why would BET forget the blues?
chuck n.
idea why the black owned and operated BET network would completely LEAVE the
Blues out of their recent (2nd Annual) awards show? Certainly there must be
AT LEAST ONE act, or performer, out there in the Blues realm that they could
see something noteworthy in.
Blues music's place (of distinction imo) in
the history of African American music and entertainment DESERVES BETTER than
to be forgotten by those who are giving out the awards.
Here's the AP story:
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The rock-soul group Earth, Wind & Fire received a
lifetime achievement award and boxer Muhammad Ali was honored with a
humanitarian award at the second annual BET awards Tuesday evening.
The Black Entertainment Television event recognizes people of color in
music, film and sports categories. The awards are voted by record label
executives, media and fans.
Hosts for the ceremony at Hollywood's Kodak Theatre were comedians Steve
Harvey and Cedric the Entertainer.
Halle Berry, who won a best actress Oscar for "Monster's Ball," took home
the favorite actress prize; Will Smith, who starred in the boxing biography
"Ali," won the actor award. Neither prize specified a particular role.
Earth Wind & Fire was recognized for more than 30 years of musical
achievement. The group was founded by drummer Maurice White and includes his
bassist brother Verdine White, and singer-percussionists Philip Bailey and
Ralph Johnson.
Other winners of the second annual BET awards:
Music group: OutKast
Male R&B artist: Usher
Female R&B artist: India.Arie
Male hip hop artist: Ja Rule
Female hip hop artist: Missy Elliott
New artist: Alicia Keys
Gospel artist: Yolanda Adams
Video of the year: "Pass The Courvoisier, Part II," Busta Rhymes featuring
P. Diddy and Pharrell
Male athlete: Kobe Bryant
Female athlete: Laila Ali
Chairman's award: Dr. Bobby Jones, gospel singer
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Oscar Jordan
> Just to show ya that I'm an equal opportunity
> antagonist, anyone have any
> idea why the black owned and operated BET network
> would completely LEAVE the
> Blues out of their recent (2nd Annual) awards show?
> Certainly there must be
> AT LEAST ONE act, or performer, out there in the
> Blues realm that they could
> see something noteworthy in.
>
> Blues music's place (of distinction imo) in
> the history of African American music and
> entertainment DESERVES BETTER than
> to be forgotten by those who are giving out the
> awards.
>
Who knows. My opinion is that Blues is simply not
mainstream music for Black audiences today. It's
irrelevent to them but given respect. It was handed
over to White fans who love to look back to the past.
Blacks have moved on long ago. Blues was given away
to make way for other forms of music. The majority of
people who attend Blues concerts (And organize them)
are White. It's a sweeping generalization but the
next time you go to a big Blues show, look out in the
audience. BET is not in the house.
When I visit my relatives in "The Hood" they much
rather go to an Earth Wind & Fire concert than see
Long John Hunter. Time marches on.
Oscar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
Sal Stevens
not mainstream and it ain't that popular, whether you are talking about with
black or white audiences...
When I was in Memphis for the Handy Awards...I looked around wondering how the
tourism folks and others in Memphis might view the event from an economic
impact perspective...and I would bet there weren't more than 2,000 people TOPS
that came in from out-of-town for the event - soo...I doubt that the powers
that be necessarily view the Handys as a very significant event....those of us
who look at it from a heritage standpoint view it as such...but....it is the
personalities/celebs and the genres that actually draw, that get the
attention and recognition.
During the Essence fest, that was here in NOLA several weeks ago... the
comedian Steve Harvey, who was also on the BET awards, saw NOLA's new mayor,
Ray Nagin sittin' in the front row and said..."where do y'all keep gettin these
pimps for mayor?"
There were, by the way a number of blues acts at Essence....Denise LaSalle,
Tyrone Davis, Etta James...
Sal
=====
NEW ORLEANS BLUES PROJECT
The BLUES HIGHWAY Millennium Trail
"Community Development Through Music"
http://www.BluesProject.com
1112 Ninth St.
New Orleans, LA 70115
Blue Stew
BET, as on most anything on the boob tube,(which I don't even watch anymore
except the history channel, so I shouldn't even be commenting on this.) But
that's never stopped me before HA HA HA so here goze.
The only demographics tv is interested in is young and stupid, young and
trendy, young and Hip-Hoppity, young and spend crazy and.....did I mention
YOUNG.
Young, trendy, mall rats that couldn't tell you who George Washington Carver
is, let alone who the 1st pres of the US is.
