Forbidden and Available Fruit
gilbertsmith
> > new gifs, which are *not* there, thank you very much, I try some old
>
> But they are! There are four of them, with descriptions like Virgils4
> (Wordslers in NY), Breakfast in San Diego, Natalie and James Dean in Tree,
> and Phoenix Sign. Three of them are the last three on the list. The other
> one is the last one on the Wordslers in NY list, several gifs above.
>
I meant the ones that -abh has just sent in. Where are they?
And, I'm giving the exam on Sunday because it is the only day I can
get my <distance> learners together without conflicts. For snacks
between testing sessions, we have obleas. Since it's Sunday.
I have given this class by videocassette about 15 times. I am pure-
dee sick of it. They keep talking about what I did in class, and
that was three years ago and I cant bear to go back and watch it. I
probably made mistakes and scratched and made rude noises.
--ggs
Natalie Maynor
> --ggs
Check San Diego breakfast.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Karen Kay
> True enough. I've heard that almost all Americans who've been to Europe
> have read Verdant's books and we know that most Americans have been to
> Europe, therefore most Americans know who Verdant is. Ergo, she's famous.
> Q.E.D.
Not everyone knows who my friend Don is. But he certainly has to worry
about his privacy--he's had stalkers and stuff. He's a lot more
visible than Janet is because he's on TV regularly, and his photo
often appears w/ his columns. From what he says, it ain't fun.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Natalie Maynor
> new gifs, which are *not* there, thank you very much, I try some old
But they are! There are four of them, with descriptions like Virgils4
(Wordslers in NY), Breakfast in San Diego, Natalie and James Dean in Tree,
and Phoenix Sign. Three of them are the last three on the list. The other
one is the last one on the Wordslers in NY list, several gifs above.
> ones, and on the following, I get the message:
>
> FORBIDDEN 403
> Your client does not have permission to get .... from this server.
>
> AOBD, Alec and JMW, Nancy and John H....
Hmmm. Have I screwed that one up at some point? I'll check it. But if
the thunder zaps my computer while I'm checking, it's going to be all
Giggles's fault.
> Trying Sharon and abh, they come in loud and clear. Does this mean
> that they are <easy>????
>
> After this, I gave up. What is this forbidden sh*t? I've never been
> so insulted in all my life.
It's because you made fun of my tale/tail.
> --ggs, waiting for the students to finish the hardest midterm I ever
> gave.... One (student) down, three to go.
Why are you giving an exam on a Sunday??
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Natalie Maynor
Those are the ones: Virgils4, Breakfast in SD, Natalie and JD in Tree,
Phoenix Sign.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
gilbertsmith
--ggs
picture, and that does *not* prove that anybody even exists. This
has all been an enormous put-on, and certain California wordslers
have been accomplices to pulling some wool over some gullible eyes.
I never.
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
>picture, and that does *not* prove that anybody even exists. This
>has all been an enormous put-on, and certain California wordslers
>have been accomplices to pulling some wool over some gullible eyes.
>I never.
Just booted up the computer, set to mail, and started reading.
As you may recall, I've been to San Francisco for my 50th birthday.
Had a wonderful time -- more later when the wash is done and the cats
are given some lovin'.
I'm way behind on words-l. But I came across this post and had to
answer I am not a California wordslers, in fact or in feality. However,
I met Verdant last Thursday.
She is very definitely female, quite pleasant, articulate, and has the
light of high intelligence in her eyes. She has good reason for using
a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
drawing that was copied to a gif. Fame is not always pleasant and
can invade privacy.
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
gilbertsmith
> light of high intelligence in her eyes. She has good reason for using
> a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
> drawing that was copied to a gif. Fame is not always pleasant and
> can invade privacy.
>
Yeah, right. And I'm the President of the United States.
--hst, that is
Marie Tomlinson
> a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
> drawing that was copied to a gif. Fame is not always pleasant and
> can invade privacy.
Is Verdant famous? Ohmygod a famous person! I wouldn't even have heard
of _The Bottoming Book_ and _The Sexually Dominant Woman_ had they not
been advertised here. Intriguing titles, but I wouldn't say their author
is famous. I can imagine why she wouldn't want to put her photo on her
books and I can imagine why a person wouldn't send a gif of themselves
after having advertised being an author of said books. But why send
anything at all then?
Marie
gilbertsmith
> of _The Bottoming Book_ and _The Sexually Dominant Woman_ had they not
> been advertised here. Intriguing titles, but I wouldn't say their author
> is famous. I can imagine why she wouldn't want to put her photo on her
> books and I can imagine why a person wouldn't send a gif of themselves
> after having advertised being an author of said books. But why send
> anything at all then?
>
> Marie
>
Marie honey, what do you think? Do they wash their hands?
--ggs
Marie Tomlinson
> Marie honey, what do you think? Do they wash their hands?
> --ggs
I'm not out to start a flame war; it's not my style. But, Myles told me
recently that in The Brady Bunch Movie they have in their bathroom all
the basic stuff -- shower, sink, etc.-- but *no toilet!* You know, of
course, Bradys don't shit. Nuns, they don't either.
Marie
Natalie Maynor
And I was in Knoxville on your 50th birthday!
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Natalie Maynor
> after having advertised being an author of said books. But why send
> anything at all then?
She didn't. They gif came from farther away than California -- but same
general direction.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Anne Harwell
>light of high intelligence in her eyes. She has good reason for using
>a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
Yeah, like people might buy the book more readily for some reason I don't
know what that might be?
-abh
Norman Hill
>
> Kevin Costner.
>
> We don't know Verdant or her books, doesn't mean that others don't consider
her
> famous.
True enough. I've heard that almost all Americans who've been to Europe
have read Verdant's books and we know that most Americans have been to
Europe, therefore most Americans know who Verdant is. Ergo, she's famous.
Q.E.D.
