distribution,
but I just feel like you could achieve the same level of distribution by
having a full-featured client which auto-updates itself.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that the web is a wonderful thing and has
some wonderful advantages. I just have a personal belief that the rule
for making something full-featured or thin should come down to two
factors, which can be represented on a graph. If you had a two
dimensional graph and on the vertical axis there was software complexity
(increasing in complexity as you go upward on the axis), and on the
horizontal axis you graphed had the number of times a user used your
software, then software that falls to the right or at the top of the
graph should be full-featured, and software that graphed near the
origin of the graph should be thin-client. Right now (and for the last
several years), software has been, to a fault, thin-client based. I'm
even talking rich internal back-office applications, which clearly are a
candidate for full-featured clients.
<snip>
> D4 was so-so, D5-D7 were okay but mostly incremental, D8/D2005 were
> disasters, jury is still out on D2006 (looks good, but I'm now prone to
> caution, and after D8/D2005, there are no early Delphi adopters left in
> the area, so I won't see it until the demo/personal is out).
I would give it better grades than you, but that's just a matter of
perspective. I was forced to use VB and/or MFC throughout some of those
times, and I longed for C++ Builder (not Delphi, but close enough).
Per Larsen
>Danny was the pure genius behind the Delphi compiler. I can't imagine how
>Borland could possibly fill this gap - especially as there is tons of
>compiler work to do now (64Bit etc).
This is an exaggeration if I ever saw one. Danny is unquestionably a
talented programmer, but his work on the Delphi compiler can hardly be
described as the work of a genius - more like logical incremental
enhancements. If anything, Danny has struck me as being a very cautious and
conservative chief architect. This has been good for stability and ease of
porting between the various versions that Danny has been responsible for,
but the language hasn't evolved much under his reign - he has been firmly in
the evolution rather than revolution camp.
I could be wrong, but it is not my impression that Danny had any commercial
experience with compiler writing when he joined the Delphi R&D team. Hiring
people who do have such experience should not be terribly hard.
In my view, the greatest loss for Borland will be the loss of Danny's
excellent communication skills.
- Per
Simon Kissel
> >Borland could possibly fill this gap - especially as there is tons of
> >compiler work to do now (64Bit etc).
>
> This is an exaggeration if I ever saw one. Danny is unquestionably a
> talented programmer, but his work on the Delphi compiler can hardly be
> described as the work of a genius - more like logical incremental
> enhancements. If anything, Danny has struck me as being a very cautious and
> conservative chief architect. This has been good for stability and ease of
> porting between the various versions that Danny has been responsible for,
> but the language hasn't evolved much under his reign - he has been firmly in
> the evolution rather than revolution camp.
Well, during the recent years, the compiler team was pretty understaffed. For
the "size" of that "team" Danny really made great progress.
From lots of communication I had with him, I highly respect Danny to be a highly
skilled compiler architect.
> I could be wrong, but it is not my impression that Danny had any commercial
> experience with compiler writing when he joined the Delphi R&D team. Hiring
> people who do have such experience should not be terribly hard.
The questions is IF Borland will be hiring an at least equally competent
replacement.
Simon
Bob Swart
> Perfectly timed with me recieving the last ever printed issue of the last
> existing dephi magazine...
Which will continue for the foreseeable future in electronic PDF format
that you can still print (and search easier)...
Groetjes,
Bob Swart (aka Dr.Bob - www.DrBob42.com)
--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42) - Borland Technology Partner
Blog: http://www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: http://drbob42.com/weblog.xml
Dennis Landi
news:4395661e$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> zhenyu shu wrote:
>
> > Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
> > thx
>
> I really /really/ hope not.
>
Ah geeez. Just when I thought all was back on track with the Delphi
World...
Bad news. This could scuttle any hope of getting a native 64-bit compiler.
It depends on who steps up to the plate and what the over-all resource
availability will be with the new personnel allocations in R&D...
OTOH, maybe we can get lucky and have Google buy Borland.... Then they can
write their GoogleOS in Delphi, yeah baby!
And.... At least he didn't go to MS. That would have just sucked...
Bye Danny. You will be sorely missed.
-d
Simon Kissel
> > how Borland could possibly fill this gap - especially as there is tons
> > of compiler work to do now (64Bit etc).
>
> If you succeed with your CrossFPC project, you won't need the Borland
> compiler anyways ;-)
I'd really prefer if this project wasn't needed.
Simon
Daniel "sakura" Wischnewski
> Bad news. This could scuttle any hope of getting a native 64-bit
> compiler.
>
probably knew as well. So they knew that he would be gone before they
released that road map ;-) my 2 cents on that part of the topic
Sean Hoffman
Dennis Landi wrote:
<snip>
> Bad news. This could scuttle any hope of getting a native 64-bit compiler.
