Greetings ...

Very often, if it's been years since I've read a book, I'll try to
talk about it with someone -- perhaps to recommend it -- and find
that just about all the hard facts pertaining to it have vanished
from my mind. I'll retain a clear idea of what my reaction to the
book was, but if pressed to justify my liking for it, I'll draw a
blank, and be reduced to the usual generalizations ("terrific", "you
just have to read it", and so on).

Sometimes this bothers me, and I feel like I didn't go about reading
the book in the right way; perhaps I should have made more of an
effort to retain some specifics ... if for no other reason than to
stimulate someone else's interest in the book.

Has anyone else out there been concerned about this issue?  Do any
of you consciously make an effort to retain certain information about
a book, while reading it?

    Tom Frenkel <fren...@cpmail-am.cis.columbia.edu>

        My own feeling:  I tend to almost do the opposite.  I base my
opinion of a book on two things - one is the immediate impact (how I felt
about it as I read it, and immediately afterward - while the specifics are
still straight in my head).  The other is based on what stays with me.
There are many books which perhaps didn't overwhelm me as I read them, but
which linger with me for years; a particular character, a phrase, or even
an overall mood.  This, to me, is what marks a book as potentially
great, rather than just another good book.  If I read a book and it blows
me away as I read it - but nothing sticks a month (or a year) later, then
that itself is a comment on the quality of the book.
        Mind you, I have the luxury of not having to remember anything; I read
only for myself, not for classes etc.  I suspect I would have to change my
attitude in a hurry otherwise.
        Ian

Ian,

      I agree that those books which are so powerful that they burn even
 minute details into the memory have done something wonderful.  Yet so much
 of contemporary fiction examines the finer points of unremarkable people,
 of "normal" or "ordinary" lives, common names and locations abound.  That
 the posters in the Tyler thread remember the characters by what they do and
 who they are, but not by name seems to show they *do* remember, but that the
 names just weren't of great importance in the work.  Characters like Mrs.
 Malaprop and Sir Toby Belch are easily remembered by name, but such names
 would be distracting in  a work aiming for realism.  Maybe these characters
 are a contemporary answer to the Medieval "Everyman", but more finely drawn?

                                  Jim

My twin brother, a vicar with four churches in Risca, South Wales, has a
great memory. While at university he memorised and performed John Milton's
Paradise Lost. I probably forget the equivalent of P.L everyday! But
I count this as a blessing in disguise, because one doesn't lose everthing
and there are traces left - which help remind one of the qualities of the
works one loved or hated etc. I liken my experience to beachcombing - each
day one has the excitement of something fresh - the erotics of forgetting?
I came across by chance a book of poems by Osip Mandelstam - I remembered
the lines about the science of goodbyes - and stones, pine needles, Stalin,
and a whole world opened up. Those traces served me well. And here I am
in a library of forgotten books - a tide washes up
Preparations For Flight and Other Swedish Stories
translated by Forest Books London 1990 Boston.

The title story begins:

The landscape. A plain as far as the eye can reach. Marshland. Bogs, opening
s of blue water that darken in the wind. Clumps of yellowed reeds. It's April
and the sharp wind rustles in the grass. The cloud's hurry restlessly and low
they don't leave us a moment's peace. The horizon is a straight line. The
different kinds of grass make different sounds according to whether the stalk
is rough and brittle or flexible and soft. And now that spring is coming there
is lukewarm rain now and then that blends with the wind so imperceptibl you
don't know it's there until you are wet.

By Lars Gustafsson who lives mainly in Austin, Texas.

Well it's another damp and dreary day here in Norwich. Wouldn't mind some
Arizona lightning. Stephen.

Granted ... but for example, I read _Pride & Prejudice_ several years
ago.  I still have its "mood" or feeling deeply embedded within
myself.  (In addition, I remember just where I was, what my
circumstances in life were when I read it.)   BUT ... when Jane
Austen happens to come up in conversation, how can I *convey*
something like this feeling to others?  Perhaps only by tone of voice
... But although sharing my reading experiences with others may not
be at the heart of my literary existence, it is important enough to
me that I would like to do better at it.  Perhaps I will keep a
journal, in which I could at least inscribe some examples of why a
given book did so much to me.  Then I would be able to share with
others, not just the "mood" of a book, but also some underpinnings
and justification for it.  --Tom

    Tom Frenkel <fren...@cpmail-am.cis.columbia.edu>

        I've heard much about the Medieval Everyman, but I don't know
where it comes from.  Is he a character in medieval plays?  Books?
Tradition?  I mean, I can guess, but I'd appreciate hearing the full story.
        Ian

  You know, I once thought of doing that.  I read a lot of books,
and forget a lot of books, and thought it would be helpful if I
logged each one of them with a few comments or something.  But,
it seemed to daunting a task....particularly as so many of the
books are forgettable.  (I'm continuing my stupid idea of reading
anything I can find written by a Russian, right now, and am part
way through this really terrible 1950's Soviet science fiction
novel.  It reads like manual of "beginner's mistakes" in writing
fiction.  The sort of thing you would compile after teaching 50
introductory creative writing courses.  It's waste enough of my
time to finish it, let alone write about it.)