Norman
Lisa Alfieri
>have read Verdant's books and we know that most Americans have been to
>Europe, therefore most Americans know who Verdant is. Ergo, she's famous.
>Q.E.D.
> Norman
<laugh>!!! You're too funny Norman!!!
lisa
Karen Kay
> ps: Just looked at Verdant. Give me a break. Anybody can draw a
> picture, and that does *not* prove that anybody even exists. This
> has all been an enormous put-on, and certain California wordslers
> have been accomplices to pulling some wool over some gullible eyes.
Have I ever lied to you, Gilbert?
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Karen Kay
> Is Verdant famous? Ohmygod a famous person! I wouldn't even have heard
> been advertised here. Intriguing titles, but I wouldn't say their author
> is famous.
She and her partner, Jay, are extremely well known in <some> circles.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Karen Kay
No, so she won't be recognized on the street from the photograph on
her book covers. Sheesh. Is your clue store closed for the weekend?
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
gilbertsmith
new gifs, which are *not* there, thank you very much, I try some old
FORBIDDEN 403
Your client does not have permission to get .... from this server.
AOBD, Alec and JMW, Nancy and John H....
Trying Sharon and abh, they come in loud and clear. Does this mean
that they are <easy>????
After this, I gave up. What is this forbidden sh*t? I've never been
so insulted in all my life.
Lisa Alfieri
Who's to say what constitutes fame? Natalie didn't know John Malkovich or
Kevin Costner.
We don't know Verdant or her books, doesn't mean that others don't consider her
famous.
lisa
>Marie
Graham Toal
>I met Verdant last Thursday.
>
>a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers.
Such as few terminally hip S&M studs want to buy a book with a picture
of a fat old person on the cover? (Except those for whom that's their
<special thing>, and they've already got Stella to fill that role...)
G
Graham Toal
>On Sun, 9 Jul 1995, Bonnie M. Voigtlander wrote:
>> a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
>> drawing that was copied to a gif. Fame is not always pleasant and
>> can invade privacy.
>
>been advertised here.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For the slow of thinking, this is a typically subtle words-l reproach
that perhaps advertising on our mailing list is not a suitable use of
words-l. They're just too polite to point it out more strongly...
G
PS Talking of famous authors, I think I've finally twigged who David
Chaos really was... is he still around anywhere on the net for me
to pull his leg about it?
Graham Toal
>recently that in The Brady Bunch Movie they have in their bathroom all
>the basic stuff -- shower, sink, etc.-- but *no toilet!* You know, of
>course, Bradys don't shit. Nuns, they don't either.
Neither does the Queen.
G
Karen Kay
> PS Talking of famous authors, I think I've finally twigged who David
> Chaos really was... is he still around anywhere on the net for me
> to pull his leg about it?
I don't know, but could you share?
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Karen Kay
> Such as few terminally hip S&M studs want to buy a book with a picture
> of a fat old person on the cover?
What makes you call her fat and old? That's not my impression.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
><special thing>, and they've already got Stella to fill that role...)
>
>G
I actually don't know too much about this sort of thing but I would
hypothesize that if one was the sort that liked being submissive,
humiliated, and abused it wouldn't matter much if the abuse was
coming from the hands of a 25-year-old thin woman or an obese crone.
In fact, the latter might be more abusive!
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
>
>Neither does the Queen.
>
>G
True story: In one of the convent bathrooms there was a pack of matches
lying on the toilet top. Nuns do not smoke. The matches were so that
the sulphur smell of lighting the match whould mask the smell of
excrement.
So, not only do nuns shit, their shit smells!
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
Janet W. Hardy
: picture, and that does *not* prove that anybody even exists. This
: has all been an enormous put-on, and certain California wordslers
: have been accomplices to pulling some wool over some gullible eyes.
I don't allow my photograph to be printed in conjunction with my pen name
-- too many clueless and horny submissive men, as well as God-fearing
fundies, in the world.
OTOH, I have a TIF around here somewhere scanned from a Xerox taken as I
sat on the machine (used it on my 39th b-day invitation, with the
headline "Is This The Butt Of A 39-Year-Old Woman?") -- will that do?
Verdant
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ecstasy: A state * Greenery Press publishes "The Sexually Dominant Woman"
of being beyond * & "The Bottoming Book." E-mail catalog available or
reason & control" * send SASE to 3739 Balboa #195, San Francisco, CA 94121.
Janet W. Hardy
: of _The Bottoming Book_ and _The Sexually Dominant Woman_ had they not
: is famous. I can imagine why she wouldn't want to put her photo on her
: books and I can imagine why a person wouldn't send a gif of themselves
: after having advertised being an author of said books. But why send
: anything at all then?
I didn't send it -- someone scanned it out of "The Sexually Dominant
Woman." (Who's been buying my stuff and not admitting to it publicly???)
Janet W. Hardy
: >a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers. It was this
: Yeah, like people might buy the book more readily for some reason I don't
: know what that might be?
Ooo-ooo. Anne thinks I'm ugly! Anne thinks I'm ugly!
Verdant
amused
Janet W. Hardy
: >light of high intelligence in her eyes. She has good reason for using
: >a drawing rather than a photograph on her book covers.
: Such as few terminally hip S&M studs want to buy a book with a picture
: of a fat old person on the cover? (Except those for whom that's their
: <special thing>, and they've already got Stella to fill that role...)
First time I've ever been compared to the notorious STella -- the crone's
crone.
Not sure how I feel about it.
Verdant
Janet W. Hardy
: >of _The Bottoming Book_ and _The Sexually Dominant Woman_ had they not
: >been advertised here.
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: For the slow of thinking, this is a typically subtle words-l reproach
: that perhaps advertising on our mailing list is not a suitable use of
: words-l. They're just too polite to point it out more strongly...
My .sig file is automatically appended to all my posts. I know better
than to think any wordsler would allow him- or herself to be caught dead
ordering a book from me.
