Does B.B. know about this?
Joe McGaha
·Artists agrees to promote this event on their website or myspace.com page.If artists does not have a myspace.com page then artists agrees to start one for free.URL:
·Artist agrees to promote and bring as many people as possible over the age of 21.Artist will sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500 (Cash Only) the night of the show in order to perform full set and understand if less come set may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can bring guest all ages as long as they are paid guest and as long as they enter the club before 10pm.
·All guests under 21 must purchase 2 drink tickets at the door for a total of $8 unless they are eating entrees.
Band members are obligated to inform their guest that in order to sit on the first floor their guest must each order food. Otherwise, their guest can sit on the third floor of this establishment.
The contrast between the terms above, and their mission statement on bbkingslive.com is pretty big:
Through the ideas and ideals of inclusivity over exclusivity, and ownership as appose to proletariat, a revolutionary concept has emerged to form the Club Venue product and philosophy. The idea is to combine the values of inclusivity with ownership in order to produce both a community that values its members and sees them as essential to the value of the community and individuals who value their community and see the value of their community as fundamental to their own individual value.
Ah, well – to take a great line from one of my favorite movies, “forget it Jake – it’s Chinatown”. In this case, “forget it guys, it’s UniversalCity”.
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Damon M. Ayala
been a joke for some time, but this is a new low. They should get the old Blue
Cafe booking agent, Vince Jordan, to get it on track.
Good Luck,
Damon
In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:00:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
No Name Available
Speaking of contracts..what contract forms do y'all use when issuing a
performance contract? Custom written? AF of M form? Other?
Thanks
In a message dated 1/5/2007 6:00:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
book...@barnburnersblues.com writes:
http://www.myspace.com/bostonmoejo
Mindy Giles
Cellar ? Right next door to the Blue Cafe, BTW. It was supposed to open in
October. Last time I was there ( late Nov.) it was still waaay under construction.
Cheers, Mindy
Ricky Stevens
Strike that clause and send the contract back. See what happens.
Ricky Stevens
Arkabutla, Mississippi
>From: Joe McGaha Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:59:21 +0000
>
>I just recently signed on to perform at B.B. King’s in Universal City,
>California, and they emailed me a contract (which is a standard practice).
>Check out the second term on the list!Pay to play has caused the downfall
>of the music scene in Hollywood, and now it looks like it’s even taking
>place in blues clubs:
>·Artist agrees to promote and bring as many people as possible over the
>age of 21.Artist will sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500 (Cash
>Only) the night of the show in order to perform full set and understand if
>less come set may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can bring guest
>all ages as long as they are paid guest and as long as they enter the club
>before 10pm.
_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
Damon M. Ayala
http://www.myspace.com/thecellarlbc
Best,
d
In a message dated 1/5/2007 4:02:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Ming...@aol.com writes:
Speaking of Vince, what is happening wth his new club in Long Beach, the
Cellar ? Right next door to the Blue Cafe, BTW. It was supposed to open in
October. Last time I was there ( late Nov.) it was still waaay under
construction.
Cheers, Mindy
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Jef Jaisun
>I just recently signed on to perform at B.B.
King’s in Universal City, California, and they
emailed me a contract (which is a standard
practice). Check out the second term on the list!
Pay to play has caused the downfall of the music
scene in Hollywood, and now it looks like it’s
even taking place in blues clubs:
>·Artists agrees to promote this event on their
website or myspace.com page.If artists does not
have a myspace.com page then artists agrees to start one for free.URL:
WTF?!? This is a joke, right?
>·Artist agrees to promote and bring as many
people as possible over the age of 21.Artist will
sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500
(Cash Only) the night of the show in order to
perform full set and understand if less come set
may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can
bring guest all ages as long as they are paid
guest and as long as they enter the club before 10pm.
They forgot:
* Artist will be sure to hand over the cash in a
plain brown wrapper, making certain all bills are
no larger than $20, are unmarked and
non-sequential. Exploding dye packets are not permitted.
* Artist agrees to have all bills black-light
pre-screened for traces of illegal Class I drug
residue, and to have any such contaminated bills
sanitized before handing them in to our pimp. Er, I mean, manager.
* Artist agrees that all guests who pay are not
really guests, but are paying customers. All the
same, artist agrees that this group constitutes a
special underclass, and will be treated with the appropriate scorn.
