Having never used bar end shifters, it isn't real clear to me what their advantages might be over downtube friction shifters (which I HAVE used for decades), other than the fact that with bar ends, in theory, your hands don't have to leave the bars.
 
I've never used road bike style brifters, either but have ridden many miles with DT (dual trigger?) Rapidfire-type shifters and I like them a lot, especially the Shimano ones (SRAM not so much because of lack of reliability).
 
I have also used single lever handlebar mounted shifters, both indexed and non, (the old mountain bike style) and I find those OK as well.
 
Like others in this group, I find that the simplicity & reliability of downtube friction shifters outweighs their inconvenience.

John Alldredge

Depending on your riding position, it may be a very long reach to get to
the downtube shifter, and quite easy to get to the bar end shifter.  

In reality, your hands don't have to leave the bars. I use bar ends on my
Big Dummy long bike and really appreciate the fact that I can shift from a
very stable position (I use WTB drop bars on my Dummy). Not to mention that
on many modern frames (including the Big Dummy) there are no downtube
braze-ons. Either find some good ol' thumb shifters or... bar ends!

I like the simplicity and efficiency of downtube shifters on my
randonneuring bike, but in a utility or touring bike situation the
convenience and potential safety of bar-ends are nice, advantageous, even
:-)

BykMor

I use these with Rivendell silver shifters:  http://retroshift.com/  I
couldn't be happier, they give me a position where I can shift and have
hands on the brakes, plus on long ride I do like to ride from the hoods, so
it makes shifting more convenient when you need it most.  I tried bar ends
(stock with my cross check) and didn't like them much.

I don't get why they call those "Retro Shifters" as there is nothing really
retro about them but they look cool. They look like sort of a better
thought out version of the Modolo Morpheus in that I bet the shifting from
the hoods is actually rather good.

I wonder if some of the newer barends that return to center position would
mount on those? That might make them a really good shifter

I remembered this thread yesterday as I simultaneously steered, shifted,
and signaled my way through an intersection during the evening commute.

I'll admit that it's a personal preference, and that I've never tried
brifters, but I currently own zero bikes without bar-end shifters.   I used
to have one bike with DTs but I ended up feeling so out of control on it
that I found another pair of Suntours bar-ends on Craigslist.

Hugh

I've used barends for about 40 years. I'm 6'3" and ist's a long way to
downtube shift levers.
Phil Brown

Hmm.  I'm much happier with my shifters up where my hands are, but this morning I adjusted my front disk brake while rolling.

On 2012-10-26, at 12:48 PM, Phil Brown <philcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

brifters, but I currently own zero bikes without bar-end shifters.  
on it that I found another pair of Suntours bar-ends on

Shifting preference is highly subjective, and people definitely should use
what they prefer.  That said,DT shifters making one feel out of control
seems quite stretch to me. I have happily used DT shifters for years and
can never once recall feeling even remotely out of control.

morning I adjusted my front disk brake while rolling.

But even with drops, most people keep their hands on the top of the bars.  
So for friction shifting wouldn't they mean one of those old Raleigh,
Schwinn, et al stem mounts?

On 2012-10-26, at 2:53 PM, Matthew J <matthewj...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's not what they mean.  Reaching for the end of a dropped bar is hardly the same as reaching for the downtube (or reaching for the front disk adjuster).

David

I'm an old guy and cut my teeth on downtube shifters.  For years after I went to other shifter locations, my arms and hands would just fall naturally to the down tube position.  The more traffic or weather stress I was under, the more readily my hands fell to their old familiar downtube position.

I've had or got them all I think.  My current stable includes twist shifters, downtube shifters, bar end shifters, thumb shifters and the all too common IMHO, brifters.  They all work fine for me, but when I had a custom Waterford built as the "last" bike I'd ever buy, I specified downtube shifters and went with Ultegra 9 speed.  It's perfect.

The one exception to my downtube preference was on my tandem.  That bike would often wander a bit if my usual stoker wasn't onboard, and I found that a firm grip on the drops was sometimes necessary to hold a good line on the road.  Being able to shift with my little finger while firmly grasping the bars made control of that tandem much easier.

So, once again, like chain lube, saddles, whiskey and wives.  Ya pick the one you like and go your merry way.

Dave

Depends on how much of a stretch it is for you to get to the downtube
levers, and that depends a lot on your frame size, arm length and riding
position.  If you like your bars at seat height, you will not be able to
reach the levers simply by dropping your arm, as your hand will be
several inches above the lever; you must also bend forward at the waist,
almost like you're reaching for a water bottle.  

Now if you happen to be doing that while you're riding over a bumpy
road, there's a real chance you could get jostled while you are
unbalanced, and may even come close to losing control, especially if you
have a load on the back of the bike.