Janet W. Hardy
: hypothesize that if one was the sort that liked being submissive,
: humiliated, and abused it wouldn't matter much if the abuse was
: coming from the hands of a 25-year-old thin woman or an obese crone.
: In fact, the latter might be more abusive!
I'm not sure "obese" matters much, but there are many submissive men who
are specifically attracted to older women. It's far from unknown for
professional dominants to go on working successfully well into their 60s.
Natalie Maynor
> > Such as few terminally hip S&M studs want to buy a book with a picture
> > of a fat old person on the cover?
>
> Karen
Graham is working hard to make up for all of that lost list time. While
he's been ignoring us, people like Nipper have been sneaking up on his
position.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Natalie Maynor
>
> Neither does the Queen.
But Celia does. Speaking of J. Swift, which I think we were earlier.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
gilbertsmith
>
> Karen
>
I still think this Verdant thing is a monumental put-on probably
concocted by somebody like Rita Rouvalis.
--ggs
Karen Kay
> I'm trying to remember.... uh.... maybe not.
> I still think this Verdant thing is a monumental put-on probably
> concocted by somebody like Rita Rouvalis.
No, no, *NATALIE* concocted the Rita scam!
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Paul Kuritz
> > She is very definitely female, quite pleasant, articulate, and has the
> > light of high intelligence in her eyes. She has good reason for using
> > drawing that was copied to a gif. Fame is not always pleasant and
> > can invade privacy.
> >
>
> Yeah, right. And I'm the President of the United States.
> --hst, that is
>
I listened to TRUMAN on the way back to Maine. Lamar is his birthplace
McCulloch also wrote the book on the Johnstown Flood.
p
Karen Kay
> Same thought here. Except for this troubling thing with Karen reporting
> seeing the tattoo on her <bosom> I'd be sold on the idea.
Bonnie and Betty saw it, too. It's not EXACTLY on her bosom. But it
sure is gorgeous. Maybe a little rococo for your taste, but certainly
beautiful.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
Janet W. Hardy
: >
: > Karen
: >
: I'm trying to remember.... uh.... maybe not.
: I still think this Verdant thing is a monumental put-on probably
: concocted by somebody like Rita Rouvalis.
If we were putting you on, we'd do *much* better. I'd have posted a photo
of Domina Veruschka to the list.
BTW, looks like I'm going to be speaking in LA in mid-August, and
possibly in Portland and Seattle early in October, if anybody wants to
see me do my schtick (or have a beer before or afterwards).
Janet W. Hardy
: >sure is gorgeous. Maybe a little rococo for your taste, but certainly
: >beautiful.
: Betty and I obviously have zero credibility on this list.
I will be more than happy to flash my tits at anybody who cares to come
to San Francisco to see them.
Rita M. Rouvalis
gilbertsmith <GSM...@SOCIAL.CHASS.NCSU.EDU> wrote:
>I still think this Verdant thing is a monumental put-on probably
>concocted by somebody like Rita Rouvalis.
Why giggles, my love. I had no idea you of thought of me
in that way. Why, I'm just a barefoot, pregnant, mid-west housewife
who drives a battered pickup truck.
BTW, I would like you to do something for me. I would
like you to out and look at the front of your Miata and tell me
whether or not it reminds you of a teenage mutan ninja turtle.
And don't forget your tit clamps while you do it.
--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman, Zines Archivist
____________________________________________________________________
ri...@etext.org
Anne Harwell
>I still think this Verdant thing is a monumental put-on probably
>concocted by somebody like Rita Rouvalis.
Same thought here. Except for this troubling thing with Karen reporting
seeing the tattoo on her <bosom> I'd be sold on the idea.
-abh
gilbertsmith
> seeing the tattoo on her <bosom> I'd be sold on the idea.
>
> -abh
>
lying about something very important.
--ggs
gilbertsmith
>
Around here, that's commonly referred to as <chopped> liver.
--ggs
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
Thank you for that clarification. I suppose that explains why you also
dismissed out-of-hand my claim that there are gambling casions in
Cherokee. I do live closer to Cherokee than you do. But then I'm
only a figment of the internet imagination to you!
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
gilbertsmith
> dismissed out-of-hand my claim that there are gambling casions in
> Cherokee. I do live closer to Cherokee than you do. But then I'm
> only a figment of the internet imagination to you!
>
First of all, I did not *dismiss* out of hand your "claim"... I
perceived you to be saying that you *thought* there were casinos.
Second(ly), I am the slot machine expert on this list, so whatever I
say is true with regard to (with respect to???) casinos.
Third(ly), I thought you lived in the Yukon or somewhere. Now it is
becoming apparent that you are just over the mountains and I'm going
to start locking my doors at night.
Fourth(ly), what does living closer to Cherokee have to do with it?
My great-great-great-grandmother's third cousin twice removed was a
Cherokee princess. That qualifies me as an expert on things like
this.
Where has my life gone?
--ggs, List Slot
Paul Kuritz
> >
> >> Betty and I obviously have zero credibility on this list.
> >> bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
> >>
> >
> >Around here, that's commonly referred to as <chopped> liver.
> >--ggs
>
>
> dismissed out-of-hand my claim that there are gambling casions in
> Cherokee. I do live closer to Cherokee than you do. But then I'm
> only a figment of the internet imagination to you!
>
>
>
> bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
>
Bonnie was very nice at the virtual e-nic, although she never mentioned
that she had chopped liver.
p
Paul Kuritz
> headline "Is This The Butt Of A 39-Year-Old Woman?") -- will that do?
>
> Verdant
>
p
Paul Kuritz
> : >Bonnie and Betty saw it, too. It's not EXACTLY on her bosom. But it
> : >sure is gorgeous. Maybe a little rococo for your taste, but certainly
> : >beautiful.
> : >
> : Betty and I obviously have zero credibility on this list.
>
> I will be more than happy to flash my tits at anybody who cares to come
> to San Francisco to see them.
