Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told everyone about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them.
He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one seems to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So now that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, thus so giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
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As tourists love to hear stories like the Radjah Shelduck one guides sometimes embellish the facts and I doubt that there is any truth to it. It may be true that some species of birds 'mate for life' but once one bird dies the other one usually finds another mate. That is not to say that a certain amount of 'grief' doesn't occur. I know as a scientist that I shouldn't be talking this way but science's ideas about bird's intelligence and emotions are changing as time proceeds. I have studied Ospreys and Black-necked (Satin) Storks and have found that both of these species, while apparently 'mating for life' do find new partners in the event of a partner's death. Divorce, although rare, also does occur. HANZAB states re. the Radjah Shelduck "sustained monogamous; pair bonds probably lifelong."
----- Original Message ----- From: max...@iinet.net.au To: birding-...@vicnet.net.au Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 PM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Partners
Hi everyone,
Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told everyone about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them. He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one seems to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So now that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, thus so giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
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It is interesting on how we perceive the relationships of other species. Could it be that those particular birds the Guide talks about, actually did 'die of a broken heart'. I've observed guinea pigs fret or grieve to death at the lost of a partner. Humans have 'died of a broken heart' due to the loss of another;while not all guinea pigs or humans do so and do move on to find other partners. May be there could be a definite case of individuality in all species.
Rob
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Greg & Val Clancy <gcla...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> As tourists love to hear stories like the Radjah Shelduck one guides > sometimes embellish the facts and I doubt that there is any truth to it. It > may be true that some species of birds 'mate for life' but once one bird > dies the other one usually finds another mate. That is not to say that a > certain amount of 'grief' doesn't occur. I know as a scientist that I > shouldn't be talking this way but science's ideas about bird's intelligence > and emotions are changing as time proceeds. > I have studied Ospreys and Black-necked (Satin) Storks and have found that > both of these species, while apparently 'mating for life' do find new > partners in the event of a partner's death. Divorce, although rare, also > does occur. > HANZAB states re. the Radjah Shelduck "sustained monogamous; pair bonds > probably lifelong."
> Greg Clancy
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: max...@iinet.net.au > To: birding-...@vicnet.net.au > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 PM > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Partners
> Hi everyone,
> Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the > Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told everyone > about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them. > He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody > deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, > because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one seems > to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So now > that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, thus so > giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au
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I found Greg's comments that Osprey 'mate for life', interesting. I live in Nakusp, BC, Canada. We have a good population of local Osprey, that migrate to Central and South America in the winter. Migratory Osprey apparently do not mate for life. They migrate separately and appear to have no deliberate contact during the non-breeding season. In the spring, they return to their breeding territory. Since they are both returning to the same breeding territory, they often do 'continue' their relationship, simply because they are once again in close proximity. This is different to species like Canada Geese and Bald Eagles, that truly do mate for life and remain together all year round. Would I be correct in saying that the Ospreys in Australia are non-migratory? If so they certainly could remain together year round since they remain in the territory. The Osprey living in Florida are apparently non-migratory, but I'm not sure if they exhibit this 'mate for life' behaviour. I also understand that the Ospreys have recently been 'split' by some authorities. If the Aus species as now distinct from the NA species, perhaps this might explain these behavioural differences? Gary
Greg & Val Clancy <gcla...@tpg.com.au> wrote: Hi Max,
As tourists love to hear stories like the Radjah Shelduck one guides sometimes embellish the facts and I doubt that there is any truth to it. It may be true that some species of birds 'mate for life' but once one bird dies the other one usually finds another mate. That is not to say that a certain amount of 'grief' doesn't occur. I know as a scientist that I shouldn't be talking this way but science's ideas about bird's intelligence and emotions are changing as time proceeds. I have studied Ospreys and Black-necked (Satin) Storks and have found that both of these species, while apparently 'mating for life' do find new partners in the event of a partner's death. Divorce, although rare, also does occur. HANZAB states re. the Radjah Shelduck "sustained monogamous; pair bonds probably lifelong."
