Arduino Hack Session?
hellocatfood
Arduino themed hack session. Is it something you'd want to do?
Also, what could we do or build as part of it? Answers on a
postcard...
Ant
Dave Nash
October so I might as well make an input now.
I doubt I'll be able to get the time off to come down, but http://roguescience.org
have a very interesting tutorial working through the basics of a MIDI
controller on the Arduino, I did it the other night and it'd be quite
easy to build a workshop on.
Dave
genzaichi
I think at some stage - although probably not this time around - we
should do a workshop (ie buying the components in in bulk) that goes
through building your own bare-bones Arduino board and programming the
chip.
Kind of an amalgamation of
http://www.instructables.com/id/Standalone-Arduino-ATMega-chip-on-breadboard/
and
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
and then getting it soldered onto stripboard.
I've just done a calculation based on buying components for 50-off and
the cost of components looks like being about £4-5 per 'board'.
Definitely worth it if, like me, you've reached the stage where you're
using the Arduino platform a lot for projects and don't want to use a
£25 proper board each time!
nikki
Andrew Nixon
head round the arduino a bit more. As for an arduino session I like
that idea too but aren't quite imaginative enough to come up with a
good way to spend the evening.
Andrew.
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hellocatfood
free-for-all. Next question is, are there any Arduino experts in the
house who'd want to lead a session?
Ant
On Jun 16, 12:07 pm, Andrew Nixon <andrewnix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Totally agree with Nikki. I for one would like to be able to get my
> head round the arduino a bit more. As for an arduino session I like
> that idea too but aren't quite imaginative enough to come up with a
> good way to spend the evening.
>
> Andrew.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
> > I think at some stage - although probably not this time around - we
> > should do a workshop (ie buying the components in in bulk) that goes
> > through building your own bare-bones Arduino board and programming the
> > chip.
>
> > Kind of an amalgamation of
genzaichi
project to work through together.
http://www.instructables.com/technology/arduino/
http://www.freeduino.org/
etc or the midi one Dave liked the look of
People can pool resources when it comes to buying components, problem
solving and enthusiasm levels.
I haven't really mastered the basics yet, but have managed to bluff my
way through more advanced stuff to make projects happen!
I could do with chums to work through either:
* some basics such as Earthshine Designs Arduino Starter Kit tutorials
* multiplexing - for lots of blinky lights
* or using Arduino to control bigger stuff. (I think this involves
transistors)
nikki
Andrew Thomas
If you want something to start off using transistors then a very good guide
was in nuts'n'volts magazine:
http://www.parallax.com/Resources/NutsVoltsColumns/NutsVoltsVolume1/tabid/44
4/Default.aspx
It's Column #6, Silicon Steroids for Your Stamp. All the other nuts'n'volts
articles there are good for lots of beginner topics.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
Aaron Shrimpton
bare bones / special purpose Ardunios
At the moment I'm trying reducing the power consumption of an ardunio
based sensor platform, hopefully to within the realms of small solar
panel.
I've implemented a breadboard ardunio before so I might be able to
help people with that.
Aaron
genzaichi
I'll be ordering components soonish through our friends at Aston, so
if people speak up with a rough idea about how many sets they might be
interested in I can factor that in.
It's very bare bones:
*Chip
*Socket
*Voltage regulator
*Crystal
*2 pairs of capacitors
*battery connector
and a few other bits and bobs like battery clip and power led
I've thus far used one (breadboarded) with this set-up to drive the
Secret Knock in the Box, and will be using a load more soon on a PCB
version.
The chips are blank and will need the bootloader putting on which I'll
either be doing at Aston with their AVR programmers or with another
Arduino board. Or probably a combination of both, 'cos I definitely
want to try the latter.
I/we can probably make a build-your-own-arduino session happen if a
gang of people register their interest ahead of time. Are you in,
Andrew N, Aaron?
nikki
On Jun 16, 11:36 pm, Aaron Shrimpton <aaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm interested in pooling resources to buy components, especially for
> bare bones / special purpose Ardunios
>
> At the moment I'm trying reducing the power consumption of an ardunio
> based sensor platform, hopefully to within the realms of small solar
> panel.
>
> I've implemented a breadboard ardunio before so I might be able to
> help people with that.
>
> Aaron
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Andrew Thomas
>
> > Hi,
>
> > If you want something to start off using transistors then a very good guide
> > was in nuts'n'volts magazine:
>
Aaron Shrimpton
Andrew Nixon
Thanks,
Andrew (N)
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Andrew Thomas
Sorry to be stingy: I'd be interested in one (plus maybe a spare avr chip,
just in case). I'm with Aaron on trying to make a very low power arduino,
that would be very nice :-)
hellocatfood
in mind for making it happen? How long would it take to get components
in?
Ant
On Jun 17, 11:42 am, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
genzaichi
components and maybe some AVR programming.
Will have a think about dates for the hack session after that. Won't
take very long for components to arrive once they've been ordered.
Aaron, Andrew T, have you seen this?
http://hcgilje.wordpress.com/resources/arduino-standalone/
Any use?
Also, Andrew, thanks for the Nuts and Volts link. Here's a shortened
url in case anyone else who was having trouble with the long link
getting truncated:
http://is.gd/cT4uz (.pdf)
Andrew Thomas
Thanks, that's an interesting link. I might try it when you do the
arduinohackshop.
I was thinking (dangerous I know) that a simple avr programmer shouldn't be
more that a tenner, and lots of people might find it useful, so would it be
a good idea if fizzpop got one to go with its other tools? Just a thought
(and maybe fizzpop could make some pin money selling bootloader enabled
chips :-)
Aaron Shrimpton
loader had a long reset delay.
A fizz pop avr programmer sounds like a good idea it'd probably get
quite a lot of use.
genzaichi
Yeah, sounds like an AVR programmer would be worth investing in. I'll
check at Aston next week to see what they're using and if we can get a
good price on one. The others I've seen seem to start from about the
£15/£20 sort of mark.
Do you guys want to have a look 'round and see what sort of thing
would meet your needs, 'cos I have no knowledge of this sort of thing.
I have however successfully done this
http://www.instructables.com/id/Standalone-Arduino-ATMega-chip-on-breadboard/
and http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP now, so that bodes well
for how simple it must be! :)
Neither of them take particularly long, so might be worth combining
with looking through low power options and I think I've seen something
about a sleep function somewhere too that might fit in with this vein
of thinking...
nikki
On Jun 17, 9:51 pm, Aaron Shrimpton <aaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is a good link, I didn't realize that the original Lilllpad boot
> loader had a long reset delay.
>
> A fizz pop avr programmer sounds like a good idea it'd probably get
> quite a lot of use.
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Andrew Thomas
>
>
> read more »
Andrew Thomas
Sleep mode is pretty much a feature of most microcontrollers. The biggest problem is that to use a2d a voltage regulator is normally needed (although for some things I think avr's have an internal 1V ref), so the power supply can waste power when sleeping. It could be quite interesting to try to make a very low power arduino, and using 8mhz like in your link would help.
