I got this from the FlexES group. I don't know anything else, but it sounds a bit ominous to me. But, then again, I don't know.
I just thought it might be of interest to some here as well.
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On Behalf Of Steven Friedman Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:30 PM To: FLEX...@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
A Letter to the FLEX-ES User Community:
An unfortunate set of circumstances has recently arisen that, unless addressed by IBM immediately, will result in the abrupt termination of the very successful 6 year-old Partnerworld for Developers FLEX-ES delivery program.
To provide some history for background purposes, T3 Technologies, Inc. is a long time IBM Premier Business Partner, specializing in FLEX-ES technology. In 2000, shortly after the IBM P/390 product program ended, members of the IBM PWD community had no affordable hardware options for development platforms. I personally approached Jeff Magdahl, then manager of the S/390 PWD program, with an idea to again offer PWD members a very low cost mainframe development platform, this time based on FLEX-ES technology. The concept I brought to Jeff was fully in synch with his mission for PWD-to incent developers to continue developing mainframe applications, thereby maintaining a healthy environment for IBM mainframe sales.
The result was a family of products offered by T3, ranging from a "Mainframe on a Thinkpad" to our more robust 100 MIPS+ x-Series based servers. To date, T3 has delivered over 600 tServer units in 28 countries, a majority to the approximately 1,400-member worldwide mainframe PWD community.
Unfortunately, a S/390 licensing dispute between IBM and Fundamental Software (FSI) is now underway and the collateral damage will likely mean the end to this PWD delivery program. It seems FSI has a patent license with IBM for certain S/390 rights that expire on October 31, 2006. Without renewal of that licensing program, FSI can no longer provide FLEX-ES licenses to this PWD program. And, incredibly, it seems IBM is not currently entertaining a renegotiation of that license agreement with FSI. It is entirely likely that the IBM'ers responsible for this (lack of) negotiation are not even aware of the impact this may have, and the potential ripple effect through the mainframe developer's community. With no similar low cost options available, many developers will have no choice but to cease their mainframe development and support of literally hundreds if not thousands of mainframe software applications.
Strategically, this does not make much business sense for IBM, obviously has an impact to T3's business, and likely has significant ramifications to ALL PWD businesses. I am therefore asking all of our customers, indeed all PWD members to join me in a letter/emailing campaign to the relevant IBM managers in zSeries and in the Partnerworld for Developers Program. My hope is to shed some light on the situation to the decision makers and force a restoration of this very important mainframe developer's incentive program.
Without your collective help, this very beneficial PWD program will end in just 26 days!!! Please be specific and direct in your emails. Pull no punches, and let IBM know how you feel about this, and how it impacts your plans to continue delivering zArchitecture products.
Existing PWD FLEX licenses are valid through the end dates of your current IBM agreements. No action can be taken to prematurely cancel those agreements. T3 and FSI will continue to provide the highest levels of support to all FLEX users through those expiration dates. New orders can be filled through October 31.
. This situation has no effect on current production users of tServers or other FLEX-based systems. FLEX-ES production licenses are, essentially, lifetime licenses. T3 and FSI will continue to provide support to our production customers for as long as you request it.
Let us not sit back and hope that saner minds prevail. Join me in taking some action to protect our collective business futures.
Sincerely
Steven Friedman President, T3 Technologies Inc.
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You have to wonder whether this is related to T3's introduction of PSI's "Liberty" servers. Liberty overlaps the z9BC low end, perhaps through 250 MIPS.
I'm sure Phil would know more, but he's probably too busy fiddling with his Audi to care much.
-- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com
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-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Thursday October 05 2006 13:11 To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
You have to wonder whether this is related to T3's introduction of PSI's "Liberty" servers. Liberty overlaps the z9BC low end, perhaps through 250 MIPS.
I'm sure Phil would know more, but he's probably too busy fiddling with his Audi to care much.
