[Birding-Aus] blog for birding aus - birders behaving badly
Stuart Johnson
The advent of the net and the ability to communicate to a potentially unlimited audience in nanoseconds has allowed a welcome increase in the sharing of information on birds and their whereabouts. Finding birds particularly rare or unpredictable species has, really, never been easier. This in itself is a positive thing.
There is a downside. With an increase in the numbers of birwatchers comes an inevitable increase in the bird/birdwatcher interaction. There comes a point at which our actions begin to influence the behaviour of the animals we're watching, almost inevitably to their detriment. This is particularly so if our information leads us to a limited resource, food, water, nesting location to which the birds have no choice but to attend.
As intelligent and moral beings we have a responsibility to ensure that our actions do not place birds under any more stress than they already are. Birdwatching for us is something we do for enjoyment but the birds are involved in a very real struggle to survive.
Last week I travelled to Cunnamulla to see (amongst other things) the Flock Bronzewings. On arriving at the waterhole which they were using I was appalled to find a string of cars parked on the roadside right next to the waterhole and a group of birdwatchers standing even closer. On the open plain they'd have been visible for kilometres.
I get the feeling that Flock Bronzewings are edgy creatures at the best of times, especially given the number of raptors hanging around. But I can't imagine they'd be relaxed to see a whole pile of cars and people standing around waiting for them to come in.
When asked about how close the observers should be to the water an answer came back (my paraphrasing) 'as close as you like...... they have to drink'. To me this is placing an indulgent desire to get a premium look at a rare and edgy bird before the wellbeing of the animals.
I get no thrill out of looking at a bird that is obviously stressed by my presence, tick or no tick. Even in this age of unprecedented information there is still a great deal of satisfaction in having to wait for a really great sighting of a bird, and this is doubly so if, after such a wait, the sighting is of a bird relaxed and natural and either unaware or unconcerned by your presence.
I ask that all birdwatchers place the wellbeing of the birds as their foremost consideration.
stuart johnson
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Lorne Johnson
I think most of us are respectful to the needs of our rarer birds,
Stuart, don't assume the worst.
LJ
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Tim Dolby
Good comments, however, I think you are overstating the message about
bad birdwatching and birders.
>From my experience birdwatchers are almost always conservation minded,
being very aware of issues of environmental sensitivity. (Name me one
who isn't. Not on birding-aus though!) Occasionally, very occasionally,
a birder may overstep the line. However this over-stepping is often
totally insignificant when compared to the behaviour of any standard
non-birders (think of the situation with Hooded Plovers for example).
In a life-time of birdwatching I have only seen what I would describe as
bad behaviour by birders once or twice, and in one case, it was because
they thought they were being helpful.
What I see far more often is birders criticising other birders for not
being as 'conservation minded' as themselves. Furthermore this criticism
is often based on a series of negative perceptions rather than having
any basis in reality. (No reflexion on you Stuart.) You can even see
this type of miss-guided attitude in writing on the BOCA web site (sorry
about this BOCA) in the FAQ section, see:
http://www.birdobservers.org.au/FAQ_text.asp?key=18
The comments on this page are totally silly. (Once again, sorry about
this BOCA; no offence intended on this wonderful organisation. Also many
of the officials at BOCA would describe themselves as 'twitchers'.)
I'll use the example to the twitchathon (oh no... I hear the cry!). This
event attracts an enormous amount of undue criticism from birders,
despite the fact that it raises thousands of dollars annually for
conservation.
For example last year someone emailed me stating that they will be
"doing real conservation, a Hooded Plover count, not destroying the
environment by racing in a twitchathon!" (I get quite few of this type
of email each year.) This is despite the fact that money raised from the
twitchathon helps pay for Hooded Plover research - the same research
they were doing the count for. Also, despite that fact that the people
involved in the twitchathon are some of the most environmentally
conscience people on the planet, often working tirelessly for
ornithological conservation, research and education.
