Hmm, It looks like I won't be able to use both S-Video and DVI-D at
the same time, because the converter will cover that port.
--
Felipe Contreras
Changes look good. I think it will be generally better to have the
external connectors confined to just the three sides. I look forward to
playing with the LCD signals, is the LCD supported as the default
xterm/user console for any of the linux distros yet? I'm still digging
through Angstrom and Debian but its not immediately clear.
-Adam
--
Adam Yergovich
Engineer
JK Microsystems
1403 Fifth St. Suite D
Davis, CA 95616
Tel:(530) 297-6073
For rev. d an onwards, have you considered having a 2nd not-expansion board?
That is to say, using another 10pin connector (like the serial port)
to place the
Svideo, Line-out, Mic-In, and other bulky connectors off the main board? Those
pins should be pretty tolerant of the added distance (by virtue of
their usage -
whats another couple inches). that should free up a bunch of space "on the
top end" of the board for signal paths that really need the short distances.
Just a thought off the cuff, so to speak.
Ther are some rumours about rev C having 256MB of RAM, see
http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Revision_C
http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2008-10-01#T19:10:58
Are we getting 256MB RAM in rev C?
Regards,
Frantisek
Hi,
I’m a little bit curious about the beagle board, what type of application did you build with the beagle board?
We know from the datasheet that BB are suitable for developing handheld devices, home entertainment, etc.
But, what kind of application did you guys developed using this board?
Thanks & Best regards !!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
游文洲 / Yohannes Budiono Jinawi / Jonny You
National Central University
Room A305-1, No.300, Zhongda Rd., Zhongli City, Taoyuan County 320, Taiwan (R.O.C.)
Lab www : http://cilab.csie.ncu.edu.tw/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd give you another US$30 per-board for the USB and memory updates, easy.
b.g.
--
Bill Gatliff
bg...@billgatliff.com
> I have $30. Do I hear $35!
$30-50 only for memory.No problem! We (for example) need it!
Robert
Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.
If the DVI-D is right next to the S-Video, then when using this kind
of adapters will block the S-Video:
http://www.hometech.com/video/gc-1212321.jpg
--
Felipe Contreras
Felipe,
They make adapters that have a cable in between the two heads that
would not block
the svideo port. I have one that came with my computer desktop
motherboard actually.
An example: http://www.nulime.com/Startech-Digital-Video-Cable/p75182
Count me in. My experience with the prototype has been nothing but
good.
What about memory speed. My rev C prototype has faster memory than the
rev B, and it's showing.
You've mentioned a possibility of running two versions. Is that still
being considered as an option?
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
You can always use an HDMI-DVI cable, or put an HDMI-female to DVI-male
adaptor on the other end.
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!! I think we coulda had him for $30! :)
How about a 128 OR 256 ram, fully loaded SD card including preconfigured
OS (Angstrom or Ubuntu), power supply, USB, DVI, Serial, and Svideo
cables ready to go 'Beagle for Dummies' or 'Beagle of Non-geeks', or
'Beagle right out of the box'?
Fully loaded price: what ever you set. I'm sure there would be folks
willing to buy it, even if for the novelty of it.
I'd be in for one, cause I've been too busy to play. Would love to buy
one and be able to play right out of the box. Or would that offend the
purists with passion?
Darcy
--
Robert Nelson
http://www.rcn-ee.com/
/Paul
Bill Gatliff wrote:
> Gerald Coley wrote:
>
>> In the mean time, if we could get feedback as to what the added memory
>> is worth, that will help us make the case for moving forward with 256MB
>> as standard on Beagle.
>>
>
> I'd give you another US$30 per-board for the USB and memory updates, easy.
>
>
> b.g.