---
It's not. Here is a similar notice from Cornerstone employee Mike Hammock from the FLEX-ES list:
----
I've been asked to post this announcement: =============================================== Announcement: Fundamental Software has notified IBM and it's PWD resellers that they are unable to accept orders for PWD FLEX-ES after November 1, 2006.
Background: FSI applied for the renewal of certain IBM patents that expire on November 1st. IBM has yet to approve their request. While this issue may be resolved any day, it is prudent at this time for Cornerstone to advise both our partners and customers of the pending situation. First, Cornerstone will continue to accept orders for FLEX-ES PWD licenses until October 20th. That date allows enough time to manage requests through the IBM PWD approval process. Note: There is no guarantee that IBM will process and approve all the requests that we submit before the end date of November 1. If you were considering a new FLEX-ES PWD license, renewal, or upgrade, it is critical that you start this process NOW. Cornerstone's support of FLEX-ES will continue without interruption for the full term of your PWD agreements. For example, a PWD with a 3 year maintenance agreement executed prior to November 1, 2006, will continue to receive support from Cornerstone for the duration of that agreement.
We hope this issue is resolved soon, but it may or may not happen by November 1st. Please act accordingly.
================================================
Mike C. M. (Mike) Hammock Sr. Technical Support zFrame & IBM zSeries Solutions (404) 643-3258 mhamm...@csihome.com
-----
Sadly, I believe the FLEX-ES world is going to be in upheaval, and the PWD program is the first casualty.
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This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of smarts in IBM in some areas.
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It just doesn't make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! Phil Payne - where are you?
Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee Wisconsin 414-475-7434
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-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@ibm-main.lst
Of Eric N. Bielefeld Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:37 PM To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow
into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of smarts in IBM in some areas.
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It just doesn't make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! Phil Payne - where
are you?
Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee Wisconsin 414-475-7434
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Eric N. Bielefeld wrote: > This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get > rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get > rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will > never now grow into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of > smarts in IBM in some areas.
I keep trying to get their attention, but to no avail.
> I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I > haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run > z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on > IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing > mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
We just installed 1.7; there are still some of the newer hardware instructions that are not supported - unlike Hercules, where instruction support seems more robust; but, of course, they're not a legal platform for running z/OS. [In fairness, I was able to run in 64-bit amode pretty early on.]
> Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It just > doesn't make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! Phil > Payne - where are you?
Small doesn't return big returns. Future? Ah, you mean next quarter. After all, "we're a bit of an elephant so it takes us a little time to turn around". But I've been told there are changes a'brewin'. We'll see.
Kind regards,
-Steve Comstock
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-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@ibm-main.lst
Behalf Of Eric N. Bielefeld Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:37 PM To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of smarts in IBM in some areas.
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It just doesn't make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! Phil Payne - where are you?
Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee Wisconsin 414-475-7434
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Eric, There never really were any "Technical" issues with running 64-bit under FLEX, it just worked. The issue, and why Tom gets around it, is a "legal & licensing" one. IBM will only allow PWD members to run a FLEX in 64 bit mode. If you were a small shop that wanted to run z/OS under FLEX for "production" work (assuming that production isn't compiling and testing software products), then you were limited to only 31 bit mode. Again, limited smarts in IBM on this. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own.
-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@ibm-main.lst
Behalf Of Tom Moulder Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:41 PM To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
I work with a company that is running a FLEX-ES and z/OS 1.6. Guess they got the issues worked out.
Tom Moulder
-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@ibm-main.lst Behalf Of Eric N. Bielefeld Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:37 PM To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow
into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of smarts in IBM in some areas.
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It just doesn't make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! Phil Payne - where
are you?
Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee Wisconsin 414-475-7434
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I am looking at a current T3 proposal and it says:
zPad Base System: ... Full S/390 capability, including ESA/390 Features for VSE/ESA, VM/ESA, z/VM and Z/OS and 64 bit zSeries support, IBM Denier nylon carry case.
And to think I remember when mainframes did not come with a nylon carrying case.
