On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian cow-hide differs.
And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a different saddle.
You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the saddle.
> On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
> I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian cow-hide differs.
> And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a different saddle.
> David
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I have a couple of Brooks saddles and some Selle Anatomicas too. If you
ride with the saddle nose tipped upwards (think pommel on a horse's saddle)
so that the wide area in back is flat for you to sit on, you won't make a
hammock sag, but will instead make two sitbone depressions. Some people
find a hammock shape very comfy though. And yes, you can tighten the
adjusting bolt to restore tension in the leather. No matter where you tilt
the nose, your seat area should be towards the rear of the saddle not the
center. That may be behind the results you see.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, alan lewis <drbaba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not
> tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts
> to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the
> saddle.
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 20:19 , David Chase wrote:
> > On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of
> you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the
> quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly,
> could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that
> I'm damaging the saddle?
> > I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a
> leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one
> effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come
> from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> > You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian
> cow-hide differs.
> > And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle
> ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that
> doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a
> different saddle.
> > David
> > --
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Yes. For Brooks the factory advice is to tighten no more than a
quarter-turn or so at a time, they may use the term "smidgeon" or something
similar. People have damaged Brooksies by too much tightening. I haven't
found loosening after tightening to restore the previous shape. This does
not mean it's been destroyed, just that it will be changed by tightening.
Selle Anatomicas, in contrast, are designed to actually be reshaped and
restored to normal by tightening and loosening.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:37 AM, alan lewis <drbaba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not
> tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts
> to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the
> saddle.
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 20:19 , David Chase wrote:
> > On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of
> you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the
> quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly,
> could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that
> I'm damaging the saddle?
> > I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a
> leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one
> effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come
> from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> > You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian
> cow-hide differs.
> > And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle
> ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that
> doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a
> different saddle.
> > David
> > --
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> Groups "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com.
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Yes, for either brand your bones want to be supported by the wide part of
the saddle without significant perineal pressure. If you are sitting the
saddle too far forward, your weight will be supported by the peri area, and
chafing, pain, and numbness will result.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Bruce Herbitter
<bruce.herbit...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I have a couple of Brooks saddles and some Selle Anatomicas too. If you
> ride with the saddle nose tipped upwards (think pommel on a horse's saddle)
> so that the wide area in back is flat for you to sit on, you won't make a
> hammock sag, but will instead make two sitbone depressions. Some people
> find a hammock shape very comfy though. And yes, you can tighten the
> adjusting bolt to restore tension in the leather. No matter where you tilt
> the nose, your seat area should be towards the rear of the saddle not the
> center. That may be behind the results you see.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, alan lewis <drbaba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not
>> tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts
>> to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the
>> saddle.
>> On Oct 1, 2012, at 20:19 , David Chase wrote:
>> > On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of
>> you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the
>> quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly,
>> could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that
>> I'm damaging the saddle?
>> > I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a
>> leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one
>> effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come
>> from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
>> > You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian
>> cow-hide differs.
>> > And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle
>> ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that
>> doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a
>> different saddle.
>> > David
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> bicyclelifestyle+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/bicyclelifestyle?hl=en.
>> --
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>> "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
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> --
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I have ridden Brooks saddles since 1971. I do believe that the thickness of the leather has gotten less over the years, but I don't have any of my old saddles to measure. My old saddles used to take a lot of work and miles to break in while the newer ones seem comfortable right out of the box. It may be a change in leather, a change in tanning, or a change in my weight. I'm heavier now, and saddles give a bit more than when I was lighter.
I have a tensioning wrench but have never used it on any of my saddles. I have however seen many saddles ruined by over tightening. Too much tension results in a ridge down the center which is very uncomfortable.
Old or new, if you take care of them they will last a long, long time. Don't over lubricate them and try to keep them from getting soaking wet. I've alway put Red Wing silicon shoe protector on the bottom of the saddles to protect it from water coming up from the rear wheel, and that has seemed to work well. I put three applications of the silicon protector on the bottom of all new leather saddles, and water just beads and runs off. Works the same way on your leather shoes. You can get it in liquid and in spray form.
As others have noted, you may need to point the tip of a Brooks saddle up a bit to keep your sit bones in the correct position on the widest part of the saddle.