>·All guests under 21 must purchase 2 drink
tickets at the door for a total of $8 unless they are eating entrees.
* Artist agrees that, while the drink tickets
will not allow guests under 21 to purchase
alcohol, $4 is not excessive for a cup of drip
coffee, tap water or Classic Coke in a glass that
is 3/4 filled with ice cubes.
* Artist agrees that no drink tickets will be
required if the guests are eating entrees,
because the price of the entrees will be so
massively exorbitant that guests' wallets will be
bleeding red ink, and maybe some blood, too, at
the presentation of the final bill.
* Artist agrees that guests who don't tip well
after eating the routinely inferior entrees will
be subject to Category 2 bitch-slapping in the
washroom. Just because the food and service sucks
is no reason to leave the club with money still in your possession.
>Band members are obligated to inform their
guest that in order to sit on the first floor
their guest must each order food. Otherwise,
their guest can sit on the third floor of this establishment.
* Artist agrees guests may also sit on it and spin.
>The contrast between the terms above, and their
mission statement on bbkingslive.com is pretty big:
* Artist agrees, "So is my gat, m-----f-----!
Wanna hear its mission statement?"
>"Through the ideas and ideals of inclusivity
over exclusivity, and ownership as appose to
proletariat, a revolutionary concept has emerged
to form the Club Venue product and philosophy.
The idea is to combine the values of inclusivity
with ownership in order to produce both a
community that values its members and sees them
as essential to the value of the community and
individuals who value their community and see the
value of their community as fundamental to their own individual value."
"Appose to proletariat?" "Revolutionary concept?"
What is this, a blues club or 1917 Russia??? To
whomever wrote this upchuck of misspelled,
run-on, syntactically incoherent,
grammatically-challenged, self-serving pile of
grandiose bullshit: YOU'RE FIRED!!! You've got
three minutes to collect your bowl of World's
Worst Gumbo and get out! (See footnote 1.)
>Ah, well – to take a great line from one of my
favorite movies, “forget it Jake – it’s
Chinatown”. In this case, “forget it guys, it’s Universal City”.
To paraphrase a great line from one of my
favorite movies, "You handin' this contract to
me? You handin' this contract to me? You handin'
this contract to ME? Then who the hell else are
you handing... you handing it to ME??? Well I'm
the only one here. Who the f*** do you think
you're handing it to!?! Oh yeah? Huh? OK."
Not to mention, "Taking me to a place like this
is about as exciting as saying to me "Let's ______." (2)
You can still sign the contract, Joe, but first
you've got to ask yourself a question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya? :)
Your close friend and soon-to-be business partner,
Guido daRoachcrusher
Universal Shitty
(1. Members of the now-defunct Beale Street Blues
Society will no doubt recall the 1998 Mess Around
fiasco at B.B. King's on Beale. The club ran out
of everything -- food, drink, you name it. The
only thing I was able to get from the kitchen at
5pm was a bowl of "gumbo," which actually turned
out to be a bowl of grease with a few noodles in
it. Took me an hour to get it, too. So inedible
was it that I dubbed it the "World's Worst Bowl
of Gumbo." I have a photo of it, if anybody's
interested, but please don't view it immediately
before or after eating. I can't be responsible for what happens.
(2. All unexpurgated quotes available at
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/quotes, in
case you're wondering what the omitted words are. LOL!
Jonny Meister
clubs that enjoy very positive images.... no one wants to lose money -- and
most want to make it-- blues, unfortunately, loses often. I remember seeing
Big Jack Johnson some years ago at a club in Philadelphia. A decent-sized,
but not huge, crowd was there. The club people told me that the late night
show, with a local rock band, would bring in more than twice as many people
& the band was paid a quarter of what Big Jack was paid. It seems that
festivals are a better platform for blues than clubs these days. Bands that
are serious about club work go to great lengths to gather up their fans for
gigs-- to meet expectations like the ones in the contract described
here. -Jonny
>it Jake it’s Chinatown”. In this ccase, “forget it guys, it’s
Joe McGaha
play the show. Phew! The booking agent just let me know that the
"required" $500 in advance is optional. I guess it's like anything
else--look at the fine print, never pay sticker price, etc. :)
Thanks for all the input -- loved it!
