[Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'

[Pat OMalley]

Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black
Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit
presumptuous to assume we have naming rights!

Cheers

Pat
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au

[Tony Russell]

It's a JABIRU !

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM
To: birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'

Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black
Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit
presumptuous to assume we have naming rights!

Cheers

Pat
==========www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au

===========

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au

===============================

[Carl Clifford]

Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of
years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if
not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in
Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when
Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept
the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and
holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it.
Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why
it should be perpetuated.

Cheers,

Carl Clifford

[Paul Taylor]

As the old joke goes:
"Call it what you like! It doesn't matter, because it won't come anyway//."

A compromise might be to call it a "Jabaroo". It's distinct from the
South American "Jabiru", but close enough phonetically to satisfy those
that don't like "Black-necked Stork."

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
bir...@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Nikolas Haass]

Keep in mind that a large number of English bird names both in Australia and American are misnomers, because they were named by their superficial resemblance to European birds more familiar to the British people colonizing other continents.
Brushturkeys aren't turkeys, WW Choughs aren't choughs, Aussie Magpies aren't magpies, Old World Warblers, New World Warblers and Gerygones are unrelated taxonomic groups, robins aren't robins, chats aren't chats, flycatchers aren't flycatchers, treecreepers aren't treecreepers, wrens aren't wrens, songlarks aren't larks (but Old World Warblers!)...

Does it matter? Maybe not. But it can get quite complicated when you guide people from other continents who quite often get very confused...

Cheers,

Nikolas

----------------
Nikolas Haass
nha...@yahoo.com
Sydney, NSW

Cheers,

Carl Clifford

Cheers

Pat
==========www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)

[Chris Ross]

So what about Magpie?, officially Australian magpie, but shortened in
Aussie fashion to Magpie, there's plenty of other birds around the place
called Magpie.

Chris Ross

Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years.
People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not
thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and
it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on
the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got
there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you
go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the
name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated.

Cheers,

Carl Clifford

On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote:

It's a JABIRU !

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au <mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au>
[birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] <mailto:%5Bbirding-...@vicnet.net.au%5D> On Behalf Of Pat OMalley
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM
To: birdi...@vicnet.net.au <mailto:birdi...@vicnet.net.au>
Subject: Re 'Jabiru'

Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black
Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit
presumptuous to assume we have naming rights!

Cheers

Pat

===============================

[Peter Shute]

I guess they added "Australian" to Magpie to make it unique. I.e it might be wrong, but at least it's unique. That's a good example of a name that probably couldn't be changed, even the most pedantic among us would most likely ignore a new name for it.

We could always go with Australian Jabiru, or Australian Black-necked Stork. If that's too much of a mouthful then we could just change the name of the country to Straya - two less syllables, and that's how a lot of us pronounce it anyway. Stray'n Jabiru, what do you think?

Peter Shute

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Chris Ross
Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 8:40 AM
To: birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'

[Tony Russell]

Peter, it will get lost if it keeps Straya-ing all over the place.

Peter Shute

Chris Ross

Cheers,

Carl Clifford

Cheers

Pat

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com

[Tony Russell]

I know all that Carl, but I'm still calling it a Jabiru regardless. Just
the same as sparrows are Spoggies, Babblers are Jumping Jennies, and
Columbia livia are Feral Pigeons or roadhogs. So I'm stubborn, I can
wear that.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Clifford [mailto:carlsc...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:19 PM
To: Tony Russell
Cc: 'Pat OMalley'; birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'

[Carl Clifford]

I think you would find it difficult to convince an American birder
that a Black-faced Cuckoo-Shrike is a Blue-Jay

Carl Clifford

[Chris Ross]

Call it an Australian Jabiru and shorten the name in every day speech to
Jabiru as all good Aussies would do.

Chris Ross

> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3553 (20081024) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com

[Katrina Knight]

At 07:00 PM 11/19/2009 Carl Clifford wrote:
>I think you would find it difficult to convince an American
>birder that a Black-faced Cuckoo-Shrike is a Blue-Jay

I'm certainly not convinced. :-) For one thing, Black-faced
Cuckoo-shrikes are not blue, at least the ones I saw weren't.

