John Henry Newman
Chuck White
if he knew what some misguided faithful were doing in his name...
And regarding JJ's signature quote - its very dangerous and misleading
to take a person's words out of context.
Gerard Bugge
> I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry Newman
> is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after. St. Paul's is a
> Catholic church in my town that has no place to kneel, and has a Nun giving
> the Gospel reading and the Homily. The place feels very Protestant to me.
> Now when I read JJ's signature quoting a person attacking the current
> notion of the office of the Bishop of Rome, and at the same time Catholic
> Churches are named after this person, I am thoroughly confused.
Dear Dale: Join the crowd!
Gerard Serafin
Dale Staton
I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry Newman
is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after. St. Paul's is a
Catholic church in my town that has no place to kneel, and has a Nun giving
the Gospel reading and the Homily. The place feels very Protestant to me.
When I was there, what I had understood to be the "bottom line" of the
Catholic Church suddenly vanished, and I wondered what the bottom line
actually was.
Now when I read JJ's signature quoting a person attacking the current
notion of the office of the Bishop of Rome, and at the same time Catholic
Churches are named after this person, I am thoroughly confused.
Dale
>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
>J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
>J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
Gerard Bugge
It would be like making a sig.file of Jesus' word about "unless
one hate's ones mother and father" and leaving it just like that.....
Gerard Serafin
Tom Kreitzberg
> I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry
> Newman is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after. St. Paul's
> is a Catholic church in my town that has no place to kneel, and has a Nun
> giving the Gospel reading and the Homily. The place feels very Protestant
> to me.
Newman Centers are indeed named for John Henry Newman, who founded the
ill-fated Catholic University in Dublin about 1850. If his "The Idea of a
University" still represents his opinions, he isn't much pleased with many
of the universities in the U.S. -- very little Latin and Greek, and by
definition a university must teach all disciplines of truth, including
theology.
Now, college students are a funny lot. When not staying up all night
wondering whether Bullwinkle could take Snagglepuss in a no-holds-barred
fight, or drinking to a slobbery incontinence in a frat house basement,
they're off making a complete hash of religion and liturgy, with hep
priests and nuns coming along for the ride. Thus, a Newman Center Mass is
often -- though not always -- fairly loopy.
> Now when I read JJ's signature quoting a person attacking the current
> notion of the office of the Bishop of Rome, and at the same time Catholic
> Churches are named after this person, I am thoroughly confused.
Newman's comment was in a private letter, expressing a private opinion.
He and Pope Pius IX (who served about 32 years and called Vatican I) had
their troubles differences. Newman wasn't laying down a dogmatic
principle, merely observing what can happen when one person remains in
power for a long time. You can ask J.J. whether there is any significance
to his use of the quotation in his .sig.
See http://betty.music.temple.edu:80/Newman/newman.html for a brief
biograph of Newman (who was declared venerable on January 22, 1991), or
read his "Apologia Pro Vita Sua" for an idea why he is not a bad role
model for Catholic university students.
Tom
Fiona Marsden
> On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Dale Staton wrote:
>
> > I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry Newman
> > is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after. St. Paul's is a
> > Catholic church in my town that has no place to kneel, and has a Nun giving
> > the Gospel reading and the Homily. The place feels very Protestant to me.
> > Now when I read JJ's signature quoting a person attacking the current
> > notion of the office of the Bishop of Rome, and at the same time Catholic
> > Churches are named after this person, I am thoroughly confused.
>
> Dear Dale: Join the crowd!
>
It's not really as confusing as it sounds Dale. Many of the Newman
Centres Personal consider themselves very advanced...this does not
necessarily mean they reflect his view of the church.
As for J.J.s quote...which is from last century...as a dearly departed
friend of mine once said (actually several times) CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!
Newman was commenting on a particular situation and as the present Pope
has not ruled for 20 years YET I think you should ignore it as one of
JJ's rather interesting worldviews.
