He's dead, Jim.

[August]

The last 7 posts to this mailing list have been spam. Olav doesn't
seem to post here anymore, and it's been 6 months since the last
update to Blueprint. I suppose it's going to stay at .7 forever.

I'm taking a pulse and calling this group dead.

Good luck to everyone.


-- August

[Anand]

don't!

[Christian Montoya]

Just an FYI to everyone, I've been very busy lately with moving &
starting my own company, but if Olav is really gone, I'm willing to
pick up support for BP and maybe even develop it to version 0.8. It
will need a new mailing list, though, because I for one am really
tired of all the BDSM spam :(

If you would like to be notified of when a new mailing list opens up,
please send me a direct email:

sirokai [at] gmail.com

Thanks.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net

[StevenBlack]

A new group isn't the answer. In fact, that's fragmentary, and is as
good as killing the whole thing.

All we need is an admin who will show up and delete spam. It's not
hard.

If group admin credentials were more widely shared the problem just
goes away.

**--** Steve

[Brandon Martus]

Yeah, can we add more admins .. or does Olav have to do that?

--
-- Brandon Martus
--

[Christian Montoya]

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:15 AM, StevenBlack <ste...@stevenblack.com> wrote:
>
> A new group isn't the answer. In fact, that's fragmentary, and is as
> good as killing the whole thing.
>
> All we need is an admin who will show up and delete spam. It's not
> hard.
>
> If group admin credentials were more widely shared the problem just
> goes away.

Steve, it's not that simple. I don't *want* to start a new group, but
Olav is the only one with admin rights on this one, and without him
managing it, there's no way to fix things, or even delete the
occasional spam. No one else can create admins. So the only option is
to create a new group, fork Blueprint development, and pick up where
Olav left off. Unless you know Olav's password. If you do, e-mail it
to me.

[Horst Gutmann]

Hi :-)

Has anybody of you already contacted Olav about this? From what I can
see, he hasn't at least dropped of the net completely, since he's been
active on twitter a month ago -- if https://twitter.com/vandelay is
really his account there.

-- Horst

[Christian Montoya]

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Horst Gutmann <horst....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi :-)
>
> Has anybody of you already contacted Olav about this? From what I can
> see, he hasn't at least dropped of the net completely, since he's been
> active on twitter a month ago -- if https://twitter.com/vandelay is
> really his account there.
>
> -- Horst
>

Yeah, I've contacted him, just waiting on a response. A month is a
long time on the Internet, though :[

[Lorin Tackett]

I'm part of this, a HAML and StaticMatic groups... I get roughly the same
spam from each. In most cases it's exactly the same message. =(

Spam x3 makes me mad as hell.

[Ryan Snowden]

So it doesn't fulfil your fantasies?

[Horst Gutmann]

Just my two cent on this whole situation:

* If Olav is really gone and no one else of those people who have
enough
access to the whole project, a fork should happen sooner rather
than later. A later merge back is nothing unheard of in OSS.

* The new project should have at least 2 people with complete admin
access to the project repository and the mailing list and a couple
of more people with moderator access to the mailing list in order
to
keep the spam volume low

* I personally also don't really see a problem with splitting the
Blueprint community, since the "original" won't have a big
community
left if it stays in hibernation for much longer. So this is in my
opinion only a minor issue at the beginning of the fork's life-
cycle.

* How much access does Joshua Clayton have on the project? I guess
only
for the Ruby-related parts, right?

* I see a fork really as the last resort, but without an active
maintainer
and given current list of reported issues (as well as some obvious
ones
like the whole .column class issue) I personally don't see any
real
alternatives if the ideas behind BlueprintCSS should survive.

I personally don't have the experience nor the time to really
contribute
much to the continued development of the project -- except for perhaps
some
admin or moderation tasks if needed --, so these are really
just 1 cents rather than 2.

-- Horst


On Aug 6, 10:59 pm, "Christian Montoya" <siro...@gmail.com> wrote:

[josh.c]

Horst,

You're correct in that I only dealt with the Ruby aspect of the code.
I haven't been involved with the actual CSS framework, just the bits
that help developers generate code etc. I don't really have a problem
with a 'regime change' so to speak, but I've gone through and added
this project to my Github account. Previous collaborators will be
getting access to the project as well. The Github repo is:
http://github.com/joshuaclayton/blueprint-css. Good luck all!

