Back to the Wiki

[Leigh Blackall]

When you guys get back from holidays, I think we should revisit the Wiki. As you know, I'm pretty new to Wiki land, but after having another little go on our wiki today, I discovered the option to upload files... I'm pretty excited by this capability and would like to know what the limits are... it is jotspot who is hosting this right? I can't seem to find mention of a limit. The MP3s I have loaded so far have URLs... I think the wiki should be what we actually develop the resource with.

At this stage we could just chuck stuff up there (note: the wiki can be emailed to) and from time to time one of us can go in there and tidy it up a bit...

Anyway, relax ignore this email until you are back from holidays - I just needed to post you before I forgot.

Leigh

[Michael Nelson]

Hey Leigh!

I don't think I've ever left the idea of the Wiki. The basic premise of a Wiki is invaluable: that anyone can update and improve the page, while we can still record all revisions and changes in case we need to revert back to a previous version.

The issue is that there are tonnes of different open source wikis out there, all with pro's and con's. There are a whole bunch of related decisions/issues too, for example:

Many web applications are today using WYSIWYG editors (such as blogger)... ideally i think it would be best to have a wiki with such an editor - but, ultimately although people don't have to learn a Wiki markup or basic HTML, it may be useful as they want to do more complex edits... the question for us is: is it best to offer basic HTML (where requested) or Wiki markup? Which is going to be more useful for people to learn (when they have the need)? I'm favoring basic HTML (as I think Wiki markup may eventually be redundant as browser support for WYSIWYG editors increases, and HTML as many more useful applications).

A content management system like Drupal allows us, as the site administrators, to allow all users to create different types of content (simple pages, wiki pages, stories etc etc.) Obviously we don't want to overwhelm users, so we would just offer a basic wiki page or something (the Drupal book page is a type of Wiki, allowing anyone to edit and it saves all revisions... has a few drawbacks too).

As for JotSpot, they have lots of cool functionality (like emailing things to the wiki as you discovered!), but it doesn't offer much flexibility in how we can present our site (well, that we've found so far anyway!). For example, I would hope that unregistered users (people just using the resource) wouldn't see any administration panes with irrelevant info etc. I'm not sure what the upload limit is, but basically, you'd normally have to pay for it anyway... they're currently in beta, and are saying that they'll not charge open-source projects etc...

So... our question is not really whether to use a Wiki, but which Wiki will we wuse ;-) I'm currently leaning towards a self-hosting option (so we can control more about the presentation, keeping it simple while integrating rich content etc), and something that offers more than just a Wiki (so we can do things like Sean's database of links).

I've taken a look at quite a few Wikis (but haven't fully updated the page on our project wiki:
http://blendedlearning.jot.com/Platform%20Options

Feel free to check some out and update the page!
-Michael

BTW: I'm still catching up on email, but couldn't ignore this one :) Had a great time out at Dubbo Zoo for a few days earlier this week! And finished sanding/oiling the floor of our living room/hallway... two holiday priorities crossed off... yay!

[Leigh Blackall]

Thanks Mick, It's good to get a catch up with where you're at. OurMedia.org uses a Wiki for development (can;'t remember which one... will get back to you on this) and Drupal for presentation. They too are still ironing out their bugs but it interesting to see that you are taking a similar line. Interestingly though, I recall that their wiki was a free webservice...
The thing I find just a touch confusing in all this is when I go to make edits and contributions to bith the Wiki and the Drupal site... Some edits showed up some did not. I seem to be not able to edit the front page of the wiki... and I'm a little lost in the Drupal site. Basically I'm just a bit confused. If I had more time, I'm sure I could get used to it... It would be useful for me if I could see a screencast of using them, I get quick ideas and insight when I get to see and hear other's. Either that, or a face to face just to formaulate a long term plan...
Good to have you back.

[Leigh Blackall]

I might have been wrong about OurMedia using a web service wiki. They use: http://www.socialtext.com/

[Nelson, Michael]

Bummer that it’s not open source (socialtext.com that is).