It's geared toward people who would rather own a pair of $200. Michael
Jordan sneakers than give a rats turd to know the accomplishments of Louie
Jordan or Louis Armstrong.
That's imo why BET might forget the blues. Mike Miller
Blue Stew
It's the whites that wanna take the black past, shine it all up, re-package
it and sell it like some new archeology find.
Whatever it takes, but the blues is too important to be left alone in the
history books. Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Blues Music List [mailto:BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU]On Behalf Of
chuck n.
as art, it is timeless....despite that MOST retailers (and some mfgs) insist
on presenting it as a disposable entity with a shelf life of only 14 minutes
longer than bread. If your theory is sound, then so be it. I'd rather it be
whites to recognize the historical and cultural significance of this
bluesmusic as art (and history), than for it to be left behind because some
short-sighted people either can't or refuse to. As I
have said before, I weight the validity of whites involvement in the blues
genre by asking this question; If you were to be
able to somehow take all of the white folks (DIRECT and INDIRECT, both PAST
and PRESENT) involvement out of the big picture, would the Blues be better
off, or more vital, than it is? Personally, I think not. chuck
J.J. Perry
The Beatles, etc. ... now those are the classics.
Blues is a blip on the radar. Is it BET's fault? Probably not.
J.J.
"Blues Shot" http://www.bluemarble.net/~jjperry
Joe Griffin
I understand why these folks are more into the mainstream, but, as such, why
would Laila Ali be female athlete of the year? Yes she is a wonderful
athlete, but the accomplishments of either one of the Williams sisters this
year would have made them a better choice.
Grif
Chuck attached:
Female athlete: Laila Ali
Oscar Jordan
> Oscar I think you've nailed it. I've heard the same
> thing from some blacks.
> It's the whites that wanna take the black past,
> shine it all up, re-package
> it and sell it like some new archeology find.
> Whatever it takes, but the blues is too important to
> be left alone in the
> history books. Mike
So true. But there are many atypical Blacks like
myself who like to explore the past as well as the
present. Louis Armstrong is as important to me as
Prince in their contributions to music.
If anything you could hold court at parties by boring
people about the Hot Five's & Sevens. Lol!!!
Oscar Jordan
> I'd rather look at blues music as art, and
> as art, it is timeless....despite that MOST
> retailers (and some mfgs) insist
> on presenting it as a disposable entity with a shelf
> life of only 14 minutes
> longer than bread. If your theory is sound, then so
> be it. I'd rather it be
> whites to recognize the historical and cultural
> significance of this
> bluesmusic as art (and history), than for it to be
> left behind because some
> short-sighted people either can't or refuse to. As I
> have said before, I weight the validity of whites
> involvement in the blues
> genre by asking this question; If you were to be
> able to somehow take all of the white folks (DIRECT
> and INDIRECT, both PAST
> and PRESENT) involvement out of the big picture,
> would the Blues be better
> off, or more vital, than it is? Personally, I think
> not. chuck
It's the nature of evolution and change. For all the
untold millions who look to Faith Hill to give them
their country music there will always be those who
won't be happy until they get their Johnny Cash fix.
The Johnny Cash types keep it going by turning on
others with their record collections and knowledge.
Therefore it never really goes away. The world needs
to remember it's history.
Jinx...@aol.com
>As I have said before, I weight the validity of whites involvement in the
blues
>genre by asking this question; If you were to be
>able to somehow take all of the white folks (DIRECT and INDIRECT, both
>PAST
>and PRESENT) involvement out of the big picture, would the Blues be better
>off, or more vital, than it is? Personally, I think not. chuck
You are so wrong here that it belittles the imagination to comprehend how you
could ask this from any valid point of view.
I will give you three names and you tell me that blues is no better off for
their participation:
Strachwitz
Chess
Koester
If you feel that their contributions have not mattered in the slightest, than
you are cheating yourself out of some fine music.
Dick Waterman
Oxford, MS
View my blues T-shirts at:
http://p-dub.com/Jinx/photo_t.htm
chuck n.
post you'll find that your position is exactly the same as the one I took in
my original post. In other words, the blues ARE better off for white folks
invovlement.
>From: Jinx...@aol.com
>Reply-To: Jinx...@aol.com
>To: BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>Subject: Re: why would BET forget the blues?
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Jinx...@aol.com
>
>
>WHOA there Hoss, if you'll slow down, take a real deep breath, and reread
>my
>post you'll find that your position is exactly the same as the one I took
>in
>my original post. In other words, the blues ARE better off for white folks
>
>invovlement.