It seems to me that the purpose of having standardized names is
to communicate with each other. Calling totally different birds
by the same name works fine on a local level where everyone is
sure of which species you mean, but it is increasingly
problematic on a bigger level. Thirty-some years ago when I
started birding, I never came into contact with birders outside
my little local area. Now I regularly communicate with people on
the far side of the world. I think it is good for each species
to have a unique standard name that we can all use to
communicate on a larger level but I see nothing wrong with also
referring to birds by other names on a more personal level. The
way I talk to my birding pals at home differs from the way I
talk to a larger group of people I don't necessarily know in a
variety of ways. Different situations call for different
standards of communicating. I find that many older names are
more interesting and descriptive than the standard names. In
North America, the people who assign names have been way too
fond of "Eastern", "Northern" and "American", none of which tell
me much about the bird in question or sound pleasing. "Jabiru"
is a more satisfying name than "Black-necked Stork" but to me,
it doesn't mean the bird in Australia. Whatever you call it,
seeing one was very satisfying for me. I'd love to have an
opportunity to see more of them.

--
Katrina Knight
kkn...@fastmail.fm
Reading, PA, USA

[Shirley Cook]

How about shrike-thrush that is neither a shrike nor a thrush - and adding
to "other names" I have a friend who hails from Melbourne who insists that
Yellow-rumped Thornbills are "Butter-bums"! Hmph!

Shirley Cook
Secretary/Treasurer
Birds Australia (Northern NSW)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

[Greg & Val Clancy]

Hi Chris,

The problem is that the species (or subspecies) also occurs in New Guinea so
it can't be Australian Jabiru and remember 'Jabiru' means 'swollen neck'
which is hardly suitable for our slender-necked species.

I received an email asking for more information on why the subspecies may be
considered for species status in the future. The writer also said please
don't say that it is based on DNA!!!

Well it is based on DNA. Tissue samples were analysed from two Black-necked
Storks, one an Australian bird and the other a captive bird believed to have
been from Asia. The genetic distances were apparently further apart than
those between some other stork species. The most likely conclusion that
could be made from this is that we have two species. Christidis and Boles
were going to split the species but decided to await further DNA analysis
before doing so. Hence the species was not split in the 2008 edition. I
hope that I have explained the genetics properly as it is not my field.

Greg Clancy
Coutts Crossing

[Tony Russell]

As we only get one of them in Oz does it really matter what we call it ?
As WS would have said "Much ado about nothing".

BTW, I heard the other day that someone is making shoes out of Cane Toad
skins. Wart on earth will they think of next !

T.

[Philip Veerman]

Surely their proper name is the Australian Black Satin-necked non-jabiru
Stork. (joke)

Why doesn't some book author take the initiative to rename some bird
groups to simpler things, like rename the Cuckoo-shrikes as Cush e.g.
"Black-faced Cush" and likewise invent other new names, so we can
dispense with all those silly names like "Cuckoo-shrike" (not a joke).
After all, names are just labels, why not have distinctive ones that
don't give wrong impressions.

Philip Veerman
24 Castley Circuit
Kambah ACT 2902

02 - 62314041

[Ross Macfarlane]

As everyone knows, it's a "bifcus"...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Veerman" <pvee...@pcug.org.au>
To: "'Tony Russell'" <prati...@esc.net.au>

[brian fleming]

Ross Macfarlane wrote:
> As everyone knows, it's a "bifcus"...
>

Once upon a time there was an ornithologist working on Cuckoo-shrikes
as a Family and he called them all Graybirds.
I assume he was American. Only problem, he found a Black Graybird
somewhere, no grey on it. Not a bad name generally though.
Or what is wrong with the generic Coracina? Easier to pronounce than
Gerygone. Meanwhile, I have known the BFCS as Bifcus since I was twelve.

Anthea Fleming

[Tony Russell]

I'm only twelve and I call them bifcus.
T.

[Shirley Cook]

...and Bifcus is in the Macquarie Dictionary.

Shirley Cook
Secretary/Treasurer
Birds Australia - Northern NSW Group

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.80/2523 - Release Date: 11/24/09
07:46:00

[Philip Veerman]

Problem is that "bifcus" is an abbreviation for just one species, it is
only the 'cus' that represents - rather clumsily - a group name in that
expression. Which is why I suggest "Cush" as a new group name, it being
derived from Cuckoo-shrike as the birds are not cuckoos or shrikes but
the name has been established, hence my suggestion to retain the link
but remove any suggestion of relatedness.