 

Strange that some edits don’t show up on the jotspot wiki… I’d be keen to try that out… you should have access to change any page.

 

The Drupal site does need a bit of an intro and discussion before people would feel comfortable to make edits (I think). The great thing is that it can be presented as simply as we need. You’ll notice for eg, that when you go there now, there is no login box on the left, just the outline of the current (and only resource) “Getting started with BLogging in Education”. It is incredibly flexible, but that can mean that it has too many options, especially at the moment while I’m trying out all the options. It would be good to run through it face-2-face… maybe we could organise a time and you could drop in on your way through (either to work or on way home) when you’ve time.

 

-Michael.

 

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[Leigh Blackall]

No, the problem was that I needed to refresh the jotspot after logging in... after a refresh (including every jot page in cache) I am able to edit... hmmm.
Mike, I think this screencast of Jot will interest you quite a bit.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/gems/jot2.swf

[Nelson, Michael]

Yeah, I’ve also had to refresh the page often… Jotspot allows your browser to cache the pages… strange that they would do so, given the nature of wikis, but then, I’m sure there’s a good reason.

 

The screen-cast was interesting… you can do incredible things with jotspot! Although the demo of including your own forms for collecting data shows that it’s still a long way from being usable by people new to wiki’s etc (having to code in a WIKI XML language! Although he did mention that they want to make it WYSIWYG also).

-Mick

[Leigh Blackall]

I'm using the wiki lots now. I'm about to go through a massive amount of del.icio.us/uwscourseware links and start building them into something more usable on the wiki.

The thing that interested me is the ability of jot (with some programing) to capture or even aggregate information... do you think you could do that Mike?

On 4/26/05, Nelson, Michael <Michael...@tafensw.edu.au> wrote:

Yeah, I've also had to refresh the page often… Jotspot allows your browser to cache the pages… strange that they would do so, given the nature of wikis, but then, I'm sure there's a good reason.

 

The screen-cast was interesting… you can do incredible things with jotspot! Although the demo of including your own forms for collecting data shows that it's still a long way from being usable by people new to wiki's etc (having to code in a WIKI XML language! Although he did mention that they want to make it WYSIWYG also).

-Mick

 

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From: Leigh Blackall [mailto:leighb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 01:55

To: Blended...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Blended Learning] Re: Back to the Wiki

 

No, the problem was that I needed to refresh the jotspot after logging in... after a refresh (including every jot page in cache) I am able to edit... hmmm.
Mike, I think this screencast of Jot will interest you quite a bit.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/gems/jot2.swf

On 4/26/05, Nelson, Michael < Michael...@tafensw.edu.au> wrote:

Bummer that it's not open source ( socialtext.com that is).

[Michael Nelson]

Yeah definitely... the screencast shows quite clearly how to do it. The only thing that worries me is that it's then _really_ complicated when other people go to edit the page, but we could make that page non-editable to others to save them the scare :)

What were you thinking of?

On Tue, 2005-04-26 at 16:36 +1000, Leigh Blackall wrote:

I'm using the wiki lots now. I'm about to go through a massive amount of del.icio.us/uwscourseware links and start building them into something more usable on the wiki.

The thing that interested me is the ability of jot (with some programing) to capture or even aggregate information... do you think you could do that Mike?

On 4/26/05, Nelson, Michael <Michael...@tafensw.edu.au> wrote:

Yeah, I've also had to refresh the page often… Jotspot allows your browser to cache the pages… strange that they would do so, given the nature of wikis, but then, I'm sure there's a good reason.

 

The screen-cast was interesting… you can do incredible things with jotspot! Although the demo of including your own forms for collecting data shows that it's still a long way from being usable by people new to wiki's etc (having to code in a WIKI XML language! Although he did mention that they want to make it WYSIWYG also).

-Mick

 

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From: Leigh Blackall [mailto:leighb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 01:55


To: Blended...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Blended Learning] Re: Back to the Wiki


 

No, the problem was that I needed to refresh the jotspot after logging in... after a refresh (including every jot page in cache) I am able to edit... hmmm.
Mike, I think this screencast of Jot will interest you quite a bit.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/gems/jot2.swf




On 4/26/05, Nelson, Michael <Michael...@tafensw.edu.au> wrote:

Bummer that it's not open source (socialtext.com that is).