>
>>From: Jinx...@aol.com
>>Reply-To: Jinx...@aol.com
>>To: BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>>Subject: Re: why would BET forget the blues?
>>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:04:19 EDT
>>
>>In a message dated 7/15/02 4:55:54 AM, cne...@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>> >As I have said before, I weight the validity of whites involvement in
>the
>>blues
>> >genre by asking this question. If you were to be
>> >able to somehow take all of the white folks (DIRECT and INDIRECT, both
>> >PAST
>> >and PRESENT) involvement out of the big picture, would the Blues be
>
>>better
>> >off, or more vital, than it is? Personally, I think not. chuck
I read what you are saying but I still have to go by your words.
Start reading with:
"If you were to be able" and continue on to your name, that sentence clearly
indicates that blues would NOT be better off because of the involvement of
white people.
Am I missing something here?
Dick Waterman
George - Curtis J.
It is surprising that BET would not have a blues category.
Also the sencond message makes another good point of "The Blues" not being
a a popular music to most African Americans today. Come to think of it
most of the faces I see at the Blues Festivals I go to are white.
Curtis J. George :-)}
cjge...@umd5.umd.edu
Ron Weinstock
<< Good points made here in both messages.
It is surprising that BET would not have a blues category.
Also the sencond message makes another good point of "The Blues" not being
a a popular music to most African Americans today. Come to think of it
most of the faces I see at the Blues Festivals I go to are white.
Curtis J. George :-)}
cjge...@umd5.umd.edu >>
Curtis you obviously have not been at the Bluebird Blues Festival in Prince
Georges county Maryland which has a mostly black audience or been down to one
of the shows at Lamont's in Pomonkey, MD where there are only a handful of
white faces. The DC Blues Festival always draws a substantial amount of
blacks as part of its attendance.
Ron Weinstock
Ron Weinstock
Michael Murphy
Curtis you obviously have not been at the Bluebird Blues Festival in Prince
Georges county Maryland which has a mostly black audience or been down to
one
of the shows at Lamont's in Pomonkey, MD where there are only a handful of
white faces. The DC Blues Festival always draws a substantial amount of
blacks as part of its attendance.>>
Exceptions to the majority of the fests. Curtis, as is others on this list
who have expressed similar sentiments, are right. The majority of the
festivals across the U.S., as is noted by the festival sponsors and
producers, are of predominantly white attendance. We can speculate (or
argue, as is the case with many zellers) on why, but the fact remains, with
the exception of two or three, most of the festival goers are white.
dog
JBW
Also I have watched their program listings over the years and I have NEVER
seen a blues show although I have seen some great R&B and soul shows in the
past. It's like they are embarrassed by the blues or something... Hmmm, that
could be a song I think... Most likely, the money is in the rap/hip hop
generation and they are, as expected of most businesses, following the
money...
Rgds...Jim
---------------------------------------------
jwe...@iadfw.net
jbw...@attbi.com
www.geocities.com/big_jim_wells
chuck n.
>Reply-To: Jinx...@aol.com
>To: BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>Subject: Re: why would BET forget the blues?
Yep. Comprehension skills. Read it again, and I'll make it a little easier
for by removing the portion in parenthesis: <<<If you were
to be able to somehow take all of the white folks involvement out of the big
picture, would the Blues be better off, or more vital, than it is?
Personally, I think not.chuck>>>
I sincerely hope that helps you understand what I was saying. Several people
wrote telling me it was clear to them, so I'm not sure what the problem is
on your end. Pixel damage perhaps.
love, peace, & beaucoup happiness. chuck
Fred Dabney
> people about the Hot Five's & Sevens. Lol!!!
Among the seven wonders of the modern world. It
should be this sort of thing which gets awards from
BET.
But as I've said, white people have no monopoly on
bad taste...
Fred D.
Oscar Jordan
Definetly one of MY top seven wonders of the modern
world, but I don't think that because they weren't
nominated for any kind of award on BET means they have
bad taste or don't appreciate Pops. He's simply not
apart of this particular program.
Personally, I don't need validation from an award show
to tell me how great he was. I'm sure you don't
either.
Fred Dabney
not being
> a a popular music to most African Americans today. Come to
think of it
> most of the faces I see at the Blues Festivals I go to are
white.