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Blues Music List [mailto:BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe
McGaha
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:59 PM
To: BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Subject: Does B.B. know about this?
I just recently signed on to perform at B.B. King's in Universal City,
California, and they emailed me a contract (which is a standard practice).
Check out the second term on the list!Pay to play has caused the downfall of
the music scene in Hollywood, and now it looks like it's even taking place
in blues clubs:
.Artists agrees to promote this event on their website or myspace.com
page.If artists does not have a myspace.com page then artists agrees to
start one for free.URL:
.Artist agrees to promote and bring as many people as possible over the age
of 21.Artist will sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500 (Cash Only)
the night of the show in order to perform full set and understand if less
come set may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can bring guest all
ages as long as they are paid guest and as long as they enter the club
before 10pm.
.All guests under 21 must purchase 2 drink tickets at the door for a total
of $8 unless they are eating entrees.
Band members are obligated to inform their guest that in order to sit on the
first floor their guest must each order food. Otherwise, their guest can sit
on the third floor of this establishment.
The contrast between the terms above, and their mission statement on
bbkingslive.com is pretty big:
Through the ideas and ideals of inclusivity over exclusivity, and ownership
as appose to proletariat, a revolutionary concept has emerged to form the
Club Venue product and philosophy. The idea is to combine the values of
inclusivity with ownership in order to produce both a community that values
its members and sees them as essential to the value of the community and
individuals who value their community and see the value of their community
as fundamental to their own individual value.
Ah, well - to take a great line from one of my favorite movies, "forget it
Jake - it's Chinatown". In this case, "forget it guys, it's UniversalCity".
Ricky Stevens
Ricky Stevens
Arkabutla, Mississippi
_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
E Willett
George
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricky Stevens<mailto:delt...@hotmail.com>
To: BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG<mailto:BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
I nominate Jef Jaisun for the BMA for "Best Rant."
Ricky Stevens
Arkabutla, Mississippi
_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1<http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1>
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/<http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/>
Archives & web interface: http://lists.netspace.org/archives/blues-l.html<http://lists.netspace.org/archives/blues-l.html>
NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc. http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/>
To unsubscribe from BLUES-L, send an email with the message UNSUBSCRIBE BLUES-L to: list...@lists.netspace.org<mailto:list...@lists.netspace.org>
chefo...@aol.com
you had me at Shalom
-----Original Message-----
From: j...@jaisunphoto.com
To: BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Mindy Giles
You can bet that the person who wrote all that blather knows nothing about
blues, music, has no soul, guts, moxy, intestinal fortitude and drives a black
Jetta.
What Would B.B. do ???
Cheers, Mindy
Deja Blues
about your band. But...
I'm guessing you weren't hired as the headliner? That your band is opening
on a weekend night? That you aren't signed with a record label?
This wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a contract of this kind in
order for a band to "get their foot in the door".
It's a way for talent buyers to "weed out" bands that don't believe in
themselves, or aren't willing to hussle and do some self-promotion.
Every weekend warrior blues band would love to perform at BB Kings. So how
do talent buyers pick and choose? If you don't believe in yourself, then
why should they believe in you?
I'd take it as a compliment that they eventually waved the ticket selling
from the contract.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
11:11 AM
T-Roy
disagree with this position. Been there-done that. Here's the deal... Bands
are in the business of making music - not marketing plans or whoring out
their friends and family. That's what marketers and promoters and club
owners are for. Getting the music rehearsed and right is hard enough. It's
on the club to find and promote the right "content" for their club that will
draw people. This is what "auditions" including interviewing the act are
for.
Naturally, it will only help everyone involved if the band DOES do some
self-promo but to make it a requisite will weed out some potentially great
bands that the owner could make hay with. What they end up with is a bunch
of teenagers or middle-aged hacks that have a list of folks not interested
in the music or the club, and unlikely to come back again as they will go
out and support their buddies in the band a time or two. If the club hires
bad bands who don't draw or fail to resonate with the audience, that's on
them.
You're essentially asking a band to do something that is not necessarily in
their skill set. In other words... setting the band and the club up for
failure in the long run. It's also a lazy way to get people in the door that
fails to build any sort of brand equity and customer engagement for the
club.
No disrespect intended but we musicians and promoters have seen this tactic
fail time and again.
