> HASP (Houston Automatic Spooling Program) is the predecessor to JES2 as ASP > (Automatic or Asynchronous depending on who you talked to Spooling program) > was the predecessor to JES3. And yes you still find HASP references in the > JES2 code.
References? How about the fact that all of the JES2 messages still start with HASP?
-- | Edward E. Jaffe | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x318 | | Mgr., Research & Development | Fax: (310) 338-0801 | | Phoenix Software International | edja...@phoenixsoftware.com | | 5200 W. Century Blvd., Suite 800 | USS24J24 at IBMMAIL | | Los Angeles, CA 90045 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com |
The (I think I remember) University of Kentucky had HASP for VS1. Then Nancy Melanos (?sp) put HASP shared spool under VS1. It was real HASP.
Norman Hollander wrote:
> That would be the equivalent of JES1- not to be confused > with JES2 (HASP) or JES3 (ASP). Although there was a FDP > for VS/1 that looked like HASP for VS/1 and RES.
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> as ASP > (Automatic or Asynchronous depending on who you talked to Spooling > program) > was the predecessor to JES3.
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I once heard an IBMer refer to HASP as "Half an ASP" instead of the Houston name.
> HASP (Houston Automatic Spooling Program) is the predecessor to JES2
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MFT only supported a fixed number of tasks in only one real address space (hence the F). MVT supported a variable number of tasks in only one real address space (hence the V). SVS supported a variable number of tasks in a single virtual address space. MVS supported a variable number of tasks in a multiple number of virtual address spaces.
PCP--->MFT--->MFT II --->MVT--->SVS--->MVS
Regards,
T. Bird President TJB Ventures, Inc. Voice: (707) 226-1100 Fax: (707) 226-1188 Email: tb...@tjbventures.com Web: http://www.tjbventures.com
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MFT only supported a fixed number of tasks in only one real address space (hence the F). MVT supported a variable number of tasks in only one real address space (hence the V). VS1 supported a fixed number of tasks in only one virtual address space. SVS supported a variable number of tasks in a single virtual address space. MVS supported a variable number of tasks in a multiple number of virtual address spaces.
T. Bird President TJB Ventures, Inc. Voice: (707) 226-1100 Fax: (707) 226-1188 Email: tb...@tjbventures.com Web: http://www.tjbventures.com
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However, the chronology is off; the MVT option was available for a long time before MFT II; in fact, a good deal of MVT code found its way into MFT II and even PCP.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Bird [SMTP:tb...@TJBVENTURES.COM] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 4:03 PM > To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems
> MFT only supported a fixed number of tasks in only one real address space > (hence the F). MVT supported a variable number of tasks in only one real > address space (hence the V). SVS supported a variable number of tasks in > a > single virtual address space. MVS supported a variable number of tasks > in > a multiple number of virtual address spaces.
> PCP--->MFT--->MFT II > --->MVT--->SVS--->MVS
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>> as ASP >> (Automatic or Asynchronous depending on who you talked to Spooling >> program) >> was the predecessor to JES3.
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Doug Fuerst
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HASP=Houston Automatic Spooling Priority (Claim to fame is spooling and stingy on cycles.) ASP=Attached Support Processor (Claim to fame is driving more than one processor from a single spool using CTCs and also scheduling I/O devices.)
Regards,
T. Bird President TJB Ventures, Inc. Voice: (707) 226-1100 Fax: (707) 226-1188 Email: tb...@tjbventures.com Web: http://www.tjbventures.com
|--------+-----------------------------> | | Edward Jaffe | | | <edjaffe@PHOENIXSOF| | | TWARE.COM> | | | | | | 02/28/00 11:12 AM | | | Please respond to | | | IBM Mainframe | | | Discussion List | | | | |--------+-----------------------------> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU | | cc: (bcc: Thomas J Bird/IDI) | | Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems | >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
Doug Fuerst wrote:
> HASP (Houston Automatic Spooling Program) is the predecessor to JES2 as ASP > (Automatic or Asynchronous depending on who you talked to Spooling program) > was the predecessor to JES3. And yes you still find HASP references in the > JES2 code.
References? How about the fact that all of the JES2 messages still start with HASP? -- | Edward E. Jaffe | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x318 | | Mgr., Research & Development | Fax: (310) 338-0801 | | Phoenix Software International | edja...@phoenixsoftware.com | | 5200 W. Century Blvd., Suite 800 | USS24J24 at IBMMAIL | | Los Angeles, CA 90045 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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ASP's goal was to drive several machines, each with their own OS image, off one input work stream and sharing devices among them (tape drives, etc.). This became "loosely coupled" when 370 came along as opposed to "tightly coupled" with one OS image like 360/65.