Actually, the compiler won't have to be changed *that* drastically for
64 bit. 64 bit doesn't actually change the default word size, it
changes the default *pointer* size. The only completely new thing that
they'll need (off the top of my head) is some sort of equivalent for
intrinsic functions (the abstraction used in VC++ in place of inline
assembler, but so many 64 bit applications aren't taking advantage of
the extra registers as it stands, so it's safe to say that most will
just recompile).
There will be more changes for existing libraries (specifically, VCL)
and for the companion tools (specifically, the linker) than to the
compiler. The bigger source of consternation will be .NET 2.0. There
will have to be syntactic changes to the language itself to handle
generics and partial class implementations (if Borland even chooses to
implement partial classes).
Bruce McGee
[...]
> Bye Danny. You will be sorely missed.
He isn't dead or anything. :)
In fact, if there's enough interest, Lino Tadros is going to have
another Falafel Developer Conference in Toronto. Speakers include Lino
(well, d'uh!), Allen Bauer, Charlie Calvert and (you guessed it), Danny
Thorpe. Danny specifically mentioned talking about FireFox plug-ins
written in Delphi.
Tentatively scheduled for 2006, hopefully close to the release of
Highlander. More details as they become available.
Eric Grange
> in a load-balancing role? It can be done, but it aint pretty
Well, bad server-side software exists too, and in this particular case,
it's also Java-based, so doubly bad ;)
> (mostly because it's just Websphere- It never ceases to
> amaze me how much business IBM can do selling absolutely atrocious
> software, and how the really *good* stuff, like say, OS/2, can't sell
> worth a damn. But that's a tangent to a tangent).
Well, if you think about it, it's in IBM's best interest to sell
atrocious underperforming software... it allows to sell more hardware,
and more consulting and maintainance contracts ;)
> From the end-user perspective, If I need to go off and install
> Macromedia Flash, QuickTime, or RealPlayer to properly load a page
But that's only if you use Flash (which you shouldn't), QuickTime (which
you really shouldn't) or RealPlayer media (which... no, don't even start
thinking about it).
> have to code around the fact that the user may or may not have ActiveX
> installed (if they're smart they won't even be using IE, but that's
> another topic), then don't those become system administration issues?
ActiveX is unnecessary too. FireFox certainly lives well without it.
But even if you want it, it's not a significant client administration
issue, simply because you can still clone your clients (with or without
ActiveX activated), and wether you have 2 or 2000 clients, they can all
use the same setup, you can freely reformat their harddrives, reinstall
and use whatever OS and HD/USB/ROM storage you fancy, without risking
losing their data or their personnalized settings (since they're all
kept in some server-side storage).
That's where you save admin costs, there is only one limited set of
complex machines, the servers, with a unique client setup (ideally).
Compare that to having thousandths of PCs, from various hardware
generations, with just as many storage capacities and OS revisions,
which you have to test against all your "fat clients".
> I agree with you that the benefit of "thin client" is the distribution,
> but I just feel like you could achieve the same level of distribution by
> having a full-featured client which auto-updates itself.
Distribution itself isn't the issue IMO, it's guaranteeing consistency,
and this is much harder with a full-blown PC and full-blown applications
when you have many PCs (and DLL hell or assembly hell are only tiny
specks of quartz in the desert of maintainance issues).
Not to mention the admin's nightmare of the knowledgeable/advanced user
tweaking his machine... ;)
> [...] I'm even talking rich internal back-office applications,
> which clearly are a candidate for full-featured clients.
For end-user friendlyness, thin applications aren't so good, they do the
job, rarely more. But for the admin, they're so much easier to maintain,
which can lead to better uptimes, which hopefully recovers some of the
lost end-user friendlyness in the form of stability and regular updates
(but that last part is up to the admin and management...).
> I would give it better grades than you, but that's just a matter of
> perspective. I was forced to use VB and/or MFC throughout some of those
> times, and I longed for C++ Builder (not Delphi, but close enough).
You have my compassion :)
My last extended experiences with VB were with VB3 and embedded VB, both
felt kinda like programming in assembler (you know, having only basic
stuff at your disposal and facing quirks at every corner), though
without the speed benefits ^_^
Eric
Pierre le Riche
> Bad news. This could scuttle any hope of getting a native 64-bit
> compiler.
> It depends on who steps up to the plate and what the over-all resource
> availability will be with the new personnel allocations in R&D...
Not a problem... just make the compiler source code available to the
Fastcode project and we'll have the world's greatest 64-bit compiler in no
time <vbg>. It won't happen, but one can always dream ;-).
