GSoC-HTML 5 RTMP Client

[Sunil Tej]

Hi,

I'd like to work on the HTML 5 RTMP Client project.

Here's the link to my proposal.I'd be glad to get any feedback from
you.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddds7f4p_1df6p66cd

I couldn't find the IRC channel for BigBlueButton.I'd thankful if
anyone can help..

Thanks,
Sunil Tej

[Maciej Sawicki]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 23:00, Sunil Tej <suni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I couldn't find the IRC channel for BigBlueButton.I'd thankful if
> anyone can help..

Hi,
This: http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/ is BBB's "IRC" channel.

regards,
Maciej Sawicki

[Denis Zgonjanin]

Hi Sunil,

The proposal looks good overall, though the formatting is a bit off, but that could just be because of Google Docs. To give you some more ideas/suggestions of what the project idea you want to do is about, read this thread - it has some really good discussion content:

http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev/browse_thread/thread/723848ab21ad8733/945e7caaca8a110e

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[Sunil Tej]

Hi,

I have gone through the thread.I have read the http://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/
and http://dev.w3.org/html5/workers/

I think the best way to implement the idea is to we create a server
side application that acts as an intermediary between red5 and the
HTML5 client side.Then creating a backward compatible HMTL 5
client.But,then we would have to develop a plugin for the browser also
I suppose.

I'd interested in the meeting with some of the developers.That would
be a great idea as we can clearly picture out the entire working
model.

On Apr 6, 5:23 am, Denis Zgonjanin <me.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sunil,
>
> The proposal looks good overall, though the formatting is a bit off, but
> that could just be because of Google Docs. To give you some more
> ideas/suggestions of what the project idea you want to do is about, read

> this thread - it has some really good discussion content:http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev/browse_thread/thread...
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Maciej Sawicki <viroos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 23:00, Sunil Tej <sunilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I couldn't find the IRC channel for BigBlueButton.I'd thankful if
> > > anyone can help..
>
> > Hi,

> > This:http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/is BBB's "IRC" channel.

>
> > regards,
> > Maciej Sawicki
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

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[Denis Zgonjanin]

Hi Sunil,

Good thoughts. the app on the server side could be a red5 application, to further lessen the need for more networking to be done.

Could you please explain why you think you'd need a browser plugin to make this work?

If you want to meet with some of the developers, you can visit demo.bigbluebutton.org of devbuild.bigbluebutton.org. I'm unavailable until Thursday, but I'll try to be on both servers for much of the day from Thursday on. Other developers might be there however.

- Denis

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[Sunil Tej]

Here,I attach the link to my proposal that I uploaded to google..I'd
be happy go get some feedback.

http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/private/google/gsoc2010/suniltejs/t127061449469

Thanks,
Sunil

On Apr 6, 6:30 pm, Denis Zgonjanin <me.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sunil,
>

> Good thoughts. the app on the server side could be a red5 application, to
> further lessen the need for more networking to be done.
>
> Could you please explain why you think you'd need a browser plugin to make
> this work?
>
> If you want to meet with some of the developers, you can visit
> demo.bigbluebutton.org of devbuild.bigbluebutton.org. I'm unavailable until
> Thursday, but I'll try to be on both servers for much of the day from
> Thursday on. Other developers might be there however.
>
> - Denis
>

> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Sunil Tej <sunilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I have gone through the thread.I have read the
> >http://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/

> > andhttp://dev.w3.org/html5/workers/

>
> > I think the best way to implement the idea is to we create a server
> > side application that acts as an intermediary between red5 and the
> > HTML5 client side.Then creating a backward compatible HMTL 5
> > client.But,then we would have to develop a plugin for the browser also
> > I suppose.
>
> > I'd interested in the meeting with some of the developers.That would
> > be a great idea as we can clearly picture out the entire working
> > model.
>
> > On Apr 6, 5:23 am, Denis Zgonjanin <me.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Sunil,
>
> > > The proposal looks good overall, though the formatting is a bit off, but
> > > that could just be because of Google Docs. To give you some more
> > > ideas/suggestions of what the project idea you want to do is about, read
> > > this thread - it has some really good discussion content:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev/browse_thread/thread...
>
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Maciej Sawicki <viroos...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 23:00, Sunil Tej <sunilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I couldn't find the IRC channel for BigBlueButton.I'd thankful if
> > > > > anyone can help..
>
> > > > Hi,

> > > > This:http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/isBBB's "IRC" channel.