I used to have a bike with downtube shifters.  First time I put a baby
seat on the bike and took my then-infant daughter for a ride, exactly
this happened to me.  

levers, and that depends a lot on your frame size, arm length and riding
position.  If you like your bars at seat height, you will not be able to
reach the levers simply by dropping your arm, as your hand will be
several inches above the lever; you must also bend forward at the waist,
almost like you're reaching for a water bottle. <

I have had nothing other than custom bikes for quite some time with
perfectly placed DT shifter bosses.  That said, the Raleigh, Trek,
Cannondale and Basso off the shelf bikes I've had over the years also had
wll placed bosses.  On none of these bikes did I need to adjust my body
position to shift.  Uncoordinated as I am, I can easily shift both front
and back ders with one hand at the same time.  Shifts take only a matter of
secons.

I'm down to 42 cm drops now.  In the past I've had the wide 46 Noodles
Rivendell sells.  Never timed it, but am quite sure the amount of time it
would takes for me to move my hand down and out from the drop to the end of
the bar as opposed to down and in for the DT.

Again, I could care less where other people have their shifters.  This
notion that DT shifters are a hazzard though in my experience is
exaggeration.

seat on the bike and took my then-infant daughter for a ride, exactly
this happened to me.  <

Seems to me this is more the case of a bike not designed for carrying
the load where it was located than a problem with shifter placement.

2nd this for street riding, anything that takes your hands off the bars
raises the possibility of a spill to some degree or another. Getting
surprised by traffic, having to jump several gears on a road in poor
condition, can be tricky on occasion. Been there done that, got wobblier
than I like on more than occasion. My preference is for twist grip
shifters, the ability to just grab a whole handful of gears at once is just
so nice. The Campy brifters are good for this too. But to each their own.

Kenny

Currently I have three bikes. A 2003 trek 7100 hybrid, a 1993 trek 1200 road bike (their middling high end road bike at the time this was after the disaster opus bonded aluminum and bonded aluminum carbon tube road bikes, and a mid 1980 khs, my last neat bike I wished I had was a custom built 1984 Ross mt Whitney.

Shifter types.....in order...indexed twist grip, indexed rear friction front down tube, friction down tube, friction stem shifter. All do their job fine. I am not a racer...and if I was..since there is no MONEY on the line until you are touring with the top dogs.....I would use what the bike came with.

Money hot air is spent bench racing then real racing...they all work. Most is a case of preference.

I just took the hybrid out on a few day in yosemite,
Mite valley after not using it much over the past year in favor of the 1200 which I love on the road. I did not once go for the down tubes to shift. After a week nthe trek 1200 I stopped trying to twist the bar tape to shift.

I like my whiskey from Islay and I like bourbon. Both very different and both have their place....and cognac is damned good too.( I am looking at a bike with bringers as a touring bike.). So relax kick back, join me for a spin in the am. Just ride!!!!!

I have 3 bikes with bar end shifters and one with down tube levers. They
all are set up for friction (lets you mix and match any brands, # of gears,
etc) and they all work fine. I can put a 6 speed free wheel or a 9 speed
free hub on the same bike and change nothing else, and it's ready to ride
(I do this, as a matter of fact. The 6 speed is set up with 1 1/2" tires
and the 9 speed has 28 mm). I used to have Shimano 105 STI brifters and
sometimes struggled to get the right shifting, especially if very tired and
grinding up a stiff climb. I see others in the boat as well. Brifters are
heavier for you weight weenies too.

Tailwinds

It is my experience that wobbling is not so much a factor of having both hands in a death grip on the handlebars but rather bike set up, load balance, and rider position.  

A rider on a well sorted bike maintaining good form should not be at risk of losing control in the very brief time it takes to to lower a hand to DT shifters and complete a shift.  Sure, if you have to look, or lean awkwardly or some other rookie mistake to shift, there may be problems.

Certainly a relatively skilled rider executing a quick shift is not getting out of riding position anywhere near as much as getting the water bottle and drinking, adjusting eye wear, stretching your arms, etc.

Here's my setup (see photo).  It may look like a bit of a distance, but I
have no problems shifting sans wobble.

WP_000514.jpg 76K Download

nice I have the same bike, but set up with barends.  I've been
wordering about using a quill stem shift adapter like this:
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sh15.htm

Anyone tried that?  It seems like a nice compromise between dt
shifters and barends.
This being said.  Coming from brifters I was sceptical at first, but
now I love them.  Very easy for me to setup and maintain too.

On 10/27/12, Andy M-S <marchantshap...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yah, I'm with Steve on this one. I recently decided to give Silver friction
DT shifters a go on my 62cm 650B Saluki, after a couple years with Campy
brifters. It'd been approximately 35 years (since university, that is)
since I'd ridden my Raleigh Comp with DT shifters, and I wanted to see if I
could do it. I liked the idea of the simplicity and elegance. I ride the
bike daily on my urban commute in rainy Seattle, which involves some
significantly pot-holed and bus-mushed streets and like everywhere else, a
decent percentage of clueless drivers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robharrison/7682504378/

It's been an interesting experiment. I shift a lot less. I like the look.
After a period of adaptation the wobble during shifting has *mostly*disappeared, but when I'm tired it comes back. With cars whizzing by too
close, the elegance doesn't seem worth the risk. It's a long way down from
my slightly-above-seat bars to the DT shifters on a 62cm 650b bike. I'm
going to go back to something closer, either the brifters, which were
great, bar ends (that worked well for me on my RB-T for 20 years) or maybe
those Retroshifters.

