Processing chain 'game'

[Tigershungry]

Oh first discussion post!

I was talking with hellocatfood and others last Weds about an idea I
had batting around for a project crossing between layer tennis and
Steph Thirion's games mod workshop ( http://www.trsp.net/teaching/gamemod/).

With the basic idea being to start with a basic game code in
processing then over a period of time pass this along a chain of
people asking each to make X amount of changes to the code until you
get to the end and you have this evolution of the original game/
interactive design (as well as the many interations of the code from A-
B)

At the moment there's quite a few variables and thoughts I have around
this and need peoples help to bat ideas around with and run some trial
versions of the game before finalising an idea on a higher profile/
extensive version of the 'game'.

At the moment the key variables being,

- How many people should the code be passed around

- Over what time frame should this take place

- How 'over engineered' does the initial code need to be in order to
offer enough 'hooks' for non coders to interact with the code.

- Should the code be passed straight from 1-1 person or instead branch
this out as in 1-2-4-8 people

- What defines a change in the code- and how many changes should each
person be allowed to make

I'm sure there are other variables but at the moment these are the key
ones I can think of. As said I'm keen to run a trail version (either
during FizzPOP or over the intertubes) of this in several incarnations
to get a feel for how best to set this up - and for the time being
intend to use Thirion's original code (but will of course require
something new for a public run of the 'game')


Hope this all makes sense (I waffled on about it a bit more here..
http://www.tigershungry.co.uk/2009/08/processing-chain-game/ ) and any
volunteers and suggestions welcome.

[G Bulmer]

On Aug 20, 7:58 pm, Tigershungry <mariefouls...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Oh first discussion post!
>
> I was talking with hellocatfood and others last Weds about an idea I
> had batting around for a project crossing between layer tennis and

> Steph Thirion's games mod workshop (http://www.trsp.net/teaching/gamemod/).

> Hope this all makes sense (I waffled on about it a bit more here..http://www.tigershungry.co.uk/2009/08/processing-chain-game/) and any
> volunteers and suggestions welcome.

Steph Thirion's game is very well thought out. I am very, very
impressed by the results. It's new to me, so thank you for the link.

Is there a reason why you chose Processing?

Scratch is straightforward to get to grips with for non-programmers.
It solves the "syntax" problem, and some of the "what can I do"
problem of programming without being flow-charts (which I do not
like).

Scratch has been used successfully for many remixes of many things:
http://scratch.mit.edu/channel/remixed

One (which escapes me for now) started with a few seconds of music,
and each person added a bit more animation and looped the music. I
liked it :-)
Marble Racing is very popular with children.

At the risk of putting folks off, I should add, a friend at Warwick
University has done some work with school children and teachers. With
only a couple of minutes introduction, and a small pack of ``recipe
ideas" (little fragments showing how to do create specific effects),
8-10 year olds were successfully extending simple games in an
afternoon.

The Scratch web site already has support for sharing and remixing, so
you could do some experiments with a small amount of start-up effort.

The results at the web site don't look as polished as Steph Thirion's,
but please don't let that put you off; I think some of the look comes
from the simple tools used.

Just a thought,
GB

[nikki]

>
> - How many people should the code be passed around
>
> - Over what time frame should this take place
>

> - Should the code be passed straight from 1-1 person or instead branch
> this out as in 1-2-4-8 people
>
> - What defines a change in the code- and how many changes should each
> person be allowed to make
>

There's a lot of headology in those questions!
Give me a nudge at the next session and say "peer-to-peer sketchbook"
at me: I think you can probably learn a lot from mistakes I made with
http://npugh.co.uk/projects/p2p_sketchbooks

Perhaps look into memes as well and try and research what makes people
want to pass things on and not break the chain?

nikki

[Tigershungry]

Thanks for the heads up with Scratch. Looks like it is worth looking
into. The original reason I chose Processing was simply due to the
fact that Thirion had used it- and it seemed that it had the right
access for different levels- by being easy for new users but allowing
more advanced users to really take this a step further.

Also Nikki- yes please! I can't remember her name but the other
redheaded female was adding some interesting input about how to take
the project a bit further (e.g. Bump room) so hopefully we can put our
'red'heads together.

-Marie

On Aug 20, 9:06 pm, nikki <genzai...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > - How many people should the code be passed around
>
> > - Over what time frame should this take place
>
> > - Should the code be passed straight from 1-1 person or instead branch
> > this out as in 1-2-4-8 people
>
> > - What defines a change in the code- and how many changes should each
> > person be allowed to make
>
> There's a lot of headology in those questions!
> Give me a nudge at the next session and say "peer-to-peer sketchbook"

> at me: I think you can probably learn a lot from mistakes I made withhttp://npugh.co.uk/projects/p2p_sketchbooks

[Antonio Roberts]

> Is there a reason why you chose Processing?