  As a compromise, I tried to keep a journal of memorable quotes
from books which had them.  But, while I found that useful for
getting a different perspective on the novel, I found that it
slowed down my reading too much - not even writing them down as
I went along, but always thinking "is this line quotable?"
  I filled two notebooks before I quit.

  What I've found from that experience is that there are a few
sets of quotes that I do go back to once in a while when I want
something witty to this way come.  Most of the ones that I reuse,
however, are a small subset of the ones I wrote down, and I find
that I never read back through the journals.

  And that's the key, right there.

  Think about it - are you really ever going to read back through
those journals?  It is unlikely they will be on hand to help you
if Jane Austen just happens to pop up in conversation at a bar
somewhere.

  In _Mezzanine_, Nicholson Baker lists 4 (I think...I didn't write
it down ;-) good things about losing nerve cells in your brain as
you grow older.  I've decided that there are good things about for-
getting books, too.  Certainly, it would be a shame to have read a
book once and not gotten the most out of it - but if you consider
how much written material there is, and the real capacity of your
brain - do you really want to remember all the books?

  The sort of journal you seem to propose does condense all that
information - but even then, I would take a serious look at whether
or not it will be worth it to you.  I guess I would recommend a
little bluster and practiced rhetoric, rather than a careful note-
book of everything you've read.  If you get really good, the former
will serve you with books you haven't read yet, where the latter
will not.

                        -Tim

          Tom and others...
               I missed the first question on this. I am responding to
          Tom's comments about sharing reading experiences. Is anyone
          interested in forming a GREAT BOOKS discussion group on the
          INTERNET. One book per month. Everyone shares their thoughts?
          Love to hear from interested readers.
                    Arlene Howard howard.arl...@epamail.epa.gov

*** Reply to note of 07/14/93 16:22
Tom, the way I see it is it might be enough to just say something like 'you
know, even though I read that a long time ago, parts of it have really stayed
with me'.  I would consider that a great recommendation.  I don't need to hear
thematic justifications and such.  Everyone gets such different things out of t
he same book anyway.  Eileen

Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:34:56 EDT, Tom Frenkel wrote:

Tom,
    Always glad to hear people talk of sharing their reading
experiences better.  It does seem to me one of the most valuable
of communication options.  The journal idea is good, but I always
end up forgetting where I wrote about a particular book.  My preferred
method whenever possible is writing in the books themselves -- cheaper
paperbacks, of course.  (Which makes me wonder why publishers don't
release the paperbacks first, then move on to the more expensive
hardcover editions.)
    I keep track of specific thematic ideas by page number on the
inside back cover and try to write a very brief opinion when finished
reading somewhere in the front.  Margins are full of notes and
references.  Post-its work well if you run out of space.  Pencil is
good for changes/improvements in opinion.  Ruins the book for anyone
else, however.  But if it's good enough to recommend to someone else,
they should have their own paperback to write in.  :-)

Rhonda

To Tim & Tom and the rest of the forgetful readers:
Why exactly would one *need* to remember every book he/she has read?
It seems that literary discussion groups are one of the only places
where this would come in handy. If I was to remember every book I had
read, it would be rather like looking at Borges' glowing alaf (sp?):
simultaneous stimulation overload.  Too much information and
too many images crammed in too little an area.

If the book was meaningful to the reader-- which is to say that it
awakened new thoughts in him/her or illuminated previous thoughts
and experiences-- then it will be memorable. If not, it was simply a
good read.

One benefit of forgetting plots, characters, and entire books is that
if one happens upon the book again, it seems new.

S. Rebecca

Interesting discussion this.  I just concluded last week that I need to
weed my library of 2000 books of some items that I know that I will never
read again but that I want to retain more organized impressions than my
memory bank.  Since I use MS works for windows to catalog my books I
decided to use this software for books not in my collection (using a file
name with the last letter one after the main collection).  This way I can
also record such info. as: WD twice from collection and repurchased - next
time dummy check this file before going up to the Cape for book sales!

On the other hand what could I say in such a file about Freud whose main concept
(oops) conceptions seem to be outmoded but who is a towering influence on 20th
century literature.  I retain the items (mostly paperback) because I picked
them up in graduate school when I was reading Joyce and just looking at the
outside of the books brings back memories in a whole stream of consciousness
(Joyce -- cheap wine -- Nodoz -- 36 hours without sleep every two weeks --
Having a crise -- reading Kerouac on the veranda of that Ogunquit hotel)
-- would these notes in a file be only a memory of a memory rather than the
memory itself?

        Maggie Wright

Well, yes ... but maybe I should have put more emphasis on
*discussing* a given book with someone else who also has read it. Or,
participating meaningfully in this very "list"!  I honestly think I
would *enjoy* being able to be more articulate about what I have
read.  Starting with my next "read", I think I'll try some of the
strategies suggested by various people on LITERARY.  --Tom

    Tom Frenkel <fren...@cpmail-am.cis.columbia.edu>

Good idea, Arlene! i would be interested in joining such a discussion group.
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Ute Kauer
ka...@mailer.uni-marburg.de
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