Semper Fi $:-]
J.J. Ursic
Gerard, evidently you have trouble with English. The phrase you proposed
as similar to my .sig is not a complete sentence. Thoughts are best composed
in complete sentences and that is the construction of my .sig quote.
Dale Staton
>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
>J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
>J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
Hello J.J.
While I have received several sources to look up the life of John Henry
Newman, I haven't had the chance to find them yet. I would, however
appreciate your views on him before I begin reading. He seems to have had
an important impact on your life, and I would like to consider your
thoughts about him when I get the chance to read about his life.
Thanks,
Dale
J.J. Ursic
Opps, sorry Dale for that last incomplete message, I accidently hit the
send button when I was searching around my options. Here is the completed
message:-)
>Every time J.J Ursic posts, his .sig is as follows:
>
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>>J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
>>J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
>>J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
Dale, a .sig is a file that is called up everytime I compose a letter. Your
mailserver may also have this option if you explore around. In my mailserver
under "options" there's a select user preferences section which has a box to
click on that says "include signature". In this box if the file name to
include. I created this file separately from my mailserver utility.
>Hello J.J.
>
>While I have received several sources to look up the life of John Henry
>Newman, I haven't had the chance to find them yet. I would, however
>appreciate your views on him before I begin reading. He seems to have had
>an important impact on your life, and I would like to consider your
>thoughts about him when I get the chance to read about his life.
Dale, Newman had no more impact on my life than most any other Catholic who
proceeded me. I would suggest that if you're truely interested in his
life that you read him first, form your own impression of him, and then ask
people's opinion. Otherwise you may read with bias.
J.J. Ursic
>Every time J.J Ursic posts, his .sig is as follows:
>
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>>J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
>>J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
>>J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
Dale, a .sig is a file that is called up everytime I compose a letter. Your
mailserver may also have this option if you explore around.
Hello J.J.
While I have received several sources to look up the life of John Henry
Newman, I haven't had the chance to find them yet. I would, however
appreciate your views on him before I begin reading. He seems to have had
an important impact on your life, and I would like to consider your
thoughts about him when I get the chance to read about his life.
Thanks,
Dale
--- End Included Message ---
Gerard Bugge
> Gerard Bugge <gbu...@MAIL.BCPL.LIB.MD.US> writes:
>
> >On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Chuck White wrote:
> >
> >> And you can bet that John Cardinal Newman would be rolling in his grave
> >> if he knew what some misguided faithful were doing in his name...
> >> And regarding JJ's signature quote - its very dangerous and misleading
> >> to take a person's words out of context.
> >
> > It would be like making a sig.file of Jesus' word about "unless
> >one hate's ones mother and father" and leaving it just like that.....
>
> Gerard, evidently you have trouble with English. The phrase you proposed
> as similar to my .sig is not a complete sentence. Thoughts are best composed
> in complete sentences and that is the construction of my .sig quote.
Thanks for the critique. Yes, my English is quite lousy. Glad
you picked up on that.
Gerard Serafin
Dale Staton
>>
>>Every time J.J Ursic posts, his .sig is as follows:
>>
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>>J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
>>J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
>>J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
>>JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>>
>>
>>While I have received several sources to look up the life of John Henry
>>Newman, I haven't had the chance to find them yet. I would, however
>>appreciate your views on him before I begin reading. He seems to have had
>>an important impact on your life, and I would like to consider your
>>thoughts about him when I get the chance to read about his life.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dale
>>
To which J.J. answered:
>Dale, a .sig is a file that is called up everytime I compose a letter. Your
>mailserver may also have this option if you explore around.
J.J-
Thank you for that bit of information. However, I was more interested in
your views on Johh Henry Newman than I was in how to create a signature
file.
Dale
Iain Wilson
>Hello-
>
>I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry Newman
>is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after. St. Paul's is a
>Catholic church in my town that has no place to kneel, and has a Nun giving
>the Gospel reading and the Homily. The place feels very Protestant to me.