T-Roy
.Artists agrees to promote this event on their website or myspace.com
page.If artists does not have a myspace.com page then artists agrees to
start one for free.URL:
.Artist agrees to promote and bring as many people as possible over the age
of 21.Artist will sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500 (Cash Only)
the night of the show in order to perform full set and understand if less
come set may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can bring guest all
ages as long as they are paid guest and as long as they enter the club
before 10pm.
.All guests under 21 must purchase 2 drink tickets at the door for a total
of $8 unless they are eating entrees.
Band members are obligated to inform their guest that in order to sit on the
first floor their guest must each order food. Otherwise, their guest can sit
on the third floor of this establishment.
The contrast between the terms above, and their mission statement on
bbkingslive.com is pretty big:
Through the ideas and ideals of inclusivity over exclusivity, and ownership
as appose to proletariat, a revolutionary concept has emerged to form the
Club Venue product and philosophy. The idea is to combine the values of
inclusivity with ownership in order to produce both a community that values
its members and sees them as essential to the value of the community and
individuals who value their community and see the value of their community
as fundamental to their own individual value.
Ah, well - to take a great line from one of my favorite movies, "forget it
Jake - it's Chinatown". In this case, "forget it guys, it's UniversalCity".
~Patty Keyes~
a bunch of people (if any) in that town to bring to the gig.
~Patty~
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Wolfman
musician, painter or writer, and art disseminator, e.g. night club, art
gallery or publisher, depend on who needs whom. If Eric Clapton were
going to play B.B. King's, the club would be generously paying Clapton.
If Eric SMITH were going to play B.B. King's, Smith would be paying the
club for the exposure, one way or another, even though he might get a
nominal pay cheque.
I don't think this rule is limited to Hollywood.
So, in your case, Joe McGaha, I suspect the club has decided, rightly or
wrongly, that you need them more than they need you. They probably have
a different contract for the well known artists bringing in the paying
and drinking customers. If you prove them wrong, (i.e. fill the house
every night with paying customers, all heavy drinkers) you too will get
that other contract for your return engagement.
What follows is speculation. B.B. King probably rented out his name to
this club and the others bearing his name. I don't blame him. He's
paid enough dues (playing the chitlin circuit) to deserve whatever he
makes, any way he can, with his current fame. The owners of the clubs
don't care about B.B. King, or the blues. They care about money.
Sorry if I sound cynical. Blues music, music in general, is one thing;
the music business, including night clubs, is another. There are a few
club owners who do it for the love of music, but they are the exception,
not the rule.
The dirty little secret is that blues musicians (the ones I know,
anyways) would play for free, because it gives them so much joy! (Don't
tell the night club owners). That said, enjoy the gig!
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:59:21 +0000, "Joe McGaha"
<book...@barnburnersblues.com> said:
> I just recently signed on to perform at B.B. King’s in Universal City,
> California, and they emailed me a contract (which is a standard
> practice). Check out the second term on the list!Pay to play has caused
> the downfall of the music scene in Hollywood, and now it looks like it’s
> even taking place in blues clubs:
>
> 嫂rtists agrees to promote this event on their website or myspace.com
> page.If artists does not have a myspace.com page then artists agrees to
> start one for free.URL:
> 嫂rtist agrees to promote and bring as many people as possible over the
> age of 21.Artist will sell a minimum of 50 tickets and turn in $500 (Cash
> Only) the night of the show in order to perform full set and understand
> if less come set may be lessened or even canceled.Artist/Band can bring
> guest all ages as long as they are paid guest and as long as they enter
> the club before 10pm.
> 嫂ll guests under 21 must purchase 2 drink tickets at the door for a
> total of $8 unless they are eating entrees.
> Band members are obligated to inform their guest that in order to sit on
> the first floor their guest must each order food. Otherwise, their guest
> can sit on the third floor of this establishment.
>
> The contrast between the terms above, and their mission statement on
> bbkingslive.com is pretty big:
> Through the ideas and ideals of inclusivity over exclusivity, and
> ownership as appose to proletariat, a revolutionary concept has emerged
> to form the Club Venue product and philosophy. The idea is to combine the
> values of inclusivity with ownership in order to produce both a community
> that values its members and sees them as essential to the value of the
> community and individuals who value their community and see the value of
> their community as fundamental to their own individual value.