I can have a quick search for a programmer if needed. However, are you thinking of a cheap avr in-circuit cable, or a better zif socket multi-purpose programmer? My experience is that the latter is worth the extra cost, especially if you want flexibility for hacking, workshops, etc.
Aaron Shrimpton
of the tests I've done the regulator accounts for over 50% of the
sleeping power consumption.
I'm considering not using a regulator and measuring Vin
(http://code.google.com/p/tinkerit/wiki/SecretVoltmeter) before using
the a2d. If the 1V ref can be access externally that might be an even
better option.
The downside of not using a regulator is the Ardunio will be more
sensitive to small changes in supply voltage.
For the programmer I have the Avr V2 ISP which can be a bit of a pain
to use with breadboards but works very well.
G Bulmer
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card_v2.asp?tool_id=3808
it's about £38 from, e.g.
http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?tier1URL=Electronic-Components&tier2URL=Integrated-Circuits&tier3URL=Atmel-Microcontrollers&tier4URL=AVR-ISP-In-system-programmer-Mk2&moduleno=77826
I have one, and would bring it along to a meeting, for people to use
(but I'm in a flacky state of health, so I'm not very reliable). It
can program an 8-bit AVR, including ATtiny, and not just ATmega, so
handy if you want to make a smaller cheaper gizmo than an Arduino.
As Nikki says the Arduino can be used to program another Arduino.
The hardware programming interface is SPI, i.e. the AVR looks like a
very tiny flash memory. An Arduino can be an SPI master (when it's
doing the programming), or an SPI slave (when it's being programmed).
This should be able to program any AVR in theory, but I haven't
noticed if anyone has tried.
The folks at obdev developed USB for AVR, without needing USB
hardware; it's all done in software (extremely interesting, well worth
a look).
They developed a USB AVR programmer:
http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/usbasploader.html
The license is restricted somewhat, you can make small quantities for
your own use, but not sell them.
The wonderful Ladyada, has developed something similar, but
unconstrained:
http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/index.html
The PCB's are $5+P&P from the USA, P&P was $11.64, so about $7.35 each
(remembering to keep under the VAT free £18 import limit)
The part cost is well under £5, except for the nifty case, which I've
only found in the USA.
If you look at the tutorial http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/solder.html
You can see that it is just about buildable on veroboard, though I
haven't tried. An awkward bit might be the USB socket, the ones I
bought aren't on a 0.1" pitch.
There are always AVR ISP's on eBay, this for example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USBASP-USB-AVRISP-AVR-ISP-Programmer-AVRDUDE-WINAVR-/360246572427?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e05e758b#ht_1377wt_1139
is $21. I can't vouch for it, I just did a quick search.
All of these approaches use an 'Atmel standard' 6 pin header, arranged
as a 2x3, so we could make an adapter out of a bit of veroboard to
make it easy to plug the 2x3 plug into breadboard, or as folks have
suggested, get a ZIF socket, and mount it on veroboard, or something.
E.g. http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/DIL-Sockets/Universal-ZIF-sockets/63773
which is £11.69 for 28-pin, which would be okay for an ATmega, and
with some thought, maybe, could be used for ATtiny too.
If folks wanted a reasonably stable and robust DIYduino, it could be
moved onto veroboard and soldered up, and their are a bunch of PCB's
available. I have an interesting single sided PCB a friend made for
me, which I could bring along.
Remember, this won't have USB, so it'll need a USB to serial cable,
the favourite is the FTDI ones, because they look exactly the same as
a normal USB Arduino, for example:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6877770
which are quite expensive, about £18.
There is a much cheaper solution, which is to use a Nokia phone cable,
there are several, e.g. a DKU-5, which can be picked up for under £3
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=DKU-5&_sacat=See-All-Categories
An example of hacking a Nokia phone cable is here:
http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/diy-usb-to-serial-cable-for-3usd/
HTH GB
On Jun 19, 7:11 pm, genzaichi <genzai...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, sounds like an AVR programmer would be worth investing in. I'll
> check at Aston next week to see what they're using and if we can get a
> good price on one. The others I've seen seem to start from about the
> £15/£20 sort of mark.
>
> Do you guys want to have a look 'round and see what sort of thing
> would meet your needs, 'cos I have no knowledge of this sort of thing.
>
> andhttp://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISPnow, so that bodes well
>
> read more »
G Bulmer
As ever, Andrew is correct.
There are very, very few voltage regulators which use very little
power. Martin Barrat did a very good presentation on this very topic
at MINOS 2010, I think his slides are on micromouseonline.com.
Even the ones that claim to consume no current, actually need an
output load which do consume enough current to keep them operating
properly!
There is nothing to stop runing the Arduino directly off a battery
though.
The internal 1.1V reference that the ATmega microcontroller supplies
would be okay for small voltages. A problem is though, that higher
voltages will need some sort of voltage divider, to get the voltage
down to 1.1V, and a simple voltage divider using resistors would need
to be about 10K, and hence use a big fraction of a milliamp itself.
GB
>
> I can have a quick search for a programmer if needed. However, are you thinking of a cheap avr in-circuit cable, or a better zif socket multi-purpose programmer? My experience is that the latter is worth the extra cost, especially if you want flexibility for hacking, workshops, etc.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: genzaichi <genzai...@googlemail.com>
> Sent: 19 June 2010 19:11
> To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> Yeah, sounds like an AVR programmer would be worth investing in. I'll
> check at Aston next week to see what they're using and if we can get a
> good price on one. The others I've seen seem to start from about the
> £15/£20 sort of mark.
>
> Do you guys want to have a look 'round and see what sort of thing
> would meet your needs, 'cos I have no knowledge of this sort of thing.
>
> andhttp://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISPnow, so that bodes well
G Bulmer
On Jun 20, 2:28 pm, Aaron Shrimpton <aaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrew is right, the biggest problem is the voltage regulator. In some
> of the tests I've done the regulator accounts for over 50% of the
> sleeping power consumption.
http://micromouseonline.com/sites/default/files/minos10/minos10-barratt-power.pdf
though very low power wasn't his focus, he did suggest ways to reduce
the quiescent current.
>
> I'm considering not using a regulator and measuring Vin
> (http://code.google.com/p/tinkerit/wiki/SecretVoltmeter) before using
> the a2d. If the 1V ref can be access externally that might be an even
> better option.
Looking at the ATmega 48/88/168/328 document (doc8161),
especially "Figure 23-1. Analog to Digital Converter Block Schematic
Operation"
It looks like the internal reference voltage might be available on
AREF. There is just a MOSFET to disconnect it.
Neat.
> The downside of not using a regulator is the Ardunio will be more
> sensitive to small changes in supply voltage.
cell, maybe?
I have a copy of "The Art of Electronics" which has a whole chapter on
micropower design, including some approaches to switching power itself
(I haven't read it though).
My health is a bit flacky, but I plan to bring it to a meeting for
Andrew T, so maybe have a glance then?