>
Festival in Prince
> Georges county Maryland which has a mostly black audience or
been down to one
> of the shows at Lamont's in Pomonkey, MD where there are only a
handful of
> white faces. The DC Blues Festival always draws a substantial
amount of
> blacks as part of its attendance.
We've been over this before.
Part of it may be regional, part of it may be the acts booked,
but I suspect on the national average, there are far fewer
blacks interested in blues in proportion to their numbers
in the population than whites. At least, blues as it is
defined by the majority of the list members here.
I don't have numbers on this, only anecdotal data.
Same for jazz as well...
I do know that I have a few black listeners. They are
prisoners in the federal prison in La Tuna, south of
here, and they bemoan the fact that I play "so much
old stuff" and ask constantly for Malaco soul artists.
I try to oblige but Malaco never sends me anything
but those stupid singles and not many of them so
I have to play "that old stuff" Malaco to fill their requests.
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
> to tell me how great he was. I'm sure you don't
> either.
Most certainly not.
But when I venture into the local pusher and see the
stuff on the racks with black folk on the covers, I feel
somehow ashamed that after the decades of pain and
agony they went through to get to the point where they
can have their pictures on record covers, magazines and
such, what do they get for it? Oprah?
Fred D.
hoodoojimmy
blacks interested in blues in proportion to their numbers
in the population than whites."
If I take this statement from Fred D. as true, or acceptable, which I am
willing to do and agree that it is a shared perception by
many...............then I'm always left with a big question......why? All of
us (well, most I guess) on this group have a deep reverence for the blues in
all respects. We appreciate its sincerety, its authenticity, and the
quality and perserverance of the music as an art form.
All that is just eloquently saying that blues is good shit.
and being that it is good shit, and being the high percentage of blacks
involved in the writing, playing and performing blues music, and being the
fact that blacks as a culture lay claim to the amazing accomplishment of
creating this incredible artform.......................it makes no sense
whatsoever for BET to ignore something of such great import. Somebody needs
to get their asses on the ball. Simple as that!
But I think there's another side to consider also: Most of the bands I play
with are black, and we play in a ton of clubs that are by far majority
black. Sometimes I'm the only white guy in the place ( which i love!). These
clubs are packed.................weeknights and weekends. Patrons dance, cut
up, and know the words to most of the standard tunes we
play..............and they love the blues!!!
At these clubs there ain't no cover, its "right down the road", and beers
come with a napkin for $1.50 tops. On the other hand, going out to big
clubs, travelling to festivals (and incurring a bunch of expenses even of
the admission is free), buying $18-$24 T-Shirts......all of it just ain't a
luxury that everyone can afford...... hell... tyree Neal didn't even buy a
T-Shirt with his name on the back from the Chicago Blues Festival cause it
was too much money ($24).
I think I'm saying that this perception is true only at those places that
are economically unfeasible for people below a certain income. Therefore
festivals, House of Blues', Legends, B.B. Kings...........anything involving
$$$ is gonna be skewed toward higher income and mobility
Here's another example: Kenny Neal put on a benefit concert/party for E.
Rodney Jones ( and his mama's birthday). Kenny and all the Neals played,
Little Milton performed, Rudy Richard and Chuck Mitchell..........it was a
great show put on at a club "across the river" in Baton Rouge terms.
Admission was $5.00, and beer and drinks were cheap. It drew right at 1000
people, 95% being black...................on the other hand........Robert
Cray came to town, played at the Varsity Theatre (great stage, great sound,
great everything.........in the "college" end of town....and $15.00
admisiion plus expensive drinks. ......It ALSO drew right at a
thousand.....95% WHITE!
The New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival, a literal smorg-ass-board of
incredible music, is loved equally by blacks and whites. It is situated
right in the middle of a huge black populated area.....................but
there's a big gate....and $18.00 to get to the other side. When ya get there
.........duhhhh!........it's mainly white. Back outside, on every street,
every porch and every driveway black folks are partying big time to the same
music, and the same vibes of the same festival. They saved the $18, and to
my experience had a better time than anybody inside standing in the huge
crowd trying to make out some "star" on the stage.
None of this is meant to be prejudicial in any way, and certainly doesn't
apply to everybody (...the names and faces have been changed to protect the
innocent...), but I think this is an explanation that must be considered
when looking at percentages of attendance at different types of events.
Not only does BET have an obligation as a public broadcaster to address
these economical inequities, and far worse....they are just plain stupid not
to understand or embrace the importance of blues music. They are missing a
huge audience of viewers. After all, I think that any culture's music is the
most important and longest lasting achievements..................and blues
is one of the very few that have so successfully transcended many cultures.