>
> Verdant
> --
Sure, make the offer after I drive 2000 miles in four days and end up in
Maine!
p
Janet W. Hardy
: > to San Francisco to see them.
: Sure, make the offer after I drive 2000 miles in four days and end up in
: Maine!
And you probably didn't even get to see any tits. You'll have to plan
more carefully next time.
verdant
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
>that she had chopped liver.
>
>p
<am> chopped liver, not <had>
Thank you, Paul. I'm not allowed to bring liver into the house. Clyde had
it put in the small print on the marriage certificate.
Paid $2.75 for cappucino in San Francisco. But that wasn't as out of line
as the $6.50 for a bowl of raisin bran with raspberries! Don't care, though.
I had a great time! Next year Bar Harbor.
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
Nancy Harwood
> Thank you, Paul. I'm not allowed to bring liver into the house. Clyde had
> it put in the small print on the marriage certificate.
I can identify with that. I think ours also contains clauses about not
touching the thermostat and not squeezing the toothpaste in the middle.
ndh
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
>becoming apparent that you are just over the mountains and I'm going
>to start locking my doors at night.
Good idea!
>
>Fourth(ly), what does living closer to Cherokee have to do with it?
My proximity could mean that I actually know people who frequent these
casinos.
>Where has my life gone?
>--ggs, List Slot
At some point you actually <had> a life?
--
bonniev, crone/sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
Lisa Alfieri
>touching the thermostat and not squeezing the toothpaste in the middle.
>ndh
Who called for these to be added you or Joe?
lisa
Janet W. Hardy
: > it put in the small print on the marriage certificate.
One of my sweetest memories of my ex-husband was when I was pregnant --
still quite willing to *eat* liver (which I enjoy) but unable to stomach
the smell of it cooking. He'd send me out into the yard and cook the
liver, then call me back in when it was ready to eat. To this day, he
does liver better than I do.
Verdant
Hiroshi Amari
: : >Is Verdant famous? Ohmygod a famous person! I wouldn't even have heard
: : >of _The Bottoming Book_ and _The Sexually Dominant Woman_ had they not
: : >been advertised here.
: : For the slow of thinking, this is a typically subtle words-l reproach
: : that perhaps advertising on our mailing list is not a suitable use of
: : words-l. They're just too polite to point it out more strongly...
: My .sig file is automatically appended to all my posts. I know better
: than to think any wordsler would allow him- or herself to be caught dead
: ordering a book from me.
But your .sig file can be deleted during composition after it is appended
to your note. You once indicated that the advertisement saturate soon in a
newsgroup. Then, I hope you consider stopping posting your notes with the
Ecstasy-Sexually Dominant-The Bottoming Book ads.
I must say I have found your .sig file unpleasant, because your .sig file
is more than an ad. It is a constant reminder of what you are and what
you are interested in that discussions get sidetracked to sexual
conversations. When your sig. file saturates this list, any lurker
gets the impression that this list is also about sex and S/M.
As Natalie noted earlier, your analogy that this list is like a 9-11 (or
9-5) workplace and we have to treat you with due respect is not convincing.
You are not paid being here. You do not have to show up all the weekdays.
It is more like casual conversation in a park and you are a sandwich
woman with the ad here. We treat you for what you are and you say. There
are great many lists and newsgroups around, so that it is legitimate that
we complain about the contents of your posts if we find them to be
inappropriate. Any one of us has to respect the group dynamics here and we
do have interests to keep it as it is or improve it.
As you know, we do meet each other and get together. We thoroughly enjoyed
Wordstock, because we found one another interesting, funny and
attractive. It is difficult to recruit this type of people in any other
ways than through the discussion here.
We are like cows and sheep that trust one another (stupidly?). We easily
fall victim to predators. Personally, I do not want to share a room with
S/M people.
Please understand that I do not want to downplay the contents of your
postings. I just would like you to consider the effects your .sig file has on
the group. We would like to see the enjoyable and carefree words-l
gatherings for the years to come. It is this nature that I suggest you to
take a moment to this about.
Thanks.
--
Hiroshi Amari
Hiroshi Amari
: explain to me a relatively simple way of doing so. Your statement,
: Hiroshi, that I can simply erase it from the finished post is not true --
: it gets added on after I have already pressed the Ctrl-X combination to
: send the post. (This would not be so if I accessed the list via e-mail
: rather than Usenet, but when I did that people bitched at me because my
: e-mail header has my "Lady Green" pseudonym instead of my given name.)
I can erase it in the Usenet, but you may be using another type of
newsreader. My opinion may be extreme, since I worry about the worst cases.
I feel more comfortable with "Lady Green."
Hiroshi Amari
know that the aritlcle automatically shows the information of the
cited note, including the author.
Hiroshi Amari
Janet W. Hardy
: fall victim to predators. Personally, I do not want to share a room with
: S/M people.
I *am* an S/M person, Hiroshi, regardless of the contents of my .sig
file. Moreover, I am far from the only one on this list, although
several others maintain a lower profile. If you "do not want to share a
room with S/M people," I suggest you killfile me. Before you do so,
however, allow me to point out that your statement is exactly as bigoted
as saying you "do not want to share a room with gays and lesbians."
If you are comparing me to a "predator," the metaphor is both untrue and
highly offensive -- as absurdly stereotypical as the "yellow menace"
caricatures of Japanese during World War II. If you take the time to
learn anything about the ethics of the S/M community, you will learn that
its paramount value is consent. If you read my books, you will discover
that I spend my life teaching standards of consent and negotiation that
most non-S/M folk would consider absurd.
I am an S/M person -- my S/M orientation is central to my identity. I am
also a woman, a mother, a writer, a former advertising professional, a
decent cook, a polyamorist (although I hate the word), bisexual, a
publisher and an educator. If all you see of me is my S/M orientation,
you're missing an awful lot.