>
> For the programmer I have the Avr V2 ISP which can be a bit of a pain
> to use with breadboards but works very well.
handy :-)
>
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Andrew Thomas
>
>
>
> <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > Sleep mode is pretty much a feature of most microcontrollers. The biggest problem is that to use a2d a voltage regulator is normally needed (although for some things I think avr's have an internal 1V ref), so the power supply can waste power when sleeping. It could be quite interesting to try to make a very low power arduino, and using 8mhz like in your link would help.
>
> > I can have a quick search for a programmer if needed. However, are you thinking of a cheap avr in-circuit cable, or a better zif socket multi-purpose programmer? My experience is that the latter is worth the extra cost, especially if you want flexibility for hacking, workshops, etc.
>
> > Best wishes,
>
> > Andrew.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: genzaichi <genzai...@googlemail.com>
> > Sent: 19 June 2010 19:11
> > To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
> > Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> > Yeah, sounds like an AVR programmer would be worth investing in. I'll
> > check at Aston next week to see what they're using and if we can get a
> > good price on one. The others I've seen seem to start from about the
> > £15/£20 sort of mark.
>
> > Do you guys want to have a look 'round and see what sort of thing
> > would meet your needs, 'cos I have no knowledge of this sort of thing.
>
> > I have however successfully done this
> > andhttp://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISPnow, so that bodes well
Andrew Thomas
I seem to remember seeing in a magazine (?elektor?) ages ago a simple
regulating circuit that allows for a sleep mode. I think it was a little
chip and needed a capacitor and inductor (may have been a switch mode chip).
If I find it I'll let you know. I'll be very interested in Aaron's info on
power consumption and using an avr with just a battery :-)
I agree with Gary about a bit of veroboard. For my PicKit programmer I built
little veroboard adaptors for different microcontrollers, with a few header
pins to connect the two, and it worked quite well. Maybe if FizzPop got the
same one as Aaron we could put together a veroboard design for others to
copy (and maybe Aaron could teach us how to use it)?
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:birmingham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of G Bulmer
Sent: 20 June 2010 15:24
To: Birmingham Hack Space
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Dave Nash
this:
http://fab.cba.mit.edu/content/projects/fabisp/
While it's only ISP and not got as many features as some of the other
suggestions, it might be worth etching a few boards (Or I'd be willing
to put in an order with BatchPCB if there's enough interest) so that
there's a few of them knocking around fizzPop.
On Jun 20, 8:46 pm, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> regulating circuit that allows for a sleep mode. I think it was a little
> chip and needed a capacitor and inductor (may have been a switch mode chip).
> If I find it I'll let you know. I'll be very interested in Aaron's info on
> power consumption and using an avr with just a battery :-)
>
> I agree with Gary about a bit of veroboard. For my PicKit programmer I built
> little veroboard adaptors for different microcontrollers, with a few header
> pins to connect the two, and it worked quite well. Maybe if FizzPop got the
> same one as Aaron we could put together a veroboard design for others to
> copy (and maybe Aaron could teach us how to use it)?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:birmingham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of G Bulmer
> Sent: 20 June 2010 15:24
> To: Birmingham Hack Space
> Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> On Jun 20, 2:28 pm, Aaron Shrimpton <aaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Andrew is right, the biggest problem is the voltage regulator. In some
> > of the tests I've done the regulator accounts for over 50% of the
> > sleeping power consumption.
>
> read more »
Adrian Godwin
http://dangerousprototypes.com/bus-pirate-manual/
http://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2009/12/09/bus-pirate-stk500v2-avr-programmer-firmware/
Disclaimer - I have a bus pirate but haven't had any need to try that firmware yet.
-adrian
plai...@gmail.com
I'll try this method when I get it and update on here with the results.
G Bulmer
programmer, an Arduio and 6 pieces if wire:
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
If this looks too clunky, I've made a 'daughter board' for an Arduino
in the past. It was a breadboard, small pieces of veroboard, ordinary
0.1" pin headers, solder, and a little bit of care and some small
pliers. So we could make a little adapter and use an Arduino as an 'In
Circuit Serial Programmer'.
This is not to say don't do the other approaches.
I'm just saying for a £ in parts (few inches of veroboard, header
pins, and a few bits of wire), and an Arduino, which many people
interested in DIY Arduino's have, you've got a programmer!
GB
plai...@gmail.com
To: Birmingham Hack Space<birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Andrew Thomas
For my own use I like the daughterboard ideas, whether as Gary describes or
using a cable like Aaron's. The original plan was having one for FizzPop
though, including for Nikki to program cheap board-duinos. Would these ideas
provide something robust and flexible enough for that and FizzPop workshops?
If so, I have a couple of zif sockets and would be willing to donate one for
making a fizzpop programmer if that's the way it's heading.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:birmingham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of G Bulmer
Sent: 21 June 2010 02:28
To: Birmingham Hack Space
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
GB
--
genzaichi
happy about the situation, 'cos I had to take his brains out to do so,
but hey ho!), but if it's worth buying something for fizzPOP for more
advanced stuff - and it sounds like it might be - just let Ant/me know
exactly what and, if there's enough money in the coffers, we'll buy
what needs buying.
boarduino - ArduinoISP - daughterboard combo sounds like a nice run of
projects for people at my sort of level. 'fraid I haven't understood
much of the recent thread, but that could be a sign it'd be worth
having that going on at the same time too.
I'm thinking in terms of getting an order for http://onecall.farnell.com
together for Thursday morning, so if people want stuff from there be
sure to give me parts numbers, quantities (and money if it's something
expensive) etc for Wednesday night, please.
Maybe we can just have a "DIY Arduino" themed session the following
fortnight (if nothing else is already programmed in).
nikki
On Jun 21, 10:52 am, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
G Bulmer
very doable. It is only 6 connections: power, ground, reset, and 3
SPI. Because it is only 6 connections, it should be easier to make
than the thing I made.
We could put a 2x3 header on the veroboard so the usual pin header
wire can be used too. Then it could plug into a Boarduino, Arduino,
Nano, etc without removing the chip. That would allow folks to use
surface mount technology too (get out your mini ovens :-).
I had asked Mr Google about a PCB, and he said:
http://drug123.org.ua/mega-isp-shield/
which plugs onto an Arduino and brings the programming pins to a
header. If someone would like to make a PCB for that, it would be neat
solution. Even better might be to add space for ZIF socket too.
Garry
On Jun 21, 10:52 am, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Andrew Thomas
I won't be there this week, but will be around for the 7th July diyduino
night. If you need money for my simple arduino kit and extra avr chip now
just let me know and I can paypal it to you. Perhaps best I'm not here this
week, as I'm a bit worried Evil Ted might be an ex FizzPopper who didn't pay
;-)
As you're happy with using the arduino as a programmer, and Gary knows all
about how to do it, I think I'll try to be consistent and see if I can make
a programmer using the diyduino kit. The talk of the port commander was good
too, as I would like to include i2c eeprom programming.
G Bulmer
sensing.
I think the designer wanted to monitor his water tank (maybe a 'drip-
tray' monitored for leaks?).
I think he used old fashioned CMOS as the heart of his power control.
Old fashioned CMOS logic will run upto 18V, I think, and would run for
years on a modest battery.
Fortunately, I almost never throw anything away, so I'll try to
remember to find it.
