...but that flake? >:(
steveb
>
> "...music is a fundamentally human endeavor, and that the term music has
> no meaning whatsoever absent of the human ability to interpret it."
>
>......It's interesting that our conversation
>was born out of discussion of Native American music, as many Native American
>cultures did (do?) regard music as an entity independent of the (collective)
>musician's self. steveb, help me out here - i'm slinging all this crap
>second-hand from the prog-rock crowd. :)
>
hmmmmm...music independent of the collective musician's self. I'm scratching
my head a bit on that one...and it's nothing to do with head and shoulders.
Perhaps it's the placement of the possessive apostrophe...could you mean
the collective musicians' self? Nah. Still a headscratcher...I'm getting
flakes allover the keyboard. Perhaps it's because I'm ignorant of the
"prog-rock" crowd. Is that progressive rock? If so, I somehow have to
make a connection between progressive rock and music as an independent
entity. Music as an icon to itself also poses problems for me. Let me
take it one at a time and try to include some of the excellent comments
made by Marc & other allmusicbrethrensisters on this topic...
Music made by Native Americans to express the experience of life...
That music is heard by their children...
The children, feeling life themselves, channel their experiences
thru the funnel provided by example.
Yup...I'd have to agree that there is some external to internal there.
Yet, it's the internal that inspired the external which in turn instilled
a mode of expression...not quite a chicken egg problem, but still
an interesting sociologic vs genetic discussion.
"Somewhere Deep in the Heartland of a Continent"
I feel...I need to express...*I look around and see a hollow log & a dead
cat floating in the marsh...voila, a viola*
Someone hears my expression.
they tell someone about it
that someone comes to me and waits patiently by the fire until I feel the
need to express and reach for my hollow log and catgut.
Tears come to their eyes for I have expressed something they too have felt
They leave my fire and return to their own, telling the story of my viola;
After they tell the story, someone at their fire feels the need to
express *they look around, see a hollow log and a stick,pick them
up and quietly depart for my fire, where they sit and wait until I
feel the need to express and reach for my viola* Without having to
ask, they join in.
Two campfires away, Schmuckbuffalo hears us, comes to our campfire and
tells us he knows of a tribe many moons away that needs to hear our
music because they have no arms and cannot beat logs or pluck violas.
We do not want to leave our fire, but Schmuckboffabuffalo offers us
sixteen ears of corn. Winter is coming on, and we've been so busy
strumming and tapping that we did not plant, so we agree to accompany
Schmuckboffabuffalo to the far away tribe. When we arrive, SBB (or
Schmuckboffabuffalo)talks to the chief and tells him that we will play
our music for 32 ears of corn. The chief agrees, and after SBB stuffs
sixteen ears of corn into his loincloth, he comes to us and says it is
time for us to play for the tribe. But we cannot, for we do not feel
the need to express. SBB sneaks away with all the corn, and the angry
but armless tribe stomps us to death...
In the process of stomping, the armless tribe notice a pattern to their feet,
and learn to dance their feelings, and for generations, when they feel
anger, they dance the stolen corn dance, until SBB's great grandson
persuades the tribe to record for Atlantic by dancing their dance on
a hollow drum.
People in Atlantis hear the stolen corn Dance. Jerry L writes a review of
the CD, calling it "exciting primitivism, reminiscent of Stravinsky et
Bartok, but with a complexity matched only by Wagner and Ives."
Metallica hears the CD, and incorporates it into their latest CD, and that
recording is so successful that it makes number one on Cyndi's list,
replacing Duran Duran.
Later, much later, my great grandson sits on his pony on a New Mexico
bluff, calmly staring out over the expanse of the Los Alamos desert.
He and his best friend, Chief Preston, speak not ... until a huge
mushroom cloud appears on the horizon. Chief Preston turns to my
great grandson and sighs. "I couldn't have said that any better
myself," he says, and mygreat grandson nods.
steveb
Marc Benigni
In his slickly titled post, Brian calls me a flake! Aw, that's nothin'. Tim
Johnson just sent me personal mail and called me a Godless Communist! :)
This is getting interesting...
Anyway, Brian, I wasn't trying to be abrasive with the dandruff-oriented
title (jeez, did I touch a nerve or something? lighten up, man - i'm
scratchin' my head too) just having fun with words. And I do credit you for
the preceeding the following statement with "it seems to me that..."
"...music is a fundamentally human endeavor, and that the term music has
no meaning whatsoever absent of the human ability to interpret it."
I'm sure it seems that way to most people. (And I don't believe we'll ever
be able to pin it down as T/F.) But it's interesting that our conversation
was born out of discussion of Native American music, as many Native American
cultures did (do?) regard music as an entity independent of the (collective)
musician's self. steveb, help me out here - i'm slinging all this crap
second-hand from the prog-rock crowd. :)
But, re: my lucid statements, "I have no comment" reads like a comment. Is
this agreement, disagreement, or are you still torqued about the
Head&Shoulders thing?