Hiroshi Amari
: : fall victim to predators. Personally, I do not want to share a room with
: : S/M people.
: I *am* an S/M person, Hiroshi, regardless of the contents of my .sig
: file. Moreover, I am far from the only one on this list, although
: several others maintain a lower profile. If you "do not want to share a
: room with S/M people," I suggest you killfile me. Before you do so,
: however, allow me to point out that your statement is exactly as bigoted
: as saying you "do not want to share a room with gays and lesbians."
Choosing a roommate concerns compatibility in lifestyles. Some people do
not want to share a room with a musician. I do not want to see S/M people
*doing* S/M acts in a shared room, which I should have added smiley marks or
something because it was not central to the note.
: If you are comparing me to a "predator," the metaphor is both untrue and
: highly offensive -- as absurdly stereotypical as the "yellow menace"
: caricatures of Japanese during World War II.
No. I did not mean to. I was thinking about potential inclusion of new
criminals, sex-offenders, and so on. I was afraid that the recurring ads
attract these people. That's is why I stressed the impression that a
lurker would get.
Hiroshi Amari
Janet W. Hardy
: : several others maintain a lower profile. If you "do not want to share a
: : room with S/M people," I suggest you killfile me. Before you do so,
: : however, allow me to point out that your statement is exactly as bigoted
: : as saying you "do not want to share a room with gays and lesbians."
: Choosing a roommate concerns compatibility in lifestyles. Some people do
: not want to share a room with a musician. I do not want to see S/M people
: *doing* S/M acts in a shared room, which I should have added smiley marks or
: something because it was not central to the note.
Okay, I promise never to do consensual erotic power exchange in Words-L.
: : If you are comparing me to a "predator," the metaphor is both untrue and
: : highly offensive -- as absurdly stereotypical as the "yellow menace"
: : caricatures of Japanese during World War II.
: No. I did not mean to. I was thinking about potential inclusion of new
: criminals, sex-offenders, and so on. I was afraid that the recurring ads
: attract these people. That's is why I stressed the impression that a
: lurker would get.
Your fear is, I believe, unjustified. A criminal or sex offender does
not typically seek out literature on how to negotiate and safely perform
consensual sexual activity.
Janet W. Hardy
explain to me a relatively simple way of doing so. Your statement,
Hiroshi, that I can simply erase it from the finished post is not true --
it gets added on after I have already pressed the Ctrl-X combination to
send the post. (This would not be so if I accessed the list via e-mail
rather than Usenet, but when I did that people bitched at me because my
e-mail header has my "Lady Green" pseudonym instead of my given name.)
Verdant
Rashmi
>
> Jinny Jones said:
> > Are you saying that desires to inflict pain or to experience pain are
> > normal and healthy??
> >
> > jinny, just back from a trip to the dentist
>
> Are you saying your dentist is unnatural?
Back in my impressionable (and judgemental) youth, I was sure
anyone who wanted to be a dentist had to be nuts. Or _really_
strange. Why else'd anyone choose to peer into other people's
(possibly diseased) mouths all day?
Ick.
-rashmi
Natalie Maynor
> is more than an ad. It is a constant reminder of what you are and what
Hmmm. I haven't even noticed Verdant's .sig file. Maybe I'll do so.
I don't pay any attention to .sig files that are more than a single line
unless they're a picture of something interesting.
> As Natalie noted earlier, your analogy that this list is like a 9-11 (or
> 9-5) workplace and we have to treat you with due respect is not convincing.
Did I say that? I don't remember it, but that's ok. I do suffer from
brainrot. I might have said it since it does sound like something I think.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Rashmi
>
> : > BTW, looks like I'm going to be speaking in LA in mid-August, and
> : > possibly in Portland and Seattle early in October, if anybody wants to
> : > see me do my schtick (or have a beer before or afterwards).
>
> : Will you be wearing a mask?
>
> Nope -- I do speaking engagements with a naked face.
Question that came to my mind on reading your original post
was "Groucho glasses or purdah?"
-rashmi, who on seeing the "pushups" subject line thought we
were having a discussion on the WonderBra
Bookrat
> menacing in Ohio.
> --
>
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman, Zines Archivist
Where is Vehicular Menacing, Ohio? Is it anywhere near Akron? And just
what is it that you engage there?
Ken Miller
Orthoepist-in-Residence
San Ho-ZAY Institute for Geoonomatoorthoepy
boo...@bookrat.com
Rashmi
>
> > I must say I have found your .sig file unpleasant, because your .sig file
> > is more than an ad. It is a constant reminder of what you are and what
>
> Hmmm. I haven't even noticed Verdant's .sig file. Maybe I'll do so.
> I don't pay any attention to .sig files that are more than a single line
> unless they're a picture of something interesting.
ROFL! Natalie is priceless.
-rashmi
Anne Harwell
>rather than Usenet, but when I did that people bitched at me because my
>e-mail header has my "Lady Green" pseudonym instead of my given name.)
Well then use mail and delete your pseudonym from your mail name. Or get
rid of the spam .sig file. I agree with Hiroshi, the sig file is unwanted
advertising, not to mention damned rude.
-abh
Natalie Maynor
> > I don't pay any attention to .sig files that are more than a single line
> > unless they're a picture of something interesting.
>
> ROFL! Natalie is priceless.
Uhhh, what's funny in what I said? I have always disliked long .sig files
and therefore simply don't read them. I thought all active e-mailers had
eyes trained to block out certain kinds of things. I have my mail set up
to automatically pop up the next piece after I've acted on the previous
one (as in deleting or whatever), which means that it's inconvenient to
delete new mail without even letting the first screen hop up, but I find
it quite easy for my eyes to ignore it if it's something I consider worthy
of being deleted unread -- something on a list thread I'm not following
or Wild babblings or whatever. Even though they're on my screen, my eyes
don't really focus on them. The same is true for long .sig files. They're
there, but not there.
