Re: Operation Delete Internet Fear ... Continuing
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
Nancy,
I applaud your efforts. I appreciate your approach to these matters as
there are few of us that have your legal expertise to do so.
I, on the other hand, can only take a technology approach to addressing
Internet Safety as I've mentioned before.
It would seem that you are meeting with great opposition regarding
changing the mindset from fear to education, and I'd like to assist in any
way possible with an educational, (non-fear) approach to teaching Internet
Safety and more. In fact, my goal is to use 21st century skills to teach
Internet Safety & Appropriate Use. Additionally, I want to enable teachers
to use these tools across the curriculum which goes hand in hand with many
of the current educational technology initiatives impacting us today.
However, it would seem I've run into as many difficulties proposing a
non-fear based solution to the problem as you have attempting to change
the mindset of the problem.
Personally, I've spoken with the Arizona Department of Education, FOSI,
iNacol, Accreditation Organizations, Educational Standards Groups, Vendors
and with the exception of FOSI it would seem that the best way for me to
have someone embrace this solution would be to either give it away for
free or spend thousands of dollars to buy a vendor partnership, neither of
which I can afford to do as a teacher :)
SO, bottom-line, it's about the kids, so I hope you continue in your
labors as I will also continue my search for a partner that sincerely
embraces meeting these educational technology needs in a safe environment
so we can effectively not only prepare students to address the many issues
online today, but enable them to employ technology successfully.
Regards,
*******
Joe Frost
CEO & Founder RZONZ,LLC
RZONZ.COM
Director of Technology
Department Chair Technology
Phoenix Christian Unified Schools
1751 W. Indian School Road
602-265-4707 ext. 273
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SIGNOFF EDTECH
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
Nancy, I couldn't agree more with you that the federal government should
not be raising awareness about "cybercrime," much less trying to regulate
Internet-delivered educational content, if that will be the outcome of the
legislation. That way lies censorship and top-down control. So in terms
of political outcomes, I suspect we are on the same page. But personally,
the message conveyed in your post's title, "Operation Delete Internet
Fear," quite honestly would alienate even me. Speaking as a father of a
little boy, organizer of http://www.watchknow.org/ and an even newer
educational project in planning stages, and co-founder of Wikipedia, I
think there is a lot indeed to fear, or at least to avoid, online. Again,
we might agree on the means to avoid it. But I spend all day long online,
and have done so for years, and the amount of smut and outright crime
online, to say nothing of other bad influences of all sorts, is
disturbing. I agree that the government has no business in "raising
awareness" of this problem, in my opinion--for regular Internet users, you
might as well raise awareness of the air we breathe--but conveying the
stance that there is no significant problem to begin with looks like a
puzzling denial of reality.
-----
Lawrence M. Sanger, Ph.D. | http://www.larrysanger.org/
Editor-in-Chief, Citizendium | http://www.citizendium.org/
Executive Director, WatchKnow | http://www.watchknow.org/
san...@citizendium.org
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
Larry,
I just spent a good amount of time on your latest project
http://www.watchnow.org
I think it's impressive and quickly forwarded it to my son's teachers.
But, unfortunately, because of the school of thought that Nancy is
battling against they can't benefit from it because youtube is blocked and
many of the videos on your site are in fact hosted by youtube.
That's the difference we are talking about here.
*******
Jeff Hogan, M.S.
Instructional Technology Specialist
Health Sciences
Valencia Community College
1800 S. Kirkman, 4-14
Orlando, Florida 32811
407-582-5564
So why don't you do something about this?
Why are you silent now?
This outrage! Evil men swallow up the righteous
and you stand around and watch! (Habakkuk 1:13)
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
>Larry Sanger wrote:
>
>I agree that the government has no business in "raising awareness" of
this >problem, in my opinion- for regular Internet users, you might as
well >raise awareness of the air we breathe--but conveying the stance
that there >is no significant problem to begin >with looks like a
puzzling denial of >reality.
Larry, I've been following Nancy's philosophy for as many years as I've
known her on EDTECH. Nancy has never ever denied that there is a
significant problem on the internet.
What Nancy advocates is that we teach our children how to recognize these
problems.
It's as basic as the "Stranger Danger" we teach our kiddos from an early age.
We don’t tell our kiddos that Strangers don't exist -- we tell them to
avoid Strangers.
Nobody claims the internet isn't full of predators. What we hope to teach
our children is how to recognize them.