There seems to be an assumption that when twitchathon racers see a
Hooded Plover they run up to them and beat them over the head with their
binos! (as opposed to seeing them in a normal, environmentally
conscience birding way.)
Tim Dolby
-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Stuart Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2008 12:50 PM
To: birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: [Birding-Aus] blog for birding aus - birders behaving badly
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kbrandwood
it as quick as they can then on to the next one.
keith b the beautiful Hawkesbury 60km N/W of Sydney
Amen to that.
LJ
birders behaving badly
stuart johnson
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Dave Torr
and the need to protect birds. Some may act a little more "recklessly" than
others to see birds but they try in general to do the right thing - I know
many birds put lots of effort into conservation, surveys and other work that
benefits birds. And lets face it - if there were no birders (and other
groups interested in "nature") then it is unlikely that there would be as
many places that are preserved for birds and other fauna and flora.
But as you say Keith - some birders will do anything - they might as well be
collecting train numbers! I am a Birding Pal (www.birdingpal.org) and take
many people from around the world to the Western Treatment Plant at Werribee
- 99% are amazed at the place but I always recall the American lady who saw
an Orange-bellied Parrot there, ticked it off her list and immediately
wanted to move to the next bird!
2008/5/13 kbrandwood <kbran...@bigpond.com>:
Steve
next bird" a problem for the birds. At Cunnamulla You don't even need to get
out of your car to tick the Flock Bronzewings.
Steve Murray
Peter Shute
seeing? A bit shocking, buut it couldn't be considered to be
particularly damaging behaviour - not like tramping through OBP habitat
without regard for the birds that might be frightened off - the main
damage would be the petrol she used just to get a meaningless tick.
I'm interested to know if people consider that parking close to this
waterhole near Cunnamulla to see the Flock Bronzewings would be
detrimental to the birds or not.
Peter Shute
birding-a...@vicnet.net.au wrote on Tuesday, 13 May 2008 5:49 PM:
>But as you say Keith - some
> birders will do anything - they might as well be collecting
> train numbers! I am a Birding Pal (www.birdingpal.org) and
> take many people from around the world to the Western
> Treatment Plant at Werribee
> - 99% are amazed at the place but I always recall the
> American lady who saw an Orange-bellied Parrot there, ticked
> it off her list and immediately wanted to move to the next bird!
Dave Torr
move on......
Guess it is hard to answer your question without having been there. Let's
face it - most birding activities disturb birds to a certain extent (as do
an awful lot of non-birding activities - at least we are not likely to chop
down the forest, shoot the birds etc etc). I guess a bird is less likely to
feed or go to a waterhole if it sees there is potential danger there and if
hunger/thirst forces it to do so then it is likely to be more stressed as a
result. But how this can be measured and what a "safe distance" is would I
guess not be easy to ascertain.
I'm convinced that most birding activities do little long term harm and
since many people then translate their love of birds into trying to do
something positive (whether tree planting, lobbying governments, surveying
bird numbers etc) then I would argue that birding as a whole is beneficial
to birds and the environment.
2008/5/14 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>:
> Perhaps she simply didn't understand the significance of what she was
> seeing? A bit shocking, buut it couldn't be considered to be
> particularly damaging behaviour - not like tramping through OBP habitat
> without regard for the birds that might be frightened off - the main
> damage would be the petrol she used just to get a meaningless tick.
>
> I'm interested to know if people consider that parking close to this
> waterhole near Cunnamulla to see the Flock Bronzewings would be
> detrimental to the birds or not.
>
> Peter Shute
>
> birding-a...@vicnet.net.au wrote on Tuesday, 13 May 2008 5:49 PM:
>
> >But as you say Keith - some
> > birders will do anything - they might as well be collecting
> > train numbers! I am a Birding Pal (www.birdingpal.org) and
> > take many people from around the world to the Western
> > Treatment Plant at Werribee
> > - 99% are amazed at the place but I always recall the
> > American lady who saw an Orange-bellied Parrot there, ticked
> > it off her list and immediately wanted to move to the next bird!