[Christian Montoya]

All,

Does anyone know who owns this?

http://www.blueprintcss.com/

[baller]

+2 on Horst's comments. I am incapable of providing development beyond
support responses, however I can moderate if you want/need help.

As to blueprintcss.com, some amateur detective work yields ...
- Owned by New Dream Network LLC, parent of Dreamhost.com
- New Dream Network in legal dispute (look for plaintiff's name, I
will not post it here)
http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/michigan/miedce/2:2008cv10392/227336/

[Christian Montoya]

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:23 AM, baller <neil....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +2 on Horst's comments. I am incapable of providing development beyond
> support responses, however I can moderate if you want/need help.
>
> As to blueprintcss.com, some amateur detective work yields ...
> - Owned by New Dream Network LLC, parent of Dreamhost.com
> - New Dream Network in legal dispute (look for plaintiff's name, I
> will not post it here)
> http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/michigan/miedce/2:2008cv10392/227336/
>

That just means it was secured by a Dreamhost customer under a private
registration. So whois is useless, and if no one on this list has it
then it might be a squatter. Or maybe Olav :[

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

Personally, I'm totally behind Christian Montoya taking over the
development as he seems most knowledgeable about BP and its related
tools. So I would suggest to Christian to email Olav once more, wait
for three days and if no response, "fork" BP.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

[Christian Montoya]

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian
<rajeev.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Personally, I'm totally behind Christian Montoya taking over the
> development as he seems most knowledgeable about BP and its related
> tools. So I would suggest to Christian to email Olav once more, wait
> for three days and if no response, "fork" BP.
>

Well, I e-mailed him yesterday, so if he doesn't respond by the
weekend, I'll be "forking" by Monday or Tuesday :)

[Horst Gutmann]

Is it already time for a naming contest? I'd vote for CoreGridCSS ;-)

-- Horst

[mushon | ShiftSpace]

Hi Horst, Christian, all,


I am following the developments here and I think they are very
healthy.
Just to keep the terminology straight, no-one is forking BP, as this
is a case of leadership change.
BP stays BP, it doesn't fork to two different projects, it's only the
community continuing the project in the case of the project owner/
leader's unresponsiveness. It's not like there is BluePrint CSS
without this step, so it's not the time for naming contests.

I say Blueprint stays Blueprint, no need to "fork" or "rename".

Christian, I would love for you to offer some idea of where do you
want to take BP beyond 0.7
There's a lot of (healthy) competition these days, I think if we want
to move forward we need some sort of agenda.
(and though the spam problem is severe, it does not stop us from being
able to have this discussion here, so for now I suggest we keep it
here).

I will try to help as much as I can,

cheers,

Mushon Zer-Aviv | ע Shual.com - design studio |§ ShiftSpace.org - an
opensource layer above any website | + 1-646-283-6057

On Aug 7, 11:54 am, "Horst Gutmann" <horst.gutm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it already time for a naming contest? I'd vote for CoreGridCSS ;-)
>
> -- Horst
>

[mushon | ShiftSpace]

Hi Horst, Christian, all,


I am following the developments here and I think they are very
healthy.
Just to keep the terminology straight, no-one is forking BP, as this
is a case of leadership change.
BP stays BP, it doesn't fork to two different projects, it's only the
community continuing the project in the case of the project owner/
leader's unresponsiveness. It's not like there is BluePrint CSS
without this step, so it's not the time for naming contests.

I say Blueprint stays Blueprint, no need to "fork" or "rename".

Christian, I would love for you to offer some idea of where do you
want to take BP beyond 0.7
There's a lot of (healthy) competition these days, I think if we want
to move forward we need some sort of agenda.
(and though the spam problem is severe, it does not stop us from being
able to have this discussion here, so for now I suggest we keep it
here).

I will try to help as much as I can,

cheers,

Mushon Zer-Aviv | ע Shual.com - design studio |§ ShiftSpace.org - an
opensource layer above any website | + 1-646-283-6057

On Aug 7, 11:54 am, "Horst Gutmann" <horst.gutm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it already time for a naming contest? I'd vote for CoreGridCSS ;-)
>
> -- Horst
>

[Chris Eppstein]

Couldn't agree more.