-----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-M...@ibm-main.lst Of Eric N. Bielefeld Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:37 PM To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
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What you say makes sense because the company is a PWD.
Tom Moulder
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So, if your a PWD member, you can run 64 bit mode, but if your company just needs 10 - 30 MIPS or so, you can only run 31 bit mode? That doesn't make any sense. Is there anyone out there from IBM who can explain this, and tell us why IBM wants to kill the FLEX box? I'm sure that a few of the IBMers on this list must at least know who to ask and could find out, but I bet we won't hear from any IBMers.
Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee Wisconsin 414-475-7434
> Eric, > There never really were any "Technical" issues with running 64-bit under > FLEX, it just worked. The issue, and why Tom gets around it, is a > "legal & licensing" one. IBM will only allow PWD members to run a FLEX > in 64 bit mode. If you were a small shop that wanted to run z/OS under > FLEX for "production" work (assuming that production isn't compiling and > testing software products), then you were limited to only 31 bit mode. > Again, limited smarts in IBM on this. > Wayne Driscoll > Product Developer > JME Software LLC > NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own.
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On Thursday, 10/05/2006 at 04:36 EST, "Eric N. Bielefeld"
<eric-phmin...@WI.RR.COM> wrote: > I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I > haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run z/OS > in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on IBM-Main, if I > remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, meaning z/OS > 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
As it has been explained to me, members of IBM PartnerWorld in Development (PWD) are entitled to obtain the FLEX-ES dongle that enables the z/Architecture support. Non-members are not.
Non-PWD members are not supposed to be in possession of the dongle and are not licensed to use z/Architecture on the box even if they *do* possess it. (An agreement with IBM to the contrary overrides the whole thing, of course.)
Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
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Eric N. Bielefeld wrote: > So, if your a PWD member, you can run 64 bit mode, but if your company > just needs 10 - 30 MIPS or so, you can only run 31 bit mode? That > doesn't make any sense. Is there anyone out there from IBM who can > explain this, and tell us why IBM wants to kill the FLEX box? I'm > sure that a few of the IBMers on this list must at least know who to > ask and could find out, but I bet we won't hear from any IBMers.
If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE. That operating system runs on the vast majority of "production" FLEX-ES systems. There are other z/Architecture emulators coming into the picture and real mainframe hardware now starts as small as 28 MIPS, so the landscape has changed considerably since FLEX-ES was first introduced. IBM may be taking a wait and see approach.
-- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
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>If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE. That operating >system runs on the vast majority of "production" FLEX-ES systems. There >are other z/Architecture emulators coming into the picture and real >mainframe hardware now starts as small as 28 MIPS, so the landscape has >changed considerably since FLEX-ES was first introduced. IBM may be >taking a wait and see approach.
I have no particular insider knowledge on this, but a few more points on small mainframes:
1. IBM dropped the minimum purchase level for mainframe software products down to 3 MSUs because smaller customers needed this (and small projects within larger companies). This now means the mainframe is the cheapest place to put, say, WebSphere Message Broker.
2. IBM dropped the price almost in half on the 26 MIPS System z9 BC A01 from the previous entry model, the z890 Model 110. I didn't do a totally scientific study, but I believe today's mainframe is the same dollar price as any of the previously lowest price entry models, including the "baby mainframes" of yesteryear that people remember fondly. In inflation-adjusted terms it's much lower of course. The z9 is a much better machine than any predecessor and every bit a real mainframe, even at 26 MIPS, for true mainframe qualities of service.
3. The U.S. price of a brand new BC A01 is now about the same as one full time (fully burdened) employee's annual compensation, for perspective.
4. The 26 MIPS model is 4 MSUs. You can set subcapacity limits below that if your needs are even more modest, and special software pricing is available.
5. Genuine z/OS (in the form of z/OS.e) is available for a small fraction of the price for any new workloads, including DB2.
