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Re: Rexx from Clist
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Bob Bridges
Apr 3, 2012, 11:10:42 AM4/3/12
to
Ease up, Mr Stern. One would think you've forgotten all the
something-stupid-on-my-parts that YOU'VE committed, even long after you had
some idea of what you were doing and had the minimum basic knowledge to
execute a REXX exec.
I've been writing in REXX/TSO for 20 years now. My most recent
something-stupid-on-my-part was less than 24 programming hours ago. Give Mr
Benson the mercy that you will yourself need, perhaps later but probably
sooner.
For my part, Jeffrey, I commend both your willingness to ask and, even more,
to 'fess up afterward. You'll learn more that way, and soon pass up anyone
who's afraid of looking stupid.
---
Bob Bridges, rhb...@attglobal.net, cell 336 382-7313
/* No single raindrop considers itself responsible for the flood. */
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Stern
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 03:41
The first and most important advice to your employer is DONT CONVERT! Why
are you wasting his money in an excercise with NO benefits and introduces
instability since you obviously haqve no idea what you're doing clearly
lacking even the minimum basic knowledge to execute a rexx exec.
--- On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 08:49:14 -0400 Jeffrey C Benson wrote:
> Thank you all for your answers but of course it was just something stupid
> on my part.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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something-stupid-on-my-parts that YOU'VE committed, even long after you had
some idea of what you were doing and had the minimum basic knowledge to
execute a REXX exec.
I've been writing in REXX/TSO for 20 years now. My most recent
something-stupid-on-my-part was less than 24 programming hours ago. Give Mr
Benson the mercy that you will yourself need, perhaps later but probably
sooner.
For my part, Jeffrey, I commend both your willingness to ask and, even more,
to 'fess up afterward. You'll learn more that way, and soon pass up anyone
who's afraid of looking stupid.
---
Bob Bridges, rhb...@attglobal.net, cell 336 382-7313
/* No single raindrop considers itself responsible for the flood. */
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Stern
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 03:41
The first and most important advice to your employer is DONT CONVERT! Why
are you wasting his money in an excercise with NO benefits and introduces
instability since you obviously haqve no idea what you're doing clearly
lacking even the minimum basic knowledge to execute a rexx exec.
--- On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 08:49:14 -0400 Jeffrey C Benson wrote:
> Thank you all for your answers but of course it was just something stupid
> on my part.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For TSO-REXX subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to LIST...@VM.MARIST.EDU with the message: INFO TSO-REXX
Grinsell, Don
Apr 3, 2012, 11:45:45 AM4/3/12
to
1) It's debatable. If it gives him experience in REXX that his employer may find valuable later, then I would say why not.
2) No comment.
3) It's not for you to judge unless you are in fact his employer. Even were that true, it is highly inappropriate to do so in a public forum. If this thread is a waste of "your" time, then simply delete it and go about "your" employer's business.
--
Donald Grinsell
State of Montana
406-444-2983
dgri...@mt.gov
"For some must watch while some must sleep, Thus runs the world away."
~ Shakespeare, Hamlet
-----Original Message-----
From: TSO REXX Discussion List [mailto:TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Adrian Stern
Sent: Tuesday, 03 April 2012 09:28
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Rexx from Clist
Ease up? You should be as aroused as I was at yet another instance of over milking the cow! It's disgraceful the amount of crap people in this business saddle their employers with.
Some points of order:
1) Do you really think converting clist to rexx has some merit?
2) I can really not remember there ever being any doubt as to how to execute a rexx exec.
3) The "something stupid" he's confessing to is not being able to run his exec NOT the concept of wasting his employer's money in a no value added conversion.
2) No comment.
3) It's not for you to judge unless you are in fact his employer. Even were that true, it is highly inappropriate to do so in a public forum. If this thread is a waste of "your" time, then simply delete it and go about "your" employer's business.
--
Donald Grinsell
State of Montana
406-444-2983
dgri...@mt.gov
"For some must watch while some must sleep, Thus runs the world away."
~ Shakespeare, Hamlet
-----Original Message-----
From: TSO REXX Discussion List [mailto:TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Adrian Stern
Sent: Tuesday, 03 April 2012 09:28
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Rexx from Clist
Ease up? You should be as aroused as I was at yet another instance of over milking the cow! It's disgraceful the amount of crap people in this business saddle their employers with.