>
>
>
--
Paul Pignon, CTO
pa...@bps.co.ee
Tel. +372 6803515
Mob. +372 53463942, +46 705508655
Skype: paulspignon
Borthwick-Pignon OÜ
Liivaoja 1-33
10155 Tallinn
Estonia
EU
http://bps.co.ee
At US$175, I won't bother looking at the smaller unit--- I'll just standardize
on the turbo version as my "standard" version when I need actual hardware to
promote OMAP to a client.
As a project-builder, if I'm already "in it" for $149 then I'll spend the extra
money on the assumption that I'll find a way to need the extra resources on the
larger board (uniformly true for 15 years and counting!). I've made a pretty
serious investment already, the additional $30 is like insurance against losing
the whole $149 because the smaller board was too small (assuming the lack of
expansion options isn't a non-starter already).
My reverse-angle argument goes like this. At $150 just to play with
beagleboard, if $30 is a deal-breaker then maybe the buyer needs to reconsider
the whole effort. Beagleboard is unique in some ways, not in others.
Don't bother flaming, you don't have to like or adopt my opinions. :)
Can't say for sure (who can?).
The biggest "scary point" is $100, and I don't see a way to get below that.
I'm mostly familiar with Extension and corporate students, and in that crowd
anything sub-$200 seems palatable.
For undergrads, I guess it's whatever their parents will spend :), and sub-$200
still seems ok--- especially if the curriculum re-uses the board for multiple
classes.
That would be great. Makes perfect sense. Please go for it if you can.
Also maybe in such case it even makes sense to bump the price up to 189
or 199 and add some other low hanging fruit goodies you may have on the
'removed to keep the cost down' list. Rationale is that the price
difference is small and the target group for the turbo version is less
sensitive to price. But if this feel like opening can of worms then
please forget what I just said. I'm perfectly happy with $179 256MB
variant of REV C board :-)
>
> Now, from my perspective, this will be a nightmare trying to figure out
> how many of each to build and figuring out the correct mix. But, if this
> is what we need to do, then we will try to figure something out assuming
> that we could make it work.
Maybe some web based voting on beagleboard.org could help?
Frantisek
----- Original Message -----From: Gerald ColeySent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:11 PMSubject: [beagleboard] Re: REV C UPDATE
Yes, I was thinking about perhaps additonal MMC slot or any other
existing OMAP3 I/O currently missing for cost reasons. I guess $175 or
$199 may not matter much for those going for the turbo version. >200 may
be too much though. If there is nothing easy to add I am happy with just
256MB vesrion of existing board.
The mmc slot would be handy for permanent root file system while still
having sdio or removable card option. True that you can add usb card
reader but this may increase power consumption when comparing to already
present mmc interface and having removable usb device for root
filesystem (for keeping sdio) is not ideal. Still it is not a must. OTOH
RAM is really something you cannot add easily and for desktop-like usage
or advanced multimedia usage where DSP or maybe 3d chip grabs big chunks
of memory for itself 128MB is not enough but 256MB may really improve
situation.
Frantisek
Heh, swap the SD slot for a micro-SD and I'm happier. That's a lot of
real-estate gained, who knows what someone could use the room for? :)
Well, one full SD slot is nice if there is any ready made slot at all.
You can't buy 32GB in microSD now and 16GB is just released with higher
price and lower speed (class 2). Perhaps microSD will always lag in
price/capacity/speed behing full SD.
The alternative is just ready to use SD/MMC pins without any socket.
That would be enough for me for second OMAP MMC interface. There are
pins on expansion socket that can be configured via mux registers as MMC
but I guess these are raw signals I cannot use for soldering sd card
directly. As I understand it there should be some voltage regulator chip
to set corect SD/MMC voltage (in 1.6-1.8V or 2.8-3.4 range) like the
Menelaus one [1] in N8x0. Such voltage regulator chip could fit the
$175-$199 space. Please correct me if I am wrong with this and I can in
fact attach second memory card directly.
Anyway, all this means changes so it is not REV C material. The first
baby step is to have second rev C board with just 256MB RAM in Q1/2009.