Unfortunately, I almost never throw anything away, so it's almost
impossible to find anything.
I had a somewhat pervy thought. It is to use something small, like an
8-pin ATtiny, with a low-power 32KHz watch crystal, or low-speed
internal oscillator, to control power to something much more complex,
which couldn't be easily made to use very little power otherwise.
ATtiny's are only about a £, and a MOSFET might be needed to switch
power. I think a PICOPower ATtiny would use very little power.
Or get a real-time clock chip, designed for the job. I think most
places sell something like:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Integrated-Circuits/Real-Time-Clocks
A couple of the pins on an AVR can be used to wake the chip up from
deep sleep too.
Just a though
Garry
On Jun 20, 8:46 pm, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> regulating circuit that allows for a sleep mode. I think it was a little
> chip and needed a capacitor and inductor (may have been a switch mode chip).
> If I find it I'll let you know. I'll be very interested in Aaron's info on
> power consumption and using an avr with just a battery :-)
>
> I agree with Gary about a bit of veroboard. For my PicKit programmer I built
> little veroboard adaptors for different microcontrollers, with a few header
> pins to connect the two, and it worked quite well. Maybe if FizzPop got the
> same one as Aaron we could put together a veroboard design for others to
> copy (and maybe Aaron could teach us how to use it)?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:birmingham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of G Bulmer
> Sent: 20 June 2010 15:24
> To: Birmingham Hack Space
> Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> On Jun 20, 2:28 pm, Aaron Shrimpton <aaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Andrew is right, the biggest problem is the voltage regulator. In some
> > of the tests I've done the regulator accounts for over 50% of the
> > sleeping power consumption.
>
> read more »
Andrew Thomas
That's very interesting. I was thinking of a DS1307 as many low power projects need rtc and they are really low power. The DS1307 can raise a pin high at a preset alarm time, which could be used to switch a transistor prior to the regulator. I might give it a go if I can find a transistor with very low loss when switched off.
Aaron Shrimpton
breadunio using the internal oscillator as a primary clock and a 32K
external crystal connected to the asynchronous timer. This can wake
the Ardunio up from a reasonably deep sleep once a second. It won't be
as efficient as a DS1307 alarm, but might be less parts.
The minos10 link is very good, thanks Garry as is the Art of
Electronics reference, I've got a copy but completely neglected to
check it.
For the programmer: I think the bus pirate would be the better asset
for fizzpop maybe with custom daughterboard / zif socket. The usb tiny
based ones look amazing, if I was to buy a avr isp for myself again
I'd get one of those.
Cheers,
Aaron
Andrew Thomas
Is that without a voltage regulator and a variable a2d reference? Also, do
you have a recommended link for the crystal circuit and arduino code? I
might give it a go as I've had a new idea, which is to use 3 AAA
rechargeable batteries, and then have a small voltage regulator that the
arduino can turn on using a transistor, and then use as an a2d voltage
reference. That would be easier and use a few less parts than using an RTC
chip (and lower power).
Sorry not to have emailed this sooner, have been away.
Aaron Shrimpton
Hi andrew,
I think you might be on to something there with the transistor controlled aref. Unfortunatly I'm away this weekend so i can't draw out the circuit diagram however it is exactly the same as the link nikki posted earlier in this thread with the crystal replaced with a 32k one. The instructions for setting it up will be the same except when it comes to programming the fuse bits. You need to set the clock source to the internal ossilator.
I did mannage to upload some libraries (with example sketches) this morning which contain references to the key avr application notes.
http://www.madsie.co.uk/arduino/UnixTime.zip
http://www.madsie.co.uk/arduino/Timer2RTC.zip
Cheers,
Aaron
On Jun 25, 2010 10:08 PM, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
Is that without a voltage regulator and a variable a2d reference? Also, do
you have a recommended link for the crystal circuit and arduino code? I
might give it a go as I've had a new idea, which is to use 3 AAA
rechargeable batteries, and then have a small voltage regulator that the
arduino can turn on using a transistor, and then use as an a2d voltage
reference. That would be easier and use a few less parts than using an RTC
chip (and lower power).
Sorry not to have emailed this sooner, have been away.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:birmingham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Shrimpton
Sent: 21 June 2010 23:4...
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Birmingham Hack Space" gr...
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Andrew Lewis
supply: Is this the sort of thing we're talking about?
http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2047
MAX are pretty good at giving free samples of chips, I've used them
before for various projects.
Cheers,
Andrew
Andrew Thomas
Thanks for the info. I'll try to remember to get a small adjustable regulator before Nikki's diy arduino session, and try building the circuit then to see how it works and what the power consumption is.
The maxim chip looks very good, much lower sleep consumption than step up regulators I've seen in the past. I'd like to keep it very simple for now, but I agree that it could be a really good way to build a really low power arduino.
Have a good weekend :-)
Trevor....@gmail.com
> Hi guys. Have not been around for ages but this thread caught my interest.
>
> I did read over the thread but I am not quite sure what type of low power you are after. Is there a message that details clearly what you guys are building and the low power requirement? I have done low power design stuff before so might have some helpful input.
>
> Thanks
>
> Trev
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to birmingham-hack-...@googlegroups.com.
Trevor....@gmail.com
Hi guys. Have not been around for ages but this thread caught my interest.
I did read over the thread but I am not quite sure what type of low power you are after. Is there a message that details clearly what you guys are building and the low power requirement? I have done low power design stuff before so might have some helpful input.
Thanks
Trev
Andrew Thomas
Hi,
Personally I’m just interested in how to make an arduino with ultra-low power consumption. There are better microcontrollers around for low power stuff, but it’s nice to see what can be done that’s arduino compatible as they’re so widely used. Also, it’s nice to see just how simple and cheap such a circuit could be, as complexity and cost issues make it less interesting for beginner projects.
So, more a voyage of discovery than actually building something. However, it would be nice to see how long a vlp arduino could last on three aaa’s, as it would be quite useful for some data logging and sensing applications.
If you have any ideas I’d be interested to hear them J
Best wishes,
Andrew.
G Bulmer
schools, colleges, and the interested hobbyist.
My main interests are robotics and physical computing, but one
interest is running Arduino's at low power for data logging.
As usual, the idea is to run at very low-power for 99.9% of the time,
say 999milli-seconds/second, then wake and take a sample.
Using an ordinary voltage regulator uses far more current than the
Arduino.
It's okay to run the chip straight off batteries without a voltage
regulator (making sure to connect it the right way round :-)
The newer 'PicoPower' ATmega's will run with anything from 5.5V down
to 1.8V straight from batteries. Though it won't work at say 16MHz
much below 4V.
At 1MHz, the spec says the ATmega runs on less than 0.5mA at 3V, or 2
AAA's, or one hearing aid battery, and will work down to 1.8V (which
is pretty flat). So one of those 120mAhour hearing aid batteries would
power an active processor (not sure about peripherals) for about 10
days.
Further, as I read the spec, "Power-save" with the 32KHz crystal
oscillator running, uses under 1 uA at 3V (under 25C), so a 120mA
hearing aid battery could last for about 13.7 years! Enough to set an
alarm, when you first take the kids to school, to take your kids to
university ;-)
Hmm, this does seem interesting.