I honestly can't imagine how your riding position could end up damaging the saddle unless you are sitting fairly upright and your weight is over the narrow nose of the saddle. But that would hurt way too much to be considered "ideal"; so, I'm sure you're not doing that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Freeman <kenfreeman...@gmail.com>
To: bicyclelifestyle <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 7:47 am
Subject: Re: {BL} Non sequiturs: FS Ibex coat and a query about the leather quality of contemporary Brooks saddles
Yes, for either brand your bones want to be supported by the wide part of the saddle without significant perineal pressure. If you are sitting the saddle too far forward, your weight will be supported by the peri area, and chafing, pain, and numbness will result.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Bruce Herbitter <bruce.herbit...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a couple of Brooks saddles and some Selle Anatomicas too. If you ride with the saddle nose tipped upwards (think pommel on a horse's saddle) so that the wide area in back is flat for you to sit on, you won't make a hammock sag, but will instead make two sitbone depressions. Some people find a hammock shape very comfy though. And yes, you can tighten the adjusting bolt to restore tension in the leather. No matter where you tilt the nose, your seat area should be towards the rear of the saddle not the center. That may be behind the results you see.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, alan lewis <drbaba...@gmail.com> wrote:
You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the saddle.
On Oct 1, 2012, at 20:19 , David Chase wrote:
> On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
> I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian cow-hide differs.
> And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a different saddle.
> David
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
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-- Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA
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> You can tighten it. It did come with the wrench to do that. I have not tried it myself, but my understanding was that when, over time, it starts to sag, that it can be tightened by turning the bolt on the nose of the saddle.
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 20:19 , David Chase wrote:
> > On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
> > I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> > You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian cow-hide differs.
> > And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a different saddle.
> > David
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bicycle Lifestyle" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bicyclelifestyle+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/bicyclelifestyle?hl=en.
On 2012-10-02, at 9:06 AM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:
> Old or new, if you take care of them they will last a long, long time. Don't over lubricate them and try to keep them from getting soaking wet.
Someone I know, don't recall who, claimed that you could reshape a stretched Brooks by relaxing the tension, getting it very wet, and letting it dry in approximately the shape that you wanted. I have not had the nerve (or the overly-stretched saddle) to test this advice.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:37 AM, David Chase <dr2ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-10-02, at 9:06 AM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:
> > Old or new, if you take care of them they will last a long, long time.
> Don't over lubricate them and try to keep them from getting soaking wet.
> Someone I know, don't recall who, claimed that you could reshape a
> stretched Brooks by relaxing the tension, getting it very wet, and letting
> it dry in approximately the shape that you wanted. I have not had the
> nerve (or the overly-stretched saddle) to test this advice.
> But I do work pretty hard to keep mine dry.
> David
> --
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I've been riding since I was 4 and am now 71. Two things that no two cyclists can ever agree on is: 1) what is the best chain lube, and 2) how to break in a Brooks saddle.
I've always closely followed Brook's advice on saddle break in and maintenance. I figure they know best about their own product.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Tilley <rltil...@gmail.com>
To: bicyclelifestyle <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 9:48 am
Subject: Re: {BL} Non sequiturs: FS Ibex coat and a query about the leather quality of contemporary Brooks saddles
Lon Haldeman breaks in his leather saddles by first soaking them in warm water:
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:37 AM, David Chase <dr2ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2012-10-02, at 9:06 AM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:
> Old or new, if you take care of them they will last a long, long time. Don't over lubricate them and try to keep them from getting soaking wet.
Someone I know, don't recall who, claimed that you could reshape a stretched Brooks by relaxing the tension, getting it very wet, and letting it dry in approximately the shape that you wanted. I have not had the nerve (or the overly-stretched saddle) to test this advice.
But I do work pretty hard to keep mine dry.
David
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Yeah. All I do is apply Proofhide top & bottom and ride. I leave the bottom coat on but wipe off the top coat. Probably reapply to the top 1 - 2 times per year.
Lon's method is likely good for quickly breaking in a saddle but I just go the long, steady route.
Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Sender: bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:06:17 To: <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {BL} Non sequiturs: FS Ibex coat and a query about the leather
quality of contemporary Brooks saddles
I've been riding since I was 4 and am now 71. Two things that no two cyclists can ever agree on is: 1) what is the best chain lube, and 2) how to break in a Brooks saddle.
I've always closely followed Brook's advice on saddle break in and maintenance. I figure they know best about their own product.
But, your mileage may vary.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Tilley <rltil...@gmail.com>
To: bicyclelifestyle <bicyclelifestyle@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 9:48 am
Subject: Re: {BL} Non sequiturs: FS Ibex coat and a query about the leather quality of contemporary Brooks saddles
Lon Haldeman breaks in his leather saddles by first soaking them in warm water:
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:37 AM, David Chase <dr2ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2012-10-02, at 9:06 AM, dwlucas62...@aol.com wrote:
> Old or new, if you take care of them they will last a long, long time. Don't over lubricate them and try to keep them from getting soaking wet.
Someone I know, don't recall who, claimed that you could reshape a stretched Brooks by relaxing the tension, getting it very wet, and letting it dry in approximately the shape that you wanted. I have not had the nerve (or the overly-stretched saddle) to test this advice.