[Leigh Blackall]

Well.. a while back Sean suggested that we create a group webfavs so each of us could throw links up, I came back saying it would be hard to manage another webfavs on top of the personal ones we already keep, I suggested that we get the RSS to feed each of our links to a central place. Perhaps a page on the wiki could be that central aggregator. It would subscribe to the RSS of each of our webfavs, blogs etc. Then we would have at least an uneditable page streaming with info, for us to then take from and build a site from...

Watyathink?

[Michael Nelson]

Sounds good! Would be a good little activity to test out this functionality in JotSpot too.

You can do this kinda thing with normal sites too, using a free service like:
http://jade.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/feed/

It doesn't combine feeds, but displays any feed on your page with a little bit of JavaScript.

[Michael Nelson]

Hi all,

I've been working on our Drupal site (provided by IncSub) basically to test out how it works and learn a bit more, but I've also been using the opportunity to begin building on a CreativeCommons resource for use in Professional Development activities: Getting Started with Blogging in Education.

If you get a chance, please have a browse of the workshop/webquest at:
http://incsub.org/blendedlearning/

You don't need to login or anything complicated but you can add comments on each individual page if you want to. I've only modified/updated the overview and first 2 pages so far, but it should be enough to get the idea... and evaluate whether you think it might be worthwhile etc. This resource will only be a small part of a final site (if we go ahead with it), but atm I've configured the site for simplicity so that "Getting Started with Blogging in Education" is all that is displayed on the site.

If you're really keen, you can register and update the page yourself (if you see something that you really hate ;-), just click on the login link at top-right)

-Michael.

[Leigh Blackall]

greta work michael! I've added a few comments just so you know I'm still in. And, I'll be using your work tomorrow morning when I give a little talk to a group of academics in the study of early childhood. I'll be talking about blogs as possible tools for journal based learning and assessment, and mentioning Creative Commons content and wikis. Your drupal adaptation of Trevor's work is a great and REAL example of resource sharing and reuse. Never mind SCORM, and repositories, licensing is where its at, the key to sharability and reuse. The fact that its digital is enough for repurposing...

[Michael Nelson]

Hi Leigh,

I've made lots of updates based on your comments (making the pages more task focused - less conversational, less use of headings/bold etc).

Links are still bolded - but this is due to the stylesheet, not my doing... we can change if necessary, but it will affect the style of the whole site (I checked other themes and most decent looking ones use bold similarly... let me know if there's a theme you'd prefer). I have made the links to the statistics on the initial discussion page much smaller (hopefully meaning they are less relevant and don't need to be clicked on).

The only thing I haven't done is swapped the Outline with the intro discussion... i want to talk about this a bit further, especially regarding who the target audience is. I'm thinking that most people who find this activity on their own, wouldn't need this activity... if you get me. I was always imagining the target audience for this specific activity to be mainly (but not restricted to) educators who are coming along to a PD activity to learn about free tools such as blogs. Hence the 'discussion'-type intro that can be helpful in the classroom to learn about each other's backgrounds in elearning etc.

It's strange... creating this resource for people who aren't used to the distributed/unstructured nature of the web has made me go back to creating very structured step-by-step points for each task... feels strange! Normally with my students i'd be getting them to create the steps themselves! As a small consolation, I have removed all the links in Trevor's original webquest and made it part of the activity for participants to find good links using a search engine... hope it works.

I'll get a chance to use it in a few weeks with a group from TAFE. Let me know whether the changes I've made help the issues you identified.

-Michael

[Leigh Blackall]

the changes are great mike, and I've quickly added some more comments... am rushing at the moment, but will be back in there. Jude made a great suggestion also..
Regards
Leigh

[Leigh Blackall]

the changes are great mike, and I've quickly added some more comments... am rushing at the moment, but will be back in there. Jude made a great suggestion also..
Regards
Leigh