GB
On Jun 26, 8:59 pm, "Andrew Thomas" <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > > Hi guys. Have not been around for ages but this thread caught my
> interest.
>
> > > I did read over the thread but I am not quite sure what type of low
>
> power you are after. Is there a message that details clearly what you guys
> are building and the low power requirement? I have done low power design
> stuff before so might have some helpful input.
>
> > > Thanks
>
> > > Trev
>
> > > > Hi Aaron and Andrew,
>
> > > > Thanks for the info. I'll try to remember to get a small adjustable
>
> regulator before Nikki's diy arduino session, and try building the circuit
> then to see how it works and what the power consumption is.
>
> > > > The maxim chip looks very good, much lower sleep consumption than step
>
> up regulators I've seen in the past. I'd like to keep it very simple for
> now, but I agree that it could be a really good way to build a really low
> power arduino.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > Have a good weekend :-)
>
> > > > Best wishes,
>
> > > > Andrew.
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
>
>
> > > > Sent: 26 June 2010 12:28
>
> > > > To: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
>
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> > > > Hi andrew,
>
> > > > I think you might be on to something there with the transistor
> controlled
>
> > > > aref. Unfortunatly I'm away this weekend so i can't draw out the
> circuit
>
> > > > diagram however it is exactly the same as the link nikki posted
> earlier in
>
> > > > this thread with the crystal replaced with a 32k one. The instructions
> for
>
> > > > setting it up will be the same except when it comes to programming the
> fuse
>
> > > > bits. You need to set the clock source to the internal ossilator.
>
> > > > I did mannage to upload some libraries (with example sketches) this
> morning
>
> > > > which contain references to the key avr application notes.
>
> > > >http://www.madsie.co.uk/arduino/UnixTime.zip
>
> > > >http://www.madsie.co.uk/arduino/Timer2RTC.zip
>
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > Aaron
>
Andrew Thomas
I've got most of the parts now (except avr) to try seeing how low a power consumption is possible with a 168/368 chip. Hopefully will try it soon. The idea is to run it directly off batteries as you say, but that leads to a2d difficulties due to the supply voltage change over time.
I'm hoping that a small 3.3V regulator connected to vref, and switched on/off with a transistor, will take care of that. The transistor will also power a voltage divider so the avr can check how long it can survive so that next time it turns on it'll know if the vref is going to be correct (and avoid turning on the regulator when battery power is very low).
Lots of useful sensors are 3.3V these days, hence 3xAAA to start with, so switching on the regulator occasionally could allow some useful data logging without burning too much power. It'll be really interesting to see how long the batteries last that way.
The ultra-low-power avr's will be an excellent next step. Sometime I might try to see how difficult it would be to integrate one into the arduino ide, as it would be nice to keep it arduino compatible. Unless of course you're already planning a ULPfreeduino?
Thanks for the tips :-)
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: G Bulmer <gbu...@gmail.com>
Sent: 30 June 2010 01:57
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Dave Nash
piece of kit, I'd recommend it strongly to anyone with a knowledge of
serial protocols. Or willing to learn them!
When I've finished this stretch of night shifts I'll test out the AVR
programming firmware for it, it looks promising though.
Dave
Aaron Shrimpton
I've finally gotten around to drawing out the breadboard circuit I'm working on:
http://www.madsie.co.uk/arduino/low-power/
The headline figure is 7uA in sleep mode at 2.2v. Still some way off
the datasheets theoretical value of 2uA for the avr + wireless chip.
I've tried the Arduino measuring its own input voltage. The results
are a bit to inaccurate and unstable to be usable. This might be down
to my breadboard.
I found that disabling the ADC before sleeping yielded the most
significant saving (around 240 uA) also disabling serial shaved 50uA.
Interestingly one of the small 36x27mm solar cells found in pound shop
solar garden lights was able to power this circuit for several 10
second interval sample-transmit-sleep cycles during a period of
bright-ish sunshine this evening.
Cheers,
Aaron
Andrew Thomas
Nice diagram :-) I read somewhere recently that to achieve the stated sleep current it's necessary to set all pins to inputs. Not sure if that helps you, but thought I'd mention it just in case.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
G Bulmer
shop solar garden lights was able to power this circuit for several
10
second interval sample-transmit-sleep cycles during a period of
bright-ish sunshine this evening. "
At that sort of cost, school children could do some quite funcky
science experiments.
Are you using radio to get the data off it?
GB
Aaron Shrimpton
I'll check which pins are outputs during sleep mode and I am using the
radio to get the data out.
Cheers,
Aaron
genzaichi
The parts are split between onecall and ebay so I need to contact the
ebay retailer and get a quote for combined postage, but the kit price
is still looking like being in the £4-5 region (doesn't include strip
or breadboard, so you'll need to provide something to assemble it
onto).
To keep things simple I'm going to only deal with complete kits and
there should be something like 20-30 available to fizzPOP in the first
instance, if there's the demand.
I'm not in the best of heath at the moment and next week's going to be
hard work so probably won't be at the next hack session, but the one
after that is looking doable for the DIY arduino event.
nikki
Aaron Shrimpton
Complete kits is fine by me, I think I was the only one being difficult.
Cheers,
Aaron
Andrew Thomas
Don't worry Aaron, I was being difficult too. Nikki, I'm happy to have just a kit, thanks.
I won't be at the session after next, so if possible it would be nice if I could have it the following one (please let me know if you want paying soon if that's a problem).
I hope you're feeling better soon :-)
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Shrimpton <aar...@gmail.com>
Sent: 04 July 2010 20:39
To: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
genzaichi
http://code.google.com/p/narcoleptic/
"Library implementing sleep modes, allowing extremely low power
consumption on Arduino based projects.
Narcoleptic uses the sleep functionality of the AVR microcontroller to
almost completely shut down the entire CPU, just leaving a low power
timer running to trigger the wake up. "
hellocatfood
As usual I made a little image that could go with it
http://www.hellocatfood.com/misc/arduino.png
Of course, it doesn't have to be used ;-)
Ant
genzaichi
Can't say for sure when I'll get them since there are negotiations
about collection etc once they get delivered to Aston.
Thanks for the effort for the image, but I think it's misleading in
terms of content and I don't yet have a confirmed price on the
components, so best not to use it. Cheers though.
nikki
On Jul 15, 11:43 am, hellocatfood <bv3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just wondering, is this DIY Arudino hack session happening next week?
genzaichi
http://onecall.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1715487
Does anyone know a supplier with a similar unit price for 50 off?
(£2.43 +vat)
... or shall I order from Onecall and we just wait, assuming that
"awaiting delivery" is more hopeful than "out of stock"?
nikki
genzaichi
which is a bit more expensive.
In stock, free delivery (although coming from, I assume, the States,
hopefully no extra import charges).