>
> > > > regards,
> > > > Maciej Sawicki
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "BigBlueButton-dev" group.
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[Denis Zgonjanin]

Hi Sunil,

Can you fix the formatting a bit for the project part of your proposal. It's a bit odd looking, it should be the same format as the rest of the document ideally. Plain text is just fine.

Also, try putting a bit more content and detail in the project proposal part - design, implementation ideas, etc... The more thought out your project proposal is, the better your chances are.

The rest of the proposal, including the timeline, looks good.

- Denis

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[SuperDuG]

http://github.com/gimite/web-socket-js

Why not make the flash client web-socket compatible?

Looks like the flash bridge would work perfectly in this regard.

http://jwebsocket.org/jws_for_all.htm

So we don't lose the reliance on flash out of the gate, but also don't
have to abandon it either and can still have the cross browser support
via flash.

node.js is a good project, but it seems as if the jwebsocket team is
gearing more towards what you all are looking for in the HTML5 client.

On Apr 6, 12:59 am, Sunil Tej <sunilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have gone through the thread.I have read thehttp://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/

> andhttp://dev.w3.org/html5/workers/

>
> I think the best way to implement the idea is to we create a server

> side application that acts as an intermediary between red5 and theHTML5client side.Then creating abackwardcompatible HMTL 5

> client.But,then we would have to develop a plugin for the browser also
> I suppose.
>
> I'd interested in the meeting with some of the developers.That would
> be a great idea as we can clearly picture out the entire working
> model.
>
> On Apr 6, 5:23 am, Denis Zgonjanin <me.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Sunil,
>
> > The proposal looks good overall, though the formatting is a bit off, but
> > that could just be because of Google Docs. To give you some more
> > ideas/suggestions of what the project idea you want to do is about, read
> > this thread - it has some really good discussion content:http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev/browse_thread/thread...
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Maciej Sawicki <viroos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 23:00, Sunil Tej <sunilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I couldn't find the IRC channel for BigBlueButton.I'd thankful if
> > > > anyone can help..
>
> > > Hi,

> > > This:http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/isBBB's "IRC" channel.

>
> > > regards,
> > > Maciej Sawicki
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "BigBlueButton-dev" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to bigblueb...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > > bigbluebutton-...@googlegroups.com<bigbluebutton-dev%2Bunsubscr i...@googlegroups.com>

[mumino]

firstly I think making flash client with web socket compatible is
totally different project. in future, it can happen but flash doesn't
need web socket. it has necessary abilities so imo making web socket
compatible flash client doesn't make big difference for BBB or any
other rtmp based project, just makes more problems in flash side.

[Doug "superdug" Smith]

Well my point is, that we don't need to make the websocket client
backwards compatible with the flash interface. Once we get closer to an
HTML5 only client, for browsers that don't "do" HTML5 completely, there
is still a cross platform solution.

[mumino]

many browsers haven't implemented html5 completely as you say. by the
time, they will implement. this is browsers' task. let them do it.
Also html5 client for BBB needs many more things than web sockets;
such as canvas, video codecs etc. so flash help to implement web
sockets only saves today. it doesn't help all needs of html5 client.
imo if a browser doesn't support html5, flash web sockets will not
make BBB html5 client work. because we need many more things from
html5 specification.

