[Birding-Aus] Help with Shearwater ID
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Charles Nixon
Feb 7, 2010, 10:05:58 PM2/7/10
to birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Yesterday [Sunday Feb 7] I came across a fresh Shearwater carcase on the beach at Boat Harbour, near Kurnell. I did not have a bird book with me, and did not retrieve the carcase as I was in the middle of a longish walk with the Sydney Bush Walkers.
But I took details, confident of identifying it when I got home. But, not to be!
For starters, in general appearance it was blackish [above] and gleaming white [below]. White below, that is, except for an extremely thin black line on the trailing edge of the wing, and smudges [only] at wing shoulder and wing tip. AXILLARIES PURE WHITE: definitely not a Flutterer, let alone a Hutton's. White cheeks, up to the eye line, but not beyond. Bluish feet.
Length, stretched out, bill to tail tip, c.38 cm; wingspan, c. 90 cm. Curses! Up until this point I was sure, looking at the illustration in my Pizzey, that it was going to be a Little Shearwater. But it's too big.
[unless I was stretching its corpse out too aggressively!!!],
and Pizzey shows the Little as having white above the eye line.
Any suggestions?
Ted Nixon
Greenwich
C.E.V. Nixon
Birding NSW
NSW Bird Atlassers
22/4 Landenburg Place
Greenwich 2065
02 9460 8224
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com
But I took details, confident of identifying it when I got home. But, not to be!
For starters, in general appearance it was blackish [above] and gleaming white [below]. White below, that is, except for an extremely thin black line on the trailing edge of the wing, and smudges [only] at wing shoulder and wing tip. AXILLARIES PURE WHITE: definitely not a Flutterer, let alone a Hutton's. White cheeks, up to the eye line, but not beyond. Bluish feet.
Length, stretched out, bill to tail tip, c.38 cm; wingspan, c. 90 cm. Curses! Up until this point I was sure, looking at the illustration in my Pizzey, that it was going to be a Little Shearwater. But it's too big.
[unless I was stretching its corpse out too aggressively!!!],
and Pizzey shows the Little as having white above the eye line.
Any suggestions?
Ted Nixon
Greenwich
C.E.V. Nixon
Birding NSW
NSW Bird Atlassers
22/4 Landenburg Place
Greenwich 2065
02 9460 8224
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com
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Mike Carter
Feb 8, 2010, 1:18:47 AM2/8/10
to Charles Nixon, birdi...@vicnet.net.au
Well Ted, you have me totally stumped. Description including bluish feet AND
white to eye but not above fits some 'Little Shearwaters'. Only thing that
doesn't fit is size. It is way too big! How did you measure it; with a rule,
callipers? Perhaps you wrote the figures down wrongly. Those dimensions make
it a big bird, larger than Fluttering Shearwater, almost the size of a Manx.
So the wingspan was just short of a metre! Thinking about it now was it
really that big? If so, then you have no choice. You must go back and
collect it! When we last met at Adele Island that would have been no problem
for you. You were fittest man in our group. Then you would have swam or ran
back to collect it without a second thought!
white to eye but not above fits some 'Little Shearwaters'. Only thing that
doesn't fit is size. It is way too big! How did you measure it; with a rule,
callipers? Perhaps you wrote the figures down wrongly. Those dimensions make
it a big bird, larger than Fluttering Shearwater, almost the size of a Manx.
So the wingspan was just short of a metre! Thinking about it now was it
really that big? If so, then you have no choice. You must go back and
collect it! When we last met at Adele Island that would have been no problem
for you. You were fittest man in our group. Then you would have swam or ran
back to collect it without a second thought!
Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza VIC 3930
Tel (03) 9787 7136
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Moorhead Family
Feb 8, 2010, 2:27:24 AM2/8/10
to Mike Carter, Birding Aus
Ted says 'Blackish'....I found a dead Buller's SW that was most obviously
very white underneath and appeared darker upperside (maybe because it was
dead?...I.E. the M didn't appear that obvious at first)....wingspan is about
right
Cheers,
Bill
very white underneath and appeared darker upperside (maybe because it was
dead?...I.E. the M didn't appear that obvious at first)....wingspan is about
right
Cheers,
Bill
Jeff Davies
Feb 8, 2010, 2:37:24 AM2/8/10
to Moorhead Family, Mike Carter, Birding Aus
I agree Bill, Buller's would be a very good fit on size and under-wing,
especially if the upper-parts were very worn which is not uncommon for birds
that die in poor condition.
especially if the upper-parts were very worn which is not uncommon for birds
that die in poor condition.
Cheers Jeff.