I think we'd be looking at £4.50 for components
* chip
* socket
* voltage regulator
* led and resistor
* various capacitors and another resistor
* crystal
If people are ok with that then I can order the chips from mouser and
then the rest as planned from onecall.
nikki
On Jul 15, 10:02 pm, genzaichi <genzai...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Onecall are currently awaiting delivery of the ATMEGA328 chipshttp://onecall.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1715487
Andrew Thomas
If it's any help, I'm more than happy with £4.50. As it's so cheap, can I have two now?
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@googlemail.com>
Sent: 16 July 2010 13:09
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
nikki
--
Aaron Shrimpton
Cheers,
Aaron
genzaichi
*sits back and waits*
genzaichi
involve scenic routes to France and/or Germany...
I have the chip sockets, but wouldn't recommend anyone holds their
breath for getting parts for Wednesday :)
nikki
genzaichi
we're booked in to hold the session on the 18th of August (http://
wiki.fizzpop.org.uk/Themes). That's the next hack session!
A few people last night were asking me about programming the unit. I
was programming my chip on my Actual Arduino and then popping the chip
out and placing it in my homemade one, but I'm thinking some might
want to do it with the chip in situ. (Me too, probably!)
What options do we have?
I use an USB-BUB to programme my RBBB
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0038/9582/files/USB_BUB_instructions.02.pdf?1262060842,
so I guess the solution that works for me is to have 6 male headers in
a line that I can plug that into.
On the data sheet it shows these as being labelled DTR, RX, TX, 5V,
N.C and GND, but looking at my RBBB it looks like only RX, TX, 5V and
GND are connected. Can anyone else confirm this? I assume N.C. means
'not connected', what's DTR?
What would work for other people?
nikki
genzaichi
Hi Andrew,
The RBBB becomes powered by the USB when you connect it to the USB-BUB
to programme it.
The PCB diagram seems to show DTR as connected to something:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0038/9582/files/RBBBscreenshot_2_layers.png?1271986427
Suppose the way to find out is to try it!
nikki
On Sep 1 2007, 12:10 am, Andrew Thomas <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi Nikki,
>
> I think you'll find DTR isn't needed because you've got a serial bootloader Mostly I think DTR is used to toggle a microcontroller reset pin during in-circuit programming such as when burning the bootloader. If your arduino circuit has its own 5V power supply, you could probably get away with just GND/TX/RX for a header (or even a radio module of the right speed - 115200??).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
On Aug 5, 9:27 am, genzaichi <genzai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I now have all the basic components for the standalone Arduino and
> we're booked in to hold the session on the 18th of August (http://
> wiki.fizzpop.org.uk/Themes). That's the next hack session!
>
> A few people last night were asking me about programming the unit. I
> was programming my chip on my Actual Arduino and then popping the chip
> out and placing it in my homemade one, but I'm thinking some might
> want to do it with the chip in situ. (Me too, probably!)
>
> What options do we have?
>
Andrew Thomas
It's difficult to tell, but if the header is on the left, in the black rectangle, then I think DTR connects to the reset pin. Some serial modules do that, like the propellor chip where the DTR line tells it that a program is being sent over serial. I don't think that's the case for arduino bootloaders though (?).
You're right, using four pins on a header is better as the usb-ttl module can be used to power the circuit, like in a full arduino. Some even provide 5V and 3.3V.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 05 August 2010 10:23
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Hi Andrew,
The RBBB becomes powered by the USB when you connect it to the USB-BUB
to programme it.
The PCB diagram seems to show DTR as connected to something:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0038/9582/files/RBBBscreenshot_2_layers.png?1271986427
Suppose the way to find out is to try it!
nikki
[The entire original message is not included]
G Bulmer
I had a look at the schematic for the RBBB at:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0038/9582/files/RBBB_Instructions_06.pdf?1260749296
and I believe I agree with Andrew and you !-)
On page 5 it shows the FTDI plug connections. I think following a
similar scheme will be safe.
RX, TX and GND must be connected
VCC (+5V) can be connected and will power the RBBB (very convenient)
The other signals were conceived for a dumb (1960's) terminal to talk
to a modem (if anyone remembers them), and vice versa, as part of the
RS-232 standard (see wikipedia for lots of detail, the FTDI supports
RTS, CTS, DTR, DSR, DCD and RI).
Nowadays, a bit of software on the host PC talks to the FTDI driver
software (which should be installed when installing the Arduino IDE).
That host PC software asks the driver to tell the FTDI chip to wiggle
one of those other control signals.
On an 'ordinary' Arduino, the signals that can be used to get an
automatic reset are RTS or DTR (http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/
Arduino-Diecimila-schematic.pdf)
On the USB_BUB schematic
Pin 6 (DTR) is connected via a capacitor (so it will give a pulse) to
RESET, enabling software on the host PC end of the connection to
control RESET for the human.
This is one of the two signals wiggled by the Arduino AVR program
loaders (avrdude). It's about a year since I looked at the signals in
detail, but I think RTS & DTR are wiggled (by host PC software) at the
same time, so USB_BUB should look the same as any other arduino-
friendly FTDI interface.
If folks don't connect the RESET to the DTR input, they'll have to
press the reset button themselves!
HTH - GB
On Aug 5, 10:23 am, genzaichi <genzai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> The RBBB becomes powered by the USB when you connect it to the USB-BUB
> to programme it.
>
genzaichi
No reset button in the components I've gathered :)
Really intended to be put into projects once all the prototyping has
been sorted...
nikki
> I had a look at the schematic for the RBBB at:http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0038/9582/files/RBBB_Instructions_06...
Andrew Thomas
I'm more than happy to reset just by toggling power. One of the reasons is that many people might use a usb-ttl module ready built. Very often they don't provide all the ftdi-capable signals. Dtr/tx/rx/gnd/5v/3.3v are normally the most you get, but most modules you get at robot sites, ebay, etc don't have a dtr connection.
I'll be looking forward to the building :-)
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 05 August 2010 22:26
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Thanks GB,
nikki
--
genzaichi
Would that still work (toggling the power) if the board's being
powered by the USB-BUB?
Can you do something like briefly connecting the reset pin to ground
or whatever?
Meanwhile, I've put a quick overview post up on the website so we've
got something to point people at. I'll do another one later that's a
bit more formal and tells people what they need to do/bring etc etc.
nikki
Andrew Thomas
As far as my limited experience knows toggling the power works as well as grounding the reset. It's just rebooting the boot loader, and I'm too lazy to do proper resetting. You're way is the proper way though, and less prone to problems most likely :-)
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 06 August 2010 16:09
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Would that still work (toggling the power) if the board's being
powered by the USB-BUB?
Can you do something like briefly connecting the reset pin to ground
or whatever?
Meanwhile, I've put a quick overview post up on the website so we've
got something to point people at. I'll do another one later that's a
bit more formal and tells people what they need to do/bring etc etc.
nikki
[The entire original message is not included]
genzaichi
connection ...which means Vista then has to find it again ...which
means the Arduino's been powered up for some time... :)
I had a load of feedback about a stripboard layout shown in one of the
photos on the blog post. I've had a stab at drawing a layout as I
would try it now.
http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DIYArduino1.jpg
Any feedback on the 100ohm resistor after the voltage regulator?
nikki
Andrew Thomas
Why do you have to pull the usb plug? If we're still talking about usb-ttl connectors wouldn't disconnecting at the header pins make life easier for vista?