>
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peter crow
where birds come to drink is very inconsiderate at least and plain
stupid at best.
Birds need to drink.
Birds are cautious when drinking as they are a bit more vulnerable to
predators.
Being close to their drinking point does on of the following:
Makes them more nervous and hesitant to drink
Prevents them drinking now and causing them to come back later.
Causes them to forgo today's drink.
Causes them to move to another area where they can find a "safe"
place to drink.
In summary:
Give all birds plenty of room to do their thing be it drinking or
whatever.
Be a responsible and ethical birder.
Peter
On 14/05/2008, at 8:50 AM, Peter Shute wrote:
> Perhaps she simply didn't understand the significance of what she was
> seeing? A bit shocking, buut it couldn't be considered to be
> particularly damaging behaviour - not like tramping through OBP
> habitat
> without regard for the birds that might be frightened off - the main
> damage would be the petrol she used just to get a meaningless tick.
>
> I'm interested to know if people consider that parking close to this
> waterhole near Cunnamulla to see the Flock Bronzewings would be
> detrimental to the birds or not.
>
> Peter Shute
>
> bi
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Steve
in to drink, there are several. In any case they still come in to drink with
people about. Honestly, I think they are more concerned about the raptors
than the people. Nearly every time a large flock came in where I was, a
Brown Falcon would cut a swathe through their ranks and scatter the birds.
The birds are nervous, flighty, and stop to drink for a matter of seconds.
But I would be surprised if they didn't act like that all the time.
Cheers Steve Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter Shute
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2008 8:50 AM
To: Dave Torr; kbrandwood
Cc: Stuart Johnson; birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] blog for birding aus - birders behaving badly
Peter Shute
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jennif...@bigpond.com
This is an interesting string as three of us went to see the bronzwings last weekend.
I agree entirely with Stuart's sentiments and when we were there three cars, including mine, were parked on the road about 100 metres from where the birds were coming into drink at one particular water filled scrape. Eight people were present watching the birds.
When we were there cockatiels and finches were also coming into drink, as well as the bronzewings. The birds did not appear overly concerned with our presence and landed, drank and left after no more than one or two circuts of the water scrape; and some came straight in if birds were already drinking. They appeared to me to be taking no more than normal precautions against possible predators at the water.
I would also mention in this case - and in this case only as like Stuart I don't condone crowding any observed birds or animals at feeding or watering points - the scrape we were at was one of a string of scrapes at approximately 300 metre intervals along some kilometres of road. Any bird so wishing had, on that day, plenty of options if they felt uncomfortable using the scrape we were at.
This water supply condition will change fairly quickly though as the scrapes are drying up and soon only the larger ones will hold water; then there will be problems if people crowd a particular pool.
There is also the matter of the tone of language used in comments. Sometimes a person will give a flippant reply to what seems to be a silly question eg "how close can I go to the bird?". If the person asking the question is inexperienced, as some people where when we were there, then the person giving the answer may need to be a little thoughtful about what they say in case someone takes them literally eg "can I hand feed the crocodile?" "Of course you can, they have to eat, don't they?".
But, our trip was wonderful and the sight of a hundred or so of these special birds coming in to drink in the evening light was wonderful. And just about as good was to have two Black-breasted Buzzards circling about 15 metres above our car in a clear, bright-blue, Queensland sky as we headed south on Sunday.
All the best
Jen
---- Stuart Johnson <Stuart....@lands.nsw.gov.au> wrote:
> birders behaving badly
>
> The advent of the net and the ability to communicate to a potentially unlimited audience in nanoseconds has allowed a welcome increase in the sharing of information on birds and their whereabouts. Finding birds particularly rare or unpredictable species has, really, never been easier. This in itself is a positive thing.