Philip Veerman
24 Castley Circuit
Kambah ACT 2902

02 - 62314041

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of brian fleming

Sent: Wednesday, 25 November 2009 5:06 PM
To: Birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus

[Jeff Davies]

Surely this thread has run its course by now.
I honestly don't believe that there will be an overwhelming show of hands to
start calling a Cuckoo-shrike a Cush, enough already.

Cheers Jeff.

[L&L Knight]

Jeff is right, it is time to stop waffling and start a systematic
approach to the issue of dodgy bird names.

I would say that the first step is to list bird groups that are
inappropriately named, such as robins, cuckoo-shrikes and magpies.

Regards, Laurie.

On 26/11/2009, at 11:29 AM, Jeff Davies wrote:

> Surely this thread has run its course by now.
> I honestly don't believe that there will be an overwhelming show of
> hands to
> start calling a Cuckoo-shrike a Cush, enough already.
>
> Cheers Jeff.
>

===============================

[Peter Shute]

Is a cuckoo-shrike inappropriately named? It's neither a cuckoo nor a shrike, but doesn't the addition of the hyphen create a new name that can be applied to a bird that's neither of those?

It might be a mouthful, but compare it to the German practice of creating new words just by joining words together, e.g. Einhandmotorkettensägenführerlehrgangsteilnahmebestätigung. (Someone might be having me on, but I'm led to believe that means chainsaw operator's certificate - One-man-motor-chain-saw-operator's-instruction-course-participating-certificate).

Peter Shute

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of L&L Knight
Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 12:46 PM
To: Birding-aus (E-mail)

[L&L Knight]

Yes, it is as inappropriate as stone curlew, which is used to refer to
birds that are neither curlews nor have strong affinities with stones.

Why ram the names of two groups of English species together to name an
unrelated group in Australia? Someone had the whit to come up with
new names like Whipbird, Wedgebill, and Honeyeater. If you want a
longer name, then of course you can use names like Spider-hunter.

Regards, Laurie.

[Nikolas Haass]

Almost, Peter!!!
One-HAND-motor-chain-saw-operator's-instruction-course-participating-certificate

Nikolas

----------------
Nikolas Haass
nha...@yahoo.com
Sydney, NSW

Peter Shute

Regards, Laurie.

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

==============================www.birding-aus.org

[Peter Shute]

Silly me for believing the first site Google listed.

[Carl Clifford]

The International Ornithological Congress (IOC), which is made up of
members from some 50 countries, has drawn up a list of "Recommended
English Names" for the worlds birds and it is available as hard copy,
"Birds of the World; Recommended English Names: Ed. Frank Gill &
Minturn Wright, pub. Princeton University Press and online at: http://www.worldbirdnames.org/
The on-line version is regularly up-dated. The IOC English names
list has come about after much debate and consensus by the members of
the congress, who repres

The IOC is made up of some 200 of the worlds most eminent
Ornithologists, the Australian representatives to the IOC are; Walter
Boles, William Buttemer and Michael Clarke and Australia is also
represented by Senior Members, Prof. Jiro Kikkawa, Dr. Ian Rowley and
Dr. Richard Schodde.

I admit that many English common names are confusing and
inappropriate, but as standardised names, everyone knows what they
are. Some though, do have a certain charm (the thought of seeing a
Festive Amazon (Amazona festiva), particularly if accompanied by a
pair of Parus major, makes me weak at the knees). There is a case for
many changes, so as to simplify and clarify common names, but it
should be done through the proper channels and with international
agreement. You can't just run off plucking names out of the air and
start using them willy-nilly. The state of English nomenclature is
confused enough as it is, no need to add to the confusion. If there
enough support for changing a common name, have it put up to the IOC
by one or more of our local representatives.