>
> Ah, well – to take a great line from one of my favorite movies, “forget
> it Jake – it’s Chinatown”. In this case, “forget it guys, it’s
> UniversalCity”.
>
>
>
> Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
> Archives & web interface: http://lists.netspace.org/archives/blues-l.html
> NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.
> http://www.lsoft.com
> To unsubscribe from BLUES-L, send an email with the message UNSUBSCRIBE
> BLUES-L to: list...@lists.netspace.org
--
http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html
Damon M. Ayala
of what's happening in the blues scene? You obviously don't know anything
about BB's in Universal City. What they are doing is gouging because they KNOW
people want to play there. These guys do talent buying as a side project to
waiting tables and they rotate buyers all the time there. Hell, I don't blame
the buyers for trying to make money the way they do. What else are they gonna
do... research what's out there and what other successful blues clubs are
doing? Naahhhh. Too much work. It's better to just ask the bands to pay.
By the way, check this crap out to get an idea:
http://www.inthemarketplace.com/cgi-bin/Calcium-3.0?CalendarName=BB_Kings_Blue
s_Club_Los_Angeles&Op=ShowIt
Damon
In a message dated 1/6/2007 6:46:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,
deja...@tampabay.rr.com writes:
Every weekend warrior blues band would love to perform at BB Kings. So how
do talent buyers pick and choose? If you don't believe in yourself, then
why should they believe in you?
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Damon M. Ayala
Good job.
D
In a message dated 1/6/2007 10:57:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
T-Roy
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Joe McGaha
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Blues Music List [mailto:BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG] On Behalf Of
Ricky Stevens
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 5:48 PM
To: BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
I nominate Jef Jaisun for the BMA for "Best Rant."
Ricky Stevens
Arkabutla, Mississippi
_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Walter Potter
> Well, it looks like they're going to make an exception, so we're going to
> play the show. Phew! The booking agent just let me know that the
> "required" $500 in advance is optional. I guess it's like anything
> else--look at the fine print, never pay sticker price, etc. :)
You know, it looks like they are trying to take a page from the jam band
business model where it is not unusual for a band to be "paid" either
partially or in full in tickets they sell to their fans. But what works
for the jam band crowd doesn't necessarily translate to the blues crowd.
I really don't see many people hitting the road to follow their favorite
blues band for a few months of the year.
There is a difference between what they are doing and the Jam band thing
though. With the jam band business model, if you don't sell tickets you
don't get paid as much, with the BB King contract, if you don't sell
tickets you pay them. That sucks.
--
maxdog
Keep on keepin' on ...
Jef Jaisun
they roll around for next year, hopefully you'll all have forgotten this. :)
Btw, *Author agrees to pay the Blues Foundation reparations in the
unlikely event author is nominated for anything other than 2007/8
Crank of the Week.
Jef
On 6 Jan 2007 12:36:22 -0800, book...@BURNINGBLUES.COM (Joe McGaha) wrote:
>Absolutely! He had me rollin'! :)
>
>Joe
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>I nominate Jef Jaisun for the BMA for "Best Rant."
>
>Ricky Stevens
>Arkabutla, Mississippi
>
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Deja Blues
----- Original Message -----
From: DME4...@aol.com
To: deja...@tampabay.rr.com ; BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
How about these talent buyers do their job and get their finger on the pulse of what's happening in the blues scene? You obviously don't know anything about BB's in Universal City. What they are doing is gouging because they KNOW people want to play there. These guys do talent buying as a side project to waiting tables and they rotate buyers all the time there. Hell, I don't blame the buyers for trying to make money the way they do. What else are they gonna do... research what's out there and what other successful blues clubs are doing? Naahhhh. Too much work. It's better to just ask the bands to pay.
By the way, check this crap out to get an idea:
http://www.inthemarketplace.com/cgi-bin/Calcium-3.0?CalendarName=BB_Kings_Blues_Club_Los_Angeles&Op=ShowIt
Damon
In a message dated 1/6/2007 6:46:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, deja...@tampabay.rr.com writes:
Every weekend warrior blues band would love to perform at BB Kings. So how
do talent buyers pick and choose? If you don't believe in yourself, then
why should they believe in you?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Deja Blues
off.... but here goes.
Bands are in the business to make venues/promoters money. If a venue could
hire an organ grinder and a monkey (or these days karoke) and make more
money with them than a band then that's what they will do.