6. There's more competition than ever in the tools and utilities business, driving down costs. There are even 5 operating systems available to choose, including one IBM doesn't make (Linux) that's just a little popular. :-)
7. IBM announced there will be changes to z/VSE pricing terms with Version 4 related to subcapacity. (This is good.)
8. The z800 (minimum 40 MIPS, subcapacity eligible) is a real 64-bit mainframe and is available on the secondary market for less than the price of popular automobiles. A "small" z900 (also subcapacity eligible) is probably less than that. (Well, if a one person personal data center now has a z900....)
All that said, small mainframe customers (and developers) should keep letting IBM know what they need. IBM generally does respond if it can, as in the examples above.
- - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Sipples" <timothy.sipp...@ibm-main.lst> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
> <snip>
> All that said, small mainframe customers (and developers) should keep > letting IBM know what they need. IBM generally does respond if it can, as > in the examples above.
Tim,
The bottom line is that IBM keeps erecting barriers for small developers to get on the platform. That's why I'm still developing on a P390 with z/OS V1R4 in 31-bit mode. PWD recently added a $1000/yr license charge for the ADCD which was previously free. The FLEX-ES boxes at >10K for a laptop or >30K for a server are priced beyond my means. So only the big developers will continue to develop for z/OS, everyone else will keep developing for NET, Java, and Linux on their commodity PC's for <$1000. If IBM abandons FLEX-ES, you won't have any z/OS development happening in any company under $1M market cap. Good luck when that happens.
Regards, Tom Conley
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> The bottom line is that IBM keeps erecting barriers for small developers to > get on the platform. That's why I'm still developing on a P390 with z/OS > V1R4 in 31-bit mode. PWD recently added a $1000/yr license charge for the > ADCD which was previously free. The FLEX-ES boxes at >10K for a laptop or > >30K for a server are priced beyond my means. So only the big developers > will continue to develop for z/OS, everyone else will keep developing for > .NET, Java, and Linux on their commodity PC's for <$1000. If IBM abandons > FLEX-ES, you won't have any z/OS development happening in any company under > $1M market cap. Good luck when that happens.
If PWD is really not affordable, then each and every member of PWD who does z/OS development *should* rise up and be heard.
The rock/hard place is if you do s/w development as a hobby, not as a business, and just want to have fun, recoup your costs, and have a little something left over to supplement other sources of income. For those folks the ante may be too high. But I just don't know; I've never been a self-employed s/w developer.
Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
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Alan Altmark wrote: > The rock/hard place is if you do s/w development as a hobby, not as a > business, and just want to have fun, recoup your costs, and have a little > something left over to supplement other sources of income. For those > folks the ante may be too high. But I just don't know; I've never been a > self-employed s/w developer.
And it strikes me as sad that IBM would exclude "hobbyists" like myself. A lot of good things have come out of people who developed stuff just for fun ...
Also, IBM excludes all those students who would want to write programs on the mainframe or just learn how. They can get a Windows or Linux laptop for about $1.5K with all the software they need. The only way they can do anything with z/OS is to get an account on somebody's mainframe ... which is nearly impossible at our institution.
They can get a Linux box and start experimenting and learning without having to write up a project proposal and getting approval to get access to a system.
--Stephen
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> Also, IBM excludes all those students who would want to write programs > on the mainframe or just learn how. They can get a Windows or Linux > laptop for about $1.5K with all the software they need. The only way > they can do anything with z/OS is to get an account on somebody's > mainframe ... which is nearly impossible at our institution.
> They can get a Linux box and start experimenting and learning without > having to write up a project proposal and getting approval to get access > to a system.
..or this persuades students to use Hercules and illegal copy of z/OS. Like some IBMers do.
BTW: wouldn't it be simpler just to give z/OS *for free* to all the hobbyists, students, maniacs ? Like few other OS vendors did. Obviously with limitations for personal, non-commercial use, on specified HW, etc. Small developers would pay $xxxx yearly as today.
OK, I know. I would make z/OS *popular* which seems to be against IBM policy.
-- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland
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> I'm sure Phil would know more, but he's probably too busy fiddling with his Audi to care
much.
I've been booked for a magazine photo-shoot on Monday - "Practical Classics" - to illustrate a how-to article about servicing AUdi fuel injection systems. When it's published, I'll post the URI so you can admire my manly figure. Just bought a new T-shirt specially.
I'm not really that up to speed on the current status, largely because a lot of the discussions have been between FSI (who are as tight as a duck's posterior sphincter when it comes to discussing their relationships) and a very few people at IBM who are probably more ashamed about discussing their activities that anything else.
And trying to find out how Google works is as much fun as Assembler I/O programming back in the 1960s - nothing ever works like it's supposed to, and getting ahead of the game is fun.
I knew there was a contract expiry due, but I believed it was between FSI and T3. With all the noise T3 has been making about the PSI "product", you can't blame FSI for being a little cautious about renewing an agreement with the world-exclusive marketing arm of a competitor. There are some very technical issues about intellectual property that I, for one, am glad I'm not involved in.
I'm told that T3 is planning a launch of the PSI "product" and has invited its PWD customers - not a way to improve relations with your other supplier. Or IBM, for that matter.
I do have a fragmentary transciript of the exact words an IBM executive used when referring to PSI's chances of getting software licenses. I also know that PSI has a corporate lawyer with a LOT of experience in precisely this sector. I await developments.
I know Steve will be very upset with me (but what's new about that) but my first take is that he's poisoned his FSI relationship with his gung ho attitude to PSI, and now he's discovered that the PSI "product" is no such thing.
I've always thought the FSI/IBM intellectual property agreements were of unspecified length and mutual - FSI has a few patents, too - and I can't see that an expiry would be expected. I don't think the agreements are as comprehensive as some people would like, but that's a horse with different feathers.
I understand from a couple of sources that PWD AD/CD renewals are currently running below 70%. This saddens me because it's another "critical mass" issue and I fear the platform is rapidly approaching that in a number of ways.
Words fail me when it comes to IBM's refusal to sanction commercial 64-bit operation under FLEX-ES. This is at one time the STUPIDEST and most predatory action IBM has taken since 1956. It is incredibly, cretinously dumb and will lead to the zSeries market collapsing several years before it would otherwise do so. Given the huge profit margins on zSeries software, it would IMO be appropriate for stockholders to ask for a review of this strategy before it's too late - if it isn't already.
We now have the situation where ISVs are developing applications that mandate DB2 V8 and their customers are unable to run it because their FLEX-ES system only supports ARCHLVL=2 in 31-bit mode. So they buy a Superdome.
How ANYONE can maintain that IBM does what its customers want in this situation is really way beyond me.
Can no one do TCO calculations at IBM any more? ´Has the skill evaporated? You can make a zBox cheap, and its software, but you still need external peripherals - cost, power and service - which you get thrown in with a FLEX-ES solution. Internally emulated DASD are a damn sight faster, too. Have any of them compared the cost/GB between old iron and a state of the art PC server? And things like Faketape and printer emulation have huge benefits for small users. All things a big, dumb piece of iron can't do. The world has moved on. But I understand the HMC got a new GUI recently, so that's all right.
I'm told that one senior zSeries executive "would be happy with an installed base loss around 5% a year". It's actually quite a bit more than that now - but can you even IMAGINE what Thomas Watson would have said to a salesman who thought a declining base - or even a static one - in some way acceptable?
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> -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric N. Bielefeld > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:37 PM > To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
> This surely seems like a good way to start killing the > mainframe. Get rid > of the developers of software products for your system. > Also, get rid of > all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will > never now grow > into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of > smarts in IBM in > some areas.
zSeries no longer seems to be considered a stragetic system as best as I can tell. It is expensive. And it is too reliable. What I mean is that people don't seem to care anymore if a server dies once a week, just reboot it and recover whatever was "in flight". Having hardware that won't fail in 5 years of continuous operation is "over engineered" because such reliability is no longer considered important to the business customers.
