the future of alternative energy onboard??

[Rick Donovan]

a friend sent me this info today. has any one else heard of this or maybe someone actually has experience with this system.

http://usmarineproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=430

I like the idea but they seem a bit pricey right now. very light, compact, and quiet. what more could we want onboard?

Rick Donovan
Biddeford, Maine

[Bill Jarvis]

Rick,

When I was at collage in the late 50"s one of my physics proffessors was Dr
Kato. He had developed a fuel cell back then. Why has it taken so long to
come to market?

Bill

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[Rick Donovan]

On May 26, 2012, at 7:09 PM, Bill Jarvis wrote:

He had developed a fuel cell back then. Why has it taken so long to
come to market?

Bill

obviously the technology is getting a foot hold with fuel prices getting higher these last few years. but for now, I think this is still as way off before it will become main stream.

I had a discussion with the friend that sent me the link for this fuel cell. I like the technology, but the cost per watt/amp is very high. for now, solar, wind and even a big alternator on the main engine is much more cost effective, especially for the boating market. 

think about this, for similar money, you can have a genset that produces much more power to run the ship on. 

what was very attractive to me is the physical size and weight of the fuel cell. that is definitely a step in the right direction for boaters needs, but the output just isn't there yet. my guess is that this too will advance and somewhere in the relatively near future, we will start seeing them more frequently on the water. 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

[Kidd, James]

Because our great Oil Corporations with their great tax subsidies, and greater political influence, don't want it to happen.
Why hasn't the wind industry or solar power taken off?

China has made great leaps with fuel cells....



James A. Kidd

[Cap Munday]

Interesting comments. I sold a mass spectrometer to the US Army R&D guys who are trying to make a fuel cell that would be used by individual soldiers to run all the electronics they carry around. The fuel cell H2 would come from a catalyst device that would convert JP5 (fuel used by tanks and other military vehicles) into H2. Currently the Army uses a dedicated Hummer as a recharge station where every few days the soldiers swap out dead batteries for recharged ones. The fuel cell would eliminate that step.

Note that the fuel cell operates on hydrocarbon fuel. The H2 would come from liquid hydrocarbons, so oil companies have lots to gain from fuel cell development. The drawback of fuel cell use is the relative energy density of HC liquid fuels versus gas. You would need a very large and expensive pressure vessel to hold as much energy as your much less expensive diesel tanks. The EFOY fuel cell runs on methanol that is made with CO, CO2 and H2 per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol). I don't know if HCs are used, but it seems that the H2 would be most easily available from that source.

Re efficiency, you would use electricity from the fuel cell to run an electric motor. This could be really efficient, but I did meet a couple who had a hybred Lagoon cat in Charleston about 4 years ago. We saw them this year in Vero and learned that they have pulled the original electric motors and replaced them with Yanmars. They still have the battery banks, though. I never got the full story about why they made the switch. 

I wonder how much this device costs?

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[Rick Donovan]

On May 30, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Cap Munday wrote:

I wonder how much this device costs?

Cap

thanks for the chemistry class. 

I have been told the unit I originally mentioned has a retail price of $5,990. 

my problem with this current technology was that from what I could find out on the web site, the output is 7.5 amps per hour @12vdc. that is a lot of money for what is basically a trickle charger in my opinion. if the technology allowed 25-30 amps or more for about the same cost, then they would have something to look more seriously at. the other price I found was that a 10 liter jug of methanol was selling for $59. that was calculated to produce 925 amps total. 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

[Cap Munday]

Thanks for the info, Rick. I am gonna stick with Next Generation and when I get a job I'll buy wind and solar.

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[David Mackintosh]

Hi Cap,

The L420 Hybrid was a total disaster................Beneteau/Lagoon using the customer base like Microsoft did as 'beta testers'  :-(   For a long time there were two permanent Lagoon Hybrid expurts based in Nanny Cay to keep the hybrids running.................THEN the props were so big that the cat became a right dog it was slower than a snail..................and you had to motor sail to go anywhere.........just put the throttles in forward to reduce or stop the prop drag or add a little thrust..............then regeneration was fiction never happened  then add two tons of lead acid batteries another easy way to kill a cats performance.

 NOT that you will get any L420 Hybrid owner to admit all or any of this.................sorta screws up their boats resale value big time.

ONCE the electronics are or were sorted then 'perhaps' with using LiFePO4 batteries and a variable pitch prop a hybrid cat 'might' work  BUT for sure i am not convinced of that equally not convinced that a production charter condomaran would be a sensible upgrade from our 461.............though the R&C Moorings 4600  - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5lOZgmouAE - does appeal a lot in many ways.  And after spending three days removing sails rigging and the mast  in 90+ degrees temperatures (back home in Scotland now with Highland Fling laid up for the Hurricane season)  'maybe' the R&C PC 474 - http://www.moorings.com/files/ASSETS/PDFs/yacht_ownership/MP474specsheetFINAL.pdf - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv6ZF1n2ruw- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtAO77SuxA - would be a sensible Caribbean cruiser for us.

regards

David

On 30 May 2012 23:31, Cap Munday <ca...@aol.com> wrote:

BIG SNIP I did meet a couple who had a hybred Lagoon cat in Charleston about 4 years ago. We saw them this year in Vero and learned that they have pulled the original electric motors and replaced them with Yanmars. They still have the battery banks, though. I never got the full story about why they made the switch.