Regards,
T. Bird President TJB Ventures, Inc. Voice: (707) 226-1100 Fax: (707) 226-1188 Email: tb...@tjbventures.com Web: http://www.tjbventures.com
|--------+------------------------------------> | | "Kalinich, John" | | | <kalinichj@ST-LOUIS-EXCH01| | | .ARMY.MIL> | | | | | | 02/28/00 11:48 AM | | | Please respond to IBM | | | Mainframe Discussion List | | | | |--------+------------------------------------> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU | | cc: (bcc: Thomas J Bird/IDI) | | Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems | >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
I once heard an IBMer refer to HASP as "Half an ASP" instead of the Houston name.
> HASP (Houston Automatic Spooling Program) is the predecessor to JES2
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However, the chronology is off; the MVT option was available for a long time before MFT II; in fact, a good deal of MVT code found its way into MFT II and even PCP.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Bird [SMTP:tb...@TJBVENTURES.COM] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 4:03 PM > To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems
> MFT only supported a fixed number of tasks in only one real address space > (hence the F). MVT supported a variable number of tasks in only one real > address space (hence the V). SVS supported a variable number of tasks in > a > single virtual address space. MVS supported a variable number of tasks > in > a multiple number of virtual address spaces.
> PCP--->MFT--->MFT II > --->MVT--->SVS--->MVS
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> That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as > that.
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The ASP group was the same IBM development team that made the Direct Couple into a commercial product. Direct Couple was an attached support processor. This was the IBM Los Angeles Scientific Center staff based in the Kirkiby Building in Westwood and at the UCLA Western Data Processing Center (WDPC). WDPC was also the UCLA home of ARPAnet, but by UCLA staff. The Direct Couple project also had UCLA staff (like me) on it. We got to program some unusual systems, including some IBM stuff that never saw the light of day. WDCOM was a communication system that serviced universities all over the western United States into the Direct Couple system. It supported some interactive products (e.g. 1050) and STR batch devices like 7701, 7702, 1974, etc. I programmed the communicatins for the 7740 front end, which was the precusros to the 2701, 2702, and 2703 on the 360.
Direct Couple came from Simpson & Crabtree at the IBM Houston Site, where they next did HASP. The ASP group also defined a single machine ASP, called LASP, for Local ASP.
ASP became JES3, and moved to the Federal Systems Building in Westlake CA before it went back east to be under Crabtree, along with JES2. The last continuos employee in the west was Art Walters, who then moved to the Santa Teresa labs. I lost track of him there.
> >> as ASP > >> (Automatic or Asynchronous depending on who you talked to Spooling > >> program) > >> was the predecessor to JES3.
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> Doug Fuerst
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>> That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as >> that.
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Doug Fuerst
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oops, somehow I was under the impression that the ASP involved Lockheed SEs. I believe Rick Haeckel also transferred out of the ASP group to STL.
B...@CPUPERFORM.COM (Bob Halpern) writes: > The ASP group was the same IBM development team that made the Direct > Couple into a commercial product. Direct Couple was an attached support > processor. This was the IBM Los Angeles Scientific Center staff based in > the Kirkiby Building in Westwood and at the UCLA Western Data Processing > Center (WDPC). WDPC was also the UCLA home of ARPAnet, but by UCLA staff. > The Direct Couple project also had UCLA staff (like me) on it. We got to > program some unusual systems, including some IBM stuff that never saw the > light of day. WDCOM was a communication system that serviced universities > all over the western United States into the Direct Couple system. It > supported some interactive products (e.g. 1050) and STR batch devices > like 7701, 7702, 1974, etc. I programmed the communicatins for the 7740 > front end, which was the precusros to the 2701, 2702, and 2703 on the 360.
> Although I no longer use them, I do remember when they were .19$USD per pack and > I remember all the other things LSMFT used to mean amongst the adolescents of > the time.
[DEEP SIGH] Yeah, me too.
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Re: ASP. "Attached" sounds right to me, wasn't the original concept to have a small processor doing card/print spooling to support a heavyweight processor doing the data crunching? Wasn't this also done earlier on using 1401/70xx?
Regards, Graeme
Doug Fuerst wrote:
> That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as that.
> >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> >Nope, Attached Support Processor.
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The original idea was to have a shared file (1301) system between a 1400 and a 7000 series system. Some modeling studies by a very sharp IBM lady (Jobi Citroen ?sp) showed it was too slow. So the sites that had already bought the 1400 support system got cheap trade ins for a 7000 (e.g. 7044) support processor for direct couple.
To give you an idea of why the original idea was too slow, the 1301 had a 500 lb head assembly and a glob adder to move the correct amount of hydrolics into the head actuator. That is why direct couple became a product. And that group built ASP.