Working on a compiler must be the coolest programming job there is, so I'm
sure there won't be a shortage of applicants if Borland needs to hire
someone.
Regards,
Pierre
Iman L Crawford
@newsgroups.borland.com:
> Google has found out how to make money without apparently making money,
> the ultimate formula
Our google ads are not free.
--
Iman
Bruce McGee
> I tend to think they're still just providing genuinely useful
> software.
More on this. I especially like the "don't be evil" slogan. :)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10296177/site/newsweek/
info@bop.govandaskthemwhat'sup Crazy Horse's crazier little brother
news:4395...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Is that true? or it is just a rumor?
Well, Danny Thrope can leave, as long as Danny Thorpe doesn't.
Actually, I noticed about a week ago that Danny hadn't posted on any borland
newsgroup in several weeks, and thought of posting a "wassup with that" msg,
but restrained myself.
--
Download the latest draft (version 1.24, updated 11/8/2005) of
"STILL CASTING SHADOWS: Two American Families 1620-2006"
by Blackbird Crow Raven: http://cc.borland.com/ccweb.exe/listing?id=23106
Abdullah Kauchali
> ... Danny specifically mentioned talking about FireFox plug-ins
> written in Delphi.
What are these plug-ins? Are they like ActiveX's?
Jim Cooper
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10296177/site/newsweek/
<quote>
Pack them in. Almost every project at Google is a team project, and teams have
to communicate. The best way to make communication easy is to put team members
within a few feet of each other. The result is that virtually everyone at Google
shares an office.
</quote>
It's amazing how pervasive this mindset is in the software industry, regardless
of all indications to the contrary.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
__________________________________________
Jim Cooper jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
__________________________________________
Leonel
> What are these plug-ins?
They're called "extensions":
https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/?application=firefox
--
Leonel
Thomas Miller
engine any more. http://maps.google.com is just one of the many
planned services they plan on rolling out soon. They have even
announced that they plan on creating a stripped down version of
Open Office that runs completely from a browser.
If this is true, I wish the best for Danny. You can only work on
compilers for so long. I am sure it gets to you. I just hope this
doesn't delay things for Win64 native.
Ted wrote:
>> (What is Google doing anyway that it needs so many talented people??
>> Are they inventing something earth-shattering??? What??! I don't get
>> it. It's a g*ddamn search engine, that's all. What's the big deal?)
>
> Rumour goes, they're working on an OS.
>
>
--
Thomas Miller
Chrome Portal Project Manager
Wash DC Delphi SIG Chairperson
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
http://www.bss-software.com
http://www.cpcug.org/user/delphi/index.html
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chromeportal/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/uopl/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
Thomas Miller
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>> Think about it, is our planning and investments for the future based
>> on the employment of a single person in a US company?
>
>
> No, not the whole company of course, but Delphi (and the compilers)
> maybe. Agree?
No. As David I noted, they lost several very important people to MS
and Delphi has kept moving along. And the problem has never been the
Delphi folks, it has always been the management. I have a glimmer of
hope that things are actually going in the right direction.
John O'Harrow
message news:43959cf6$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Actually, the compiler won't have to be changed *that* drastically for 64
> bit. 64 bit doesn't actually change the default word size, it changes the
> default *pointer* size. The only completely new thing that they'll need
> (off the top of my head) is some sort of equivalent for intrinsic
> functions (the abstraction used in VC++ in place of inline assembler, but
> so many 64 bit applications aren't taking advantage of the extra registers
> as it stands, so it's safe to say that most will just recompile).
I think you are seriously underestimating the changes required to produce a
native 64 bit compiler. IMO the differences from the current compiler would
be so great that it would be necessary to code it from scratch.
I agree with Pierre. Get the Fastcode project more involved, and get the
best compiler and RTL at virtually no cost.
--
regards,
John
The Fastcode Project:
http://www.fastcodeproject.org/
Sean Hoffman
get the C++ compiler to do 64 bit, judging from a time perspective. But
I could be wrong...
John O'Harrow wrote:
<snip>
David Farrell-Garcia
> Well that's not all bad news is it?
> People won't miss Danny Thrope.
> On the other hand, if you told me that Danny Thorpe was leaving, well
> that's a different matter :-)
LOL!
--
David Farrell-Garcia
Whidbey Island Software LLC
Posted with XanaNews 1.17.6.6
David Farrell-Garcia
> (What is Google doing anyway that it needs so many talented people??
> Are they inventing something earth-shattering??? What??! I don't get
> it. It's a g*ddamn search engine, that's all. What's the big deal?)
Google is into a lot these days. Microsoft has more to worrry about
from Google then you think.