--Natalie (may...@ra.msstate.edu)
Janet W. Hardy
If I were to do the first, I would have to change my pseudonym status
back and forth every time I sent a message, depending on whether or not I
was responding in my authorial or my personal capacity. I am not willing
to do that to protect your tender sensibilities.
I have *never* heard of a four-line sig being considered "rude" --
throughout the 'Net it is considered within the boundaries of acceptable
self-promotion -- but I have offered twice now to delete it if someone
will explain how that can be done. If you don't have a solution, I'm not
interested in hearing further complaints.
Janet W. Hardy
: : consensual sexual activity.
: What's the heck, then, is "Ecstacy: A state of being beyond reason &
: control" in your .sig file?
A definition from Webster's.
: Do we expect serious literature out of this?
I never claimed to write serious literature. I do write excellent
educational sexuality nonfiction.
: Some criminals and sex offenders do not have any control. It could well
: *attract* those people.
If so, they will order my books and be *seriously* disappointed.
: I am also using tin newsreader. I can delete my .sig file in the Usenet.
: I do not see why you cannot.
I can eliminate my .sig file entirely but am not willing to do so -- I
post frequently in the sexuality newsgroups and it represents an
important source of business for me. If you can suggest a way that I can
delete it on an individual basis, I will do so. Otherwise, I am not
Janet W. Hardy
: : explain to me a relatively simple way of doing so. Your statement,
: : Hiroshi, that I can simply erase it from the finished post is not true --
: : it gets added on after I have already pressed the Ctrl-X combination to
: : send the post. (This would not be so if I accessed the list via e-mail
: : e-mail header has my "Lady Green" pseudonym instead of my given name.)
: I can erase it in the Usenet, but you may be using another type of
: newsreader. My opinion may be extreme, since I worry about the worst cases.
: I feel more comfortable with "Lady Green."
My newsreader is tin -- perhaps someone else here can suggest a
strategy. I would prefer to stay in Usenet if possible... there are
killfiles here...
gilbertsmith
> menacing in Ohio.
> --
>
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman, Zines Archivist
>
last name was *not* Chapman. Or is this just another figment? This
is not really rita talking: this is a trick played on us by Miss
Verdant what's-her-name to compound the joke. That's what it is.
Ohio Oschmio...... Tell me exactly where and I'll come see whether
it is true or not. And I won't be the only one.
Would you like to offer any interesting information about your ...
uh... sexual <asianation>? This is the week for it.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
--ggs
Janet W. Hardy
: threaten us to give you a solution?
Threaten???
: Please protect our tender
: sensibilities.
Protect your own damn sensibilities. Killfile me or delete my posts.
: : I have *never* heard of a four-line sig being considered "rude" --
: : throughout the 'Net it is considered within the boundaries of acceptable
: : self-promotion -- but I have offered twice now to delete it if someone
: : will explain how that can be done. If you don't have a solution, I'm not
: : interested in hearing further complaints.
: This is not a sex-related newsgroup. Some of us find your constant
: whispering of sex and S/M in .sig annoying and disturbing. You are
: degrading this list.
"Some of us"? *You* find it annoying and disturbing. I am degrading
nothing except, perhaps, myself... in continuing to converse with those who
know little and are willing to learn less about anybody who doesn't live
the way they do.
: I still do not understand why you cannot erase .sig in your tin newsreader.
Because I have a living to earn, dipshit. Unlike most of the folks on
this list, who receive a nice paycheck twice a month regardless of
whether or not they've earned it, if I don't sell books I don't eat. A
four-line sig is within the bounds of every netiquette standard I have
ever read or heard of, and if you don't like it you have a perfectly good
suggestion as to what to do about it.
Janet W. Hardy
: How many obscene words can you find in Webster's?
"Ecstasy" is obscene? Gosh, "bliss" must be absolutely profane.
: When I compose messages, I can delete my .sig file partially or entirely.
: That's strange.
CRL, in its <infinite> wisdom, has disabled several key functions in pine
and tin. Perhaps this is one. There is no point during my message
composition function at which the opportunity to include or delete the
.sig is offered -- it is just tagged onto the end of my message, willy-nilly.
Karen Kay
> As you know, we do meet each other and get together. We thoroughly enjoyed
> Wordstock, because we found one another interesting, funny and
> attractive.
I'd say that pretty well describes Janet.
> We are like cows and sheep that trust one another (stupidly?). We easily
> fall victim to predators. Personally, I do not want to share a room with
> S/M people.
Is karsten a predator?
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Karen Kay
> : : I would be happy to delete my .sig file from my posts if someone will
> : : explain to me a relatively simple way of doing so. Your statement,
> : : Hiroshi, that I can simply erase it from the finished post is not true --
> : : it gets added on after I have already pressed the Ctrl-X combination to
> : : send the post.
> My newsreader is tin -- perhaps someone else here can suggest a
> strategy.
What version of tin are you using? When I use tin I can see my sig as
part of my post. What editor are you using?
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Karen Kay
> What's the heck, then, is "Ecstacy: A state of being beyond reason &
> Some criminals and sex offenders do not have any control. It could well
> *attract* those people.
How do you know what will '*attract* those people'? How do you know
they may not just join the list because in addition to being a sex
offender they are also inerested in the English language? I can't see
Janet having that large an effect on list membership. If there were
several people, maybe. But not just one person.
> I am also using tin newsreader. I can delete my .sig file in the Usenet.
> I do not see why you cannot.
She's at crl.com; they are very controlling and don't allow all kinds
of things that other providers permit to be done easily. I spent a lot
of time helping her partner, Jay, with his account, and it was a very
unpleasant experience. I have no doubt that what she says is actually
the case.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
Boo Krat
>is more than an ad. It is a constant reminder of what you are and what
>conversations. When your sig. file saturates this list, any lurker
>gets the impression that this list is also about sex and S/M.