> Re: ASP. "Attached" sounds right to me, wasn't the original concept to > have a small processor doing card/print spooling to support a > heavyweight processor doing the data crunching? Wasn't this also done > earlier on using 1401/70xx?
> Regards, > Graeme
> Doug Fuerst wrote:
> > That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as that.
> > >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> > >Nope, Attached Support Processor.
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>There was also "ASP", done by SEs out of lockheed ... which eventually >was also picked up by the g'burg group, became a product and renamed >JES3. My wife was in the g'burg group at the time and she got to be >one of the ASP catchers ... starting out reading the ASP listings and >generating a PLM.
H'mmm ... HASP started life outside NASA as a Type-3 program (i.e., written by one or more IBM employees but not a supported IBM product) but was ASP ever distributed by IBM as anything other than an official Type-1 offering? (My experience was exclusively on the HASP side of the house, where we had (1) full source distribution, (2) quick support for new OS/360 releases, and (3) much better songs at SHARE.)
Besides, as a Type-3 program the support team could be assured of getting a laugh at presentations by showing a vugraph of its official vehicle: the Volkswagen "Type 3".
HASP-y days are here a-gain, Fixed core is at an all-time min, To run without it is a sin, HASP-y days are here a-gain!
This traces "JES3 History" From to 1959 current. You even get a short history of how this session came about. It was first given in 1989 at SHARE.
Lee
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems Author: owner-ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu at SMTP Date: 02/29/2000 3:01 AM
Re: ASP. "Attached" sounds right to me, wasn't the original concept to have a small processor doing card/print spooling to support a heavyweight processor doing the data crunching? Wasn't this also done earlier on using 1401/70xx?
Regards, Graeme
Doug Fuerst wrote:
> That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as that.
> >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> >Nope, Attached Support Processor.
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CUNY ran ASP in 1973, and I'm almost certain the 'A' in ASP stood for "Asymmetric".
Something like "Asymmetric Spool Processor", or similar. I never understood why it was called that until I got here and found out how JES3 works, with the GLOBAL/LOCAL concept.
There WAS an "Attached Processor", but it was a hardware upgrade to the 3031/3033 and other boxes. An extra CPU that had no channels.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Graeme Gibson [SMTP:gra...@ASE.COM.AU] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 6:51 PM > To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems
> Re: ASP. "Attached" sounds right to me, wasn't the original concept to > have a small processor doing card/print spooling to support a > heavyweight processor doing the data crunching? Wasn't this also done > earlier on using 1401/70xx?
> Regards, > Graeme
> Doug Fuerst wrote:
> > That's a new one for me, no one I ever talked to ever referred to it as > that.
> > >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> > >Nope, Attached Support Processor.
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Well, I know that there is at least one person on this list who used it and, AFAIK, he never worked at Suitland. The only connection were that there is a lot of energy in the weather and that the wind blows a lot of particles around.
> And I only knew of one place using it, that was NOAA in Suitland MD. they > had 3 370/195's in their ASP complex.
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Before ASP there was DCS, but that was a 7040-7090 or 7044-7094 pair; I never heard of a port of DCS to a 1410, and a 1401 would have been out of the question. Perhaps you're thinking of the common use of a 1401 as an offline card/tape, tape/card and tape/printer machine for, e.g., 7070, 7080, 7090.
Anyone remember the origin of the word SPOOL?
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> -----Original Message----- > From: Graeme Gibson [SMTP:gra...@ASE.COM.AU] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 6:51 PM > To: IBM-M...@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mainframe operating systems
> Re: ASP. "Attached" sounds right to me, wasn't the original concept to > have a small processor doing card/print spooling to support a > heavyweight processor doing the data crunching? Wasn't this also done > earlier on using 1401/70xx?
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On 29 Feb 2000 13:48:54 GMT, Joe Morris <jcmor...@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG> wrote:
> HASP-y days are here a-gain, > Fixed core is at an all-time min, > To run without it is a sin, > HASP-y days are here a-gain!
Allow me to beg, on behalf of the folks using MVT on their Linux systems with the Hercules emulator, for a clean, installable copy of HASP...I'll give the first one to come up with one a case of his or her favorite beer. (Or equivalent.) Think we're nuts? Check out http://www.snipix.freeserve.co.uk/hercules.htm and http://jmaynard.home.texas.net/hercos360 .
That was its original name. IBM later changed its name to Asymmetric Multiprocessor System (IIRC) [ASymmetric multiProcessor system] The acronym sort-of fit.
> And I only knew of one place using it, that was NOAA in Suitland MD. they > had 3 370/195's in their ASP complex.
We had 2 3033's and a 370/195 in our final ASP configuration before we migrated to MVS.
--Barry Finkel
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