They will only hire any band if they think they can make more money with
live music than something else. And they will only hire a specific band, if
they think that band will make them more money than any other band that's
available that night.
The corralary to this statement, is that bands aren't there for themselves,
they are there for their audience. If the audience thinks it's too
loud...then it's too loud. It's the venue/promoters job to know what their
audience will like. And if the promoter is wrong, then it's their risk.
Another corralary is that once a band starts accepting money for their
performances, they are in the music business.....that's 80% business, and
20% music. If a band doesn't want to deal with the
business/promotion/booking side of the business then they should hire
themselves a manager/publicist/agent.
If they can't afford those....then they better do it themselves. If they
won't do it themselves, then I guess they didn't want to be in the music
business badly enough. Somebody less talented, and less entertaining will
coming along and get booked because they were willing to do the work.
It's an endurance test. It takes years and years to become an overnight
sensation.
Okay....enough rant....don't want to take away Jef's title.
Ricky Stevens
>From: Deja Blues
>
>They will only hire any band if they think they can make more money with
>live music than something else. And they will only hire a specific band,
>if they think that band will make them more money than any other band
>that's available that night.
>
And damon wrote:
>What they are doing is gouging because they KNOW people want to play there.
>These guys do talent buying as a side project to waiting tables and they
>rotate buyers all the time there.
You want art go look in a museum. They've got walls and walls full of art
by guys who died broke.
The reality of the situation is that the vast majority of financially
successful clubs hire bands to attract paying customers. It's not about
"ART." It's not about "TALENT" It's about attracting the most suckers who
are willing to leave their money in the club.
Period.
Bands need to understand reality of being a working musician, not some
fantasy of being capital-A "Artists." If the promoters and talent buyers
can bring in someone with a solid fan base then that's what they will do.
BB King can command a higher fee than just about any other blues player
alive. Why? Because he's better? Nope, because he will attract more
paying customers. Marvin Sease gets paid more than Pinetop Perkins for a
performance. Is Marvin a better musician? Who cares-he brings more dollars
through the door.
Live commercial performance is a business. It's not about quality of work,
it's about bringing in the most dollars for the least investment.
Ricky Stevens
Arkabutla, Mississippi
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Walter Potter
> Again, my apoloies in advance....cause I'm about to really piss some
> people off.... but here goes.
>
> Bands are in the business to make venues/promoters money. If a venue
> could hire an organ grinder and a monkey (or these days karoke) and make
> more money with them than a band then that's what they will do.
I think this is a bit too sweeping an accusation. While I agree that
many if not most venues and promoters are only interested in the bottom
line, I do think that there are many on that side of the business who
are interested in the music primarily. But even those are in "business"
and may have to make some concessions in order to keep the their
business afloat. That may translate into hiring some more rocked up or
guitar-hero style acts from time to time to help pay for the stuff they
like.
BTW, I just checked their calendar for January and like you I have no
idea who any of those acts are. I certainly wouldn't be interested in
going to the club.
--
maxdog
Keep on keepin' on ...
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
T-Roy
businessman and understand your arguments. However, I believe your initial
premise that "Bands are in the business to make venues/promoters money" is
flawed. Bands are not necessarily in business...period. Bands are in the
business of making art. If their art resonates with audiences, people will
buy stuff (cover charges included) and club owners will recognize that
people dig it and make the effort to "stock it on their shelves" so to
speak.
Think of a (blues) club as an art gallery hanging someone's work in their
store. They don't make the artist pay up front. No, they go out and find
artists they believe fit into their defined vertical market segment and
negotiate a wholesale or consigned price with the artist. It is then up to
the gallery owner to come up with a retail price from which they can realize
a profit. It's a tough gig to be sure! Now of course it's in the artist's
best interest to invite his/her peeps down to the gallery for the opening to
make a good showing, but if they've not kept a up-to-date fan-base list,
that shouldn't preclude the owner from hiring them if they've done their
homework and believe they'll sell.
I know this could turn into a circular argument, but bottom line is that as
long as bands (artists) continue to give into the unreasonable demands of
shyster club owners, the market will do what it does best and in the end the
music and it's audience will lose out. A perfect example is that calendar at
the L.A. BB King's. What a shame!