Hiroshi, if her sig offends you, STOP READING IT. And consider the fact
that everyone else reading this list has the same option.
There, isn't that simple?
Ken Miller
boo...@bookrat.com
First Amendment Nut
Michael E. Macmillan
>throughout the 'Net it is considered within the boundaries of acceptable
>self-promotion -- but I have offered twice now to delete it if someone
>will explain how that can be done. If you don't have a solution, I'm not
>interested in hearing further complaints.
>
A quick skimming of the tin man page suggests that this can be done
without much effort, though I have not attempted it myself. As I
understand it, you should be able to specify a sig file (and other
parameters) for each newsgroup to which you post. The method amounts
to creating an attributes file listing the special treatment you want
for any newsgroup. The instructions are pretty far down in the file.
Have a look at that and see if it helps.
Michael E. Macmillan
(macmillm@ewc)
Hiroshi Amari
: : : If you are comparing me to a "predator," the metaphor is both untrue and
: : : highly offensive -- as absurdly stereotypical as the "yellow menace"
: : : caricatures of Japanese during World War II.
: : No. I did not mean to. I was thinking about potential inclusion of new
: : criminals, sex-offenders, and so on. I was afraid that the recurring ads
: : attract these people. That's is why I stressed the impression that a
: : lurker would get.
: Your fear is, I believe, unjustified. A criminal or sex offender does
: not typically seek out literature on how to negotiate and safely perform
: consensual sexual activity.
What's the heck, then, is "Ecstacy: A state of being beyond reason &
control" in your .sig file? Do we expect serious literature out of this?
Some criminals and sex offenders do not have any control. It could well
*attract* those people.
I am also using tin newsreader. I can delete my .sig file in the Usenet.
I do not see why you cannot.
--
Hiroshi Amari
Hiroshi Amari
: If I were to do the first, I would have to change my pseudonym status
: back and forth every time I sent a message, depending on whether or not I
: was responding in my authorial or my personal capacity. I am not willing
: to do that to protect your tender sensibilities.
That is your problem. I would suggest you do that every time. Why do you
threaten us to give you a solution? You should ask your net provider,
since it may be specific to your local system. Please protect our tender
sensibilities.
: I have *never* heard of a four-line sig being considered "rude" --
: throughout the 'Net it is considered within the boundaries of acceptable
: self-promotion -- but I have offered twice now to delete it if someone
: will explain how that can be done. If you don't have a solution, I'm not
: interested in hearing further complaints.
This is not a sex-related newsgroup. Some of us find your constant
whispering of sex and S/M in .sig annoying and disturbing. You are
degrading this list.
I still do not understand why you cannot erase .sig in your tin newsreader.
--
Hiroshi Amari
Hiroshi Amari
: : What's the heck, then, is "Ecstacy: A state of being beyond reason &
: : control" in your .sig file?
: A definition from Webster's.
How many obscene words can you find in Webster's?
: : I am also using tin newsreader. I can delete my .sig file in the Usenet.
: : I do not see why you cannot.
: I can eliminate my .sig file entirely but am not willing to do so -- I
: post frequently in the sexuality newsgroups and it represents an
: important source of business for me. If you can suggest a way that I can
: delete it on an individual basis, I will do so. Otherwise, I am not
: interested in hearing further complaints.
When I compose messages, I can delete my .sig file partially or entirely.
That's strange.
--
Hiroshi Amari
Marty Rosen
> Well then use mail and delete your pseudonym from your mail name. Or get
> rid of the spam .sig file. I agree with Hiroshi, the sig file is unwanted
> advertising, not to mention damned rude.
>
> -abh
Hmm. The .sig doesn't bother me an iota. Who cares, after all? I don't
think Hiroshi's analysis of the effects of the .sig file on discussion is
accurate. I'll look at it again, but I think the reason Verdant-laden
threads turn to sex is to be found in the content of her posts, not the
.sig. That is, she feels a deep and well founded sense of insecurity
when discussing anything outside the relatively small and comforting area
of s/m sexuality. Thus, when the conversation regarding, say, Swift,
logic, cultural history, or whatever gets away from her, she turns it
back to an area in which she is comfortable. It's rather as if in a
discussion of human genetics I got out of my depth and switched the
conversation to consideration of the library of congress classification
system and the history and philosphy of its development (an area on which
I can speak at length, by the way).
I've observed similar phenomena in locker rooms: "You should really
consider voting for McGovern." "I got your McGovern right here!" (grabs
crotch).
Nipper
Paul Kuritz
>
> : Please protect our tender
> : sensibilities.
>
Hiroshi:
Have you ever sent this request to a male list member?
p
Betty Clark
It's not? Heather, did you lie to me?
Betty
Rashmi
A four-line sig-file is perfectly acceptable by any standards
of netiquette and the complaints registered here were totally
unwarranted. I cannot believe that the _contents_ of a sig-
file were deemed unacceptable by a segment of the group and
this was used to run someone off the list.
Hiroshi's objections to Janet's .sig were extremely far-
fetched and frankly, ludicrous. If we were concerned about
turning away lurkers and potential newbies we'd need to do
something about the phatic drivel and the pathetic poorly-
edited one-line spats that seem to take over the list at
times. The expressions about sex-offenders, criminals,
S/M predators were highly derogatory and insulting.
Is someone now going to compile a list of acceptable topics
and judge the quality of quotes in sig-files? Are we going
to make newbies submit a profile so we can judge their
compatibility with the rest of the list before informing
them of an upcoming List Event?
Verdant probably discussed some sexual issues more openly
than many in the group were comfortable with. Pointing
this out to her might have been more effective. Pity she
didn't reply to Tony's post before leaving, I was interested
in reading her response.
-rashmi
gilbertsmith
> than many in the group were comfortable with. Pointing
> this out to her might have been more effective. Pity she
> didn't reply to Tony's post before leaving, I was interested
> in reading her response.