Rob in Seattle

And as I keep having to point out, although I do not understand why, not
all rider positions are the same.  There are riders who -- even though
they have well fitted bikes with properly positioned downtube levers --
cannot reach those levers without bending down significantly at the
waist.  

The higher the bar, the longer the reach; and not all arms are the same
length, even the same proportion relative to torso.  It's amazing, given
how much shorter the top tubes on all my bikes are than the seat tubes
(generally ~ 57 cm top tube, 59-60cm seat tube) that there are plenty of
riders who enjoy and fit right on square frames (59 cm top and seat
tube), but I've no doubt at all that it's common, even the norm, among
racers.

Again, you are assuming that one can reach the downtube levers simply by
"lowering your hand".  That's undoubtedly true for some riders,
completely false for others, and not because they aren't "maintaining
good form".  Some riders' hands won't be within six inches of the lever
by just lowering it; they have to bend at the waist and reach way down.
If you happen to hit a bump when you're doing that, it's quite easy to
get jarred off balance.

Yes, and there are plenty of skilled riders who have crashed when
they've hit bumps when reaching for the water bottles.  The Governor of
Virginia wrecked on railroad tracks during Bike Virginia a few years ago
when reaching for his water bottle.  It happens.  It's easy to see how
it happens.  It takes less concentration to accurately grab hold of a
water bottle than to shift.

If downtube levers work for you, great.  They look marvelous, and you
can't find a cleaner way to route cables.  They don't work for
everybody.

Yep, that's one of the great things about bikes and bicycling.  It's a highly individual thing, and each person can do what works best for him/her.

I've always been fascinated at the different body proportions of riders.  People exactly the same height may have markedly different arm and leg lengths and well as different torso dimensions.

As one who can't buy long sleeved shirts or trousers without having them shortened to accommodate my short arms and legs, I have found a custom fitted bike to be a marvelous, if expensive, thing.  

As a side note, we now have a whole new bunch of riders who can't get off their cell phone while riding.  Of course, they hold their expensive new toy in their dominant hand while "controlling" their bike tentatively with their non dominant arm/hand.  So, not only is their physical control of the bike diminished for significant periods, but their mental concentration is on their phone conversation and not on the road or the riders around them.  They scare the heck out of me particularly on multi-use trails.

If I could reinvent history, I'd make sure cell phones were not in the cards.

Dave

in a death grip on the handlebars but rather bike set up, load balance, and
rider position.

And as I keep having to point out, although I do not understand why, not
all rider positions are the same.  There are riders who -- even though
they have well fitted bikes with properly positioned downtube levers --
cannot reach those levers without bending down significantly at the
waist.  

The higher the bar, the longer the reach; and not all arms are the same
length, even the same proportion relative to torso.  It's amazing, given
how much shorter the top tubes on all my bikes are than the seat tubes
(generally ~ 57 cm top tube, 59-60cm seat tube) that there are plenty of
riders who enjoy and fit right on square frames (59 cm top and seat
tube), but I've no doubt at all that it's common, even the norm, among
racers.

losing control in the very brief time it takes to to lower a hand to DT shifters
and complete a shift.  Sure, if you have to look, or lean awkwardly or some
other rookie mistake to shift, there may be problems.

Again, you are assuming that one can reach the downtube levers simply by
"lowering your hand".  That's undoubtedly true for some riders,
completely false for others, and not because they aren't "maintaining
good form".  Some riders' hands won't be within six inches of the lever
by just lowering it; they have to bend at the waist and reach way down.
If you happen to hit a bump when you're doing that, it's quite easy to
get jarred off balance.

out of riding position anywhere near as much as getting the water bottle and
drinking, adjusting eye wear, stretching your arms, etc.

Yes, and there are plenty of skilled riders who have crashed when
they've hit bumps when reaching for the water bottles.  The Governor of
Virginia wrecked on railroad tracks during Bike Virginia a few years ago
when reaching for his water bottle.  It happens.  It's easy to see how
it happens.  It takes less concentration to accurately grab hold of a
water bottle than to shift.

If downtube levers work for you, great.  They look marvelous, and you
can't find a cleaner way to route cables.  They don't work for
everybody.

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On 2012-10-27, at 7:28 PM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:

Ride no hands, problem solved.

David

Ya, me too.  Fortunately they ride faster than I so their usually gone.  What a bunch of .. . . Bananas.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 27, 2012, at 4:34 PM, David Chase <dr2ch...@gmail.com> wrote: