[STOCKPHOTO] Just wondering
Clarence Walker
around the world. Why is it that there is no international stock photography
association that transcends issues such as RF, RP, RM, direct marketing or
ANY of the other issues such as time in the industry, editorial or
commercial, agency served or whatever differences there may be or have been?
Why can't stock photographers get past the differences and work on issues
that are important to us all, no matter who we are or where we come from? It
would seem that through working on working together there could be a common
meeting ground that could provide training, seminars, updates, insurance,
industry representation, communications, and so very much more. The needs
that could serve to build better voice and representation are far greater
than the differences that separate us. Sure there are other photo industry
associations, but there is no totally inclusive STOCK INDUSTRY association
that will help us to prepare and position our craft and serve us all as we
move forward. Just a silly thought?
Clarence W. Walker
http://www.creativeexpressiononline.com
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Joseph Pobereskin
> Why is it that there is no international stock photography
> association that transcends issues such as RF, RP, RM, direct
> marketing....
My friends and I were wondering the same thing a few years ago. We founded SAA, StockArtistsAlliance... http://www.stockartistsalliance.org
Click & join!!
Joe Pobereskin
===============================================
Joseph Pobereskin Photography
Maplewood, New Jersey USA
+1 (973) 313-0799 http://www.pobereskin.com
Member ASMP - http://www.asmp.org
Member SAA - http://www.stockartists.com
Clarence Walker
My friends and I have recognized the need and benefits of an INTERNATIONAL
PROFESSIONAL TRADE ASSOCIATION that represents ALL who are interested in
building an organization representing stock photographers for the future
that will address the needs of the whole body of stock photographers,
whether rookie, newcomer or seasoned pro, RF, direct, RM or any other
acronyms that may come, film or digital, commercial/advertising or editorial
where all are valued and different ideas encouraged.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StockImagery/?yguid=216656402
Clarence W. Walker
Creative Expression Photography
http://www.creativeexpressiononline.com
Clarence Walker
Clarence W. Walker
http://www.creativeexpressiononline.com
Joseph Pobereskin
> My friends and I have recognized the need and benefits of an
> INTERNATIONAL
> PROFESSIONAL TRADE ASSOCIATION.....
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StockImagery/?yguid=216656402
Clarence,
I hate to bust your bubble, but that is NOT a trade organization,
it's simply an e-mail forum. SAA *is* a TRADE ORGANIZATION. I know
this because **I personally wrote and signed the check** that paid
the attorney who got SAA certified with the IRS as a 501(c)3 Not-For-
Profit Mutual Benefit Organization.
Any questions?
Joe Pobereskin
Founding Member, Stock Artists Alliance
======================================================================
Joseph Pobereskin Photography http://www.pobereskin.com
Maplewood, New Jersey USA
+1 (973) 313-0799
Member ASMP - http://www.asmp.org
jos...@pobereskin.com Member SAA - http://www.stockartists.com
======================================================================
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Clarence Walker
No bubble burst or doors closed.
Personally, I don't understand why you would feel the need to make such a
comparison or whatever you may be attempting.
SAA and ISIA are not competitors and both stand on their own merits,
professionally and ethically. Any new initiative has to start somewhere,
just as SAA and others did.
Something in which all of you may well have an interest.
http://www.stockphototalk.com/phototalk/2005/10/stockimagery_ne.html
We have already received interest in StockImagery and the International
Stock Imagery Association from news organizations and individuals from all
corners of the world. For the record, neither the forum nor ISIA has any
interests other than that which is best for all stock photographers. We are
in no way in competition with other forums or associations, nor will our
ethics and professional standards allow disparagement in any way. It is our
greatest hope that through all working together with the broader community
of the imagery industry that we can all join together as one in seeking to
assure communications and services of a positive and beneficial nature.
The imagery industry is huge, well into the billions of dollars. Through
seeking to consider new paradigms, a forum for communications, and the
creation of a broad range of offerings to support individual, business, and
industry development, perhaps we can begin to view the industry in a new
light, namely all consumers of photographic services and products.
Traditionally, we may have focused on distributors, and agencies or upon the
various licensing models. However, the actual market for imagery in the
U.S., North and South America, Africa, Europe, the Middle East, and among
developing nations is considerably larger than anything represented today.
Too, the market for image producers is considerably greater than just the
numbers represented by even the mega-distributors, and this even before
considering alternative channels of income production.
One point is certainly clear and that is that the markets and channels of
distribution of today will not remain stagnant and unchanging.
There are undoubtedly thousands of us around the world. Together, we CAN
make a difference.
Clarence W. Walker
Creative Expression Photography
http://www.creativeexpressiononline.com
Chris Elsdale
wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> No bubble burst or doors closed.
>
> Personally, I don't understand why you would feel the need to make such a
> comparison or whatever you may be attempting.
>
> SAA and ISIA are not competitors and both stand on their own merits,
> professionally and ethically. Any new initiative has to start somewhere,
> just as SAA and others did.
Then perhaps Clarence an accurate description of your new venture at this time would be
a forum with 38 members.
You haven't yet responded to Joe's assertion that your new group isn't a 'Trade'
organisation just a forum. You've gone round the houses once or twice but failed to give a
reply to his point.
An organisation needs a structure not a single moderator run forum.
It's all rather a big ego trip isn't it?
Chris Elsdale
Joseph Pobereskin
On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:05 PM, Chris Elsdale wrote:
> Then perhaps Clarence an accurate description of your new venture
> at this time would be
> a forum with 38 members.
>
> You haven't yet responded to Joe's assertion that your new group
> isn't a 'Trade'
> organisation just a forum. You've gone round the houses once or
> twice but failed to give a
> reply to his point.
>
> An organisation needs a structure not a single moderator run forum.
>
> It's all rather a big ego trip isn't it?
Chris,
A little perspective here, if you please...
Clarence is a photographer with, at best, a small history of stock
licenses. If you visit his web site you will note the low-level of
imagery and confirm that he's on the periphery of the stock
industry... albeit with high hopes. That's all well and good,
everyone has to start somewhere. I don't recall being a top-notch
photographer right out of the gate myself... I had to learn, hone my
craft and grow into the business as I suspect many of us have had to do.
Clarence joined SAA but, noting the bias against Royalty Free
providers attempted to redirect SAA's agenda to a more inclusive one,
an agenda that respects RF and its producers as equals to be embraced
by the Rights Managed community. He was unsuccessful in this regard
and in response he abruptly resigned his membership in SAA and has
established a forum for like-minded newbies who simply don't
understand why those of us who have been around the block a few
times, and wish to continue to prosper in this industry, have a
marked distaste for the RF model.
The bottom line here though is not that SAA (and its members) are
right in rejecting RF and he's wrong to embrace it... or vice
versa... but that ISIA is simply *NOT a trade association* of any
kind, rather as you observe, it's a forum with 38 members and nothing
more... at the moment, at least, ISIA is not what he represents it to
be.
Simply stated: ISIA is *not a peer* of SAA's.
Joe Pobereskin
======================================================================
Joseph Pobereskin Photography http://www.pobereskin.com
Maplewood, New Jersey USA
+1 (973) 313-0799
Member ASMP - http://www.asmp.org
jos...@pobereskin.com Member SAA - http://www.stockartists.com
======================================================================
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Chuck Goodenough
I would say, based on what Joe is saying, that Clarence saw a niche
where SAA might be excluding a group he felt needs servicing.
He's exhibiting the entrepreneurial spirit most of us have and a need
for there to be one group for all the stock business models.
I would say that it's surely premature to say it's a "trade
association" or even a peer, but you have to credit the guy for
stepping forward and getting something started toward that goal. These
things do start somewhere and generally it takes a Joe Pobereskin or
Clarence Walker to do it. Also, It makes no difference to me whether
the instigator has tons of stock or photo experience. It's recognizing
a void and acting on it that's admirable.
*This* group is a great forum with a large history and a terrific group
of varied contributors. Let's see how he moves forward with his.
Chuck Goodenough
On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Joseph Pobereskin wrote:
>
> Clarence joined SAA but, noting the bias against Royalty Free
> providers attempted to redirect SAA's agenda to a more inclusive one,
> an agenda that respects RF and its producers as equals to be embraced
> by the Rights Managed community. He was unsuccessful in this regard
>
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Clarence Walker
the I.S.I.A. forum is positioned as a vehicle for communications. This is
further discussed in the welcome letter and in the postings to the forum.
However, this is not my forum or my association, so much of the further work
of definition and development will come from the members. The members will
determine how and where I.S.I.A. goes from here. The is no cost for I.S.I.A.
membership and membership is open to all who ascribe to our basic
principles. I.S.I.A. is inclusive to a very broad range of backgrounds.
Nobody is forcing anyone to join our efforts and we are not in competition
with any other trade association or group. In fact, we have gladly accepted
all who care to participate, regardless of other affiliations. In many ways
this will be a key to all we do, acting together as professionals sharing a
common commitment to developing an ethical and professional trade
association to serve the fundamental needs of stock imagery as a profession.
I am truly sorry that anyone would see this as anything other than what it
is, a de facto effort to work together.