No amount of filters and blocks will keep a truly committed predator from
reaching a child. And if that child hasn't been taught the tools to
recognize and react to such a threat -- where does that leave us?
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
> From: "Jeff Hogan" <jho...@valenciacc.edu>
>
>> Larry Sanger wrote:
>>
>> I agree that the government has no business in "raising awareness" of
> this >problem, in my opinion- for regular Internet users, you might as
> well >raise awareness of the air we breathe--but conveying the stance
> that there >is no significant problem to begin >with looks like a
> puzzling denial of >reality.
>
>
> Larry, I've been following Nancy's philosophy for as many years as I've
> known her on EDTECH. Nancy has never ever denied that there is a
> significant problem on the internet.
>
> What Nancy advocates is that we teach our children how to recognize these
> problems.
>
> It's as basic as the "Stranger Danger" we teach our kiddos from an early
age.
We don¹t tell our kiddos that Strangers don't exist -- we tell them to
> avoid Strangers.
>
> Nobody claims the internet isn't full of predators. What we hope to teach
> our children is how to recognize them.
>
> No amount of filters and blocks will keep a truly committed predator from
> reaching a child. And if that child hasn't been taught the tools to
> recognize and react to such a threat -- where does that leave us?
This is actually an example of why accurate Internet safety education is
necessary for folks in the field of educational technology. The most
important thing about this education is to correct many of the inaccurate
assumptions about these concerns - especially the online predator concerns.
Actually, I do not think there is a significant problem on the Internet - I
think that there is a significant concern that some youth are at risk using
these technologies. So here is what the research shows:
The majority of teens are generally making good choices and effectively
handling the negative incidents. Still they are teens and take risks and
make mistakes. We can help them make even better choices through more
effective education.
The young people at greater risk online are those who have psychosocial
problems - engage in risk behavior, have at risk friends, have disrupted
relations with parents. So we need more comprehensive approaches to address
these concerns.
The greatest risks are not from online strangers - they are from known
peers. These risks include electronic aggression, use by abusive partners,
sexual exploitation, sexting. And because these harmful interactions involve
known peers it is essential that schools mobilize to address these more
serious risks - because quite often the harmful impact is at school.
Some myths that need to be corrected:
Stranger danger warnings are effective. They are not. We have to teach young
people to watch out for the signs of an unsafe person - stranger or not.
Unsafe people tend to be overly friendly and push hard to establish a
"special relationship."
1 in 5 teens have been sexually solicited by an adult predator. No, this was
primarily teen on teen sexual harassment, some young adult on teen - but
some of this could also have been teens pretending to be 18.
Online sexual predation is a huge concern. No, only 1% of all arrests for
sexual abuse of minors.
Predators are deceiving teens by pretending to be other teens, tricking
teens into meeting with them, or tracking teens down by the personal contact
information they post. They are not generally deceptive about age -
sometimes they are. They are not deceptive about sexual interest - they look
for teens who want to talk about sex. The teens meet with them knowing they
are adult men and intending to engage in sex.
At any point in time there are 90,000 predators prowling on MySpace. MySpace
removed 90,000 registered sex offenders as of about 6 months ago. But
although they provided the entire profile of these individuals to law
enforcement, not one had been rearrested for sexual solicitation.
The inaccurate information about predators and the simplistic rules - like
don't post photos, names, or school name are, in my perception, the most
significant barriers to shifting to web 2.0 technologies in schools.
Also, since most teens think these concerns are media hype - which they
clearly are - they are tending to not listen to anything adults might have
to say about Internet risk and protective strategies.
My approach to addressing the Internet safety concerns through professional
development of educators is strongly focused on undoing the damage of so
much inaccurate information presented by the other Internet safety
organizations and law enforcement over the last decade. There are clearly
some risks online - and teens are making stupid mistakes - and some are
being very cruel.
But we have to change our entire approach to talking with them about these
issues - remembering that most of them are or want to make good choices
online.
Nancy
--
Nancy Willard, M.S., J.D.
Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use
http://csriu.org
http://cyberbully.org
http://cyber-safe-kids.com
http://csriu.wordpress.com
nwil...@csriu.org
Cyberbullying and Cyberthreats: Responding to the Challenge of Online Social
Aggression, Threats, and Distress (Research Press)
Cyber-Safe Kids, Cyber-Savvy Teens: Helping Young People Learn to Use the
Internet Safely and Responsibly (Jossey-Bass)
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
Happy to respond to this.