That is a rare accolade.
So..........yes......that was really good smoke tonite........I'll probably
hate myself in the morning for whatever BS I said.
I played a gig tonite with David Hyde, who is good friends and plays often
with Delbert. I explained the whole question thing to David, and he is gonna
try and get something definitive as a response or whatever.....just because
I think the whole thread comes off negative toward Delbert and I think it
should be resolved.
AND, as luck would have it!!.....David Hyde is Jewish!! therefore I've
responded to three different threads in one long and boring
post.....therefore divide its length and bullshit factor by three!!! All
right...I'm quitting.
HoodooJimmy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Dabney" <fda...@nmsu.edu>
To: <BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: why would BET forget the blues?
Douglas Waltner
Eaglin, Muddy Waters, and others.
Doug
Joel Fritz
include Kenny G, Madonna, John Grisham, Larry King.... I'm not real fond of
Oprah, but she's probably more palatable than some of the folks in sentence
1.
When you enter the mainstream I believe there's a phrase that's similar to
"cream rises to the top" that applies. <g>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Dabney" <fda...@NMSU.EDU>
To: <BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
Jinx...@aol.com
>Course the rewards caucasians get for dominating pop culture in the US
>include Kenny G, Madonna, John Grisham, Larry King.... I'm not real fond of
>Oprah, but she's probably more palatable than some of the folks in sentence
1.
I single out Oprah Winfrey as being "Oreo of the Millennium" for the total
absence of anything to do with her own heritage.
Remember, girl, you were born in Attala County, Mississippi, dirt poor and
living on next to nothing.
I agree that she has worked hard and has shrewdly build an empire of both
television and magazine fame.
She broadcasts from one of the blues centers of world, Chicago, and yet she
has 'never' devoted a program to her own path and those who walked it before
her.
Mississippi born soul singer Jerry Butler ("Only the Strong Survive") is an
elected official in Chicago and we would do just fine as a co-host to help
move her through the hour. She could devote some clips on Muddy, Wolf, the
history of Chess Records and then have live music by Buddy Guy (Louisiana
born) and a variety of others.
Oprah has the money and the media clout but she needs a soul transfusion.
Dick Waterman
Oxford, MS
Joel Fritz
black entertainers who've made it big in the mainstream have made the same
compromises that entertainers of other races and ethnic backgrounds made in
order to maximize success. I don't know whether she has an obligation to
the blues or not.
I think it has a lot to do with what they used to call "assimilation." One
of my Dad's pet peeves when I was growing up was what he called the
"anti-semitic Jew." He was the first generation US born child of Jewish
immigrants and proud of it. He knew a lot of people of similar heritage who
tried to ignore it or had contempt for their parents' way of life. If you
look at the Jewish entertainers of my grandparents' generation, some like
Jolson and Eddie Cantor were up front about their ancestry and some adopted
anglo stage names and didn't say too much about it. (My grandfather went to
high school with a guy named Nathan Birnbaum who changed his name. Jolson
changed his name too.)
Oscar Jordan
I don't understand the great confusion and the
scratching of heads on this issue. If you look at the
musical history of African American culture (Not just
Blues), a light bulb will come on over your head
followed by the verbal, "Doh!"
Generally speaking, Blacks innovate and move on. They
look back only to extrapolate and procede to a new
place. Not look back and stay there and spend a
generation trying to figure out what Robert Johnson's
last meal was. We tend to leave that to the
historians, who to my knowledge are mostly White.
From Dixieland to Blues to Be-Bop to R&B to Free Jazz
to Rap to Hip-Hop, are all examples of moving forward.
A tradition of innovation. You have to break those
ties to move ahead, and it's audience follows. And it
IS innovation though the style may not be everybody's
cup of tea.
It's no wonder that a contemporary Black Awards Show
doesn't spotlight Blues. Why would they? The core
audience isn't a Blues audience. Fifty years ago
maybe! It's old music and currently white dominated
though it's history is Black (As is Rock & Roll).
Though these are generalizations people still do what
they want and listen to what they want. I do. I play
Blues as well as Jazz standards and I could care less
if when I look out in the audience I see mostly White.
I'm doing my thing and it makes me happy.