Cheers,

Carl Clifford

[Peter....@callista.com.au]

Someone sent a posting earlier in the year referencing a website that had
a bird name quiz. The aim of the quiz was to guess whether an indigenous
south american name was a bird name or not.
Without even knowing the lanaguage or the birdlife of south america, most
people could guess which was a bird name, because most of the bird names
intimated the call of the bird.
For example, if i asked you which of the following was a bird name, a
hoohoo or a grunup. Most people would guess hoohoo, and probably even
guess it was the name of an owl, because of the noise associated with
owls.
Big long names that dont intimate the call of the bird seem to loose their
social appeal..(black-faced cuckoo-shrike is the ultimate example, being a
very common bird australia-wide, yet only a very small percentage of the
population know its name). On the other end of the spectrum, one of the
most socially accepted birds in australia is the Kookaburra that says its
own name every morning!
So rather than a name suggesting a relationship to the food a species eats
(damn..i just saw a honeyeater eating a spider!!!), or a description of
its markings (wow..i just saw a lueciistic black honeyeater eating a
spider!), maybe a description of the call of the bird is the best
candidate for a name change???

L&L Knight <l.kn...@optusnet.com.au>
Sent by: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
26/11/2009 01:43 PM

To
Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>
cc
"Birding-aus \(E-mail\)" <birdi...@vicnet.net.au>
Subject
Re: [Birding-Aus] Identifying bird groups in need of a name changeim

Regards, Laurie.

==============================www.birding-aus.org

[David...@dpcd.vic.gov.au]

Nikolas

Did the operator have one hand before or after getting the certificate?

David

Nikolas Haass
<nha...@yahoo.com
> To
Sent by: Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>,
birding-aus-bounc L&L Knight
e...@vicnet.net.au <l.kn...@optusnet.com.au>,
"Birding-aus \(E-mail\)"
<birdi...@vicnet.net.au>
26/11/09 01:48 PM cc

Subject
Re: [Birding-Aus] Identifying bird

[Philip Veerman]

Oh you are right of course but if someone had come up with a unique, one
syllable word, as a group name for Coracina a century ago and it was in
the books and we were all familiar with it, we would be aghast at the
idea to suddenly start calling them Cuckoo-shrikes, if no one had heard
that term before! I am therefore a century late.

Philip Veerman
24 Castley Circuit
Kambah ACT 2902

02 - 62314041

-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Davies
[mailto:je...@jeffdavies.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 12:30
PM
To: 'Philip Veerman'; 'Birding-aus (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus]
Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus

Surely this thread has run its course by now.
I honestly don't believe that there will be an overwhelming show of
hands to start calling a Cuckoo-shrike a Cush, enough already.

Cheers Jeff.

-----Original Message----- From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 1:57 AM To: Birding-aus (E-mail)
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus

Problem is that "bifcus" is an abbreviation for just one species, it is
only the 'cus' that represents - rather clumsily - a group name in that
expression. Which is why I suggest "Cush" as a new group name, it being
derived from Cuckoo-shrike as the birds are not cuckoos or shrikes but
the name has been established, hence my suggestion to retain the link
but remove any suggestion of relatedness.

Philip Veerman
24 Castley Circuit
Kambah ACT 2902

02 - 62314041

[michael norris]

How about not talking about birds at all, just their names.

So let's have a go at Black Ducks - in NZ Grey Ducks!

"Singing" Honeyeater (did someone see one while a Spiny-cheeked HE was
singing nearby?).

Sorry - I mentioned some behaviour.

And Tawny Frogmouths !! They are grey. (I checked that last night when we
saw 2 young being fed by an adult at a local golf course when we were out on
a frog hunt with a scout group.)

Incidentally - sorry to be talking about birds - our Frogmouths seem to be
doing better than other indigenous birds. I wonder if nocturnal insects are
surviving the drought better than the diurnal ones.

Michael Norris

37° 59' S 145° 0' E

[Carl Clifford]

And they do not have a mouth like a frog, unless there are frogs with
beaks out there.

[Greg & Val Clancy]

Hi Michael,

'Tawny Frogmouth' is a shortened version of the original 'Tawny-shouldered
Frogmouth'. Although males are usually very grey they do have tawny brown
'shoulders' (wing coverts) and females tend to be overall browner or redder
than males.

Greg Clancy
Ecologist
Coutts Crossing

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Clifford" <carlsc...@gmail.com>
To: "michael norris" <meno...@ozemail.com.au>
Cc: "Birding-aus (E-mail)" <birdi...@vicnet.net.au>

Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus.....

