Arduinos?

[Ptolom]

Speaking of Arduino workshops, might it be a good idea for Fizzpop to
buy several Arduinos for people who don't have one of their own to use?
They'd be easy to store, and having something for new people to tinker
with would be more involving than just laptops and chat.

[snim2]

It's a great idea, we just need to think about the logistics of how to pay for it. I know that other hackspaces have had bulk discounts from supportive suppliers, so that would help. 

Regards,

Sarah

[G Bulmer]

I'll donate an old Arduino Diecimila
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDiecimila

when fizzPop buy its first one ... so then there'll be two

GB

[Thomas Hodson]

I've also got a diecimila lying around that I'd like to donate. What about making some up on breadboards, they'd be far more hackable and probably cheaper.

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[Andrew Thomas]

Hi Thomas,

Sounds a nice idea :-) Nikki Pugh did a stripboard-duino type workshop (before you started coming so you probably don't know her). The price was around a fiver so quite cheap and easily done on a breadboard, and 5V regulators are cheap. The downside is that an ftdi-usb adaptor is useful to program and communicate with them, but I'm happy to donate one if we do it (and do a little workshop on how to do it if wanted). It's also a nice way for people to go past just using proper arduinos and get into more hardcore electronics :-)

Best wishes,

Andrew.

[Thomas Hodson]

Hi Andrew,

There are some avr bootloaders that can bitbang the usb protocol, getting rid of the need for an ftdi chip altogether, may go against the 'it just works' mentality of the arduino a little bit though. Maybe Fizzpop should have it's own breadboarded arduino clone complete with a nicely re-skinned IDE. :)

--

[Andrew Thomas]

Hi Thomas,

Sounds a nice idea: the fizzpopduino :-)  In fact all it really means is to have some nice pcbs made with the logo silkscreened. Ftdi adaptors are as cheap as a fiver on ebay, so I'm too lazy to not use them ;-)

Best wishes,

Andrew.

[Adrian Godwin]

The Nanode used that approach (the fake USB) as a cost saver, but
there was very little interest in it. Most people end up using an FTDI
lead or a cheaper (eg pl2303) version.

The snag with it is that as well as making download slightly less
convenient (it can't do a remote reset), you lose the serial debug
console unless you add a load of bitbanged USB code to your arduino
application, and call it frequently enough to work. This is
unreasonable so it doesn't happen.

-adrian

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Andrew Thomas

[Thomas Hodson]

Yeah it's probably not worth the cost saving on the ftdi for the hassle of not being able to debug with the serial console and having to set a jumper to enable the bootloader.

Perhaps FizzPop's future funding should include branded merchandise. I'd certainly want a red arduino with the FizzPop logo silk screened into the board :P

[Andrew Thomas]

Hi,

It might be fun to try designing a stamp-sized atmega board using fritzing one fizzpop night. If it's small it should be relatively cheap to have some boards for a fizzpop soldering night :-)

Personally I try to avoid the cheaper usb-ttl adaptors when I can, because it's always a hassle getting them set up on windows (I never have trouble with linux though). Ftdi boards always seem to be easily recognised on windows and don't cost that much more.

Best wishes,

Andrew.

[Dave Nash]

Great idea Andrew, funnily enough this popped up yesterday in my feed:
http://code.google.com/p/smduino/

Dave

[Andrew Thomas]

Thanks, I haven't seen that before :-) I might have to buy one :-)  Btw, if anyone is interested in low power projects I hope to make a mosquino sometime.

http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/06/05/mosquino-an-arduino-based-energy-harvesting-development-board/

It's open source and makeable with through hole parts too. Not a cute as your find though :-)

Andrew.

[Dave Nash]

I've already registered interest, but he was expecting 50 for a
preorder, then he got Hackaday'd...

Any other 'branded' boards that we could make? How about a cheap AVR
programmer? Although it's application as an advert wouldn't be
particularly great, I'd still buy a hackerspace programmer over a
dodgy Chinese import.

Dave

[Andrew Thomas]

If you want to make a cheap usb programmer for atmegas the usbtiny is likely the cheapest and easiest.

http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/parts.html

I've got one but it's really more use for flashing arduino bootloaders as it can't be used for serial comms like an ftdi adaptor. Ftdi boards are not much more than a fiver on ebay from uk sellers, although I've never had a problem with ones I've bought from abroad.

Andrew.

[G Bulmer]

That is lovely - thank you.

We could probably get a similar PCB made, a bit bigger with more
normal through-hole pin for less than $1.

GB-)

On Mar 25, 10:43 pm, Dave Nash <plainn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great idea Andrew, funnily enough this popped up yesterday in my feed:http://code.google.com/p/smduino/
>
> Dave
>

[Dave Nash]

Seeedstudio offer ten 50*50mm boards for $9.90 last time I checked, I
figure if you REALLY optimised the layout you might be able to squeeze
four to a board, this cuts it down to around $0.25 per board which is
just ridiculous.
50*50 is their smallest size, but if you panelised the design over a
100*100 board, suddenly the boards are 15 cents each... That is
assuming you want to cut 160 separate boards out though! This doesn't
take shipping into account, but that's not going to be massive either.

If nothing's been done on this by the end of May I'll have a stab at
it; currently I'm swamped with partial differentiation and other
useful but complicated doodads. Back to the books.

Dave

[G Bulmer]

As folks probably know, the Arduino UNO has abandoned the FTDI chip.

Instead Arduino UNO use an Atmel USB microcontroller programmed to be
the USB<->Serial
(The part on the USB/Serial is a cousin to the Teensy
http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html)

We could make the USB portion of Arduino UNO, and use the Arduino
UNO's USB interface code. So highly likely to work.

