Class I vs. Class II vs. no class
Roger Kirkpatrick
Based on the responses to my inquiry concerning Class I & Class II RR's
that exist and those that run steam there seems to be some confusion as to
which are and what is a Class I RR and Class II RR. Does the USDOT
publish a list, it should be VERY short, of Class I RR's? Class II RR's?
Can any RR Lister give a SHORT description of the difference between Class
I and Class II? Roger
_______
S. Roger Kirkpatrick ______|_____| [ ] |___________
927 Colegate Drive | | | |
Marietta, OH 45750 | | [ ] [ ] | |
| | | |
Fax - 614-376-4777 |__|______________________|__|
Home - 614-374-6732 O<=>O O<=>O
Charles Mutschler
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Class I, Class II deisgnation based
on gross revenues? Can't recall what the present figures are, but at one
time Class I was a road grossing something like $25,000,000 per year. I'm
sure the figures are much greater now. Or has this classification ben
revised?
Cheers!
Charlie Mutschler
Char...@wsunix.wsu.edu
-30
Roger Kirkpatrick
I just found a list of Class I RR's in an Oct.'88 Official Guide. Amtrak,
CR, CSX, NS, UP, IC, KCS, & FEC are the listed roads that I think still
exist. There were about ten other roads like Sou, SP, B&M, ATSF, SOO,
D&RGW, etc. listed but none of these now exist except perhaps on paper.
CSX maintains, on paper, the corp. identity of some pre-CSX roads for some
legal and/or tax purposes. Does anyone know if the above 8 roads are
still Class I and if any others now are?
Is a list of Class II's possible or too long and/or complicated? I think
the federal regulators should have such a list.
If the distinction between Class I & II is based on income is there a
MINIMUM to be a Class II? If so, are shortlines and switchimg roads Class
III or just not Class II?
Peter Bowers
At 12:49 PM 10/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I just found a list of Class I RR's in an Oct.'88 Official Guide. Amtrak,
>CR, CSX, NS, UP, IC, KCS, & FEC are the listed roads that I think still
>exist. There were about ten other roads like Sou, SP, B&M, ATSF, SOO,
>D&RGW, etc. listed but none of these now exist except perhaps on paper.
>CSX maintains, on paper, the corp. identity of some pre-CSX roads for some
>legal and/or tax purposes. Does anyone know if the above 8 roads are
>still Class I and if any others now are?
>
>Is a list of Class II's possible or too long and/or complicated? I think
>the federal regulators should have such a list.
>
>If the distinction between Class I & II is based on income is there a
>MINIMUM to be a Class II? If so, are shortlines and switchimg roads Class
>III or just not Class II?
>
>Roger
>
II roads. In 1976 the Class I threshold was raised to $10 million and again
in 1978 to $50 million. In 1978, the Class III category was reinstated to
include carriers with revenues of $10 million or less. (this class had been
abolished in 1956. -pb)
Finally during 1979, the ICC designated all switching and terminal
companies, regardless of revenue level, as Class 3 railroads."
These quotes from "Small Railroads" AAR 1982
Peter Bowers
Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada
Bob Mrotek
At 10:16 AM 10/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Based on the responses to my inquiry concerning Class I & Class II RR's
>that exist and those that run steam there seems to be some confusion as to
>which are and what is a Class I RR and Class II RR. Does the USDOT
>publish a list, it should be VERY short, of Class I RR's? Class II RR's?
>Can any RR Lister give a SHORT description of the difference between Class
>
>
> _______
> S. Roger Kirkpatrick ______|_____| [ ] |___________
> 927 Colegate Drive | | | |
> Marietta, OH 45750 | | [ ] [ ] | |
> | | | |
> Fax - 614-376-4777 |__|______________________|__|
> Home - 614-374-6732 O<=>O O<=>O
>
freight revenues of 253.7 millon dollars anually. Class II railroads are 40
million or over but less than 253.7 million and Class III railroads are 39
million on down. It is my understanding that this is defined by the STB.
Bob Mrotek
Ian Cranstone
Re comments as to remaining Class I railroads:
According to the July 1996 Official Railway Equipment Register:
Class I
~~~~~~~
National Railroad Passenger Corp. (Amtrak)
Consolidated Rail
CSX Transportation
Grand Trunk Western
Illinois Central
Norfolk Southern Railway Co.
Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe
Burlington Northern
Denver & Rio Grande Western
Kansas City Southern
Missouri Pacific
St. Louis Southwestern
Soo Line
Southern Pacific
Union Pacific
BC Rail
Canadian National
Canadian Pacific
Ferrocarriles Nacionales de Mexico
Class II
~~~~~~~~
Alaska R.R.
Bangor & Aroostook R.R. Co.
Bessemer & Lake Erie
Boston & Maine
Canadian Pacific Lines in Maine
Chicago, Central & Pacific R.R.