And they do not have a mouth like a frog, unless there are frogs with
beaks out there.

On 26/11/2009, at 3:33 PM, michael norris wrote:

And Tawny Frogmouths !! They are grey. (I checked that last night
when we saw 2 young being fed by an adult at a local golf course when
we were out on a frog hunt with a scout group.)

Incidentally - sorry to be talking about birds - our Frogmouths seem
to be doing better than other indigenous birds. I wonder if nocturnal
insects are surviving the drought better than the diurnal ones.

Michael Norris

37° 59' S 145° 0' E

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message:
unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
===============================

==========www.birding-aus.org

[Peter Shute]

Greg, you call it "the original ..." - original according to whom?

All these names I'm hearing mentioned, I assume some are local names and some are "official" names. I'm interested to know how many authorities there are/have been for the various official names, and what they might be. I guess people might consider the BA checklist as official, and the names in the field guides. What other authorities are there?

Peter Shute

[Tony Russell]

True, more like John Howard's mouth actually.

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Carl Clifford
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:13 PM
To: michael norris
Cc: Birding-aus (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus.....

And they do not have a mouth like a frog, unless there are frogs with
beaks out there.

On 26/11/2009, at 3:33 PM, michael norris wrote:

And Tawny Frogmouths !! They are grey. (I checked that last night
when we saw 2 young being fed by an adult at a local golf course when
we were out on a frog hunt with a scout group.)

Incidentally - sorry to be talking about birds - our Frogmouths seem
to be doing better than other indigenous birds. I wonder if nocturnal
insects are surviving the drought better than the diurnal ones.

Michael Norris

37° 59' S 145° 0' E

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in
the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au ===============================

==========www.birding-aus.org

[Greg & Val Clancy]

Hi Peter,

I was using the term 'original' rather loosely but although my 1946 edition
of Cayley's 'What bird is that?' and my 1912 edition of 'An Australian bird
book' by Leach both refer to the species as 'Tawny Frogmouth' both give an
alternate common name of "Tawny-shouldered Frogmouth'. I read somewhere
that 'Tawny Frogmouth' was the shortened version of 'Tawny-shouldered
Frogmouth' and this makes a lot of sense.

[Dave Torr]

1995 I believe and then 2008. I think given the long period between editions
that both BA and BOCA may have done their own thing for a while - especially
on Albatrosses and I recall at one stage the BOCA list split Shrike-tits.

2009/11/26 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>

> Do you know when the first version of that was published, and what those
> organisations used before that?
>
> Peter Shute
>
>
> --------------------------
> Sent using BlackBerry
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: Dave Torr
> *To*: Peter Shute
> *Cc*: Greg & Val Clancy ; Carl Clifford ; michael norris ; Birding-aus
> (E-mail)
> *Sent*: Thu Nov 26 19:45:57 2009
>
> *Subject*: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus.....
> I guess the usual "official" list is the C&B one - which was adopted by BA
> and BOCA as far as I know. There is I guess no legislation that says this is
> really "officia"l but someone has to come up with a list and this is
> probably as good as it gets.
>
> 2009/11/26 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>

>
>> Greg, you call it "the original ..." - original according to whom?
>>
>> All these names I'm hearing mentioned, I assume some are local names and
>> some are "official" names. I'm interested to know how many authorities
>> there are/have been for the various official names, and what they might be.
>> I guess people might consider the BA checklist as official, and the names
>> in the field guides. What other authorities are there?
>>
>>
>

[Dave Torr]

I guess the usual "official" list is the C&B one - which was adopted by BA
and BOCA as far as I know. There is I guess no legislation that says this is
really "officia"l but someone has to come up with a list and this is
probably as good as it gets.

2009/11/26 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>

> Greg, you call it "the original ..." - original according to whom?

>
> All these names I'm hearing mentioned, I assume some are local names and
> some are "official" names. I'm interested to know how many authorities
> there are/have been for the various official names, and what they might be.
> I guess people might consider the BA checklist as official, and the names
> in the field guides. What other authorities are there?
>
>

[Peter Shute]

Do you know when the first version of that was published, and what those organisations used before that?