----- Original Message ----- From: max...@iinet.net.au To: birding-...@vicnet.net.au Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 PM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Partners
Hi everyone,
Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told everyone about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them. He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one seems to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So now that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, thus so giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
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There is also growing evidence that while certain bird species might "mate for life", that does not mean that they are faithful to their chosen partners. Infidelity is pretty common, even amongst bird species who pair only for the breeding season. There is a great segment in David Attenborough's "Life of Birds" discussing infidelity amongst Dunnocks in English gardens.
Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:13 AM, Robyn Charlton <westlakewr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is interesting on how we perceive the relationships of other species. > Could it be that those particular birds the Guide talks about, actually did > 'die of a broken heart'. I've observed guinea pigs fret or grieve to death > at the lost of a partner. Humans have 'died of a broken heart' due to the > loss of another;while not all guinea pigs or humans do so and do move on to > find other partners. May be there could be a definite case of > individuality > in all species.
> Rob
> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Greg & Val Clancy <gcla...@tpg.com.au> > wrote:
> > Hi Max,
> > As tourists love to hear stories like the Radjah Shelduck one guides > > sometimes embellish the facts and I doubt that there is any truth to it. > It > > may be true that some species of birds 'mate for life' but once one bird > > dies the other one usually finds another mate. That is not to say that a > > certain amount of 'grief' doesn't occur. I know as a scientist that I > > shouldn't be talking this way but science's ideas about bird's > intelligence > > and emotions are changing as time proceeds. > > I have studied Ospreys and Black-necked (Satin) Storks and have found > that > > both of these species, while apparently 'mating for life' do find new > > partners in the event of a partner's death. Divorce, although rare, also > > does occur. > > HANZAB states re. the Radjah Shelduck "sustained monogamous; pair bonds > > probably lifelong."
> > Greg Clancy
> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: max...@iinet.net.au > > To: birding-...@vicnet.net.au > > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 PM > > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Partners
> > Hi everyone,
> > Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the > > Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told > everyone > > about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them. > > He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody > > deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, > > because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one > seems > > to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So > now > > that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, thus > so > > giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au
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-- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio.
(I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.)
-- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com
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Yes, our Ospreys are non-migratory and stay together throughout the year. They were recently split and are now known as the Eastern Osprey Pandion cristatus. There are two other species, the American and European species. The split is published in Wink, M., Sauer-Gurth, H. and Witt, H-H (2004) 'Phylogenetic differentiation of the Osprey Pandion haliaetus inferred from nucleotide sequences of the mitochondrial cytochrome b gene.' In Raptors Worldwide (Editors RD Chancellor and B-U Meyburg) pp. 511-516. WWGBP/MME, Budapest.