> I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I > haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product > legally run z/OS > in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on > IBM-Main, if I > remember correctly, you couldn't run 64 bit addressing mode, > meaning z/OS > 1.6 and above wouldn't run on it.
To the best of my knowledge, no. You cannot run commercial 64 bit on FlexES. Likely ever.
> Why would IBM want to kill off their smallest customers? It > just doesn't > make sense. IBM is sure sending a lot of mixed signals! > Phil Payne - where > are you?
Well, pessimist that I am, I figure that current IBM management has a mind set of "milk as much from the current zSeries customers as we can and when they all get disgusted with us on zSeries, sell them some other architecture system like a pSeries or iSeries". IOW, they seem to want to kill zSeries. One nice way is their Linux on zSeries. Why? Because they can get current zSeries z/OS, z/VM, and z/VSE customers converted onto Linux on the zSeries. Then, when the zSeries is killed, they can say that their Linux investment is OK because Linux will run on xSeries, iSeries, pSeries.
OK, I'm likely wrong in the above. I'm just not very pleased with IBM right now on this subject and am venting.
> Eric Bielefeld > Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer > Milwaukee Wisconsin > 414-475-7434
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:55:43 +0900, Timothy Sipples
<timothy.sipp...@US.IBM.COM> wrote: >>If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE. That operating >>system runs on the vast majority of "production" FLEX-ES systems. There >>are other z/Architecture emulators coming into the picture and real >>mainframe hardware now starts as small as 28 MIPS, so the landscape has >>changed considerably since FLEX-ES was first introduced. IBM may be >>taking a wait and see approach.
>I have no particular insider knowledge on this, but a few more points on >small mainframes:
>1. IBM dropped the minimum purchase level for mainframe software products >down to 3 MSUs ...
Big deal
> This now means the mainframe is the cheapest >place to put, say, WebSphere Message Broker.
Oh, really? How useful is Websphere Message Broker on a 3 MSU z/OS system?
>2. IBM dropped the price almost in half on the 26 MIPS System z9 BC A01 >from the previous entry model, the z890 Model 110.
Big deal. *All* computing hardware has been dropping at that rate for the last 40 years. The original HP 4-function calculator cost $700. A lot of people have almost as much compute power in their wrist watch as a 168.
>3. The U.S. price of a brand new BC A01 is now about the same as one full >time (fully burdened) employee's annual compensation, for perspective.
And the software costs for real customers continues to rise. Customers have been abandoning the mainframe because of software costs. The hardware costs have not been driving people away. The point of this thread is really about the software costs.
>4. The 26 MIPS model is 4 MSUs. You can set subcapacity limits below that >if your needs are even more modest, and special software pricing is >available.
And IBM continues to cling tightly to the (almost) linear pricing structure for software. Double the power of your hardware and pay almost double the price for your software. With the power of computers doubling every couple of years, it doesn't take any genius to realize that it can't continue, but IBM can't seem to figure it out. Pay me a penny today, two cents tomorrow. Double it every day, and I'll retire wealthy in a month.
>5. Genuine z/OS (in the form of z/OS.e) is available for a small fraction >of the price for any new workloads, including DB2.
But still with the same almost linear price curve, and only on small processors.
Tom Marchant
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:08:32 -0500, Eric N. Bielefeld <eric-
phmin...@WI.RR.COM> wrote: > ... Is there anyone out there from IBM who can explain this, and >tell us why IBM wants to kill the FLEX box?
The IBMers here are technical, not political or bean counters.
Tom Marchant
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<edja...@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM> wrote: >If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE.
Maybe, maybe not. I know a couple of very small production "MVS" environments that fit into that category. We run one very small LPAR on a z900 that I was looking at moving onto a flex 4 or 5 years ago. ESCON connectivity to a STK tape SILO was a show stopper at that time.
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