I like the diagram :) If my brain is working, the 100 ohm resistor would limit the current to a maximum of 50mA, which would help disasters due to short circuits. It might make adding extra peripherals a problem without bypassing the resistor though.
Can I ask why there's a power wire to pins 20 and 21? Also, can I be (hopefully) constructively critical of the 330 ohm resistor on the led? It could use 10% of available current for small regulators, and reduce battery life, so I've always used a 1k resistor if I have a power led.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 07 August 2010 17:31
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
Just that for me, toggling the power means unplugging the USB
connection ...which means Vista then has to find it again ...which
means the Arduino's been powered up for some time... :)
I had a load of feedback about a stripboard layout shown in one of the
photos on the blog post. I've had a stab at drawing a layout as I
would try it now.
http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DIYArduino1.jpg
Any feedback on the 100ohm resistor after the voltage regulator?
nikki
[The entire original message is not included]
Andrew Thomas
genzaichi
> Why do you have to pull the usb plug? If we're still talking about usb-ttl connectors wouldn't disconnecting at the header pins make life easier for vista?
>
been talking about, so that may be the case.
> Can I ask why there's a power wire to pins 20 and 21?
# Pin 21 - AREF - Analog reference pin for ADC
# Pin 20 - AVcc - Suppply voltage for the ADC converter. Needs to be
connected to power if ADC isn't being used and to power via a low-pass
filter if it is (a low pass filter is a circuit that cleans out noise
from the power source, we aren't using one)
If not, the answer may have to be "because it says so on the ITP
Physical Computing tutorial" :)
http://itp.nyu.edu/physcomp/Tutorials/ArduinoBreadboard
(A few other sources too - not sure about the whys and wherefores,
just that it is.)
>I've always used a 1k resistor if I have a power led.
hold of more before the session. I haven't been using a power
indicator LED in practice, but I suppose they'd be useful for the
blink program to check we've got everything working, if nothing else!
By all means bring the diodes if you think they'll be useful.
I'm not really approaching this from the point of view of providing a
comprehensive kit, just I was able to get a better price on the basics
by buying in bulk and don't mind passing that on by letting people buy
in small quantities from me. (Same with my experience - passing on the
small quantities!) ;) My expectation is that people will build onto
the core components in different ways to suit their purpose...
Maybe at some stage we'll have reached the point where we've got an
actual kit of PCB and components that we can sell properly?
Does anyone have any spare headers that might be useful if people want
to make the daughter board GB mentioned?
http://groups.google.com/group/birmingham-hack-space/msg/fa87758418555f0d
Failing that, a link might be useful - I'm never sure what it is I'm
looking for with header stuff...
nikki
Andrew Thomas
OK, sorry, thought you were wanting feedback on a setup for beginners at the evening. Personally I wanted two so I could do a mini rtc based circuit and a low power one, so I'll be knocking up my own layout anyway.
If you want info on what Gary meant by header pins you could try:
http://wap.ebay.co.uk/Pages/ViewItem.aspx?aid=290461512260&sv=0.1 header pins&emvcc=0
I used to get them from Maplins, but they've stopped selling them. I probably wasn't very clear in my question btw. As far as I know (please correct any limitations in my knowledge here) the avr will default to the supply voltage as an aref, so you need the capacitor to prevent supply voltage noise affecting a2d readings. If you put the wire from 5v to aref you prevent use of a different external aref (which is useful for some analog inputs). The arduino ide allows for switching between supply voltage, 1v internal, and external, aref's.
Hope that helps :)
Best wishes,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: genzaichi <genz...@gmail.com>
Sent: 07 August 2010 22:35
To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
nikki
--
Bob Clough
Does this extract from the ITP Physical Computing tutorial help?
# Pin 21 - AREF - Analog reference pin for ADC
# Pin 20 - AVcc - Suppply voltage for the ADC converter. Needs to be
connected to power if ADC isn't being used and to power via a low-pass
filter if it is (a low pass filter is a circuit that cleans out noise
from the power source, we aren't using one)
G Bulmer
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/PCB-Interconnect/Single-row-PCB-sockets-2.54mm-pitch/180585
or
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/PCB-Interconnect/Single-row-sockets/76075
I think I only have a couple of spare right-angle headers. Id folks
are building on veroboard, then it is hard to replicate the broken
Arduino header layout. I made an adapter to plug into an Arduino from
veroboard using header pins and thin pliers, which works quite well.
I will bring my AVRISP II along for folks to program their chips.
Atmel's AVR studio is free, but only runs on windows. Also avrdude can
be used, but I've always been a lay-Z-boy and used AVR studio. We'll
need to make a little adapter to convert the 2x3 pin layout to a
breadboard friendly layout, but I don't think there is anything else
needed.
Garry
On Aug 7, 11:21 pm, Andrew Thomas <andrewmarktho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> OK, sorry, thought you were wanting feedback on a setup for beginners at the evening. Personally I wanted two so I could do a mini rtc based circuit and a low power one, so I'll be knocking up my own layout anyway.
>
> If you want info on what Gary meant by header pins you could try:
>
> I used to get them from Maplins, but they've stopped selling them. I probably wasn't very clear in my question btw. As far as I know (please correct any limitations in my knowledge here) the avr will default to the supply voltage as an aref, so you need the capacitor to prevent supply voltage noise affecting a2d readings. If you put the wire from 5v to aref you prevent use of a different external aref (which is useful for some analog inputs). The arduino ide allows for switching between supply voltage, 1v internal, and external, aref's.
>
> Hope that helps :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: genzaichi <genzai...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 07 August 2010 22:35
> To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> > Why do you have to pull the usb plug? If we're still talking about usb-ttl connectors wouldn't disconnecting at the header pins make life easier for vista?
>
> Have yet to actually *try* any of the programming header stuff we've
> been talking about, so that may be the case.
>
> > Can I ask why there's a power wire to pins 20 and 21?
>
> Does this extract from the ITP Physical Computing tutorial help?
>
> # Pin 21 - AREF - Analog reference pin for ADC
> # Pin 20 - AVcc - Suppply voltage for the ADC converter. Needs to be
> connected to power if ADC isn't being used and to power via a low-pass
> filter if it is (a low pass filter is a circuit that cleans out noise
> from the power source, we aren't using one)
>
> If not, the answer may have to be "because it says so on the ITP
> (A few other sources too - not sure about the whys and wherefores,
> just that it is.)
>
> >I've always used a 1k resistor if I have a power led.
>
> Sounds fair enough. 330 ohms is what I have, not sure if I can get
> hold of more before the session. I haven't been using a power
> indicator LED in practice, but I suppose they'd be useful for the
> blink program to check we've got everything working, if nothing else!
>
> By all means bring the diodes if you think they'll be useful.
> I'm not really approaching this from the point of view of providing a
> comprehensive kit, just I was able to get a better price on the basics
> by buying in bulk and don't mind passing that on by letting people buy
> in small quantities from me. (Same with my experience - passing on the
> small quantities!) ;) My expectation is that people will build onto
> the core components in different ways to suit their purpose...