With respect to future direction, I'd like to take this opportunity to
plug my project "Blueprint-Sass" which is a port of the blueprint
framework to leverage the power of the CSS Meta-Langage called Sass.

I see a possibility of using sass files as blueprint's foundation and
then generating the css files for use without sass just as ruby now is
used to perform this step.

However, if developers instead choose to use the sass file's directly
in their ruby project (or any other language to which the sass parser
is ported eventually), then they will have all the power of blueprint
without the need to violate the semantic markup content/presentation
boundary.

If you haven't yet seen my project you can find it on Github:
http://github.com/chriseppstein/blueprint-sass

If you want to try it out, please follow these instructions:

1. git clone git://github.com/chriseppstein/haml.git
2. git clone git://github.com/chriseppstein/blueprint-sass.git
3. ln -s ../../haml blueprint-sass/test/haml
4. cd blueprint-sass
5. rake examples
6. rake test
7. open compiled_examples/simple

More information on Sass can be found here:
http://haml.hamptoncatlin.com/docs/rdoc/classes/Sass.html

I'm eager to hear if anyone this direction would be interesting. We're
still a ways off from achieving this goal, but I can see us declaring
the current blueprint-css as 1.0 for historical purposes and then
embarking on a 2.0 effort based on Sass.

Thanks,
Chris Eppstein

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

Hi Chris,

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Chris Eppstein <chrise...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more.
>
> With respect to future direction, I'd like to take this opportunity to
> plug my project "Blueprint-Sass" which is a port of the blueprint
> framework to leverage the power of the CSS Meta-Langage called Sass.
>
> I see a possibility of using sass files as blueprint's foundation and
> then generating the css files for use without sass just as ruby now is
> used to perform this step.
>
> However, if developers instead choose to use the sass file's directly
> in their ruby project (or any other language to which the sass parser
> is ported eventually), then they will have all the power of blueprint
> without the need to violate the semantic markup content/presentation
> boundary.

I think thats a great idea. I would also add that, the BP project
should generate .css files for some common grid size(s) so that people
dont have to use the sass source.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

[Chris Eppstein]

Absolutely. I don't think that Ruby nor Sass should be a requirement
to use Blueprint CSS, but if they do, then they have more power.

-chris

On Aug 7, 10:02 am, "Rajeev J Sebastian" <rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Chris,

[Jacques Crocker]

I've been using Chris's Blueprint SASS project for all my web apps, and its been working great. If you're using Rails or Merb, this is the best way to go. But it only works in that scenario.

Even being a Ruby fan, using those Blueprint Generators have been a nightmare. I even preferred the old days approach of using a website to generate the blueprint css files and grid.

[nilamo]

+1 BP continuation.
As to a new group, the only objection I see is that anyone that
stumbles across the old BP site will be directed toward this group.

Alex

[Chris Eppstein]

Hi Jacques,

I'm glad you're enjoying the sassified version of blueprint! Maybe we
should add a testimonials wiki page :)

What I'm proposing is that Sass be used to replace the combination of
CSS and ERB used to generate the blueprint css files -- not force the
adoption of Sass nor ruby. Of course, this is not yet possible,
because Sass is not powerful enough to express some of the logic in
those templates. But it will be in the next couple of weeks!

Once that is in place, it should be possible to base the css
generation on the same sass files that those who choose to use them
directly can (and if they do, with more flexibility and clean,
semantic markup).

This would also allow for ease of maintenance and to make sure that
the really smart folks working on the actual css styles in blueprint
are benefiting from that.

Anyways, I plan to continue improving blueprint sass and working with
the sass community to provide them with a very powerful framework for
getting started. In due time, I think my vision for how sass can be
used in blueprint (proper) will be clear if it's not now...

-chris

On Aug 9, 10:33 am, "Jacques Crocker" <jcnet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using Chris's Blueprint SASS project for all my web apps, and its
> been working great. If you're using Rails or Merb, this is the best way to
> go. But it only works in that scenario.
>
> Even being a Ruby fan, using those Blueprint Generators have been a
> nightmare. I even preferred the old days approach of using a website to
> generate the blueprint css files and grid.
>

[Glenn Rempe]

+10