Some points of order:
1) Do you really think converting clist to rexx has some merit?
2) I can really not remember there ever being any doubt as to how to execute a rexx exec.
3) The "something stupid" he's confessing to is not being able to run his exec NOT the concept of wasting his employer's money in a no value added conversion.
Dave Salt
Apr 3, 2012, 11:57:27 AM4/3/12
to
REXX can be compiled whereas CLIST cannot. This could potentially save a considerable amount of money.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:43:02 +0000
> From: dgri...@MT.GOV
> Subject: Re: Rexx from Clist
> To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:43:02 +0000
> From: dgri...@MT.GOV
> Subject: Re: Rexx from Clist
> To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Dave Salt
Apr 3, 2012, 12:53:11 PM4/3/12
to
REXX has many advantages over CLIST. I once went through a similar process of converting CLISTs to REXX, and here are just some of the benefits:
1) REXX can be compiled and can therefore run at much greater speed and efficiency than CLIST.
2) REXX has many more built-in functions than CLIST, allowing much smaller programs to be written that are much easier to code and maintain.
3) REXX is much more powerful than CLIST, allowing new functionality to be added in a fraction of the time required with CLIST.
4) REXX can be obfuscated through the use of the CONDENSE option, making
it possible to hide the source code and impossible for users to
modify/screw up.
5) REXX has a much more flexible TRACE option, making it much easier to debug than CLIST.
6) REXX is much more structured than CLIST, lending itself to cleaner code that is much easier to understand.
I'm sure there are many more reasons why REXX is far superior to CLIST, but any one of these reasons alone can more than justify the benefits of converting CLIST to REXX.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:01:05 +0200
> From: adrian...@TELE2.SE
> I believe there's a name for that kind of argument that escapes me at the
> moment. Spurious comes to mind though. You're adding an imaginary
> requirement which we were not given at the outset. I would like to see the
> investment calculation shewing the amount of money expected to be saved.
> It's easy to throw out a statement like that but can he back it up in that
> shop with figures?
1) REXX can be compiled and can therefore run at much greater speed and efficiency than CLIST.
2) REXX has many more built-in functions than CLIST, allowing much smaller programs to be written that are much easier to code and maintain.
3) REXX is much more powerful than CLIST, allowing new functionality to be added in a fraction of the time required with CLIST.
4) REXX can be obfuscated through the use of the CONDENSE option, making
it possible to hide the source code and impossible for users to
modify/screw up.
5) REXX has a much more flexible TRACE option, making it much easier to debug than CLIST.
6) REXX is much more structured than CLIST, lending itself to cleaner code that is much easier to understand.
I'm sure there are many more reasons why REXX is far superior to CLIST, but any one of these reasons alone can more than justify the benefits of converting CLIST to REXX.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> From: adrian...@TELE2.SE
> I believe there's a name for that kind of argument that escapes me at the
> moment. Spurious comes to mind though. You're adding an imaginary
> requirement which we were not given at the outset. I would like to see the
> investment calculation shewing the amount of money expected to be saved.
> It's easy to throw out a statement like that but can he back it up in that
> shop with figures?
Ted MacNEIL
Apr 3, 2012, 1:05:05 PM4/3/12
to
> REXX can be compiled and can therefore run at much greater speed and efficiency than CLIST.
Isn't the REXX compiler a cost option?
-
Ted MacNEIL
eama...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL
Walter Pachl
Apr 3, 2012, 1:10:08 PM4/3/12
to
and the Rexx can be tested on the PC
Dave Salt
Apr 3, 2012, 2:17:36 PM4/3/12
to
Sorry Adrian but I strongly disagree. Smaller, more structured programs that are far easier to maintain, enhance and debug can save an employer considerable amounts of money.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:26:57 +0200
> Sorry Dave but your logic is flawed.
>
> If there is a requirement to speed up execution and if it really can be
> achieved then that may be a reason for converting. Your other arguments are
> reasons for developing functionality with rexx rather than clist, not
> reasons for converting with no value added.
>
> Since we haven't been given the requirements statement nor any other
> documents supporting the decision to convert I stand by my criticism. Don't
> waste your money.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Sorry Dave but your logic is flawed.