Fred Dabney
which I am
> willing to do and agree that it is a shared perception by
> many...............then I'm always left with a big
question......why? All of
> us (well, most I guess) on this group have a deep reverence for
the blues in
> all respects. We appreciate its sincerety, its authenticity,
and the
> quality and perserverance of the music as an art form.
> All that is just eloquently saying that blues is good shit.
> and being that it is good shit, and being the high percentage of
blacks
> involved in the writing, playing and performing blues music, and
being the
> fact that blacks as a culture lay claim to the amazing
accomplishment of
> creating this incredible artform.......................it makes
no sense
> whatsoever for BET to ignore something of such great import.
Somebody needs
> to get their asses on the ball. Simple as that!
Without addressing Hoodoo Jimmie's points about
costs (good ones and deserving of more consideration)
I like to draw parallels between blues and opera.
Once you get past the style of singing and playing,
there is a whale of a lot in common between them, far
more than I suspect most listers realize. Themes
of love and betrayal just as a start.
One thing which they have in common is the fan base.
Opera fans can be very vocal about their favorites,
fights have broken out over which singer or conductor
is better, and you can take just about every theme
that arises here about this or that aspect of the blues
and find an exact equivalent in the opera world.
And, like blues, it's very much a minority enthusiasm.
I like both, but few of my friends like either, often for the
same reasons...
Fred D.
George - Curtis J.
you mentioned.
Curtis George
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Michael Murphy wrote:
George - Curtis J.
Curtis J. George :-)}
cjge...@umd5.umd.edu
Lil Bug
of the very last original bluesmen, Honeyboy Edwards.
She did not respond, and I don't remember seeing the hour devoted to Mr.
Edwards!
LB
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jinx...@aol.com>
To: <BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
Oscar Jordan
Oscar
Robert J Dewar
My father wanted me to play the bagpipes, wear tartan, play "football"
(soccer) and enjoy haggis. All part of his Selkirk Scot heritage. I had none
of it.
I was more into smoking pot, bell bottoms, tennis and A&W hamburgers. :)
Now, I made those choices freely and basically there was very little
consequence for me if I chose either side. For many Jews, not changing their
name often meant no career. Or a much less lucrative one.
Robert J Dewar
> I think it has a lot to do with what they used to call "assimilation."
One
> of my Dad's pet peeves when I was growing up was what he called the
> "anti-semitic Jew." He was the first generation US born child of Jewish
> immigrants and proud of it. He knew a lot of people of similar heritage
who
> tried to ignore it or had contempt for their parents' way of life. If you
> look at the Jewish entertainers of my grandparents' generation, some like
> Jolson and Eddie Cantor were up front about their ancestry and some
adopted
> anglo stage names and didn't say too much about it. (My grandfather went
to
> high school with a guy named Nathan Birnbaum who changed his name. Jolson
> changed his name too.)
Joel Fritz
JBW
so-called "wishlist") for "blues" on BET and see what comes up.
I'm glad you found blues there since over the years my hit-and-miss approach
has not yielded much. I'll get back to ya'll with what comes up...
Rgds...Jim
---------------------------------------------
jwe...@iadfw.net
jbw...@attbi.com
www.geocities.com/big_jim_wells
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Waltner" <waltner...@verizon.net>
To: <BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
Ron Weinstock
<< Having just got TIVO, I am going to set up a general search and record (the
so-called "wishlist") for "blues" on BET and see what comes up.
I'm glad you found blues there since over the years my hit-and-miss approach
has not yielded much. I'll get back to ya'll with what comes up...
Rgds...Jim >>
The Blues is on BET on Jazz, The Jazz Channel
JBW
Edwards is one "of the very last original bluesmen". He is GREATNESS but he
is not alone in being an "original bluesman".
We could have a whole thread here about who living are "original
bluesmen".
I'll start it off with a couple of obvious ones: Sammy Myers and Henry
Qualls and there are many, many more... And if you haven't seen the
pictures of (legally blind) Sam Myers bowling recently, you should check
them out on the bumpNgrind website!!! What a gas!
Rgds...Jim
---------------------------------------------
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jbw...@attbi.com
www.geocities.com/big_jim_wells
Barry Pickell
satellite would always say: "no information available". The show had a night
club setting. I have seen separate 1 hour shows with Luther Allison,
Gatemouth Brown, and Alvin Youngblood Heart. Alvin did his solo acoustic
thing.
I think they tried to do a separate channel just for jazz a couple years ago
and moved those shows there. I don't know if it is still on the air.