>
> -rashmi
>
I, *personally* have no patience with the "you really shouldnt be
doing that on this list, that just isnt *done* around here and you're
ruining it for every one else" kind of crap. I'm surprised she left
and it makes me pure dee ashamed to be a former human being.
Seriously.
--ggs
Marty Rosen
On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Rashmi wrote:
> I am quite disgusted by the way the .sig issue has turned out.
> A four-line sig-file is perfectly acceptable by any standards
etc.
I can't say I'm disgusted by it, but I agree with Rashmi that the
objections were much overblown. Actually, the only time I felt much
solidarity with Verdant was when she told Hiroshi she wasn't interested
in entertaining any more of his complaints. I was a little disappointed
at the superficiality of her psychological analysis of the reasons why
these objections to the .sig file were raised, though. It seemed pretty
clear to me they reflected displaced hostility stemming from the content
of her posts. Else, why did they only arise a month after her
appearance on the list?
I didn't care for her style or substance, but my reaction had nothing to
do with her lifestyle, sexuality, gender, or .sig file, and everything to
do with her style and substance.
I was also troubled by her constant harping on killfiles. I have noted
before that I often delete large quantities of posts unread, but I can't
imagine systematically deleting all the posts from any individual. The
practice strikes me as petulant and childish, rather like declaring, "I'm
not speaking to you," covering one's ears and running away from the
dinner table.
Nipper
heather
>> This is not a sex-related newsgroup. Some of us find your constant
>
>
>It's not? Heather, did you lie to me?
>
>Betty
Shhhh! Geez. Well, I relate it to sex, anyway. Has it's ups
and downs. Sometimes it rubs you the wrong way. Makes me
stay awake nights, frustrated...
heather
Tony Harminc
> But people who are strictly motos tend to
>believe that their orientation is the only morally correct orientation, and
>I don't agree with that assumption, and qui tacit consentire and all that.
I doubt that many of the strictly motos people on this list tend to
believe that their orientation is the only morally correct one.
Tony H.
Karen Kay
> I was also troubled by her constant harping on killfiles. I have noted
> before that I often delete large quantities of posts unread, but I can't
> imagine systematically deleting all the posts from any individual. The
> practice strikes me as petulant and childish, rather like declaring, "I'm
> not speaking to you," covering one's ears and running away from the
> dinner table.
So you've never purposely avoided someone at a public gathering? There
are some people that I get little benefit from spending time with, and
kill-filing them is an efficient way of doing that. I don't see
anything childish about that. Prioritization is an adult way of
improving the quality of one's life.
Karen
kar...@netcom.com
JOHN WHAT'S-THE-M-FOR? WILLIAMS
>objected. Was this a large segment?
Counting Hiroshi and me, only two that I know of. (After the several
hundredth repetition I found it a bit <wearying>...)
JMW, going over to the corner to celebrate with H...
Rita M. Rouvalis
>All right, cut the crap, Miss Chapman. The last time I saw you your
>last name was *not* Chapman. Or is this just another figment? This
>is not really rita talking: this is a trick played on us by Miss
>Verdant what's-her-name to compound the joke. That's what it is.
>Ohio Oschmio...... Tell me exactly where and I'll come see whether
it is true or not. And I won't be the only one.
It is "Mrs." Chapman. And although Ms. Verdant has
a wonderful imagination I'm sure, I doubt it includes me. Why,
I'm just the same lil 'ole Rita I've always been.
I live in a small town called Struthers, Ohio. Right
off I-80, purt-near close to the Pennsylvania border. Please
do drop by in that little turtle-mobile. I'll take you to
a very nice Amish restaurant close by that serves apple dumplings
second to none.
>Would you like to offer any interesting information about your ...
>uh... sexual <asianation>? This is the week for it.
Why, giggles. Pregnant women don't fuck.
--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman, Zines Archivist
____________________________________________________________________
ri...@etext.org
Rita M. Rouvalis
either. I use cranky old trn (tin is for newbies... ick).
Rashmi
> > Hiroshi's objections to Janet's .sig were extremely far-
> > fetched and frankly, ludicrous. If we were concerned about
> > turning away lurkers and potential newbies we'd need to do
> > something about the phatic drivel and the pathetic poorly-
> > edited one-line spats that seem to take over the list at
>
> Good grief. This is not sounding Rashmiesque -- it's sounding a bit
> like Nipper's pompous posing as <Mr. Intellect>. (I'm talking about
> the phatic drivel part. I also found Hiroshi's objections rather
> far-fetched.)
Natalie, please read the pertinent posts before latching on to
some fragment or phrase that catches your eye. (This will prolly
earn me a Rashmi's becoming Tusharesque rebuke).
One of Hiroshi's objections was that the information contained
in Verdant's .sig and the discussions about sex and S/M would
scare away lurkers and attract the wrong sorts to the list from
where they'd make their way to ftf's. Which, I repeat, is a
ludicrous assertion. As silly as the comments made by disgruntled
newbies as they head for the door: " cut down on the phatic
drivel and improve the tone of the list." We've never given a
fig about how we (the list) appear to anyone else, why would
we start now?
-rashmi
heather
I guess I'm not used to seeing ads attached to people's signatures
(this is the only list I am on) I wasn't crazy about it, either.
It didn't bother me enough to say anything, though. I wasn't
that worried about what lurkers thought so much as it just struck
me as being a silly thing to add onto a sig when posting to an
"English Language Discussion Group." Like, Janet says she needs
the advertising in order to get money, and I can understand how
the sig might help...on some alt.sex group. But I don't see
how it would help her business by including it on this list.
I mean, I'd love to be proved wrong on this. Has anyone here
gone out to buy her book as a result of her posts? Then again,
if it really is a big pain-in-the-ass to remove the sig, she might
as well keep it. I just don't understand why the "Janet Hardy"
userid comes with the .sig while the "Lady Green" doesn't. Shouldn't
that be the other way 'round?
heather