>
> There is a downside. With an increase in the numbers of birwatchers comes an inevitable increase in the bird/birdwatcher interaction. There comes a point at which our actions begin to influence the behaviour of the animals we're watching, almost inevitably to their detriment. This is particularly so if our information leads us to a limited resource, food, water, nesting location to which the birds have no choice but to attend.
>
> As intelligent and moral beings we have a responsibility to ensure that our actions do not place birds under any more stress than they already are. Birdwatching for us is something we do for enjoyment but the birds are involved in a very real struggle to survive.
>
> Last week I travelled to Cunnamulla to see (amongst other things) the Flock Bronzewings. On arriving at the waterhole which they were using I was appalled to find a string of cars parked on the roadside right next to the waterhole and a group of birdwatchers standing even closer. On the open plain they'd have been visible for kilometres.
>
> I get the feeling that Flock Bronzewings are edgy creatures at the best of times, especially given the number of raptors hanging around. But I can't imagine they'd be relaxed to see a whole pile of cars and people standing around waiting for them to come in.
>
> When asked about how close the observers should be to the water an answer came back (my paraphrasing) 'as close as you like...... they have to drink'. To me this is placing an indulgent desire to get a premium look at a rare and edgy bird before the wellbeing of the animals.
>
> I get no thrill out of looking at a bird that is obviously stressed by my presence, tick or no tick. Even in this age of unprecedented information there is still a great deal of satisfaction in having to wait for a really great sighting of a bird, and this is doubly so if, after such a wait, the sighting is of a bird relaxed and natural and either unaware or unconcerned by your presence.
>
> I ask that all birdwatchers place the wellbeing of the birds as their foremost consideration.
>
> stuart johnson
>
>
>
> ***************************************************************
> This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender.
>
> Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of the Department of Lands.
>
> This email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
> ***************************************************************
>
> ==============================www.birding-aus.org
Peter Shute
anti-twitchers? Is it an attitude brought here from overseas, where
perhaps there are more of the naughtier twitchers? Or have some people
happened to have seen more bad behaviour here than Tim has? Or perhaps
there aren't that many anti-twitchers either, and it's just that they're
a bit vocal.
Peter Shute
Tim Dolby wrote on Tuesday, 13 May 2008 5:15 PM:
> In a life-time of birdwatching I have only seen what I would
> describe as bad behaviour by birders once or twice, and in
> one case, it was because they thought they were being helpful.
Lawrie Conole
discussion about birding ethics to a Salem twitch trial! Speaking as a
naturalist/birder/ornithologist/ecologist/etc. who keeps life lists (and
therefore, *ipso facto*, you can add part-time twitcher to that list), I've
seen plenty of thoughtless behaviour by birders in my 30+ years of birding -
and only some of that by twitchers. By this I mean things such as
inappropriate activity around nests, too many visits to other sensitive
locations, overuse of call playback, lack of discretion about who you tell
where the Red Goshawk nest is, and so on ... a kind of universal disregard
for, or lack of awareness of, the precautionary principle.
If twitchers turn up to a spot, look at the 'tick' for a few seconds and
then nick off, but do nothing else destructive, then surely the only
consequential outcome is a contribution to atmospheric carbon levels (and an
indirect impact on the biota in the long term - much like the impact most of
us have by lighting and heating our homes, etc.) ... and perhaps a rise in
the blood pressure of those who see twitching as the devil's work.
If a keen birder visits a nest site twice a day for a week and drives the
parents away, causing nesting failure, then the direct consequence is
obvious. No twitching involved, necessarily.
Twitchers or birders, pure as the driven snow or otherwise, please heed
Stuart's original and completely legitimate message to behave *thoughtfully
and ethically *when you're out there.
Twitching isn't the real issue - birders behaving badly, whether twitching
or not, is.
--
++++++++++++
Lawrie Conole
28 Reid Street
Northcote, VIC 3070
AUSTRALIA
lconole[at]gmail.com
0419 588 993
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kbrandwood
the patience to wait until the bird comes into sight they go in and flush
it. Others cant wait for a bird to lift its wings to see a critical ID point
they have to put the bird to flight.