But I do work pretty hard to keep mine dry.
David
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On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvinl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll get the item for sale out of the way first. It's a loden wool Ibex
> coat similar to the Europa (http://tinyurl.com/8vpkyks). I don't remember
> the model name. It's a 2009 item. I live in the south and have found very
> little need for it. I've worn it maybe a dozen times. It's flawless and
> lovely; it's just too heavy for our climate. I've attached an image. It was
> $240 new. I'll consider any fair offer - $140 range would be perfect. I'll
> ship to the 48.
> Now, on to the real issue. I ride 60 cm 1984 miyata 1000. I'm right at 6
> ft, weigh just under 200lbs and have an average reach. I hold on to Nitto
> mustache bars attached to a quill stem that is elevated slightly higher
> than my saddle height. I sit on a Brooks B17 Special (honey and copper). It's
> the second one I've owned, and while I've enjoyed them both, I have found
> that, rather than breaking in properly - with a couple of nice sits bones
> indentions, they have both begun to sag, as though the leather is
> stretching. I have laced the current one and tightened it slightly and
> succeeded in arresting the sag. My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are
> the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2
> or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather
> throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's
> ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
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I've ridden my 1st Brooks for 7 years, broke it in with Neat's Foot Oil and never tightened it. I've ridden my 2nd Brooks since January of this year and broke it in the same way. They're the same model but I think the new one is thicker, heavier leather. It took a lot longer to break in. I didn't notice any difference in quality. The old one is honey or natural color, the new one black. The black one was staining my pants for a good 6 months.
On Monday, October 1, 2012 9:19:19 PM UTC-6, dr2chase wrote:
> On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvi...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of you > guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the > quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, > could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that > I'm damaging the saddle?
> I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a > leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one > effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come > from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
> You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian cow-hide > differs.
> And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle > ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that > doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a > different saddle.
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:27:28 PM UTC-7, Nick wrote:
> I've ridden my 1st Brooks for 7 years, broke it in with Neat's Foot Oil > and never tightened it. I've ridden my 2nd Brooks since January of this > year and broke it in the same way. They're the same model but I think the > new one is thicker, heavier leather. It took a lot longer to break in. I > didn't notice any difference in quality. The old one is honey or natural > color, the new one black. The black one was staining my pants for a good 6 > months.
> On Monday, October 1, 2012 9:19:19 PM UTC-6, dr2chase wrote:
>> On 2012-09-30, at 3:42 PM, chris love <melvi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are the experiences/thoughts of >> you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2 or 3 decades concerning the >> quality and/or thickness of the leather throughout the years? Secondly, >> could my position, although I think it's ideal(ish), be so improper that >> I'm damaging the saddle?
>> I'm not one of those (continuous) multi-decade Brooks riders (had a >> leather Ideale when I was a kid, it was awesome) but I have heard that one >> effect of mad cow disease in England is that now their leather all come >> from young (tender-skinned) cattle.
>> You might look into a velo-orange saddle; not sure how Australian >> cow-hide differs.
>> And I think that if your position is ideal for you, then if the saddle >> ends up damaged, it needs changing, not your position. I realize that >> doesn't give you specific advice about what to do next, other than try a >> different saddle.
On Sunday, September 30, 2012, chris love wrote:
> I'll get the item for sale out of the way first. It's a loden wool Ibex
> coat similar to the Europa (http://tinyurl.com/8vpkyks). I don't remember
> the model name. It's a 2009 item. I live in the south and have found very
> little need for it. I've worn it maybe a dozen times. It's flawless and
> lovely; it's just too heavy for our climate. I've attached an image. It was
> $240 new. I'll consider any fair offer - $140 range would be perfect. I'll
> ship to the 48.
> Now, on to the real issue. I ride 60 cm 1984 miyata 1000. I'm right at 6
> ft, weigh just under 200lbs and have an average reach. I hold on to Nitto
> mustache bars attached to a quill stem that is elevated slightly higher
> than my saddle height. I sit on a Brooks B17 Special (honey and copper). It's
> the second one I've owned, and while I've enjoyed them both, I have found
> that, rather than breaking in properly - with a couple of nice sits bones
> indentions, they have both begun to sag, as though the leather is
> stretching. I have laced the current one and tightened it slightly and
> succeeded in arresting the sag. My question is 2-fold. Firstly, what are
> the experiences/thoughts of you guys that have been riding a Brooks for 2
> or 3 decades concerning the quality and/or thickness of the leather
> throughout the years? Secondly, could my position, although I think it's
> ideal(ish), be so improper that I'm damaging the saddle?
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