I definitely plan to get this one if Digi-Key allows me to buy it :-)
Frantisek
Beagleboard is a development board and its not the final product. I think it's a good idea to provide only the IO pins accessible (for additional devices such as Bluetooth, wifi) for the developers. Otherwise developers will be limited to use their ideas.
Developers can then add additional hardware to the board, either by incorporating a readily available hardware (devices) or by designing their own bit of circuits. Developers should suggest what pins should be accessible and what not (pins which are not important). So pins can be made available on new Rev Boards.
Making the LCD related pins accessible is a good move on Rev C.
In the case of developing their own circuits; This IO pins will helps developers to make their own expansion cards, for example Ethernet card. Developers should publish the expansion card designs to other developers so they can use it without re inventing the wheels. So we will end up having a set of expansion cards (Bluetooth card, wifi card, touch screen controller card etc). This will help us pick and choose what we need for our own project.
In this way developers can make their own working system. If its successful they could make their own single board beagle, incorporating all the expansion-card designs init.
Even though beagle is design to be used on multimedia applications nothing stops us from using it on other applications. So I would even remove Audio, Mic and S-Video connectors and use pin headers instead to save space. This space can be used to make additional omap pins accessible.
Requesting additional memory is good thing as we can not add these by ourselves. only a fraction of Nand is used so NAND memory can be smaller than 128mb. Apart form that I suggest the new board should have more IO pins, and headers for Audio and Video. SD card slot should be left as it can take different cards. As I said once a designs is finalized this slot can be changed to microSD, if that's what needed.
I’ve install angstrom in the BB, it takes about 90MB of RAM to boot up. This means that I have only 30MB free memory. I think there is necessary to raise the RAM size and reduce the NAND for cost-down.
Btw, is there any other version of linux that takes less memory?
From: beagl...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:beagl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bala Gajen
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 5:22 PM
To: beagl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [beagleboard] Re: REV C UPDATE
Beagleboard is a development board and its not the final product. I think it's a good idea to provide only the IO pins accessible (for additional devices such as Bluetooth, wifi) for the developers. Otherwise developers will be limited to use their ideas.
Beagle looses it's attractiveness if the cost crosses the 149$.. for the
idea of creating a "automobile like high end trim" of beagle with
features, it does not make much sense to me.. I gather the input from
this discussion could be: there is a need to have a bare board (IMHO
some other name other than beagle - call it bull dog or Dallas
//Chihuahua// or something) giving just expansion ports to plug in
custom displays, custom cameras, touchscreen, probably a non POP memory
in the form of a module and other stuff this chain has wishlisted....
Regards,
Nishanth Menon
I think there are two main categories of people: those who see it as
a low-priced
embedded board and those who see it as a nice small computer. For the second
category, to which I belong, 256 MB would be extremely nice (I would
even say it's
a requirement).
BTW it's not because you have plenty of RAM that you start doing
bloated software,
it's an education problem, and usually the need for more RAM arises
from software
you need/use rather than the other way around.
Laurent
Oooh. Could we get some solder points for USBH, so that I can attach stuff to
the bus with something other than an ordinary cable?
The other interface missing on the current BeagleBoard is the Camera ISP.
I had hoped to be able to use the BeagleBoard as either just a development
board or a short run production board, but I need the Camera interface, so
I have had to look elsewhere.
David
> Is everyone OK with removing the LCD signals?
> Is S-Video and DVI-D at the same time that critical?
> Gerald
I feel the need to comment: S-Video is not nearly as strict as DVI-D
for cabling
parameters... If it comes down to it, put a 4 pin header where the
s-video is and
folks can direct wire the lum/ground and chrome/ground connections to it, or
make a connection facing straight up, or some other solution. LCD
direct signals
are way more "exciting" than a NTSC cablehead connector.
Having both DVI-D and SVideo is critical, but having a $0.50 connector on board
causing heartache should not be. The rev. C may or may not need a board layout
change to replace the s-video connector with a 4 pin header.
Please leave the planned LCD signals intact. That would be a deal
breaker for just about anything that I do embedded.
Keith
> If we must support this DIV-D adapter, then we will either need to
> live with no S-video at the same time or remove the LCD signals.
>
> Is everyone OK with removing the LCD signals?
No! Removing features from the BB to satisfy a minority of users
peripherals makes no sense. I have two projects in mind which would
benefit greatly from the lower cost of driving an LCD directly.
While making my BB kit purchases, I chose the slightly more expensive
HDMI-->DVI cable over the adaptor for the very reason of not covering
other ports. Plus the extra weight of those adaptors really puts
unnecessary wear and tear of the connectors.
Inexpensive cables from China and elsewhere are cheap and plentiful.
I can't see limiting the design, and therefore the utility of the BB
to placate a few developers with inadequate tools.
> Is S-Video and DVI-D at the same time that critical?
I'm not using S-video, but that's not to say I won't find an
application in the future. I suppose those signals could be moved to
an expanded J3. Eliminating P4 and stacking the audio connectors
might create enough header space to provide the extra signals others
are requesting.
-Glen
Steve
[snip]
> silly IMHO. The DVI is great for debug, but if many of us are going
> to use this for something other than "it works, stick it on the
> shelf", then we need cheap display, and that means svideo or LCD.
DVI or HDMI is essential for digital signage.
--
regards,
Jakob
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It
isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
> There are no plans for HDMI on BeagleBoard. We will only be supporting
> DVI-D.
HDMI video is a subset (restricted modes) of DVI-D. What you probably
mean is that the Beagle will not support HDMI audio or HDCP. DVI-D
allows HDCP but not audio.
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Måns Rullgård <ma...@mansr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Gerald Coley" <ger...@beagleboard.org> writes:
>>
>> > There are no plans for HDMI on BeagleBoard. We will only be supporting
>> > DVI-D.
>>
>> HDMI video is a subset (restricted modes) of DVI-D. What you probably
>> mean is that the Beagle will not support HDMI audio or HDCP. DVI-D
>> allows HDCP but not audio.
>
> Nope. I mean we won't support HDMI. That is our standard message as
> all we support is DVI-D and we use the HDMI connecotr. Yes, DVI-D is
> a subset, but we don't want to give anybody the impression that we
> even support a subset, even though as you say, DVI-D is indeed the
> digital portion of HDMI.
No, that's still not accurate. Perhaps a table will help.
Feature DVI-D HDMI Beagle
--------------------------------------
1024x768 60Hz X * X * optional
1280x720 60Hz X X X
1920x1080 60Hz X X
2560x1600 X
HDCP X X
Audio X
Strictly speaking, DVI-D only specifies the data link. Interpretation
of the data is up to connected devices. The spec includes an EDID
channel over which supported formats can be communicated.
The HDMI spec allows for any timing mode, and includes a list of
required modes as well as specific optional modes. As we've all seen,
many HDMI monitors choose to only support the listed modes. A generic
DVI-D sink (monitor) is not required to support any specific formats.
The DVI specification predates HDCP, so there is no mention of it
there. Numerous devices do, however, support HDCP over DVI-D
connectors.
The Beagle supports any video mode within its clocking capabilities,
and provides a DVI-D compatible signal through an HDMI connector.
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
> SInce we are dreaming, how about this:
> A software kit which would reduce the cost to the experimenter out of
> the box.
> It would be an Angrom or Ubuntu image for the Beagleboard which had
> built-in USB network forwarding and X keyboard/mouse redirection from
> the
[...]
This is the best idea ever! So easy.
> The status of the EHCI port on Rev B is that there isn't an EHCI port on Rev
> B. Rev B does not have the port populated. This is not a SW issue.
Sorry if this was already answered: will Rev. C has this port?
R.
I will love it.
Thanks for the answer.
R.