Maybe name and shame could stop this practise.
Peter Shute
behaving "badly" is a twitcher. Given that there's at least a little
bit of twitcher in all(?) birders it's probably a bit difficult to tell
if someone is one just by looking at them.
So perhaps this blaming of twitchers is counter productive - it may
allow badly behaved non-twitchers to continue their behaviour, perhaps
without realising. But then again, some have indicated that bad
behaviour isn't that wide spread anyway.
Personally, I've occasionally wondered if I got a bit too close or
stayed a bit long, or whether the bird flew because of me or would have
flown anyway. We can only work out the safe limits by trial and error.
How do you define a twitcher anyway? By the distance they're prepared
to go or the amount of money they're prepared to spend to see new birds?
By the amount of time they spend looking at them when they do see them?
By the time it takes them to get to a recent sighting?
Peter Shute
birding-a...@vicnet.net.au wrote on Wednesday, 14 May 2008 3:06
PM:
> Twitching isn't the real issue - birders behaving badly,
> whether twitching or not, is.
Dave Torr
5000 people at one twitch in the UK! I think the derogatory connotations
come in when some birders seem concerned ONLY to get a new bird rather than
enjoying all birds.
2008/5/14 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>:
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Carl Clifford
Don't you mean Twitch trial?
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Lawrie Conole wrote:
> This conversation seems to have morphed (as they inevitably do) from a
> discussion about birding ethics to a Salem twitch trial!
>
Peter Shute
previously located rare bird".
If it only covers rare birds, then does that mean that a new birder,
going to great extremes to see previously located new birds that are
quite common, doesn't become a twitcher until he has run out of common
birds and starts on the rare ones?
Peter Shute
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Torr [mailto:davi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2008 4:11 PM
To: Peter Shute
Cc: Lawrie Conole; Birding Aus
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] re: blog for birding aus - birders behaving
badly
Wikipedia has a definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitcher#Twitching. 5000 people at one
twitch in the UK! I think the derogatory connotations come in when some
birders seem concerned ONLY to get a new bird rather than enjoying all
birds.
2008/5/14 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>:
I agree, and I wonder if perhaps we automatically assume that any birder
behaving "badly" is a twitcher. Given that there's at least a little
bit of twitcher in all(?) birders it's probably a bit difficult to tell
if someone is one just by looking at them.
So perhaps this blaming of twitchers is counter productive - it may
allow badly behaved non-twitchers to continue their behaviour, perhaps
without realising. But then again, some have indicated that bad
behaviour isn't that wide spread anyway.
Personally, I've occasionally wondered if I got a bit too close or
stayed a bit long, or whether the bird flew because of me or would have
flown anyway. We can only work out the safe limits by trial and error.
How do you define a twitcher anyway? By the distance they're prepared
to go or the amount of money they're prepared to spend to see new birds?
By the amount of time they spend looking at them when they do see them?
By the time it takes them to get to a recent sighting?
Dave Torr
are the guy who found it!) then you are not twitching?
2008/5/14 Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>:
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Ian May
How many of us would not be here if our parents believed in "the
precautionary principle". LOL
Seriously though, if impacts from twitching causes such alarm within our
fraternity, how do we justify and condone cannon netting and leg
flagging waders?
Regards
Ian
Lawrie Conole wrote:
L&L Knight
Tony Russell
to have gone. The borrow pits alongside the Mitchell Hwy, 20 - 60 km
north of Cunnamulla are now dry - at least they were on
Tuesday/Wednesday this week. We saw no Bronzewings on Tuesday afternoon
at all and just a few medium flocks on Wed morning. None on the ground,
but good close views as they flew past us.
Tony.
-----Original Message-----
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[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Stuart Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:20 PM
To: birdi...@vicnet.net.au
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