Chicago, South Shore and South Bend R.R.
Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern R.R.
Delaware & Hudson Ry. Co.
Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range
Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific Ry. Co.
Elgin, Joliet & Eastern
Florida East Coast
Fox Valley & Western Ltd.
Gateway Western R.R.
Iowa Interstate R.R.
Maine Central Railroad Co.
Montana Rail Link Inc.
New York & Lake Erie R.R.
Ontario Northland
Paducah & Louisville Rwy.
Texas Mexican Rwy.
Texas Northern Rwy.
Union R.R.
Western R.R. Properties Inc.
Wisconsin Central Ltd.
I definitely get the impression that they're lagging a little behind merger
reality! Also, I suspect that legalese has some railroads broken into
pieces considered separately on the list, although one railroad in reality
-- i.e. Class I Canadian National includes Class I Grand Trunk Western and
Class II Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific -- they are operated now as one unit.
Union Pacific is particularly interesting as they have listed separately
one division owned for years (Missouri Pacific), and yet Chicago & North
Western and the Western Pacific don't appear -- once again I suspect some
legal reasons.
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ont., Canada
lam...@magi.com
dAve Anthony Gianna
Also notice, if you will, that the LIRR isn't even a Class II -- at least as
far as freight is concerned. :)
LIRR -- world's longest shortline -- 125 miles long with a multitude of
braches, two main lines and electrification. AND the busiest passenger
service in the (world?). ~500 trains a day into Penn Station, New York, NY.
Actually, the LIRR is in fact a member of that American shortline
organization. Does anyone remember the name of it? So representatives from
the LIRR sit down next to those of shortlines and terminal railroads -- some
less than 1/2 mile long!
BTW, the LIRR freight operation is for sale . . . imagine if the P&W or
Housatonic take it over.
-- dAve
PS: Letting an Alco FA look like that is a SIN!
Bob Thompson
On 7 Oct 96 at 0:24, Wes Leatherock wrote:
> Several months ago there was a report in the newspaper in
> Oklahoma
> City that the city had purchased some land from the Missouri Pacific
> Railroad. I posted about this to the list, and one of the UP people
> replied that the Missouri Pacific Railroad Company still exists (and
> I believe the sense of the reply was that it will continue to exist
> as a legal entity).
It certainly does. Recently, for example, the EJ&E grant of trackage
rights to the UP made this list, along with the suspension
(temporarily) of these rights by the STB. What wasn't noted (as I
recall) was that there were two trackage rights agreements made by
the EJ&E, one with the UP and one with the MP. Text follows.
[Federal Register: September 10, 1996 (Volume 61, Number 176)]
[Notices]
[Page 47781]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Surface Transportation Board <SUP>1
[STB Finance Docket No. 32986]
Missouri Pacific Railroad Company--Trackage Rights Exemption--
Elgin, Joliet and Eastern Railway Company
Elgin, Joliet and Eastern Railway Company (EJ&E) has agreed to
grant overhead trackage rights to Missouri Pacific Railroad Company
(MP) over approximately 130 miles of rail lines extending from
milepost 0 in South Chicago, IL, through Gary, IN (milepost 12 and
milepost 45, including Kirk Yard), including EJ&E's City Track Line
between Gary and Goff, IN, and EJ&E's Whiting Line from Cavanaugh, IN,
to Calumet Tower, IN, through milepost 25 at Chicago Heights, IL,
milepost 0 at Joliet, IL, and milepost 29 at West Chicago, IL, to
Waukegan, IL, to the end of EJ&E's ownership near milepost 74.<SUP>2
The trackage rights were scheduled to become effective on the date of
final agreement of the parties but not sooner than August 28, 1996,
the effective date of the exemption.<SUP>3
========================================
/bob/
thom...@robin.tezcat.com (Bob Thompson)
=========================================
Peter Ogram
does the fact that MP exists on paper have any operations ramifications?
---------------------- Forwarded by Peter Ogram/Fieldston on 10/07/96 09:05 AM
---------------------------
thompson @ robin.tezcat.com (Bob Thompson)
10/07/96 08:29 AM
To: RAILROAD @ CUNYVM (Multiple recipients of list RAILROAD) @ internet
cc: (bcc: Peter Ogram/Fieldston)
Subject: Re: Class I vs. Class II vs. no class
Roger Kirkpatrick
MP may exist on paper and, therefore, in some documents but does that make
it a RR? How many engines have been order by and painted into MP in the
past 5 years? How many NEW coal cars and intermodal cars have been
purchased and painted MP in the past 5 years? It seems to me that there
would be no difference to the railfan or public if MP DIDN'T exist on
paper.
A few years back the Leadville, C&S RR tried to run as the C&S RR and
BN told them they could not because BN owned the C&S RR. By the way,
I understand the LC&S is for sale. Anyone want to buy a RR? Roger