Joel Fritz
when they adjust to a new culture. My dad liked a rhetorical flourish and
was kind of militant about being Jewish. At least once--around 1940--he was
almost arrested for assault at a job interview.
I think the Jewish entertainers who changed their names were trying to make
a living. I think Oprah and a few other black entertainers who made it into
mainstream pop culture made the same sort of assimilationist choices. I
can't summon the energy to be judgemental about it. I keep asking myself
what I would have done in the same situation.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J Dewar" <rjd...@cyberus.ca>
To: <BLU...@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: NBC: Re: Re: why would BET forget the blues?
Regina Tillman
....it makes no sense
> whatsoever for BET to ignore something of such great import. Somebody needs
> to get their asses on the ball. Simple as that!
I appreciate many of the points being made within this thread... and try as I may to read through it all to see if a certain point was made, evidence is absent after about 20 messages (maybe a slight exageration) so I'll take the chance to say: ya'll know Viacom bought BET say about 2 years ago now...thus, if the emphasis is on what BET should do, it kind of scraps that thought. But even before then, the controlling owner had made it clear to "the community" that he was about the ka ching, ka ching (and as a consequence, made out like a bandit when the opportunity presented to be bought out.) Yeah, I think he still has some position with BET but understanding where he was coming from, from jump street, may clarify some of the BET awarding categories. Capitalists come is all shapes, sizes and colors... (and that's a start of a different thread so I'll quit that line of thought for now.)
BTW, interesting visuals presented by the description of New Orleans festival. Believing economics is a part of the picture, I must evaluate why I never see more than a handful of Black folk at the "free" local Blues Festival... "is the marketing geared to pull them in?" would be my next question, as well raised by someone previously on this thread (not sure if it got the proper consideration however.) Let me note that the location, in this case, is not an issue.
Thanks...
Regina M. TillmanThe Blueshift Group / Talent DivisionPO Box 5481Albany, NY 12205 USAp: 518.229.1548
e: BPG...@msn.com
Hear The Artists! http://www.cdbaby.com/BlueshiftGroup
---------------------------------
Oscar Jordan
>
> I think the Jewish entertainers who changed their
> names were trying to make
> a living. I think Oprah and a few other black
> entertainers who made it into
> mainstream pop culture made the same sort of
> assimilationist choices. I
> can't summon the energy to be judgemental about it.
> I keep asking myself
> what I would have done in the same situation.
I remember Oprah in Chicago way back when she first
took over the time slot for A.M. Chicago. I don't get
the assimilationist thing. She didn't change her
name.
Sure, the show had to be marketed a certain way in
order for it to be succesful to a wide audience but I
don't liken this to her assimilating culturally the
way you imply.
What's to assimilate into? She was already educated,
smart, and spoke well before her fame. Do Whites have
a monopoly on enunciation and correct english? Hell
no.
She's a smart educated woman who is black. She's
American. She can speak well and still be just as
Black as any share cropper from the deep south.
Imagine that!
She wasn't just let off the boat at Ellis Island,
released from the cotton field, or escaped from the
hood. Therefore what culture is she assimilating
into? She's already a part of the existing culture of
educated people who had an interest in television.
Lastly, why would a show that is marketed toward
Soccer Moms have any interest in doing a tribute to
the Blues or Honeyboy Edwards? What if Oprah doesn't
like Blues? Maybe she perfers ABBA. And if she does,
does that make her less Black? Hell no.
Just because she's Black doesn't mean she's required
to wave the flag and showcase all things African
American to suit others. Blacks are a diverse people
with varied interests just as Whites are.
Just a thought.
Oscar
PS: She has plenty of Black guests on her show as
well. They simply don't happen to be Bluesmen.
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George - Curtis J.
> fights have broken out over which singer or conductor
> is better, and you can take just about every theme
> that arises here about this or that aspect of the blues
> and find an exact equivalent in the opera world.
>
What are you talking about? THings like that never happen here!
;-)
CG
God's Angel
shepard can kiss my blues mans ass
you know that little dent above your lips i put that there when i put my
finger here and said shhhhhh!! (GABRIEL from the movie prophecy)
Michael Murphy
SO blues is a white thing now? FUCK THAT gimmi bb any day kenny wanna be
shepard can kiss my blues mans ass>>
Strange language for an Angel!
dog
Blue Stew
bait, poison...'trolling for suckers'...RESIST AND DELETE, RESIST AND
DELETE, RESIST AND DELETE! Mike
Fred Dabney
Yes, sometimes five minutes in a row go by without
someone getting into a fight over this or that...