That would give a USB upload, and a normal USB<-> serial
So ordinary Arduino debug should 'just work' (TM).

The Arduino folks have already designed the board:
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/USBSerial

It is 0.95" x 1.63", which I guess, should be about $1 in 20-off +
P&P

The parts should be under £5 (MCU, USB-socket, crystal, polyfuse and
about £1 of SMD parts).
That should look **exactly** like an UNO to the Arduino software. It
has the DTR pin, so it could do the auto-reset.
We should be able to 'toaster oven' it.

GB-)

On Mar 25, 10:57 pm, Dave Nash <plainn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've already registered interest, but he was expecting 50 for a
> preorder, then he got Hackaday'd...
>
> Any other 'branded' boards that we could make? How about a cheap AVR
> programmer? Although it's application as an advert wouldn't be
> particularly great, I'd still buy a hackerspace programmer over a
> dodgy Chinese import.
>
> Dave
>

> On 25 March 2012 22:50, Andrew Thomas <portablecomput...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks, I haven't seen that before :-) I might have to buy one :-)  Btw, if
> > anyone is interested in low power projects I hope to make a mosquino
> > sometime.
>

> >http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/06/05/mosquino-an-arduino-based-ene...

[Bill Bigge]

Perhaps FizzPop could be a bit more adventurous and combine G Bulmers
STM32 code with a re-skinned Maple IDE, and a board designed around the
STMicro ARM micros - or is would that turn into too big a project?

Bill

[G Bulmer]

Bill - INTERESTING!!-)

LeafLabs plan for the Maple IDE is to use the original Wiring (http://wiring.org.co/)

IDE which begat the Arduino IDE. They haven't moved yet, but the existing one can be made to work.

I'm happy with that. Writing Yet Another IDE seems like a job for collaboration.

The LeafLabs idea is to use the libraries ('language' and extra libraries) as the base too. 

An STM32 has a lot more flexibility than an Arduino, so there will be more options on the common 'language', for example an STM32 has both pull-up and pull-down resistors built in (so no need for an external resistor for a switch). 

There is an initial cut at the library at https://github.com/gbulmer/openstm32sw

I have an update, which needs a bit more thrashing, which runs some of ST's own STM32F4 projects (one I have not got working is a msic player which plugs into a USB flash drive, everything else is on board) 

There are designs for boards at https://github.com/gbulmer/openstm32hw

If folks want 'proper' hardware debug, it is quite cheap: 

http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/st-link-v2/programmer-icd-for-stm8-stm32/dp/1892523?Ntt=STLINK/V2

at £18.90+VAT

That gives USB upload, and also 'real' hardware debugging, with single step, break-points and the like

So rough, but doable. 

GB

On Monday, March 26, 2012 11:17:44 AM UTC+1, Bill Bigge wrote:

Perhaps FizzPop could be a bit more adventurous and combine G Bulmers
STM32 code with a re-skinned Maple IDE, and a board designed around the
STMicro ARM micros - or is would that turn into too big a project?

Bill

On 26/03/2012 11:11, G Bulmer wrote:
> As folks probably know, the Arduino UNO has abandoned the FTDI chip.
>
> Instead Arduino UNO use an Atmel USB microcontroller programmed to be
> the USB<->Serial
> (The part on the USB/Serial is a cousin to the Teensy
> http://www.pjrc.com/store/​teensy.html)
>
> We could make the USB portion of Arduino UNO, and use the Arduino
> UNO's USB interface code. So highly likely to work.
>
> That would give a USB upload, and a normal USB<->  serial
> So ordinary Arduino debug should 'just work' (TM).
>
> The Arduino folks have already designed the board:
> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/​USBSerial
>
> It is  0.95" x 1.63", which I guess, should be about $1 in 20-off +
> P&P
>

> The parts should be under �5 (MCU, USB-socket, crystal, polyfuse and
> about �1 of SMD parts).

[Bill Bigge]

I think that keeping the wiring IDE and just expanding the scope of
boards/MCU's it can target is a great idea - there is a danger that it
all gets too fragmented.

I am also keen to see some more comprehensive language support as well -
for example better config options for things like PWM - Arduino keeps
this stuff super simple whereas Wiring gives you slightly more.

I'm definitely keen on this idea - partly because I've got a load of
robotics projects on the go which would really benefit from a beefier
micro, but which offers the end user the plug in and go use-ability of
the Arduino.

Bill

> <http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html>)

> <http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/06/05/mosquino-an-arduino-based-ene.>..

> >>
> >>> It's open source and makeable with through hole parts too. Not
> a cute as
> >>> your find though :-)
> >>
> >>> Andrew.
> >>
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> >>> "Birmingham Hack Space" group.
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[G Bulmer]

Yes, I want to minimise time into IDE development, especially as the Wiring folks have said they want to support the community by doing that part.

Libraries, boards and projects are my focus.

Arduino/Wiring timer control is IMHO terrible once you try to go beyond simple PWM 'analogWrite'.

The STM32's have insanely flexible timers. They are one of the reasons I am such a fan.

Using timers to decode quadrature to track motion (for robots) is one of our favourite 'use cases'.

Timing external events is another.

Another extremely useful capability is the DMA controllers.

It could 'bit-bang' a TV picture without taking any processor time.

AFAIK that is not available from Maple/Wiring/Arduino language/libraries either.

So, lots of fun stuff to go at. 

If you are interested, you could lurk at the LeafLabs forum http://forums.leaflabs.com/ 

Garry

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