Chris Gregory
Feb 8, 2010, 4:50:19 AM2/8/10
to Birding Aus
But what about the feet? Buller's are pink (S&D) or fleshy-white,tipped
black (Pizzey). This one had "bluish". Does feet colour change post mortem?
black (Pizzey). This one had "bluish". Does feet colour change post mortem?
Cheers Chris
Barry Hartley
Feb 8, 2010, 4:17:55 AM2/8/10
to Moorhead Family, Mike Carter, Birding Aus
When wet on the beach Buller's do look black across the wings.
Jeff Davies
Feb 8, 2010, 5:25:04 AM2/8/10
to Chris Gregory, Birding Aus
I strategically avoided that bit.
The descriptions you quote are inaccurate. Depends which side of the foot
you are looking at and they are definitely not just tipped black. The
outside half of foot and tarsus is entirely dark grey and the inside half is
pink. When in flight they look like they have two different coloured legs, a
dark grey near-side leg and pink leg and foot on the other. Not sure how
long it stays pink for after death.
Maybe Ted could give us some more clarity on this feature.
The descriptions you quote are inaccurate. Depends which side of the foot
you are looking at and they are definitely not just tipped black. The
outside half of foot and tarsus is entirely dark grey and the inside half is
pink. When in flight they look like they have two different coloured legs, a
dark grey near-side leg and pink leg and foot on the other. Not sure how
long it stays pink for after death.
Maybe Ted could give us some more clarity on this feature.
Mike Carter
Feb 8, 2010, 5:48:49 AM2/8/10
to Jeff Davies, Moorhead Family, Birding Aus
I thought of that knowing that dead Buller's have been mistaken for Little
Shearwater on appearance but I don't think that included foot colour (did
it?). Buller's don't have bluish feet. Moreover, Ted thinks he may have
stretched the specimen 'too aggressively' so his measurements should if
anything be on the large size. But his 38 cm long falls well short of
Buller's at 46 cm long and wingspan of 90 cm well short of Buller's at 98
cm.
Shearwater on appearance but I don't think that included foot colour (did
it?). Buller's don't have bluish feet. Moreover, Ted thinks he may have
stretched the specimen 'too aggressively' so his measurements should if
anything be on the large size. But his 38 cm long falls well short of
Buller's at 46 cm long and wingspan of 90 cm well short of Buller's at 98
cm.
Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza VIC 3930
Tel (03) 9787 7136
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Davies" <je...@jeffdavies.com.au>
To: "'Moorhead Family'" <moor...@bigpond.net.au>; "'Mike Carter'"
<ptero...@bigpond.com>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:37 PM
>I agree Bill, Buller's would be a very good fit on size and under-wing,
> especially if the upper-parts were very worn which is not uncommon for
> birds
> that die in poor condition.
>
Jeff Davies
Feb 8, 2010, 5:45:04 AM2/8/10
to Barry Hartley, Moorhead Family, Mike Carter, Birding Aus
Maybe you could elaborate Barry, remember we could be dealing with a worn
individual and thus far the carcass hasn't been described as being wet.
As some of the features are awkward for a Shearwater of the dimensions
quoted we are trying to find the best fit based on Ted's recollection, not
necessarily an accurate fit for all the features as described collectively.
individual and thus far the carcass hasn't been described as being wet.
As some of the features are awkward for a Shearwater of the dimensions
quoted we are trying to find the best fit based on Ted's recollection, not
necessarily an accurate fit for all the features as described collectively.
Cheers Jeff.
-----Original Message-----
From: birding-a...@vicnet.net.au
[mailto:birding-a...@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Barry Hartley
Sent: Monday, 8 February 2010 8:18 PM
To: Moorhead Family; Mike Carter
Cc: Birding Aus
Jeff Davies
Feb 8, 2010, 6:05:12 AM2/8/10
to Mike Carter, Moorhead Family, Birding Aus
Your right Mike, but none of the features add up to any known Shearwater so
we are really just having a bit of fun trying to find a best fit rather than
an absolute match. I don't think it would be a very fresh Little Shearwater
if he could manage those dimensions out of it, in fact it would look much
like a little Shearwater afterwards that's for sure. Some of his features
have to be wrong or inaccurate, the question is which ones, I suspect the
foot colour. It would be really useful if Ted put in a second appearance now
that he has heard some of the discussion.
we are really just having a bit of fun trying to find a best fit rather than
an absolute match. I don't think it would be a very fresh Little Shearwater
if he could manage those dimensions out of it, in fact it would look much
like a little Shearwater afterwards that's for sure. Some of his features
have to be wrong or inaccurate, the question is which ones, I suspect the
foot colour. It would be really useful if Ted put in a second appearance now
that he has heard some of the discussion.
Cheers Jeff.
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