The non-migratory nature of the Australasian species would likely lead to stronger pair bonding due to constant reinforcement. The evidence that our Ospreys pair for long periods, if not for life, is still scanty and it may be more flexible that it appears at present. Divorce is likely to occur if one bird of a pair doesn't meet its mate's expectations such as a male that I observed in New South Wales, Australia. He did not provision the female with enough food to allow her to breed and even attempted to mate with her after she had flown out and caught a large mullet for herself. He had been hit by a motor vehicle and rehabilitated so this may have reduced his ability to be a good mate. She apparently divorced him and successfully produced young with a new mate.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Davidson" <gs...@yahoo.ca> To: "birding-aus" <birding-...@vicnet.net.au> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:21 AM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Osprey (was Partners)
>I found Greg's comments that Osprey 'mate for life', interesting. I live >in Nakusp, BC, Canada. We have a good population of local Osprey, that >migrate to Central and South America in the winter. Migratory Osprey >apparently do not mate for life. They migrate separately and appear to >have no deliberate contact during the non-breeding season. In the spring, >they return to their breeding territory. Since they are both returning to >the same breeding territory, they often do 'continue' their relationship, >simply because they are once again in close proximity. This is different >to species like Canada Geese and Bald Eagles, that truly do mate for life >and remain together all year round. Would I be correct in saying that the >Ospreys in Australia are non-migratory? If so they certainly could remain >together year round since they remain in the territory. The Osprey living >in Florida are apparently non-migratory, but I'm not sure if they exhibit >this 'mate for life' > behaviour. I also understand that the Ospreys have recently been 'split' > by some authorities. If the Aus species as now distinct from the NA > species, perhaps this might explain these behavioural differences? > Gary
> Greg & Val Clancy <gcla...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > Hi Max,
> As tourists love to hear stories like the Radjah Shelduck one guides > sometimes embellish the facts and I doubt that there is any truth to it. > It may be true that some species of birds 'mate for life' but once one > bird dies the other one usually finds another mate. That is not to say > that a certain amount of 'grief' doesn't occur. I know as a scientist that > I shouldn't be talking this way but science's ideas about bird's > intelligence and emotions are changing as time proceeds. > I have studied Ospreys and Black-necked (Satin) Storks and have found that > both of these species, while apparently 'mating for life' do find new > partners in the event of a partner's death. Divorce, although rare, also > does occur. > HANZAB states re. the Radjah Shelduck "sustained monogamous; pair bonds > probably lifelong."
> Greg Clancy
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: max...@iinet.net.au > To: birding-...@vicnet.net.au > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 PM > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Partners
> Hi everyone,
> Do all waterfowl (Ducks in particular) pair for life? When I was in the > Kakadu NP, on a Yellow Waters afternoon boat tour. The guide told everyone > about Radjah Shelducks, $1000 Ducks as he called them. > He explained to us that he calls them $1000 Ducks because if somebody > deliberatly kills a Radjah Shelduck there is a $500 fine for it. Sadly, > because Radjah Shelducks pair for life, the mate dies. So far no one seems > to know why, but most people think it dies, mainly of a broken heart. So > now that both of the pair are dead the offender has to pay another $500, > thus so giving them the name of $1000 Ducks.
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au > =============================== > ==============================www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au > ==============================
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People project too much. Guys who are misogynists, sleep around, or have issues with pornography addiction are totally into the idea that male birds can't be faithful. But the facts show us that many birds are faithful for life. Lets not sully that with your own personal issues, thankyou. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com
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Could it be construed as 'projecting' to be WANTING birds to be 'faithful', when clearly many are not?
Granted, there is strong pair-bond fidelity in some, or perhaps many, species, but even in those species where there is pair fidelity for one or more seasons, research has shown that there is often also a high degree of cross-pair sexual interraction.
We might wish all birds were 'faithful', but it is just not so.
> People project too much. Guys who are misogynists, sleep around, > or have > issues with pornography addiction are totally into the idea that > male birds > can't be faithful. But the facts show us that many birds are > faithful for > life. Lets not sully that with your own personal issues, thankyou. > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-requ...@vicnet.net.au > ===============================
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I agree John; Many birds do not partner for life, and many do. I am only commenting on the way some men refuse believe that ANY birds are faithful. These people are typically projecting in my opinion.
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:48 PM, John Tongue <j...@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > Could it be construed as 'projecting' to be WANTING birds to be 'faithful', > when clearly many are not?
> Granted, there is strong pair-bond fidelity in some, or perhaps many, > species, but even in those species where there is pair fidelity for one or > more seasons, research has shown that there is often also a high degree of > cross-pair sexual interraction.
> We might wish all birds were 'faithful', but it is just not so.
> John Tongue > Ulverstone, Tas.
> On 18/05/2008, at 5:59 PM, Belinda Cassidy wrote:
> People project too much. Guys who are misogynists, sleep around, or have >> issues with pornography addiction are totally into the idea that male >> birds >> can't be faithful. But the facts show us that many birds are faithful for >> life. Lets not sully that with your ow