Respectfully,
Chefo...@aol.com
business isn't the only place you see it. In the old days fighters may pay
the promoter to get a fight that he could use to get a title fight or chance at
being a "contender". Even in the food business i new dinning room managers
that made wait persons pay to get on the schedule and get good sections etc.
It is "dog eat dog" out there folks.
chefo
gtr...@prodigy.net
know are the only one that most likely Can Afford to do So.I Never heard Of
a Righous Blues Band Paying To Play. Of top of my head. Far as I'm concerned
if I'm going to be Broke I might As well stay At home.
Guitar Mac.
"BLUES BAND LEADER OF THE YEAR"
http://www.centralvalleybluesfestival.com/guitarmac.htm
http://www.guitarmac.com
http://www.myspace.com/guitarmac
http://www.myspace.com/guitarmac1
http://www.soundclick.com/guitarmac
----- Original Message -----
From: <Chefo...@aol.com>
To: <BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
Damon M. Ayala
HA! You don't need to go! They get bands to pay them to play! They get
theirs anyway!
Damon
In a message dated 1/6/2007 4:13:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
maxdog-...@COMCAST.NET writes:
BTW, I just checked their calendar for January and like you I have no
idea who any of those acts are. I certainly wouldn't be interested in
going to the club.
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
No Name Available
seen multiple generations of this:
1. When a musician pays to play, or plays for free, it's called a "Showcase"
, "Promotional Event", or "Benefit" and should be billed as such. There's
nothing wrong with doing this if everyone makes it clear that this is what
is going on, and it can be helpful for inexperienced musicians.
2. All other gigs should be straightforward -- the musician plays and gets
paid a certain amount -- preferrably a fee rather than a percentage of door
or bar. If you cannot find a place that will pay you at least a nominal fee,
then you should either improve what you do or re-evaluate your desire to be
a musician.
3. Musicians who pay to play under any circumstances other than Item #1 do a
disservice to all musicians because they perpetuate this kind of cynical
treatment.
4. In my experience the venues that demand "pay to play" from their acts
generally end up going out of business after a while because the quality of
music is so poor. And their lighting usually has a sickly red tinge.
Terry Odor
music. I was talking to a club owner the other night, he's fairly new
having just
opened in 2006, and he was asking me about other performers he should have
in his club. After I made a few suggestions ... people I know that draw
well in
Portland, and he started ranting ... "That's delta blues crap, they just sit
there
and play slide guitar all night, it's boring as hell and I'm not having it
in my club!"
Right about then we must have noticed how good the food was, since we were
stuffing it in our mouths quickly!
Terry
_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Blue Stew
act called "Sticky Fingers" which is a Rolling Stones look/sound alike band.
Think about it; an American blues band opening for a band that imitates
a British Rock band that has made more money, and got more famous than
any 'real' blues artist in history.
I think most Americans these days prefer their Blues a bit watered down,
on the rocks with a Coke back, a lemon twist and a lick of salt to
sweeten the taste.
mike
Blue Stew
"...opening for a band that imitates a British Rock band that has made
more money (covering Blues material), and got more famous than any
Blue Stew
me paying them for the privilege of washing their dirty dishes, I wised
up and put an end to it. I told 'em flat out; "I'll wash your dishes
for free but I won't be paying to do it any longer". They took my
offer. Hey, I aint as stoopid as I look!
mike
Blue Stew
too young to grow facial hair who's knarliest gig was at Kenny's Dad's
Keg party last Halloween. They got sssooo wasted.
You can count on them to bring in their girlfriends with fake IDs and
big brother's college buddies to spill a few brews.
Hell, the the bar manager, who also hires the entertainment is usually a
21 yr old waitress that got promoted and they really don't know BB King
From Martin Luther King.
The last time I was in BB King's Hollywood, I heard a band that quite
literally played one long, loud note for 20 minutes! I'm serious. This
quartet of 16 year old boys with their back to the audience all hammered
out the same note in quarter notes for so long that I had to stick
around to see the finale. I thought, maybe someone, a singer or
something is gonna jump on stage, on fire and start the 'real' show. Nope.