By the way, there have even been killings by fans
of artists, not unlike the guy who did in the man
"Who insufficiently appreciated SRV" I mentioned
a few days ago.
Opera and blues are both music about passions,
loved by fans and played by artists who are themselves
passionate about it.
Maybe we need to start attracting opera fans to blues?
Fred D.
Tony Whetstone
>They used to air a show on regular BET TV called "BET On Jazz" My DSS
>satellite would always say: "no information available". The show had a
night
>club setting. I have seen separate 1 hour shows with Luther Allison,
>Gatemouth Brown, and Alvin Youngblood Heart. Alvin did his solo acoustic
>thing.>
>I think they tried to do a separate channel just for jazz a couple years
ago
>and moved those shows there. I don't know if it is still on the air.
Cox cable company has the jazz channel as part of their basic digital cable
service. I've had it for the last few months and have seen a surprising
amount of blues movies, videos and concerts, including the shows you
mention. The problem is, it seems to be a very poorly run channel. The
program listings rarely let you know in advance what's going to be on, and
when they do, they are often wrong. There are time slots which are labeled
"blues" and "jazz and blues" several times a week, but it seems like I'm
just as likely to catch the blues programming in other time slots. Some of
the offerings--like a Muddy Waters concert and an Albert King concert and a
documentary on the Chicago blues--seem to be shown all the time, while
others are shown rarely. The commercials often cut right into a performance
in mid-song! But what the hell, I've seen a ton of great music--blues, jazz,
and world--on the Jazz channel. It sure beats the hell out of those other
music channels.
BTW, the commercials can be a hoot, hope it doesn't say too much about the
blues and jazz audience to note that the ads are often for "college girls
gone wild" and penis enlargement pills.
Easyrider @ Webtv.Net
festivals in the south that have soul-blues, rock-blues, traditional
blues and other forms. Some are small festivals, like the ones in
Huntsville, Alabama and Florence, Alabama (the W.C Handy Festival), but
others, like the ones in Birmingham, Alabama and of course the ones In
Memphis are large festivals. And there are plenty of black folks at the
Down Home Blues Festival in Huntsville, Alabama. Purist warning--alot of
soul in the blues.
Bill Salmon
"Maybe we need to start attracting opera fans to
blues?"
While you might have been being facetious, it is
really not a bad idea.
Bill Salmon
Easyrider @ Webtv.Net
SELL. Some older black people are BIG blues fans, But they are NOT the
ones who BUY most of the CDs and tapes! If we had a new Jimi Hendrix or
someone like that, who would fire up the young people and who would
point them back to blues, BET would HAVE to listen and respond, Prince
and others have had the chance to do that, but did not, Eric Clapton
ALWAYS pointed back to his blues roots, It is SO sad that the famous
black performers will not do the same. Clapton has done it with albums
and interviews and in every way possible. Yet most black stars, many of
which owe their fame to guitar licks they took from black blues artists,
don`t show proper respect and try to promote the blues, like Clapton
does.
Oscar Jordan
wrote:
People like Robert Cray have always honored and
mentioned their heroes who were bluesmen pointing
backwards to those who influenced them. In terms of
African American "Pop Stars," the reason they don't
mention the bluesmen who influenced them is because
perhaps they weren't influenced by bluesmen.
You don't want them to lie do you?
Hendrix always mentioned his love for Howlin' Wolf,
Muddy Waters, and Albert King. They affected him
enough for him to be outspoken about them. I don't
see someone like Lenny Kravits doing the same because
perhaps Prince was the one who did for him.
Or perhaps some well known guitarist who was
influenced by Jimmy Page who was influenced by Hubert
Sumlin who was influenced by etc, etc.
We're a long way away from those bored Brits who
adopted Blues as a relgion to piss of their parents
and inspire creativity. A lot has happened since then
and it isn't necessarily blues based.
I promise that as an African American, if by some
twisted form of sheer luck I become a Pop Star, I'll
mention everyone who ever played the blues.
Especially Johnny Childs!
Oscar
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Fred Dabney
> blues>
> While you might have been being facetious, it is
> really not a bad idea.
Utterly serious. In both genres, it's getting the
fans to accept the other as serious music,
but once past the difference in styles, there
is a whole lot of commonality in the art.
Granted, I can't think of a good equivalent of
eighteenth century Bel Canto in blues, anyone
who admires "chops" in a vocalist should try
some on its own terms.
Fred D.