>
> If there is a requirement to speed up execution and if it really can be
> achieved then that may be a reason for converting. Your other arguments are
> reasons for developing functionality with rexx rather than clist, not
> reasons for converting with no value added.
>
> Since we haven't been given the requirements statement nor any other
> documents supporting the decision to convert I stand by my criticism. Don't
> waste your money.
Binyamin Dissen
Apr 3, 2012, 2:39:11 PM4/3/12
to
Disadvantages of REXX include lack of keyword support and lack of subcommand
support.
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 12:52:37 -0400 Dave Salt <ds...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
:>REXX has many advantages over CLIST. I once went through a similar process of converting CLISTs to REXX, and here are just some of the benefits:
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
support.
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 12:52:37 -0400 Dave Salt <ds...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
:>REXX has many advantages over CLIST. I once went through a similar process of converting CLISTs to REXX, and here are just some of the benefits:
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
Pinnacle
Apr 3, 2012, 3:02:33 PM4/3/12
to
On 4/3/2012 2:17 PM, Dave Salt wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:26:57 +0200
>> From: adrian...@TELE2.SE
>> Subject: Re: Rexx from Clist
>> To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
>>
>> Sorry Dave but your logic is flawed.
>>
>> If there is a requirement to speed up execution and if it really can be
>> achieved then that may be a reason for converting. Your other arguments are
>> reasons for developing functionality with rexx rather than clist, not
>> reasons for converting with no value added.
>>
>> Since we haven't been given the requirements statement nor any other
>> documents supporting the decision to convert I stand by my criticism. Don't
>> waste your money.
>>
>>
With CLISTs, I've found that it's a matter of WHEN, not IF they break.
>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:26:57 +0200
>> From: adrian...@TELE2.SE
>> Subject: Re: Rexx from Clist
>> To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
>>
>> Sorry Dave but your logic is flawed.
>>
>> If there is a requirement to speed up execution and if it really can be
>> achieved then that may be a reason for converting. Your other arguments are
>> reasons for developing functionality with rexx rather than clist, not
>> reasons for converting with no value added.
>>
>> Since we haven't been given the requirements statement nor any other
>> documents supporting the decision to convert I stand by my criticism. Don't
>> waste your money.
>>
>>
Without extensive use of &STR, it's only a matter of time until the
CLIST will gag with INVALID EXPRESSION. The only CLISTs not easily
converted are the ones using prompting, or GLOBAL (some will argue about
PROC variables, but that's easy with a little PARSE code). Rexx is much
more reliable and maintainable, and I would convert if only for that reason.
Regards,
Tom Conley
Walter Pachl
Apr 3, 2012, 3:04:34 PM4/3/12
to
what do you mean by that: "lack of keyword support"?
---- Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@DISSENSOFTWARE.COM> schrieb:
---- Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@DISSENSOFTWARE.COM> schrieb:
> Disadvantages of REXX include lack of keyword support and lack of subcommand
> support.
> support.
Dave Salt
Apr 4, 2012, 10:24:11 AM4/4/12
to
Adrian it looks as though we finally agree. There would definitely need to be a cost benefit to performing the conversion, and only the OP knows if that exists. This is very different to making a blanket statement that such a conversion is a waste of time.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 10:40:58 +0200
> Sorry Dave you have to take account of the cost of conversion and regression
> testing - as we're talking legacy environments you'd also need to shew a
> reasonable life expectancy for whatever it is these clists do
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Sorry Dave you have to take account of the cost of conversion and regression
> testing - as we're talking legacy environments you'd also need to shew a
> reasonable life expectancy for whatever it is these clists do
Binyamin Dissen
Apr 4, 2012, 2:46:01 PM4/4/12
to
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 21:03:59 +0200 Walter Pachl <christel....@CHELLO.AT>
wrote:
:>what do you mean by that: "lack of keyword support"?
CLIST does the PROC statement automagically, prompting if necessary.
:>---- Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@DISSENSOFTWARE.COM> schrieb:
wrote:
:>what do you mean by that: "lack of keyword support"?
CLIST does the PROC statement automagically, prompting if necessary.
:>---- Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@DISSENSOFTWARE.COM> schrieb:
:>> Disadvantages of REXX include lack of keyword support and lack of subcommand
:>> support.
:>> support.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
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