{BL} Re: Shifters - Bicycle Lifestyle

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Message from discussion {BL} Re: Shifters
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Cc: "bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com" <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
From: Marty Bernstein <centri...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: {BL} Re: Shifters
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 17:26:58 -0700
To: "bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com" <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>


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Or at least not in their hands.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:

> Yep, that's one of the great things about bikes and bicycling.  It's a hig=
hly individual thing, and each person can do what works best for him/her.
>=20
> I've always been fascinated at the different body proportions of riders.  P=
eople exactly the same height may have markedly different arm and leg length=
s and well as different torso dimensions.
>=20
> As one who can't buy long sleeved shirts or trousers without having them s=
hortened to accommodate my short arms and legs, I have found a custom fitted=
 bike to be a marvelous, if expensive, thing. =20
>=20
> As a side note, we now have a whole new bunch of riders who can't get off t=
heir cell phone while riding.  Of course, they hold their expensive new toy i=
n their dominant hand while "controlling" their bike tentatively with their n=
on dominant arm/hand.  So, not only is their physical control of the bike di=
minished for significant periods, but their mental concentration is on their=
 phone conversation and not on the road or the riders around them.  They sca=
re the heck out of me particularly on multi-use trails.
>=20
> If I could reinvent history, I'd make sure cell phones were not in the car=
ds.
>=20
> Dave
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com>
> To: bicyclelifestyle <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, Oct 27, 2012 2:38 pm
> Subject: Re: {BL} Re: Shifters
>=20
> On Sat, 2012-10-27 at 07:35 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> > It is my experience that wobbling is not so much a factor of having both=
 hands=20
> in a death grip on the handlebars but rather bike set up, load balance, an=
d=20
> rider position.=20
>=20
> And as I keep having to point out, although I do not understand why, not
> all rider positions are the same.  There are riders who -- even though
> they have well fitted bikes with properly positioned downtube levers --
> cannot reach those levers without bending down significantly at the
> waist. =20
>=20
> The higher the bar, the longer the reach; and not all arms are the same
> length, even the same proportion relative to torso.  It's amazing, given
> how much shorter the top tubes on all my bikes are than the seat tubes
> (generally ~ 57 cm top tube, 59-60cm seat tube) that there are plenty of
> riders who enjoy and fit right on square frames (59 cm top and seat
> tube), but I've no doubt at all that it's common, even the norm, among
> racers.
>=20
>=20
> > A rider on a well sorted bike maintaining good form should not be at ris=
k of=20
> losing control in the very brief time it takes to to lower a hand to DT sh=
ifters=20
> and complete a shift.  Sure, if you have to look, or lean awkwardly or som=
e=20
> other rookie mistake to shift, there may be problems.
> >=20
>=20
> Again, you are assuming that one can reach the downtube levers simply by
> "lowering your hand".  That's undoubtedly true for some riders,
> completely false for others, and not because they aren't "maintaining
> good form".  Some riders' hands won't be within six inches of the lever
> by just lowering it; they have to bend at the waist and reach way down.
> If you happen to hit a bump when you're doing that, it's quite easy to
> get jarred off balance.
>=20
> > Certainly a relatively skilled rider executing a quick shift is not gett=
ing=20
> out of riding position anywhere near as much as getting the water bottle a=
nd=20
> drinking, adjusting eye wear, stretching your arms, etc.
> >=20
>=20
> Yes, and there are plenty of skilled riders who have crashed when
> they've hit bumps when reaching for the water bottles.  The Governor of
> Virginia wrecked on railroad tracks during Bike Virginia a few years ago
> when reaching for his water bottle.  It happens.  It's easy to see how
> it happens.  It takes less concentration to accurately grab hold of a
> water bottle than to shift.
>=20
> If downtube levers work for you, great.  They look marvelous, and you
> can't find a cleaner way to route cables.  They don't work for
> everybody.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=20=

> "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
> To post to this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle+unsubscribe=
@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bicyc=
lelifestyle?hl=3Den.
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
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lelifestyle?hl=3Den.

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Or at least not in their hands.<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Oct 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, <a href="mailto:dwlucas62...@aol.com">dwlucas62...@aol.com</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font color="rgb(0, 0, 205)" size="4" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">Yep, that's one of the great things about bikes and bicycling. &nbsp;It's a highly individual thing, and each person can do what works best for him/her.</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">I've always been fascinated at the different body proportions of riders. &nbsp;People exactly the same height may have markedly different arm and leg lengths and well as different torso dimensions.</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">As one who can't buy long sleeved shirts or trousers without having them shortened to accommodate my short arms and legs, I have found a custom fitted bike to be a marvelous, if expensive, thing. &nbsp;</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">As a side note, we now have a whole new bunch of riders who can't get off their cell phone while riding. &nbsp;Of course, they hold their expensive new toy in their dominant hand while "controlling" their bike tentatively with their non dominant arm/hand. &nbsp;So, not only is their physical control of the bike diminished for significant periods, but their mental concentration is on their phone conversation and not on the road or the riders around them. &nbsp;They scare the heck out of me particularly on multi-use trails.</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">If I could reinvent history, I'd make sure cell phones were not in the cards.</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">Dave<br>
</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font><br>
<br>

<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Steve Palincsar &lt;<a href="mailto:palin...@his.com">palin...@his.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: bicyclelifestyle &lt;<a href="mailto:bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com">bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Oct 27, 2012 2:38 pm<br>
Subject: Re: {BL} Re: Shifters<br>
<br>







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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>On Sat, 2012-10-27 at 07:35 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
&gt; It is my experience that wobbling is not so much a factor of having both hands 
in a death grip on the handlebars but rather bike set up, load balance, and 
rider position. 

And as I keep having to point out, although I do not understand why, not
all rider positions are the same.  There are riders who -- even though
they have well fitted bikes with properly positioned downtube levers --
cannot reach those levers without bending down significantly at the
waist.  

The higher the bar, the longer the reach; and not all arms are the same
length, even the same proportion relative to torso.  It's amazing, given
how much shorter the top tubes on all my bikes are than the seat tubes
(generally ~ 57 cm top tube, 59-60cm seat tube) that there are plenty of
riders who enjoy and fit right on square frames (59 cm top and seat
tube), but I've no doubt at all that it's common, even the norm, among
racers.


&gt; A rider on a well sorted bike maintaining good form should not be at risk of 
losing control in the very brief time it takes to to lower a hand to DT shifters 
and complete a shift.  Sure, if you have to look, or lean awkwardly or some 
other rookie mistake to shift, there may be problems.
&gt; 

Again, you are assuming that one can reach the downtube levers simply by
"lowering your hand".  That's undoubtedly true for some riders,
completely false for others, and not because they aren't "maintaining
good form".  Some riders' hands won't be within six inches of the lever
by just lowering it; they have to bend at the waist and reach way down.
If you happen to hit a bump when you're doing that, it's quite easy to
get jarred off balance.

&gt; Certainly a relatively skilled rider executing a quick shift is not getting 
out of riding position anywhere near as much as getting the water bottle and 
drinking, adjusting eye wear, stretching your arms, etc.
&gt; 

Yes, and there are plenty of skilled riders who have crashed when
they've hit bumps when reaching for the water bottles.  The Governor of
Virginia wrecked on railroad tracks during Bike Virginia a few years ago
when reaching for his water bottle.  It happens.  It's easy to see how
it happens.  It takes less concentration to accurately grab hold of a
water bottle than to shift.

If downtube levers work for you, great.  They look marvelous, and you
can't find a cleaner way to route cables.  They don't work for
everybody.



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