Yes, young people do face risks online - but just as they face risks in the
real world. I have a daughter and son in high school and a son who just
entered middle school. Two who are learning to drive.
The research indicates that the majority of young people are generally
making good choices online and effectively handling the negative situations
that do occur. But they are young. They take risks online, as well as in the
real world. We can increase their insight into the risks and effective
strategies to prevent and respond to risk through more effective education.
But the research also shows that that the scare tactics approach to risk
prevention is entirely ineffective. Fear-based messages and simplistic rules
simply do not work.
What does work is the social norms approach. Since the cast majority of
young people are making good choices online, we can encourage all young
people to make good choices - just like their peers.
What I tell teachers in my materials is that if they try to teach Internet
safety by being a "sage on the stage" they will "trip on their togas." The
best way to teach these issues is through group discussions - where teachers
can help deepen understandings by asking questions. My objective I my
materials is to help teachers know what questions to ask.
The research also indicates that the young people at the greatest risk
online are generally the ones at greater risk in the real world. These are
the young people we need to address in a more targeted manner. But also good
educational approaches will help - because we can encourage these young
people to follow the lead of their more savvy peers.
It is really difficult for me to find the appropriate balance in discussing
these situations. It is hard to communicate about that middle ground.
But I stand by my statement that we have to delete the fear. Because fear
does not accomplish anything good. Raise attention to the risks is what is
necessary.
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
> 1 in 5 teens have been sexually solicited by an adult predator.
This
<http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/12/sexual-predators-200912?printable=true>
article states that the much touted 1-in-5 statistic is complete bunk,
stating:
(snip)
The most widely cited statistic is “one in five,” as in the number of
children who have supposedly been approached by a sexual predator on the
Internet. The origin of this figure is the Department of Justice’s National
Center for Missing & Exploited Children, which first reported it in 2001.
Five years later the center amended the result to one in seven, but by
either measure the figure suggests nothing less than an epidemic.
Until you look closer. The actual question posed in the department’s “Youth
Internet Safety” survey asked teenagers under 17 if they had received
an “unwanted sexual solicitation,” which was defined as follows: “a request
to engage in sexual activities or sexual talk or give personal sexual
information that was unwanted or, whether wanted or not, made by an adult.”
Since “adult” in this case was defined as anyone 17 or older, the
definition included many would-be high-school Romeos, predators of a highly
conventional and not particularly dangerous sort, and also took in a strain
of intimate gossip familiar to all teenage girls. As the study’s authors
themselves noted, half the solicitations came from other teenagers. Not a
single solicitation led to actual sexual contact. Violent sexual predators
hunting children are out there, as they have always been, yet they remain
blessedly rare, and most young people flee such strangeness instinctively.
Only 3 percent of the contacts reported in the survey resembled the one
most feared by parents, the adult stranger attempting to seduce a child.
(end snip)
Regards,
.
Randy
--
"Anyone wanting to commit American ground forces to the mainland of Asia
should have his head examined." -- US Gen. Douglas McArthur.
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
Hello, Larry,
I think you're missing the point.
What Nancy (and, frankly, most people who do not have a financial interest
in a
company selling fear-based curriculum, or blocking software/hardware) is
advocating is an approach that takes a rational approach to a very real
problem: learn about the risk, learn how to spot it, and learn how to
avoid it.
Predators exist in malls, yet we (rightfully) go there.
Predators exist in churches, yet we (rightfully) go there.
There is no place that is fully, completely safe, yet we still all make
our way
out into the world regardless -- and we send our children, partners, loved
ones
out as well, because becoming crippled by fear benefits no one.
One large difference between the Internet and the Real World: search. The
Internet lets us conduct searches that group all the mentions of the bad
things. I wonder how a similar filter would work in any other public setting.
Cheers,
Bill
EDTECH Editor-Hogan
and I am speaking in vague generalities. But it seems to me that while I
agree with Nancy in opposing this legislation, apparently I am doing so for
different reasons. I think there are many things indeed to *fear*
online--predators don't even begin to cover it--and that parents, above all,
have to guide their children in how they use the Internet. But especially
in these cash-strapped times, I don't think it's the place of a federal
government to "raise awareness" and prescribe solutions for what virtually
all parents and teachers--and for that matter, no doubt many kids--already
know very well.
--Larry