Clarence W. Walker
Creative Expression Photography
http://www.creativeexpressiononline.com
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Bob Croxford
> If any would care to view the description of StockImagery, it
> details how
> the I.S.I.A. forum is positioned as a vehicle for communications.
> This is
I would have thought that there already is a group to satisfy
Clarence. Its called STOCKPHOTO. When you join the group you get this
message which perfectly describes a stockphoto forum.
snip
The STOCKPHOTO Network has been set up to allow professional stock
photographers, stock photography libraries, stock photo-buyers, and
anyone else interested in the stock photography industry to
participate in an open global discussion on topics of professional
interest. These topics can include stock photography trends, subject
needs, business practices, copyright and other legal issues, new
technology, or just about anything that relates to the stock
photography industry.
end snip.
Anything else is superfluous.
The only reason to have other organisations is for specific reasons.
SAA and PI are two such with a high level of professionalism. What
newbies and wannabes like Clarence seem to miss is that the vast
majority of professional photographers do know what they are talking
about. Because wannabes do not like the message does not mean the
message is wrong. It means that the wannabes are too inexperienced to
understand it.
Bob Croxford
ATMOSPHERE PICTURE LIBRARY
Willis Vean
Mullion
Helston
Cornwall TR12 7DF
UK
Paul Aparycki
> Because wannabes do not like the message does not mean the
> message is wrong. It means that the wannabes are too inexperienced to
> understand it.
>
> Bob Croxford
Absolutely bulls-eye Bob!!!
Naievete always seems to want to write a new set of rules to suit their
needs.
Only one thing I can add, and this is to Bob, vis-a-vis your comment . . .
DUCK!!!! ;-))
all the best
Paul Aparycki
Bob Croxford
>> message is wrong. It means that the wannabes are too inexperienced to
>> understand it.
>>
>> Bob Croxford
>>
>
> Absolutely bulls-eye Bob!!!
>
> Naievete always seems to want to write a new set of rules to suit
> their
> needs.
>
> Only one thing I can add, and this is to Bob, vis-a-vis your
> comment . . .
> DUCK!!!! ;-))
>
> all the best
>
> Paul Aparycki
Dear Paul
I'm used to sticking my neck out. I remember all those exchanges on
the Stockphoto list back in 1999. There was a surplus of IT
consultants who were earning big money on the Y2000 scam who were
facing unemployment the next year. Many thought they could switch to
photography and make big money straight away. They just did not see
that they needed talent first.
Wannabes are a peculiarly American thing. I remember arriving in San
Francisco for the first time. The taxi driver from the airport was a
wannabe dramatist which she told us within five minutes. Arriving at
the hotel we were met by the receptionist who was a wannabe singer.
The barmaid downstairs was a wannabe actress and so it went. Every
one seemed to be living out a fantasy life as something else. Why, I
don't know. Perhaps to impress their girlfriends/boyfriends.
Bob Croxford
ATMOSPHERE PICTURE LIBRARY
Willis Vean
Mullion
Helston
Cornwall TR12 7DF
UK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bee...@aol.com
Wannabes are a peculiarly American thing.
Now Now Bob...
I can match your San Francisco stories with those from Shannon, or London,
but we all smiled at the generalization.
Glad you're back.
Bob GINN
Rubens Abboud
>
> In a message dated 10/12/2005 1:54:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Wannabes are a peculiarly American thing.
>
> Now Now Bob...
>
> I can match your San Francisco stories with those from Shannon,
Bob(s),
I think Bob Croxford is right.
I typed "american wannabe" into Google and got 1.7 million hits.
"pompous british" yielded only a third of that.
:-)
Best regards,
Rubens.
http://www.TheImageNation.com
Travel stock photography
Bob Croxford
Its just jumped to 2.2 million!
Whatever you do don't confuse Irishmen from Shannon with pompous
British.
only 227,000 Pompous Irish on Google;-)
Bob
On 12 Oct 2005, at 15:03, Rubens Abboud wrote:
>> I can match your San Francisco stories with those from Shannon,
>> Bob GINN
>>
>
> Bob(s),
>
> I think Bob Croxford is right.
>
> I typed "american wannabe" into Google and got 1.7 million hits.
>
> "pompous british" yielded only a third of that.
>
> :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rubens.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Stockphoto Seller
Carl May/BPS
bee...@aol.com
>> I can match your San Francisco stories with those from Shannon,
>> Bob GINN
>>
>
> Bob(s),
>
> I think Bob Croxford is right.
>
> I typed "american wannabe" into Google and got 1.7 million hits.
>
> "pompous british" yielded only a third of that.
Damn - Bobs right again! I wannabe right!
Bob GINN