On Apr 11, 11:35 pm, "Doug \"superdug\" Smith" <super...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Walter Tak]

Imho we shouldn't worry about HTML 5. People who say that HTML 5 will 'kill
Flash have , imho , no idea what they are talking about. There is a bit more
about Flash than the fact that Flash is being used to play videos on Youtube
and displays (annoying) banner ads.

We should focus on usability and stability in BBB not focussing on possible
future challenges or competitors ;
I don't see anyone starting to develop a videoconference-tool in HTML 5. I
also don't see users of Flash and BBB suddenly upgrade their browsers to
Flashless-HTML-5 only-browsers and then demand a free upgrade of BBB from
Flash to HTML 5.

In case anyone might question my remark, think about this ; how will your
HTML 5 browser be able to access your webcam like Flash can...

Some food for thought borrowed from our neighbours ;
http://silverlighthack.com/post/2010/02/08/Top-Reasons-why-HTML-5-is-not-ready-to-replace-Silverlight.aspx

Perhaps webcam support will be in HTML 5, perhaps I'm wrong. If it will be
in HTML 5 then I don't hope it will take a few years to become common
knowledge as it took in the Flash community. Even now people don't know how
to properly use a webcam with Flash , nor with a (RTMP) socketserver so
imagine how long it will take before HTML 5 and (future) webcam-support will
be a serious contender.

By the time HTML 5 is common amongst users that typically use online
videoconference-sites then I think it's a safe bet to say that BBB will be a
very serious , full featured and broadly used videoconference-tool.

Regards,
Walter

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[Jeremy Thomerson]

I agree with Walter.  An HTML5 BBB client will (unfortunately) just be a play-toy for quite some time.  Look at how many companies still (very sadly) require IE6 browsers within the company.

Jeremy Thomerson

[mumino]

HTML5 BBB client will be a toy for quite time. This is totally another
problem. I just wanted to say: if we are trying to develop a html5
client(web user interface or rtmp client), we shouldn't use flash when
there isn't obligation. let browsers implement html5. of course don't
drop flash client development. but some big companies trying to make
html5 more popular and more powerful.

ie6 doesn't support html5 but check here: http://code.google.com/intl/tr-TR/chrome/chromeframe/
.. so I can see many good things in html5. one of the best, it is open
to everyone.

Regards,
-Mümin

On 12 Nisan, 08:22, Jeremy Thomerson <jeremythomer...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I agree with Walter.  An HTML5 BBB client will (unfortunately) just be a
> play-toy for quite some time.  Look at how many companies still (very sadly)
> require IE6 browsers within the company.
>
> Jeremy Thomerson
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Walter Tak <wal...@waltertak.com> wrote:
> > Imho we shouldn't worry about HTML 5. People who say that HTML 5 will 'kill
> > Flash have , imho , no idea what they are talking about. There is a bit more
> > about Flash than the fact that Flash is being used to play videos on Youtube
> > and displays (annoying) banner ads.
>
> > We should focus on usability and stability in BBB not focussing on possible
> > future challenges or competitors ;
> > I don't see anyone starting to develop a videoconference-tool in HTML 5. I
> > also don't see users of Flash and BBB suddenly upgrade their browsers to
> > Flashless-HTML-5 only-browsers and then demand a free upgrade of BBB from
> > Flash to HTML 5.
>
> > In case anyone might question my remark, think about this ; how will your
> > HTML 5 browser be able to access your webcam like Flash can...
>
> > Some food for thought borrowed from our neighbours ;

> >http://silverlighthack.com/post/2010/02/08/Top-Reasons-why-HTML-5-is-...