I don't think there's any reason to exclusively use Processing, but
there's certainly a lot you can do with it. Just take a look at
Advanced Beauty for example http://advancedbeauty.org/blog/ I was
talking to a few others on the irc channel (#fizzpop on
irc.freenode.net) about it and they suggested pygame as well.

I personally want to use processing because it's somthing I want to
learn plus it's like java so can be ported to mobile devices too.

Ant

2009/8/20 G Bulmer <gbu...@gmail.com>:

[G Bulmer]

On Aug 20, 9:29 pm, Tigershungry <mariefouls...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up with Scratch. Looks like it is worth looking
> into. The original reason I chose Processing was simply due to the
> fact that Thirion had used it- and it seemed that it had the right
> access for different levels- by being easy for new users but allowing
> more advanced users to really take this a step further.

Processing can certainly go further in several directions than Scratch
at the moment.
There is a project to significantly enhance Scratch, but it won't be
released for a while.

I suggested Scratch because it is extremely accessible, has successful
remix examples, and infrastructure for sharing.
It also supports multiple 'characters' so it's feasible to create
characters (with their scripts) independently and bring them together
in a scene, which may suggest an approach to chaining to multiple
people simultaneously.

[Tigershungry]

Just using the term 'game' in a general sense (and it feels more
accessible for a wider audience)- but as the 'game' progresses it
would as you say be more 'generative art'/ interactive art. As you can
see from Thiron's code its based on a simple game premise- but doesnt
have goals/ death/ perils etc and progresses more into just an
interactive space which is what i would see happening with the code as
it travels on.

Hmmmm- I do have likely participants but am looking to take this to a
wider audience with a bit of marketing and pestering (figure if you
have a few key people taking part it would bring in a wider audience).
I would love to see around 100 people but as said want to make sure
thats suitable, that I can get that many people, and if not I can then
scale back.

On 20 Aug, 22:06, Peter Oliver <groups.google....@mavit.org.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Tigershungry wrote:
> > With the basic idea being to start with a basic game code in
> > processing then over a period of time pass this along a chain of
> > people asking each to make X amount of changes to the code until you
> > get to the end and you have this evolution of the original game/
> > interactive design (as well as the many interations of the code from A-
> > B)
>

> Does it have to be a game, by the way?  A simple graphical hack (I believe
> people are calling this "generative art" nowadays) may be more amenable
> to tweaking: a broken game is unplayable, but a hacked hack is still a
> hack.  Something like the Qix screensaver may be suitable as a starting
> point:http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/screenshots/qix.jpg

>
> > - How many people should the code be passed around
>

> How many do you have? :-)  More generally, it probably makes more sense
> to try to tailor the idea around the likely participants rather than the
> other way around, so who is the audience that you have in mind?
>
> --
> Peter Oliver

[G Bulmer]

On Aug 20, 10:06 pm, Peter Oliver <groups.google....@mavit.org.uk>
wrote:
> ...

>
> Does it have to be a game, by the way?  A simple graphical hack (I believe
> people are calling this "generative art" nowadays) may be more amenable
> to tweaking: a broken game is unplayable, but a hacked hack is still a

> hack.  ...

I strongly agree, it is easier to focus on the graphic and not the
game part.

IMHO, that is part of the genius of Steph Thirion's 'game'. It is an
interactive animation which is simple, and hence can be bent in many
ways, and behaves mostly like a game. That's what made it so
impressive to me.

I have been trying to think of something approaching half as good, and
they all end up looking like it, or a version of 'snakes', or
minefield/battleships/submarines (maybe I spent too much time playing
paper-games at school :-).
Snakes (where a trail is left behind) might be an okay basis for an
interactive animation bcause:
1. it can run and be intriguing without human interaction, and
2. the snakes 'trail' could take on a life of its own, adding an extra
dimension.

The property of Steph Thirion's 'game' I keep coming back to is the
majority of the code draws, with very simple 'game rules'.

Several of the Scratch remixes show that off too, like the marble game
(the track is a distinct colour), so it is easy to create new tracks,
or the aquarium where new characters with new movements can be
introduced.
The Scratch remix (I haven't found yet), has a looped music track with
a simple distinct beat, so it is straightforward to synch with the
music from code.

GB

[hellocatfood]

Any progress been made on the chain game? I've just been practicing my
Processing skills a bit, so haven't got anything concrete.

I'm working on a rewrite of a game I made in actionscript years ago
that's a mixture of Pacman and asteroids http://www.hellocatfood.com/pminspace/pminspace.swf
As Pete mentioned it might be too rigid for the chain game, but could
always just have it be a straight-up asteroids clone and then work
from there.

Ant