>
> Maybe at some stage we'll have reached the point where we've got an
> actual kit of PCB and components that we can sell properly?
>
> Does anyone have any spare headers that might be useful if people want
Andrew Thomas
I now have a pack of 720 0.1" header pins, which is a little more than I need. If you want some for diy arduino stuff let me know.
Best wishes,
Andrew.
Andrew Thomas
Ahh, you want female headers. The ones I just offered are male as I thought they were needed for serial programming headers. I have some female ones, but could only spare a strip of about 30 (around 6 headers after cutting them up).
Is 2x3 needed for a board with a bootloader (I don't think it has tx and rx connections)? I plan 1x4 for a veroboard circuit. A 1x4 layout with male header pins makes it easy to use a standard motherboard connector cable for programming.
If the male header pins are needed they're still on offer.
G Bulmer
The 2x3 pin header is one of the standard (Atmel) programming
headers.
It's the 2x3 header on an Arduino, and connects to the SPI interface,
not the USART.
My AVRISP II has a cable which plugs on, and programs up a 'mindless'
chip. It isn't needed for a chip with a bootloader.
The 2x3 format is awkward for veroboard, and impossible for
breadboard, so I was thinking of making a little adapter to turn the
2x3 into a 1x4 or 1x6.
GB
>
> Is 2x3 needed for a board with a bootloader (I don't think it has tx and rx connections)? I plan 1x4 for a veroboard circuit. A 1x4 layout with male header pins makes it easy to use a standard motherboard connector cable for programming.
>
> If the male header pins are needed they're still on offer.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: G Bulmer <gbul...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 11 August 2010 18:27
> To: Birmingham Hack Space <birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
>
> orhttp://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/PCB...
genzaichi
them along too.
Broken Arduino header layout? Do they not align with a standard grid?
Noticed the strip of veroboard I was laying across for an ArduinoISP
daughterboard was a bit wonky. Useful! :-/
Can I make a request for you to bring your programmers in chaps? I'd
like to see what the different types are.
There's a bit of discussion about stripboard layout on the comments
for this blog post:
http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/hacksessions/themed-hacksessions-and-diy-arduino/
Wiki page for sign up etc is at:
http://wiki.fizzpop.org.uk/18-08-10_Hack_Session
nikki
Andrew Thomas
Thanks, those were sort of the same thoughts I had. I'm planning to make some mini arduino boards, so plan to dump the icsp in favour of just a serial header.
My other cunning plan is to make a bootloader programmer using one of Nikki's diyduino's after her themed evening. Perhaps I'll now be inspired to build the programmer on a proper eagle designed pcb :)
Don't feel pressured to do an eagle demo just cos I asked. I've installed eagle now and thanks to Dave have the sparkfun library installed too. Hopefully I'll find some time next week to play with it, and then try not to harrass you with questions next time I see you ;-)
Take care,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: G Bulmer <gbu...@gmail.com>
genzaichi
Tomorrow night, 6-10pm, basic components available from me for £4.50,
don't forget to bring breadboard or stripboard or equivalent to build
onto.
Wiki sing-up here: http://wiki.fizzpop.org.uk/18-08-10_Hack_Session
Blog posts here: http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/hacksessions/themed-hacksessions-and-diy-arduino/
http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/hacksessions/hack-session-wednesday-18th-august/
nikki
Adrian Beaumont
Regards, Ade.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birmingham Hack Space" group.
genzaichi
On Aug 17, 6:53 pm, Adrian Beaumont <ajbeaum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All - I hope to be attending tomorrow night, I can come straight from
> work so can be there for 6. I have added my name to the wiki for the kit and
> can bring some of my Arduino stuff too.
>
> Regards, Ade.
>
>
> > DIY Arduino reminder:
>
> > Tomorrow night, 6-10pm, basic components available from me for £4.50,
> > don't forget to bring breadboard or stripboard or equivalent to build
> > onto.
>
> > Wiki sing-up here:http://wiki.fizzpop.org.uk/18-08-10_Hack_Session
> > Blog posts here:
> >http://www.fizzpop.org.uk/hacksessions/hack-session-wednesday-18th-au...
> > nikki
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Birmingham Hack Space" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > birmingham...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
plai...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:17:30
To: Birmingham Hack Space<birmingham...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: birmingham...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [birmingham-hack-space] Re: Arduino Hack Session?
G Bulmer
the simpler frequency division ones?
A chum made a frequency division one (parts about £4), and he and his
Mum stood out in the back garden listening to them :-)
(note to self: I still need to make one with an Arduino).
GB
plai...@gmail.com
Looking on Wikipedia now it says that a large amount of DIY detectors are the heterodyne type, when I get home tomorrow I might try and find some schematics for this, it sounds like an interesting project.
Dave
Adrian Beaumont
GB - we discussed doing this on an Arduino but that was a while ago - I understand the new Arduino have better processors now (328?) which may help, failing that a slightly more expensive option might be to use a Maple Leaf - I only glanced at it but one of it's key strengths seems to be audio processing...
http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/
In any case, I have a contact at a local Bird of Prey centre who recently ran a "bat walk" using commercial detectors (that cost £100+ ) who has a clubhouse and very good camping facilities. It would be great to run a course to solder up some kits in the clubhouse then go out in the evening for a walk along the lane to check the bats out! (Did I mention he has a bar, too?!) FizzPop field trip, anyone?!
Ade.
G Bulmer
The next higher capability microcontroller (than Maple has), in the
STM32F103 family (STM32F103C) has three Analogue to Digital converters
(ADC) which are about 25-100x faster than an Arduino's, it also has
dual Digital to Analogue converters.
So, a thought (i.e. incoherent mumbling down the pub) was to use that
as a bat detector, and do down-sampling to make it audible, and also
try to recognise the bat's species. AFAIK, some species are quite
distinct in the frequency of their chirrups, so that might be
straightforward to do.
With a bit of SD memory, I think it could record chirrups for later
analysis too, which might be interesting and fun.
BTW - I have a Maple.
GB
On Aug 18, 9:29 am, Adrian Beaumont <ajbeaum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I will bring my (failed) version along tonight - it worked perfectly on
> breadboard and then went wrong when I moved it onto veroboard. It was the
> simple type with the crystal earpiece. I think my circuit skills failed me!
>
> GB - we discussed doing this on an Arduino but that was a while ago - I
> understand the new Arduino have better processors now (328?) which may help,
> failing that a slightly more expensive option might be to use a Maple Leaf -
> I only glanced at it but one of it's key strengths seems to be audio
> processing...
>
> http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/
>
> In any case, I have a contact at a local Bird of Prey centre who recently
> ran a "bat walk" using commercial detectors (that cost £100+ ) who has a
> clubhouse and very good camping facilities. It would be great to run a
> course to solder up some kits in the clubhouse then go out in the evening
> for a walk along the lane to check the bats out! (Did I mention he has a
> bar, too?!) FizzPop field trip, anyone?!
>
> Ade.
>