>
> > Perhaps webcam support will be in HTML 5, perhaps I'm wrong. If it will be
> > in HTML 5 then I don't hope it will take a few years to become common
> > knowledge as it took in the Flash community. Even now people don't know how
> > to properly use a webcam with Flash , nor with a (RTMP) socketserver so
> > imagine how long it will take before HTML 5 and (future) webcam-support will
> > be a serious contender.
>
> > By the time HTML 5 is common amongst users that typically use online
> > videoconference-sites then I think it's a safe bet to say that BBB will be a
> > very serious , full featured and broadly used videoconference-tool.
>
> > Regards,
> > Walter
>

> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "mumino" <oxygengu...@gmail.com>

> > bigbluebutton-...@googlegroups.com<bigbluebutton-dev%2Bunsubscr i...@googlegroups.com>

> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev?hl=en.
>
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[Fred Dixon]

Hi Everyone,

As you've seen in our forums, the work on HTML5 version of
BigBlueButton is a Google Summer of Code project. There's been a lot
of interest in this project, and we're hoping to get one or more
really smart students working on it.

Given the infancy of HTML5 and its support for webcams, we're not
expecting a fully formed working version of BigBlueButton. However,
we are expecting to learn a lot on the strengths/limitations of HTML5
and to see how far we can go with it today.

HTML5 is part of the future of the web, but we are firmly grounded in
the present version of the Web, and for multi-media web conferencing,
that's Flash. We have big plans for the Flash-based BigBlueButton
(pun intended), and those plans focus on extending the current
architecture to become a world-class application. We want to become
the mysql of the web conferencing market.

In the great tradition of Google Labs, think of the HTML5 project as a
BigBlueButton Labs project that will (hopefully) give one or more
students a very satisfying summer project and give us insight into how
we should evolve BigBlueButton so if/when HTML5 becomes a real option,
BigBlueButton will be in the forefront.

Regards,... Fred

P.S. By then, the IE 6 die-die-die movement will have finally
succeeded in reducing its usage to a low single percentage point.

[Doug "superdug" Smith]

When you can play quake in a browser without anything other than the
browser, you've caught my attention.

http://googlewebtoolkit.blogspot.com/2010/04/look-ma-no-plugin.html

If there's one thing I've learned in my short tenure on this list is
that things happen. I don't know how to put it other than "they just
happen". Not too long ago I was wondering how to get the list of
participants in a meeting currently in progress. I now have that API
call available to me. And I was able to move forward with my portal
project. Sure I was able to move on before that and I had looked at how
to grab the info out of the code, but the API makes it so much easier.

Right now I'm in the middle of building a pylons based portal kit. The
PHP one I built is horrible and I wouldn't publish that code out of
sheer embarrassment (good proof of concept though). The portal I'm
building will let users authenticate against, google, facebook, twitter,
or openid. Users can create conferences and invite others to join
them. There are a lot of sites that offer this kind of functionality,
but to my knowledge none of them provide the features of BBB and have
open sourced the code. The idea is to be somewhat like the grails app,
but to only use the API to interact.

On that note, does anyone know how to have an API created conference be
persistent?

>> -M�min

[Jeremy Thomerson]

Although this is really a separate thread-topic, the idea behind the API is that conferences in BBB are not persistent.  BBB (as in the core that we are currently building, including the API) should focus on just how to actual handle the conferencing, not session scheduling, etc.  

The scheduling (and therefore persistence) of conferences / meetings should be done in an outside app.  Of course, that outside app may at some point also be a separate module built by some of the BBB core contributors, it will be an add-on, not part of the core.

Jeremy Thomerson

[Walter Tak]

Yeah we , for example , have a webshop as frontend where we generate unique ID's for a single conference. Those ID's are stored in our seperate database.

 

A user has to log in in our frontend first (on a different server than BBB btw) and then can see his list of ID's that he bought. When he clicks on a unique ID an underwater API call (CURL) is being made to BBB and the conference will be created (api create) . After the creation the user will be redirected (api join) to the BBB server and can have his conference.

 

Meanwhile he can send invite URLS to his friends/collegues and those will be redirected using the same "api join" url to BBB.

 

Walter

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[Jeremy Thomerson]

We do very similar....