Peter Shute


--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry

________________________________
From: Dave Torr
To: Peter Shute
Cc: Greg & Val Clancy ; Carl Clifford ; michael norris ; Birding-aus (E-mail)
Sent: Thu Nov 26 19:45:57 2009
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' and Bifcus.....

I guess the usual "official" list is the C&B one - which was adopted by BA and BOCA as far as I know. There is I guess no legislation that says this is really "officia"l but someone has to come up with a list and this is probably as good as it gets.

2009/11/26 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au<mailto:psh...@nuw.org.au>>

[Tom and Mandy Wilson]

Laurie
The Bush Stone Curlew's European cousins, Stone Curlew (Burhinus
oedicnemus), certainly do have an affinity with stones, as I can attest
after spending 45 minutes at Weeting Heath in the Norfolk brecklands in the
UK in July this year trying to sort through the rocks, thistles and rabbits
that also occupy the field where the Stone Curlews nest each year (found 4 -
great views). See 2nd photo down on this page:
http://www.norfolkwildlifetrust.org.uk/news/nwt_weeting_heath_summer_diary__update
I'm interested that nobody has commented that Cuckoo-Shrikes probably got
their name because:
1 - they have a similar profile and flying style to cuckoos (easy,
undulating, with wings periodically closed); and
2 - (presumably) they do something that Shrikes do too, like hunting from
open perches or hovering to catch prey
So they got a name that covers a bit of both - seems pretty logical to me.
Cheers
Tom Wilson

----- Original Message -----
From: "L&L Knight" <l.kn...@optusnet.com.au>
To: "Peter Shute" <psh...@nuw.org.au>
Cc: "Birding-aus (E-mail)" <birdi...@vicnet.net.au>

Regards, Laurie.

==========www.birding-aus.org

[L&L Knight]

Strange we don't call Australian caterpillars pushmepullyous.

[Gemfyre]

I'm actually quite fond of the double-barrelled name cuckoo-shrike. It
suits the bird I think.

Belinda
Stirling W.A.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Shute" <psh...@nuw.org.au>

To: "L&L Knight" <l.kn...@optusnet.com.au>; "Birding-aus (E-mail)"
<birdi...@vicnet.net.au>

Peter Shute

Regards, Laurie.

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

==========www.birding-aus.org

[Michael Todd]

North's Nests and Eggs of Australian Birds (from around 1901) refer to
the Tawny Frogmouth as the Tawny-shouldered Podargus.

Cheers

Mick

> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.83/2528 - Release Date: 11/26/09 20:10:00
>
>

--

Michael Todd
PhD Candidate- Tasmanian Masked Owl
School of Zoology, University of Tasmania, Private Bag 05, Hobart, Tasmania 7001
Mobile: O458 394676
FAX: (03) 6226 2745
Wildlifing (www.wildlifing.smugmug.com)

[Syd Curtis]

Back home after a couple of weeks in hospital to find a bewildering
accumulation of emails re bird names. Can't be sure if I've absorbed all of
them, so my apologies if I'm repeating anything that has already been said.

Marvellous animal is Homo sapiens, distinguished from all others by having a
language that can convey such detailed information ... and everything that
has flowed from that.

And surely the primary purpose of a bird name is just that: to convey
information: to enable the reader or hearer to identify the bird named.

It seems to me that it is of little consequence if an Australian
communicating to an Australian uses "Magpie" for a bird that is in no way
related to northern hemisphere "magpies", if both know what species is being
talked about.

In writing, if there is likely to be any misunderstanding as to the precise
identity of a bird referred to by a vernacular name, simply add the
scientific name, and if there remains any possibility of taxonomic changes,
simply quote the source from which you took the name. Then anyone
sufficiently interested will be able to track it down.

If a word from an Aboriginal language is substituted for an existing English
word, this will confuse rather than inform and reference to the scientific
name would be essential.

Cheers

Syd

[Peter Shute]

Reading the stuff at www.worldbirdnames.org, it seems the IOC prefers to make as few changes as possible, probably for that reason.

Peter Shute

-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Syd Curtis
Sent: Friday, 27 November 2009 12:43 PM
To: Birding-aus (E-mail)