The slow uphill crescendo just mercifully ended. I was the only one
that applauded making the band think that I was the only one in the room
with good taste. Boy, I fooled them!
mike
Deja Blues wrote:
> I did not recognize a single band name on their January rooster. Not one...sad.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DME4...@aol.com
> To: deja...@tampabay.rr.com ; BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
>
>
> How about these talent buyers do their job and get their finger on the pulse of what's happening in the blues scene? You obviously don't know anything about BB's in Universal City. What they are doing is gouging because they KNOW people want to play there. These guys do talent buying as a side project to waiting tables and they rotate buyers all the time there. Hell, I don't blame the buyers for trying to make money the way they do. What else are they gonna do... research what's out there and what other successful blues clubs are doing? Naahhhh. Too much work. It's better to just ask the bands to pay.
>
> By the way, check this crap out to get an idea:
> http://www.inthemarketplace.com/cgi-bin/Calcium-3.0?CalendarName=BB_Kings_Blues_Club_Los_Angeles&Op=ShowIt
>
>
> Damon
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/6/2007 6:46:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, deja...@tampabay.rr.com writes:
> Every weekend warrior blues band would love to perform at BB Kings. So how
> do talent buyers pick and choose? If you don't believe in yourself, then
> why should they believe in you?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Blues-L web site: http://www.netspace.org/~blues-l/
Leonard Watkins
Eveything is art from a chef to a construction worker, they get paid for
thier 'art' and not asked to pay to share it.
Music is not my 'living' so I can be picky - club gigs can be
frustrating,damn near demoralizng & usually not worth my time. I am
certianly not going to pay to play or guarantee anything other than a
professional attitude (on time, sober..etc)
I love 'entertaining' I could almost be satisfied playing at home but love
the entertainment part (ie: working the audience) of performing.
I have ran into situations with others that are similar to 'pay to play -
was worded as venue rental or something like that'.
I said OK then do we get the clubs beverage/food profit (or a large %) for
the evening, Of course that didn't fly.
I really don't see how you folks that are full time musicians put up with
the BS that goes along with making a living playing music but I sure am
thankful that you do.
LW
Sally Stevens
well. It is not unique to blues, music, art, or academics. Many college
professors now inform their students of the recent increase of companies
manuvering to 'devalue' the knowledge indicated by college degrees. These
tactics are essential to increasing profits.....and as the knowledge economy
and the cultural economy expands we can expect to see more and more of
this......either get used to it and resign yourself to ever lower pay scales or
start organizing with your peers toward developing counter tactics.
Sally
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Stan Erhart
I did the pay to play thing one night at Sally's Stage in the Chicago burbs
in the early 80's. At the time, it was considered a cool venue and we
wanted to play there. A reasonable amount of friends paid to get in, but
the club said we were a $100 short in ticket sales. All of us were broke
enough to worry about the price of guitar strings, so we were relieved when
the club relented on our "debt". But it was a lesson learned. I don't
mind playing a freebie once in awhile if the exposure is right, but the
backup band still needs to get paid and I'm wary of deals that could put me
in the red.
On the other side of the coin are bands that ask more than they're able to
deliver in business. Struggling clubs can use a break, too. We want them
to stay solvent and keep providing a venue for the blues community. As
long as everyone is honest, I like incentive plans. A reasonable guarantee
plus a percentage of the door or the bar lowers the risk for everyone while
providing a reason for the band and the club to promote the gig.
Stan
Blue Stew
<ma...@bluestew.co
m> To
Sent by: Blues BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Music List cc
<BLU...@LISTS.NE
TSPACE.ORG> Subject
Re: Does B.B. know about this?
01/07/2007 12:29
AM
Please respond to
Blue Stew
<ma...@bluestew.co
m>
chefo...@aol.com
good for you Mike, standing up to them chumps and all...good show!!
-----Original Message-----
From: ma...@bluestew.com
To: BLU...@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG
Sent: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: Does B.B. know about this?
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chefo...@aol.com
Just heard it...knocked me out of my whitey tighties...okay, maybe my grungy undies
chefie
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chefo...@aol.com
I did photography for a local Rock Band here at a convention at the Arlington Hotel for folks from around the country that put county fairs together. This band paid $800 to perform (audition) for this crowd of farmers in overalls. The band did get their money back though on the grounds that the sound man screwed up the sound on their set so bad that they figured it ruined their chances for getting a gig out of the deal. As the singer "Sally" told me later, "Most people don't realize the sound is bad, the just hear the band and say, 'man they suck'".
chefo
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