Quite probably the same Newman - but in the UK, Newmanites are more
likely to be quite orthodox (e.g. the Newman Society at the Univ. of
Oxford always appeared to be in 'right-wing' hands; and the Newman
Centre Trust appears conservative). When at a conference in Seattle, the
nearest Mass to the U o W Halls of Residence was at a Newman Centre -
let's say it wasn't my favourite - and didn't have places to kneel,
folksy music, etc. - but I'm conservative liturgically/musically anyway.
>When I was there, what I had understood to be the "bottom line" of the
>Catholic Church suddenly vanished, and I wondered what the bottom line
>actually was.
I think people can pervert the (Roman Catholic) Church for their own ends
- I find it disturbing when the name Vatican II is so frequently taken in
vain. Perhaps it's not so important theoretically whether or not a nun
reads the Gospel or gives the Homily - it's the general snub to authority
which affects some parts of the Church - but snubbing authority is just
part of Western culture these days; the only sin is to be politically
incorrect.
>Now when I read JJ's signature quoting a person attacking the current
>notion of the office of the Bishop of Rome, and at the same time Catholic
>Churches are named after this person, I am thoroughly confused.
I'm confused about the quote itself - where/when was it written and in
what context. If you have ever read Apologia pro sua vita then you will
find that Newman was not a 'liberal' and came (at least at the time of
writing the Apologia) to fully accepting Catholic teaching. But wasn't
Vatican I the council that formally defined Papal Infallibility? So the
context of Newman's quote may be better seen within the discussions the
Church presumably went through in the late 19th century on the role of
the Pope.
--
Iain Wilson Institut fuer Chemie
Tel: 43-1-47654-6065 Universitaet fuer Bodenkultur
Fax: 43-1-310-5176 Gregor-Mendel-Strasse 33
E-mail: wil...@edv1.boku.ac.at A-1180, WIEN, Austria
Fiona Marsden
>
> Gerard, evidently you have trouble with English. The phrase you proposed
> as similar to my .sig is not a complete sentence. Thoughts are best composed
> in complete sentences and that is the construction of my .sig quote.
>
>
> JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
> J "We have come to a climax of tyranny. It is not good for a pope to J
> J live for twenty years. It is an anomaly and bears no fruit; he J
> J becomes a god, he has no-one to contradict him." John Henry Newman J
> JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
>
In fact there are three sentences...does that make it a paragraph????
Semper Fi $:-]
Thomas Bridge
> Newman Centers are indeed named for John Henry Newman, who founded the
> ill-fated Catholic University in Dublin about 1850. If his "The Idea of a
I have to laugh. Newman's University evolved into University College
Dublin, one of the colleges of the National Univerisity of Ireland. As
a Trinity student, I'm rather inclined to look down on UCD (in much
the same way as Oxford does to Cambridge). UCD however is the
largest college in the country. In one way at least, it's not
illfated.
Merry Christmas.
--
Thomas Bridge - tho...@maths.tcd.ie -WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~thomas/
Tom Whalen
: > I keep reading JJ's signature, and am wondering if this John Henry Newman
: > is the person whom the Newman Centers are named after.
This was discussed at length a while ago. Apparently _the_ John Henry
Newman did indeed say this at some point in his life, though it is
totally uncharacteristic of the body of his life and work. As one who
has been victimized by an out-of context quote of an unguarded comment in
a Computerworld headline myself, my sympathy goes out to Newman!
Unfortunately, JJ's signature just adds a few more rpm to the spinning in
the Cardinal's grave occasioned by the hi-jinks that go on at the
majority of campus Newman Centers.
--
Tom Whalen dsc...@gsusgi2.gsu.edu voice (404)651-4080 fax (404)651-3498
Professor of Decision Science
The Georgia State University "Bless you. You shall be blameless yet
Atlanta, GA 30303-3083 USA For God forgives, and men forget." G.K.C.